Originally Posted by Brock (Post 5091016)

That's nonsense. Bradford is going to be good in the NFL, quit acting like you're any better judge of QBs than anyone else.

Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan (Post 5132886)

I agree, but I think I will take Colt McCoy

Originally Posted by KCFalcon59 (Post 5132915)

What will it take to move to 1 if we end up with the 2nd, 3rd or 4th pick in the draft?

Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan (Post 5132886)

I agree, but I think I will take Colt McCoy

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP (Post 5132967)

Too much.

Originally Posted by KCFalcon59 (Post 5132915)

What will it take to move to 1 if we end up with the 2nd, 3rd or 4th pick in the draft?

Originally Posted by KCFalcon59 (Post 5132915)

What will it take to move to 1 if we end up with the 2nd, 3rd or 4th pick in the draft?

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 5091043)

We should also seriously consider Pat White, assuming Daniel is already off the board at the #2 overall pick. Running the option full time...championship.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5132979)

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php

Our first two picks at two, our first three at three, and the next two first rounders, a second, and probably a fourth if we pick 4.

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 5132887)

You are aware that he's only about 200lbs, plays in a spread offense, plays for Texas, and has a history of getting injured correct?

Originally Posted by KCFalcon59 (Post 5132977)

:( It would suck to win one game and not get the first pick.

Originally Posted by Coach (Post 5133490)

Too bad the NFL trade deadline has already expired.

If the trade deadline was in week 8, hypothecially speaking, would the Chiefs try to request for J.P. Losman?

Again, this is just a discussion.

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP (Post 5133498)

First, yuck. Second, why would the Bills deal Losman? Edwards has already been knocked out of a game. When you're making a playoff run you want a competent backup QB.

Originally Posted by Ozzy (Post 1249923)

Let me put it too you this way, before I started discussing prospects on internet message boards, I liked Sam Bradford. I still do, but at least for me personally I almost start to hate the guy because people are talking him up to be this John Elway, Troy Aikman type, someone who will completely save their franchise. That is totally crap to me, you put Bradford on the Chiefs or Lions you are telling me they will greatly improve their team? Seriously?

The kid is good but I am way more impressed with the talent around him, than him alone. I a WAY more impressed with the offensive line talent blocking for him, I am more impressed with the tight ends on that team as well. I am even more impressed with the running backs that bound the football.

It is just the kid has everything, and I mean EVERYONE at his finger tips. He pretty much has the perfect offense, great players at all positions.

What I hate again is the hype, the franchise saving hype the kid gets. And I say again, you put any other QB in that offense, they will look damn good as well. Put him on a team with a crappy offensive line, no running game and no receivers to throw the ball too.


And then people say Sanchez has talent on USC. That is true but no way is his offensive line as ridiculously talented as Bradford has. On top of that, Sanchez makes professional throws down the field, he has a better arm than Bradford and plays in a more pro style of offense. Sure Sanchez makes those throws because they allow them too, or Bradford does not make those big throws because he cannot do it.

ALSO, Sanchez has greatly improved over last season. Last year he showed signs, this year he is showing much improved ability which makes one believe he can become better and better as a player and keep improving. Bradford, really he has no where to go but down. What he is going to complete 70% of his passes in the NFL? Please....

If Bradford had a bigger better arm, then yes maybe he is worth the hype. But simply look at his arm strength, I am not taking accuracy I am talking strength, I question is greatly.


So dumb down this NFL franchise hype around him and he will not get so much hate. In my book though he gets way to much love to be honest.

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 5151988)

Today Stafford lit up LSU at Baton Rouge, just tore them a new asshole because his Receivers were catching the ball finally

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5151992)

And it wasn't a slip screen with 50 yards of YAC, either.

That pass he threw to Green for the TD on the blitz was just flat badass.

We have to lose out and get a shot at this kid. But with Palmer out, the Bengals are bad enough to lose to us, and the Lions could very well go winless or have only 1 W.

Originally Posted by ILChief (Post 5152100)

The Bengals picking ahead of us doesn't worry me too much. I dont think they'd take a QB number 1. Detroit is our big worry. They desperately need a QB. We can only hope they're gun shy after the Harrington ordeal and afraid to take a QB that high.

Stafford is the real deal. I hope: A- He comes out and B- We can get him. If we get him in the first, a MLB, a WR, and a DE (unless our young D-Line comes through, I still have some hope) in the draft and plug the O-Line with FA's we can be decent.

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 5151988)

Today Stafford lit up LSU at Baton Rouge, just tore them a new asshole because his Receivers were catching the ball finally

Originally Posted by the Talking Can (Post 5152134)

lots of things won't show up in the stats too...he was audible-ing out of the blitz regularly, with great success....and he operates under center most of the snaps


and the play...where he's rolling back and to the right, with a defender hanging on, and he fires a pass about 15-20 yards to a wr tightly covered on the sideline...it was a preposterously good play that few players could make...

that sealed the deal for me

he still makes some bad decisions, and is rough in his mechanics, but he understands the game, doesn't wilt under pressure, and has a top %1 arm...

