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-   -   Cardinals Cardinals vs. Chicago at Wrigley Field Weekend Thread (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=188735)

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 06:14 PM

That glove move is so odd.

Coach 08-10-2008 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 4906351)
That glove move is so odd.

It is odd, but Dempster implemented it to help him keep in sync with his mechanics.

So far, who is to argue aganist that, since not many people thought he would be putting up very respectable numbers.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 06:24 PM

Fukudome, All Star Starter:

OPS+ 102.

Damn Chinamen.

OnTheWarpath15 08-10-2008 06:34 PM

Way to make him work, Carp.

Coach 08-10-2008 06:43 PM

1-0 Cubs on a Mark DeRosa sac fly.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 06:46 PM

That's a hard luck run.

Coach 08-10-2008 06:49 PM

1-2-3 inning for Dempster in the 3rd.

Marcellus 08-10-2008 07:01 PM

Kennedy looked like crap.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 07:03 PM

Damn, that was a nice catch. He's cost us 3 runs so far (w/ the sac and that catch).

Marcellus 08-10-2008 07:04 PM

That was fitting. Edmonds makes another defensive play to save a run.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 4906435)
That was fitting. Edmonds makes another defensive play to save a run.

Yeah, he's killed us in two games this series. But, we freed up 8 million bucks and got a decent prospect in David Freese.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 07:11 PM

Just go up the ladder Carp, he can't hit it.

smittysbar 08-10-2008 07:15 PM

Come on Cards need some runs!

Marcellus 08-10-2008 07:26 PM

Man, we have had runners all over and can't get get a good hit. Hopefully they keep getting chances.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 4906462)
Man, we have had runners all over and can't get get a good hit. Hopefully they keep getting chances.

Reminds me of about 30 games earlier this year.

smittysbar 08-10-2008 07:30 PM

Dempster Had some good pitches that last inning.........SOB

smittysbar 08-10-2008 07:30 PM

Strike out

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 07:31 PM

Carp is back.

Goddamn, he is filthy.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 07:34 PM

Awful call that the ump isn't set to make.

smittysbar 08-10-2008 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 4906473)
Carp is back.

Goddamn, he is filthy.

He is looking a lot better then I thought he would at this point.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 07:37 PM

Can we please DFA Kennedy?

Coach 08-10-2008 07:38 PM

Great game so far.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach (Post 4906485)
Great game so far.

Frustrating game on this side of the aisle. Reminds me of when we face a soft-tossing lefty. We should have about 4 runs, but they just can't put it all together.

You guys have a very good team though.

Coach 08-10-2008 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 4906491)
Frustrating game on this side of the aisle. Reminds me of when we face a soft-tossing lefty. We should have about 4 runs, but they just can't put it all together.

You guys have a very good team though.

Yeah, sometimes the Cubs do have trouble aganist a soft tossing lefty, or a unheard of player/pitcher that the Cubs always get owned.

They do havce a good team, no doubt about it, but there's still some little lingering questions, mainly the health of the team.

Coach 08-10-2008 07:44 PM

2-0 Cubs on a D. Lee single, bringing home Soriano.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 07:48 PM

Son of a bitch.

smittysbar 08-10-2008 07:48 PM

this isn't good

Mama Hip Rockets 08-10-2008 07:54 PM

man that thing that dempster does with his glove pisses me off so much.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 4906482)
Can we please DFA Kennedy?

.

Coach 08-10-2008 07:57 PM

Didn't this Kennedy used to play for the Angels back then, or am I mistaking him of someone else?

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 07:58 PM

Do you guys think that the Cubs fans were cheering his injury, or was that a smattering of Cards fans showing their appreciation?

Some contention over at VEB.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach (Post 4906523)
Didn't this Kennedy used to play for the Angels back then, or am I mistaking him of someone else?

Yeah, we traded him for Edmonds in 2000.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 07:59 PM

Thompson is so awful. :shake:

Coach 08-10-2008 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 4906530)
Yeah, we traded him for Edmonds in 2000.

Thought so.

4-0 Cubs now.

smittysbar 08-10-2008 08:00 PM

this has gotten ugly.......

