You about 25?

Because it seems to me that around 2005ish is when college started turning into a losing proposition for a lot of people yet High School administrators and college recruiters continue to push the 4 year degree route as though it's the only acceptable path to meaningful adult status.

Seems like people that have entered college over the last decade are so are getting vastly diminished returns even over what I got when I went in 2000.

but you're really not taking it into account that you're a huge ****ing queer so people have to give you better jobs

That's good, old-fashioned advice, and probably for the best for alot of people, but given interest rates now (and for the last whatever, 7 years) you can easily justify having a 30 year fixed rate loan and just keeping it.

It may well be a negative real interest rate if/when inflation goes back to semi-normal levels.

That's an interesting way to spell Cardinals fan.

We all run 4.2 40's and have 10in dicks. We are an amazing group.

I disagree. A college degree is still the best single thing that will in the long term, improve your quality of life. It's not a guarantee and its not the same as you say pre-2000. But education is why I'm not poor like my Dad and Mom's families.

When my son came to us and says he wants to be an astrophysicist, I say I'll figure out a way to pay for the freight. He will never be rich in that field and the money you pay for that type of degree might not be a good return on investment but that's what you do as parents, one of your main jobs, encourage and help your kids achieve their dreams.

Simple question -- is it worth it to graduate with a degree in, say, political science or english, and $200,000 in debt?

For some, sure. If they can take that and go to Harvard Law, then YES. But otherwise, for the vast majority getting soft liberal arts degrees from nothing-special colleges, there's a real question of whether that is worthwhile.


Astrophysicist? Yeah, he can probably make a few bucks if he gets that degree.

How about anthropology? Sociology? Philosophy? History?

WTF are you going to do with that degree? How do you convert it into bank, so you can pay off you near quarter million dollar, non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, loan?


Any degree that is likely to get you a job with an annual salary of $30,000 probably isn't worth getting unless your parents are paying the freight, or you get scholarships. Then the question is whether your parents are in their right minds, but that's on them.

I have a Bachelor's in non-law track Poli Sci. I can tell you it isn't worth it. Thank God I paid off my schooling as I went or my life would be a shit ton harder. I have to deal with the fact that I'm unable to find a "grown up job", but at least I'm not saddled with $40,000+ in debt like some people I know.

I'd recommend only going to college for some type of technical degree in which you'll learn a skill. Engineering, nursing, etc. If you go for art history, poli sci, etc. then you're going to have a hard time.

Well, that $ bar wasn't set very high for me. When I graduated College in 1989, my Dad had been retired for 3 years. He made $27,500 his last year working a job he had been at for 39 years. Two years into my job, in 1991, I was making $35,000/yr and a Company Car/401K/Bonus/Etc. Not comparable at all.

Hyperbole much? $200K in debt? Sure, there are examples, but this should absolutely not be the norm, and it's easily avoided.

College isn't the right path for some, but the one-to-one relationship between degree and job that you seem to suggest above is pretty narrow thinking.

To answer the OP, I'm actually not sure. In ways I'm "better off", but in others I'm not.

My parents were still married at my age so they had a household with two incomes. With that, they also had two children and were both in the military.

Both of my parents were horrible with money so I'm sure I'm doing better than them. Actually, now that I think about it, I believe they filed bankruptcy while they were married so I'm sure I'm in a better position than they were at 25.

For many, perhaps most, you're right. A 4 year degree is probably the way to go. But like I said, it's not the only way to go and I feel like the educational system stigmatizes anyone that doesn't choose to go that route.

And remember, I just said there are diminishing returns - not no returns.

It's just so hard to wealth-build at all in your 20s if you're lugging around 50K plus in student loan debt and you're dealing with a non-specialized degree that gives you an entry level position of around $30-40K. You can't really even think about home ownership at that point so you're not building equity. Your interest rates are generally in the 5-8% range on student loan debt so it's either a higher monthly payment or a pretty long term. It's just a nasty thing to have hanging around your neck and makes even the march to middle class substantially more difficult.

I'm not saying that college shouldn't be encouraged. I am saying, however, that for many people it shouldn't be the only consideration and to my eyes, that's the only route that guidance counselors and other secondary ed employees will push you towards. And heaven help you if you're a parent that encourages a child that doesn't choose that path.

For your son, Astrophysics may be the proper dream. For others, it could be wanting to open your own shop or even work outdoors. It may be photography. It may be any number of things that your degree doesn't do anything to get you in the door for but perhaps a low-wage apprenticeship would. Those kids are going to be steered away from that and end up in a sort of indentured servitude whereby they have to put in 10 years at a desk in the first job they could get because suddenly the balances were coming due on those subsidized, deferred loans they took out to get through a 4 year program they didn't really want to go into at all.

Opposite for me..bar was set pretty high...OTOH, I've been self employed now for twenty years, and the perks that come with that are pretty sweet, but nowhere near what she accomplished.

When I look back now, it's impressive the drive she had, raising a son by herself in the 60's.

Love my mom and the example of work ethic she put forth, but she's even a better person.

200K seems high, but man, 100K is easy these days. Even simple state schools like Mizzou have an average cost of attendance in excess of $25K/yr now. It was around 12-13K/year when I was looking at schools. The cost of a 4-year degree essentially doubling over the last 10-15 years surely changes the calculus pretty substantially.

I just think the 'pay whatever it costs' mentality has become so prevalent that it's led to schools essentially charging whatever they want knowing that the government will subsidize the tab and stick students with the bill. For many, paying whatever it costs is just a bad financial decision and that number is growing annually, IMO.

If I didn't go on to grad school, I have no idea what the hell I'd have done with my poli-sci degree from a liberal arts school.

Sure, I can write like a champ (or could) because I had 30-40 page papers due seemingly every other week. From that standpoint, practice gave me a pretty high-end ability to articulate thoughts/ideas in writing. I would guess at some point that would have paid off pretty well but it would have just been in some random-ass field.

I'm guessing I'd have gone and worked for State Farm or some other large volume corporate business where the stability of the organization appealed to me. I'd have then gone through the age-old story of trying to get noticed and climb my way up the ranks.

The standard college path contributes strongly to an 'ants-marching' mindset, IMO.