Originally Posted by suds79 (Post 5152172)

I've been thinking about this recently mainly because I think there's a good chance Stafford goes #1 to say Detroit.

But if you didn't know how the QBs are ranked by all the experts, and you just saw them play, wouldn't you think Josh Freeman is arguably at the top of the list?

I know it sounds crazy but this guy just impresses me more & more.

I think everybody assumes that Bradford is at least the 2nd best QB in this class but I just don't know. He's so hard to evaluate considering how WIDE open his WRs get. (see his swing pass for a TD yesterday)

But in measureables Freeman seems to be the front-runner.

Size - Freeman 6'6 250
Accuracy - ESPN shows he's at 61.3% for this year. (on a bad K-state team)
Arm - Probably 2nd only to Stafford. (and couldn't be by much... Did you see that roll out bomb he threw yesterday? Wow.)

I don't know where he'll go in the draft but I think he deserves strong consideration.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5152204)

I really, really question his decision making. Especially after that Louisville game earlier this year.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5152204)

I really, really question his decision making. Especially after that Louisville game earlier this year.

Originally Posted by Frankie (Post 5152272)

drafted Freeman in, say, the 3rd round.

Originally Posted by Coach (Post 5152283)

As a Big XII guy, he has all the tools, that's a no doubter. And I agree on the decision making, but at the same time, he has shown some improvement in that area if you were to compare his So to his Jr years.

Of course, having a head coach of Ron Price doesn't help him, combined with the fact that K-State has no running game at all, and that spells more trouble for Freeman.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5152321)

This is where you'll find a bit of a divergence between Mecca and I in draft theory.

He's more of a workouts guy, and while I emphasize those numbers, things like decision making for a quarterback are critical. It's what separates a guy like Jamarcus Russell from, say...Phillip Rivers.

Russell is a freak, but there is a balancing act on a QB. If a guy has a (to borrow a baseball term) plus arm, that's fine, anything more is a bonus. If he shows an ability to read a defense, go through his progressions, and fit a ball into a tight spot, that is the stuff that is really key.

You have to have both though. Your arm has to be strong enough to put it in the window, but you don't need a Howitzer.

The fact that Stafford has a cannon isn't the selling point. It's just an ancillary benefit.

He's big enough to take a beating. He makes good decisions. He has to throw it into tight windows. He's shown an ability to read a defense and audible out into advantageous plays. And when you have to make next level throws to really squeeze one in a tight spot, he can do it.

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 5152297)

ROFL

Originally Posted by Mr. Arrowhead (Post 5152189)

I would rank Freeman over bradford

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy (Post 5152357)

I really don't think the Lions take a QB either.

I think they really like Orlovski.

Thankfully, the Lions need a big time DE. They also could use an offensive lineman.

We must get Stafford.

Originally Posted by the Talking Can (Post 5152353)

i imagine scouts will based on his measurables

Originally Posted by GonzoRox88 (Post 5152360)

They still have Drew Stanton back there.

I'd hope they'd give him a shot, he was a good college QB.

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy (Post 5152357)

I really don't think the Lions take a QB either.

I think they really like Orlovski.

Thankfully, the Lions need a big time DE. They also could use an offensive lineman.

We must get Stafford.

Originally Posted by the Talking Can (Post 5152353)

i imagine scouts will based on his measurables

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5152361)

He's a guy that would do best if he were put in a situation where he sat for at least 2 years. He could end up being a damn good player, but with guys who have questionable decision making skills, they have a much higher bust rate.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5152321)

This is where you'll find a bit of a divergence between Mecca and I in draft theory.

He's more of a workouts guy, and while I emphasize those numbers, things like decision making for a quarterback are critical. It's what separates a guy like Jamarcus Russell from, say...Phillip Rivers.

Russell is a freak, but there is a balancing act on a QB. If a guy has a (to borrow a baseball term) plus arm, that's fine, anything more is a bonus. If he shows an ability to read a defense, go through his progressions, and fit a ball into a tight spot, that is the stuff that is really key.

You have to have both though. Your arm has to be strong enough to put it in the window, but you don't need a Howitzer.

The fact that Stafford has a cannon isn't the selling point. It's just an ancillary benefit.

He's big enough to take a beating. He makes good decisions. He has to throw it into tight windows. He's shown an ability to read a defense and audible out into advantageous plays. And when you have to make next level throws to really squeeze one in a tight spot, he can do it.

Originally Posted by eazyb81 (Post 5154890)

So am I the only one giving consideration to Josh Freeman? I have barely heard a peep about him on this board, which is odd considering he's a local kid.