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 08:02 PM

Awesome.

Thanks for the extra 4 runs, Kennedy.

Coach 08-10-2008 08:04 PM

Heh, Cedeno tagged out at 3rd, but not until after 2 more runs score. Making it 6-0 Cubs.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 08:09 PM

Morgan is an idiot.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 08:09 PM

Wow. Just not getting any breaks tonight.

Coach 08-10-2008 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 4906551)
Morgan is an idiot.

That's nothing new. Dumbf**k needs to be booted off of ESPN a long time ago.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 08:12 PM

Thank god for that.

I wonder if they'll pitch to Pujols with a base open.

Coach 08-10-2008 08:13 PM

St. Louis got a run now. 6-1.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach (Post 4906559)
St. Louis got a run now. 6-1.

This game really should be a lot different.

Game of inches :shrug:

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 08:15 PM

Nice pitch, LaLoosh.

Coach 08-10-2008 08:15 PM

Shark to pitch for the Cubs.

Coach 08-10-2008 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 4906561)
This game really should be a lot different.

Game of inches :shrug:


Yep. How many men did St. Louis left on base?

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 08:16 PM

C'mon Luddy.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach (Post 4906564)
Yep. How many men did St. Louis left on base?

God. At least 8.

Coach 08-10-2008 08:18 PM

After a RBI Double by Pujols, the Shark stricks out Lugwig.

6-2, Cubs, mid 7th.

Coach 08-10-2008 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 4906567)
God. At least 8.

Cut that 8 into half (4), it'd be a tie game, at least.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach (Post 4906569)
Cut that 8 into half (4), it'd be a tie game, at least.

Get this...Kennedy effs up that double play ball and they end up charging 4 runs to Carpenter, 3 earned.


I hate shit like that.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 08:23 PM

The one little nugget from this game:

Carpenter probably just has a strained tricep.

Also, after he got Pujols on Friday he said "Albert Who?" to the media.

Nice fuck you double from the mang.

Coach 08-10-2008 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 4906572)
Get this...Kennedy effs up that double play ball and they end up charging 4 runs to Carpenter, 3 earned.


I hate shit like that.

I saw the error on the double play which those 4 runs scored. Just seems to me that St. Louis interior defense is "average" at best. :shrug:

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach (Post 4906579)
I saw the error on the double play which those 4 runs scored. Just seems to me that St. Louis interior defense is "average" at best. :shrug:

Actually, Izturis is an excellent defensive shortstop, and Kennedy is normally very good, but neither one can hit for rat shit.

The Cards have the best infield d in the league.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 08:28 PM

Coach,

Pu, Molina, and Iz2 are all gold glove winners, and Pujols is the best defensive 1b in baseball (which actually makes a big difference--accounts for a few wins a year). Glaus has been phenomenal this year, and Kennedy's one redeeming potential is his glove work.

I still hate him, though.

Coach 08-10-2008 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 4906584)
Actually, Izturis is an excellent defensive shortstop, and Kennedy is normally very good, but neither one can hit for rat shit.

The Cards have the best infield d in the league.

Ah, well I was thinking of the lines of Aaron Miles and Kennedy combo, but if you were to replace Miles with Izturis, then I'm inclined to agree with you. It's like Izturis has better range than Miles, IMHO.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 08:32 PM

Most chances in the league, 2nd fewest errors, highest FPCT, lemme scrounge up the ZR.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach (Post 4906589)
Ah, well I was thinking of the lines of Aaron Miles and Kennedy combo, but if you were to replace Miles with Izturis, then I'm inclined to agree with you. It's like Izturis has better range than Miles, IMHO.

Miles is a 2B. Tony only puts him at short because he suffers from lapses of Grady Little-itis.

Coach 08-10-2008 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 4906586)
Coach,

Pu, Molina, and Iz2 are all gold glove winners, and Pujols is the best defensive 1b in baseball (which actually makes a big difference--accounts for a few wins a year). Glaus has been phenomenal this year, and Kennedy's one redeeming potential is his glove work.

I still hate him, though.

