ChiefsPlanet - Football Did y'all catch Squirmin Herman's spot on ESPN about Shady?

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Did y'all catch Squirmin Herman's spot on ESPN about Shady? (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=296702)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 11952453)

Oh, and it should be noted that 14 losses was a franchise record. BUT DON'T HATE HERM. He found 6 guys that are above average. Nobody on the face of the planet could have ever achieved such a feat.

Even Fat Scott managed to accomplish that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 11952445)

Still can't quit Herm huh?

I can go point by point with you.

1.) Lets start with your 10 excellent dudes. They are:

6 Excellent players
Charles, Albert, Bowe, Hali, Flowers, Carr

8 Starter calibre
Babin / Gilberry, Page, Pollard, Dorsey, Wade Smith, Ron Edwards / Boone, Barth (not sure where you're getting that he's been horrible)

Adequate:
Turk, Tank, Battle, Barry Richardson, Studebaker, McGraw

Ended up being good:
De la Puenta

Inherited
Waters, Gonzalez, DJ, Colquitt

Quote:

2.) If he had all that money to spend, why the **** didn't he try to go get somebody in 08 when after 4-12, you have to know there is some heat headed your way. Go get one guy that can help you win. Hell, sell out on getting a decent QB. Get good QB play save your job. Why didn't he? Because he couldn't get one. Why? Horrible.

Well, I'm glad we had a coach who was looking out for the long-term instead of trying to save his job. I honestly don't know why trying to band-aid this team yet again was even an option.

Quote:

3.) ****ing horseshit. He had 21 picks and turned over 49 spots. He brought in a shitton of FA. Granted, he didn't spend any money doing it, but he brought a ****ton of them in. Listen, because this is important....

THIS IS WHERE GOOD TEAMS ARE MADE. Good teams have 2 things - 1. QB. 2. Production from cheap players. Look at all the teams that are consistently good. They get production from cheap players. That's how Seattle won. That's how Pitt won. That's how NE won. It doesn't matter where they come from, but there is a cap. You have to get more productivity per dollar than they other guy. Herm did nothing of this. And this is where teams are truly built. In the cheap contracts. Herm Blew that shit hard.

Fair point here. Though I disagree on how easy that actually is. Of course he's not NE or Pitt or even Dorsey. Most teams aren't that successful in the scrap haul. He failed the QB decision but at least he chose going young over the mediocre veteran

Quote:

3. I'm not advocating shit. I didn't propose any plan here. What I do know is that you don't have to go ****ing 2-14 to turn shit around. The only team that has done it is Indy. Teams that win 2 games aren't good. They win 2 games because there is no talent. Not because they've been built by some ****ing master. Seattle, San Fran, Arizona, New Orleans have all been turned around without taking a mediocre team and making it horrible. Teams that win 2 games 3 years into a rebuild do so because there is not enough talent to field a team. Which is a ****ing joke. We weren't rebuilding, we were ****ing horrible and it was under Herm's watch.

When you look at the actual roster, the talent wasn't terrible. We had 4 rookies starting in the secondary. We had a rookie LG starting at LT. And we had shit at QB. That'll do it to you.

Quote:

Nevermind the biggest ****ing hole in your whole argument. You readily admit that he was a horrid coach. That was his ****ing job, man.

It's not a hole in my argument. The question was if Herm wrecked the team. When Herm left, his bad coaching left too. So all we're left with is his personnel decisions.

Quote:

The general responsibilities of a HC are pretty much:
1. Hire good staff - HORRIBLE
2. Team demeanor - HORRIBLE - His teams quit 2 straight years.
3. Team discipline/execution - HORRIBLE - Stupid penalties, can't run basic plays
4. Work with staff/gametime calls - HORRIBLE Games were a ****ing joke.
5. Work with personnel department - HORRIBLE but somehow you're saying that 6 dudes that are good mean that he didn't wreck the ****ing program. What a ****ing joke.

Well, first, he wasn't a good HC. But he has been to 4 playoff games and won 2. So he's not nearly as bad as people say he is. I didn't like him because I thought he was a career 8-8 coach. But I'm mainly going to speak to point #5, because that's all I care about. He was not "horrible" at personnel. He wasn't elite but again, the roster was in much better shape after he left. As long as we shake the idea that winning meaningless games in 2008 should have even been in our vocabulary.

Herm inherited Vermeil's awful drafts.

He didn't have much of a chance here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 11952033)

He killed this franchise?

Get the **** out of here with that shit.

Unbelievable, the shit people believe around here

9-7
4-12
2-14

Looks pretty dead to me.

Let's assume Dorsey / Reid took over in 2009. Here's what it could have looked like

QB - Sanchez (draft at #3)
RB - Charles / Battle / Cox
OL - Albert / Waters / Wade Smith / De la Puenta / Barry Richardson
WR - Bowe / nobody
TE - Gonzalez

DL - Hali / Dorsey / Edwards / Turk
LB - DJ / Pat Thomas / Demorrio Williams
CB - Carr / Flowers
S - Page / Pollard

We had $57M to spend. Lots of draft picks. Assume we installed a better offense, defense. How far off were we? We direly needed a QB, pass rusher, 1 or 2 LBs, and some receivers. The rest of the roster wasn't nearly as bad as the 2-14 record indicates.

My friends who are fans of other teams laughed when we hired him and I knew they were right. I had no come back at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox (Post 11952487)

9-7
4-12
2-14

Looks pretty dead to me.

That roster Peterson/Vermeil left behind was a sinking ship no matter who was coaching the team. The 2-14 season was accelerated because we chose to clean up the cap and start a ton of rookies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox (Post 11952489)

My friends who are fans of other teams laughed when we hired him and I knew they were right. I had no come back at all.

There are a LOT of coaches who were a lot worse than Herm in NFL history. He gets laughed at because his mistakes were comically bad and memorable. But overall, he was a mediocre coach with a mediocre ceiling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 11952496)

I want nothing to do with mediocre. If you want to defend mediocre, that's on you.

Haley could take 22 guys off the street and win 2 games.

Also, you guys are giving Herm credit for Charles. Not true. Just go to the Falcon's board, they'll tell you that was a Pioli pick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 11952030)

But most importantly, **** that mother****er for taking a proud, professional franchise and turning it into a joke.

ROFL ROFL - like saying the dude who was 8th to blow his load in your daughter's face in 'Bukkake Blitz 37' was the one who stole her 'honor'

This was a good debate.

Good job, guys.

Ha, the same guy that had to be told by his wife that his Chiefs team had backed into the playoffs. Then he laid down for his friend Tony Dungy. I have zero respect for him, zero.

Herm was a pretty bad coach all around, but he did two good things:

1. He took a proverbial bullet for the organization in his last year when he knew his job was on the line and he decided to give all the young guys playing time. He traded wins for experience.

2. He's the only KC head coach to attempt to draft, develop and play his own QB.