I wasn't questioning Pujol's defense, as I already know the fact that he is a well-established gold glover, even though the name "gold glove" is questionable (See Palmerio's year in Balitmore where he won it, despite playing majority of his time as a DH) but as far as I'm concerned, Pujols is a GG.

I was just simply pointing out as my previous post, if it was Miles and Izturdus in the interior D, then it's like a downgrade to Izturdus and Kennedy, you kno what I'm saying?

Either way, their defense is "solid" but their bats, such as Itzturdus and Kennedy isn't great.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 08:41 PM

Iz2 is #2 in ZR and #2 in RF, Kennedy is #1 In RF and ZR, Pujols is #2, and Molina is God. It's one of the reasons why we seem to do so well with shit pitchers. They just throw 2-seamers and sinkers and pitch to contact which the IF gobbles up.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach
Either way, their defense is "solid" but their bats, such as Itzturdus and Kennedy isn't great.

I actually think it's excellent (defense) and worst in the league (offense). It's exasperating.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-10-2008 08:43 PM

That'll do it for that abortion.

Congrats Cubs fans.

Nzoner 08-10-2008 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 4906614)
That'll do it for that abortion.

Congrats Cubs fans.

Thank you :thumb:

and I would've joined in earlier but I was at a buddy's house watching

BigRedChief 08-10-2008 09:21 PM

Nice game. Good series. Overall well played by both teams.

Friday night the Cubbies got the hit and we didn't.

Saturday....wellll lets just say it was the Cardinals all the way.

Sunday Our normally sound 2B lets an easy double play ball go between his legs and costs us 4 runs. Difference in the game.

With the way the Cubs have been playing and their 3 starting pitchers home records this year realistically all we could hope for was to take 1 of these at Wrigley.

Good games and congrats on the wins Cub fans.

See ya next time.....

Nzoner 08-10-2008 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 4906659)

Sunday Our normally sound 2B lets an easy double play ball go between his legs and costs us 4 runs. Difference in the game.


Hey now don't forget,the Cubs had some damn good defense :p

Ultra Peanut 08-11-2008 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StcChief (Post 4905557)
my bet is Cards pound the Dumpster tonite. take series and pickup a game. :D

I'll take that bet!

Ultra Peanut 08-11-2008 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 4906365)
Fukudome, All Star Starter:

OPS+ 102.

Damn Chinamen.

April .305/.416/.421
May .293/.388/.404
June .264/.387/.402
---
July .236/.306/.382
August .125/.214/.167

He's been, um, kind of frosty for the past month and a half. Clearly, he's in that "adjust to the adjustments" period. He's walked all of three times in the past 10 games.

Coach 08-11-2008 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut (Post 4907023)
April .305/.416/.421
May .293/.388/.404
June .264/.387/.402
---
July .236/.306/.382
August .125/.214/.167

He's been, um, kind of frosty for the past month and a half. Clearly, he's in that "adjust to the adjustments" period. He's walked all of three times in the past 10 games.


Yeah, he hasn't been hitting too well. I'd be a bit concerned about him if I were a Cub fan.

Now, I hate to add insult to the injury Card fans, but the Cardinals paid Jim Edmonds a little over $12,000 today to hit two home runs against them.

'Hamas' Jenkins 08-11-2008 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach (Post 4908345)
Yeah, he hasn't been hitting too well. I'd be a bit concerned about him if I were a Cub fan.

Now, I hate to add insult to the injury Card fans, but the Cardinals paid Jim Edmonds a little over $12,000 today to hit two home runs against them.

Better than paying him 8 million per to be a clubhouse cancer and a non-producer holding back our young outfield talent.

BigRedChief 08-11-2008 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 4908354)
Better than paying him 8 million per to be a clubhouse cancer and a non-producer holding back our young outfield talent.

Yep, it was time to move on.

BigRedChief 08-11-2008 09:47 PM

Damn, We still have hope.
Pinero pitches a great game,
Mather goes deep,
Ankiel goes 2 for 3
The home town boy pitches a scoreless inning.
Perez comes in and closes, strikes out 2 out of three batters.

The next 3 games at Florida we have Lohse, Looper and Wellenmeyer starting to go for the sweep.:clap:

StcChief 08-11-2008 09:59 PM

Congrats to cubs....took 2 of 3 at home. Hope Carp is short stint with strain. Likely miss his next start to be safe (who knows)

BigRedChief 08-12-2008 07:29 AM

Cardinals starter Chris Carpenter will skip his scheduled between-starts throw today and return to St. Louis to meet with a team doctor about the arm pain that forced him from Sunday's game.

After reporting minimal soreness in his right arm Monday, the righthander said he planned to throw a bullpen session, as scheduled, this afternoon at Dolphin Stadium. Upon further discussion, however, before Carpenter picks up a baseball team officials want Dr. George Paletta to evaluate what has been called a triceps strain.

The decision and the discomfort mean it is doubtful Carpenter will make his next start, set for Friday at Cincinnati.

"We felt, given the history Carpenter has had with George and what's at stake with him being just back from (elbow surgery), this just made the most sense," general manager John Mozeliak said. "Nobody knows Carp better than Carp, but a close second would be Dr. Paletta."
"We want to avoid this becoming a major setback in any way," Mozeliak continued. "Better to be precautionary."

Carpenter threw 66 pitches over 5 1/3 innings against the Chicago Cubs on Sunday night. He felt discomfort in the back of his upper arm as he delivered a fastball to Jim Edmonds. He threw one more pitch, felt the same pain, and then was removed from the game. Carpenter said Monday the pain was localized to the length of his triceps, which runs down the back of the arm to the elbow. But he hesitated to speculate on the cause.

The righthander went through a battery of tests that night at Wrigley Field and again Monday in Miami to gauge a reason for the soreness. Team officials and Carpenter said the tests and exercises performed Sunday and Monday were "encouraging," but not entirely revealing.

"I did a lot of exercises with weights, stretching, all the normal stuff for (the rotator cuff) and it felt fine," Carpenter said. "There are some spots they get me where I can still feel it. ... It's still a little sore."

Carpenter said several times that the pain is not generating from his surgically repaired elbow"My elbow," he insisted, "is fine."

Carpenter will fly to St. Louis this morning and meet with Paletta shortly after his arrival. Paletta's diagnosis will determine a course of action — whether he can return immediately to throwing, whether rest will be prescribed or whether there is something more severe with the arm that could cause an extended absence.

Carpenter returned to the rotation July 30 of this season, and Sunday was his third start since coming off the disabled list. Carpenter called it progress. He said during his 66-pitch outing against the Cubs his "breaking ball got better, like I was hoping, and I could locate fastball. I had more good pitches. It was a step forward."

Until, that is, the fastball to Edmonds.

"We don't want to play a guessing game with what could be wrong," Mozeliak said. "We just want to make sure we're not going backward. He's done so many positive things to get to this point, to get himself back here, that we don't want to risk that. This is a cautionary thing."

BigRedChief 08-12-2008 07:47 AM

Adam Wainwright continued his climb back toward the majors and his planned late-inning role in the Cardinals' bullpen with an increase in pitches and an improvement in performance Monday.
He threw 48 pitches in Memphis in his three innings for the Cardinals' Class AAA affiliate. The righthander allowed four hits, two runs (both earned) and struck out two and was not involved in the decision in a 3-2 loss to New Orleans.

At pitching coach Dave Duncan's urging, the Cardinals upped Wainwright's pitch count from the planned 25. Duncan said it was "to give him a better chance to work on all of his pitches." In his first rehab start Friday, Wainwright had to throw his curveball at odd counts just to get a few in before he ran out of pitches on his 25 limit.

Of his pitches Monday, 29 were strikes. Seven of the nine outs he collected were groundouts, and he did not have a fly out.

The Cardinals have Wainwright, who made 13 starts before a finger injury put him on the disabled list, on a rehab assignment tailored for a reliever. He is scheduled to throw again Thursday for Memphis, at which time the Cardinals will consider activating him.

BigRedChief 08-13-2008 06:40 AM

Chris Carpenter will miss his scheduled start Friday for the St. Louis Cardinals after an MRI exam showed a muscle strain in the back of his pitching shoulder.

<!-- INLINE HEADSHOT (BEGIN) -->
Carpenter was examined Tuesday in St. Louis and will rejoin his teammates in Florida, where he will receive treatment from the team's medical staff.

The 2005 NL Cy Young Award winner, Carpenter was injured in the sixth inning of Sunday's 6-2 loss at the Chicago Cubs. He was making his third start since Opening Day last year. The right-hander underwent elbow ligament replacement surgery in July 2007.

St. Louis began exploring its options even before Carpenter's test results were in.

Cardinals pitching coach Dave Duncan said Carpenter's replacement would come out of the bullpen, according to multiple media reports. Duncan mentioned Brad Thompson and Jaime Garcia as options. Both pitchers have starting experience and neither pitched in Tuesday's 4-3 loss to the Florida Marlins.

Thompson has made 19 appearances this season, three of which were starts, and is 4-2 with a 4.34 ERA. Garcia, meanwhile, has made six appearance with one start. He is 1-1 with a 3.27 ERA.

BigRedChief 08-14-2008 05:58 AM

Nice win last night. 2 out of 3 on the road going for 3 out of 4 today.

Perez is looking much better with his slider. Another save.

Maybe we can move Wainright into the starting role?

BigRedChief 08-14-2008 06:35 AM

Had enough bad news about the Redbirds lately? Then you may not want to read on...

ESPN's Peter Gammons reports that Cardinals first baseman Albert Pujols' troublesome elbow is bothering him again... but the St. Louis slugger is hopeful that he can make it until the end of the season.

The ultimate disaster scenario for the Birds is that they would stay on the periphery of the race throughout the season, and though they had no real chance to win, Pujols would be unwilling to shut things down and get his wounded wing fixed.

The possibility exists that Pujols could go on indefinitely with the problem. But one has to start to wonder when he's a .332 hitter who averages more than 30 homers and 100 RBIs a year with a bad arm, what would Pujols have done over the last five years if he was completely healthy.
People have incredibly high expectations of Albert because of the way he hit in the clutch early in his career. But I can't help but wonder when he pops the ball up with men on base or whiffs if it's the limitations the bad elbow puts on his swing.

Then again, like they always say, even the best baseball players fail nearly 70 percent of the time. It is the arm that's the problem, or do people just expect so much of one man that this season's pace to hit .350 with 30 home runs can be considered a bad season?

BigRedChief 08-14-2008 06:38 AM

Francisco Samuel not only has an eye-popping fastball he has some eye-popping numbers to his credit for the Palm Beach Cardinals of the High Class A Florida State League.

The 21-year-old hurler, who compliments his fastball with a nasty slider and who is working on a curve, has notched 49 innings since being called up from Quad Cities of the Midwest League. In that time he has racked up 76 strikeouts.

To put things in perspective, 49 innings means 147 total outs were recorded. So Samuel has struck out more than half of the batters who he has retired. He leads his team in strikeouts --- as a reliever. The guy with the second highest K total at Palm Beach is starter Brad Furnish, who has notched 74 -- in 115 innings pitched.

The bad news is that Samuel has walked 39 batters in that stretch, which is too many, although not an obscene number. But, obviously, control is his biggest concern at this point.

Samuel has a 3.10 ERA and a .193 batting average against.
Down in Class A Quad Cities, Pete Parise took over for Samuel and has been getting outs with pinpoint control. In 48 2/3 innings pitched he has allowed 42 hits while striking out 50. He has walked only seven batters all season.

In Class AA Springfield, Fernando Salas has 23 saves in less spectacular fashion. He's given up 51 hits in 64 2/3 innings pitched and allows 1.02 walks and hits per inning pitched.

In AAA Memphis, Adam Wainwright was supposedly being groomed as the Cardinals makeshift closer for the rest of the season. But, after failing to make it through the first inning in his first rehab appearance, he pitched three innings Monday night. Now the word is that he will get his next game action in Springfield where he is to throw about 70 pitches.
So is he going to pitch the last four innings of every game and cut out the middle relief men? I wish.

But it looks like the Cardinals brass has reconsidered yet again and is now conditioning Wainwright to be a starter again.

I guess that means they're happy with Chris Perez's work.

Pasta Little Brioni 08-14-2008 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 4913711)
Had enough bad news about the Redbirds lately? Then you may not want to read on...

ESPN's Peter Gammons reports that Cardinals first baseman Albert Pujols' troublesome elbow is bothering him again... but the St. Louis slugger is hopeful that he can make it until the end of the season.

The ultimate disaster scenario for the Birds is that they would stay on the periphery of the race throughout the season, and though they had no real chance to win, Pujols would be unwilling to shut things down and get his wounded wing fixed.

The possibility exists that Pujols could go on indefinitely with the problem. But one has to start to wonder when he's a .332 hitter who averages more than 30 homers and 100 RBIs a year with a bad arm, what would Pujols have done over the last five years if he was completely healthy.
People have incredibly high expectations of Albert because of the way he hit in the clutch early in his career. But I can't help but wonder when he pops the ball up with men on base or whiffs if it's the limitations the bad elbow puts on his swing.

Then again, like they always say, even the best baseball players fail nearly 70 percent of the time. It is the arm that's the problem, or do people just expect so much of one man that this season's pace to hit .350 with 30 home runs can be considered a bad season?

Eventually that elbow is going to need a fixin. I know there was talk before the season of whether or not he'd make it through the whole season, so it's not surprising.

BigRedChief 08-14-2008 10:14 AM

A week ago, the Colorado Rockies acquired Livan Hernandez from the Twins. This week, among other moves, Arizona picked up Adam Dunn from Cincinnati, and Boston addressed its rotation by nabbing Paul Byrd from Cleveland.

So much for that so-called July 31 trade deadline.
It is not as easy to make deals in August. Teams must put players on waivers but deals can be made, and not just little fill-in-the-blank deals. Rather, it's the ones that have impact, both in the short-term and long-term.
<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = FSTL /><FSTL:EDGEINCLUDE source="/name/public/Topstories"></FSTL:EDGEINCLUDE>
It is a time of year where the have-nots look for ways to uncover hope for the future at the expense of a team that is focused on winning in the present.

Contenders, however, are showing less reluctance to give up prospects for deals now, using the logic that if they pick up a quality potential free agent to help down the stretch, they can restock the system in the off-season with the two draft picks they will receive in free-agent compensation.

Arizona officials are quick to point out that with the addition of Dunn, they now are in position to have nine selections in the first three rounds of next June's draft — their original three plus two each for expected Type A free agents Dunn, second baseman Orlando Hudson and closer Brandon Lyon.

Of course the purpose behind adding a Dunn or any other veteran in August is about winning now, not building up the farm system.
Sometimes it works. Most times it doesn't.

Were these 10 deals worth it?

Detroit acquired RHP Doyle Alexander in August 1987, and he went 9-0 with a 1.53 ERA in 11 starts, helping the Tigers win the AL East by two games over Toronto. The Tigers were then knocked off by Minnesota in the ALCS. Alexander was 20-29 with Detroit the next two years and retired.
The price: Atlanta received pitching prospect John Smoltz in return. Smoltz is 210-147 with 154 saves, eight All-Star selections and the 1996 NL Cy Young award.

Boston acquired RHP Larry Andersen on Aug. 30, 1990, and he compiled a 1.23 ERA in 15 appearances for the Red Sox, who won the AL East by two games over Toronto. The Red Sox were swept by Oakland in the ALCS. Andersen left after the season as a free agent.
The price: Houston received 3B prospect Jeff Bagwell, a fourth-round draft choice in 1989 and a .321 minor league hitter who hit only six home runs in 731 at-bats. With the Astros? He was moved to first base, and won the 1991 NL Rookie of the Year and 1994 NL MVP, compiled a .297 average and hit 449 home runs.

Toronto acquired RHP David Cone in 1992, and he was 4-3 with a 2.55 ERA. The Blue Jays did win the first of back-to-back world championships and Cone made four starts. Cone left after the season as a free agent.
The price: The Mets acquired OF Ryan Thompson and 3B Jeff Kent. Thompson appeared in 416 big-league games with six teams spread over nine years. Kent was converted to a second baseman and is still playing. A five-time All-Star and 2000 NL MVP, he has hit 376 career home runs, the most ever for a second baseman.

San Diego acquired LHP Randy Myers in 1998. Myers appeared in only 15 games, working 14 1/3 innings and allowing 10 earned runs. He never pitched again.

The price: The Blue Jays acquired minor-league RHP Brian Loyd, who never got to the big leagues, More important, the team unloaded $16.6 million in salary to Myers, who had two full seasons remaining on his contract. The Padres put in the claim because they said they wanted to block him from another contender, but the only team that had a better record was Atlanta.
San Francisco acquired RHP Steve Bedrosian and INF Rick Parker in 1989. Bedrosian appeared in 40 games and earned 17 saves for the NL West champion Giants, who beat the Cubs in the NLCS before being swept by Oakland in the World Series. Bedrosian had 17 more saves, but a 4.20 ERA for the Giants in 1990 and was traded after the season to Minnesota for RHP John Ard.

The price: Philadelphia received LHPs Terry Mulholland and Dennis Cook, and 3B Charlie Hayes. Mulholland pitched 17 more years in the big leagues, including an All-Star season in 1993. Cook extended his career 13
additional years. Hayes played 12 more seasons in the big leagues.
Oakland acquired OF Ruben Sierra and RHPs Bobby Witt and Jeff Russell in 1992. The three were spare parts for an A's team that lost in the ALCS to Toronto. Witt did fill a rotation spot the next two years for the A's. Sierra was traded after 1995 to the Yankees for Danny Tartabull. Russell left after 1992 as a free agent.

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The price: Texas acquired OF Jose Canseco, who was traded in December of 1994 to Boston for OFs Otis Nixon and Luis Ortiz. Canseco spent nine more full seasons in the big leagues, including one back with Oakland in 1997. In one of them -- the 1998 season in Toronto -- he hit 46 home runs.
Philadelphia acquired LHP Jamie Moyer in 2006. Moyer was 5-2 in eight starts even though the Phillies finished 12 games out in the NL East, but he is still going strong at the age of 45.

The price: Seattle received minor league RHPs Andrew Barb and Andy Baldwin. Baldwin is at Triple-A Tacoma this season.
Pittsburgh acquired LHP Zane Smith in 1990. Smith was 6-2 with a 1.30 ERA in 11 games — 10 starts — for the Pirates, who won the NL East, but lost to Atlanta in the NLCS. Smith did pitch four more years with the Pirates, departing as a free agent after 1994.

The price: Montreal received LHP Scott Ruskin, 3B Willie Greene, and OF Moises Alou. Alou is still playing and has hit 337 home runs in 1,940 games since leaving the Pirates. Ruskin and Greene spent time in the big leagues but never established themselves. They were, however, dealt by Montreal, along with OF David Martinez, to Cincinnati for RHPs John Wetteland and Bill Risley in December 1991.

Oakland acquired LHP Rick Honeycutt in 1987. Honeycutt was only 1-4 in seven games — four of them starts — and the A's finished in third place in the AL West in 1987. He averaged 55 games a year out of the bullpen the next six years for the A's, appearing in the postseason in four of those years.

The price: Los Angeles received RHP Tim Belcher, who became a mainstay in the Dodger rotation the next four years and spent 13-plus seasons in the big leagues, going 146-140.
Cleveland acquired 3B Kevin Seitzer in 1996. Seitzer hit .386 in 22 games for the Indians, who won the AL Central by 12½ games but were eliminated by AL wild-card Baltimore in the division series. Seitzer appeared in 64 games with the Indians in 1997 and was granted free agency after the season.

The price: Milwaukee received OF Jeromy Burnitz, who went on to play the next four years in Milwaukee and was traded by the Brewers, along with Mark Sweeney, Jeff D'Amico and Lou Collier, in a three-team deal after the 2001 season which brought INF Lenny Harris, LHP Glendon Rusch and OF Alex Ochoa to the Brewers. Burnitz hit 283 home runs and played in 1,483 games after leaving Cleveland.


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