I realize most blow him off because he doesn't put up the video game numbers like other Big 12 QBs do, but he's right there with Bradford as the best QB prospect in the league. He has prototype size, a bazooka for an arm, plays in a pro-style offense and has done so since his freshman year. This kid is eerily similar to Jamarcus Russell, and I see some Joe Flacco in him as well.

Are all the KU and MU fans on here dismissing him out of pure bias? I could see him tearing up the combine, and he could be a nice consolation if we miss out on Stafford.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5154946)

He really really should not come out this year. I just don't think his decision making is good enough and he'll slide down quite a bit.

If he stays in school, he's got a good chance of being top 15 next year, even if Sanchez and Bradford declare.

Originally Posted by eazyb81 (Post 5154983)

Eh, I'm not sure how much one extra year of getting pounded at K-State is going to help his development. I think hooking up with a pro team and a good QB coach would do more for him. To me, the big issue with him is a lack of talent around him, and that won't change next year.

When you look at his size, arm, and athleticism, he's right there with Stafford, if not ahead of him.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5155025)

Dude, the bust rate of juniors who declare who don't have the greatest history of decision making is catastrophically high.

Alex Smith, Vince Young, Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, Tim Couch, and Rex Grossman are just a few off the top of my head.

Originally Posted by eazyb81 (Post 5155036)

So why should Stafford declare? For that matter, why should Sanchez or Bradford?

I know what others have done, but that has no bearing on what Freeman will do. You can't teach his tools, and maybe he's ready to start his career. Anyways, my point is to argue about whether he should or should not come out; my point is to bring his name into the discussion of QBs we should look at/dream on.

Originally Posted by mylittlepony (Post 5155044)

Some people might argue that Matt Stafford doesnt have the greatest decision making ability.

Originally Posted by mylittlepony (Post 5155044)

Some people might argue that Matt Stafford doesnt have the greatest decision making ability.

Originally Posted by sportsman1 (Post 5155057)

Im way to lazy to read the whole thread but... I am all for Graham Harrell. The guy is talented and a good decision maker.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5155053)

And those people probably just look at his lines. Look at what he did to LSU yesterday.

Recognized the blitz, audibled out, and put the ball in a tight spot.

You're gonna throw more picks when your receivers aren't Sam Bradford-level open, but Freeman has made some really boneheaded mistakes. The Louisville game comes to mind.

Originally Posted by sportsman1 (Post 5155057)

Im way to lazy to read the whole thread but... I am all for Graham Harrell. The guy is talented and a good decision maker.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5155047)

Well, Sanchez and Stafford should declare because they've shown good decision making and have elevated the play of their teammates (this is far more on Stafford).

Originally Posted by mylittlepony (Post 5155088)

Oh dont get me wrong. He looked great against LSU. But he does throw into double coverage. He did it a couple of times against Bama and again yesterday against LSU. At the next level those balls gets picked.

Originally Posted by eazyb81 (Post 5155102)

I'd love to see your argument that proves how Stafford has shown such amazing decision making, while Freeman has not.

Both players have similar completion %, YPA, TD/INT ratios, etc. Both players play in pro-style offenses. One guy has awful talent around him, the other has above-average surrounding talent. Using stats for this argument is not ideal, but that stats certainly don't hurt Freeman in this case.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5155124)

I'm not talking about stats, I'm talking about decision making. Look at the game that Freeman played against Louisville, or the one he played against Tech.

Originally Posted by eazyb81 (Post 5155136)

So your argument is supported purely by opinion. Gotcha.

Did you happen to see Stafford against Vandy or UT? Very spotty.



I'm in SEC country, I know all about the situation at UGA. He has young wideouts, but they were all highly-touted players coming in. AJ Green and Massaquoi are hardly shit, and far surpass anything Freeman has to work with. Plus Georgia has a defense that can keep them in games, and prevents Stafford from having to go batshit crazy in the passing game to try to keep his team in it.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5155152)

Of course my argument is supported by opinion All Draft concepts are supported by opinion.

There is a skill to evaluating prospects, but nothing, nothing that could be quantified as anything even remotely approaching fact.

Originally Posted by eazyb81 (Post 5155178)

Agree, so why the hell are you even arguing that Freeman should be in the conversation? It's ridiculous, and just makes you look like you have nothing to do but argue for the sake of arguing. Freeman is on every NFL Draft analyst's radar, and the regular names have talked about him quite a bit (Kiper, McShay, Scott Wright, etc).

On pure physical tools, he's up there with Jamarcus Russell, who was a freak and ended up as the #1 overall pick, even though he had the "inconsistent" label throughout his college career. He hasn't done great yet, but I still think he'll end up being a very good QB in this league if he gets more protection. But obviously, this shows that tools and athleticism win out in the eyes of scouts.

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 5152297)

ROFL

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5152365)

Stanton has good combine #s, but he hasn't been able to stay healthy so far. I really hope they give him a chance to play, because if he does, they'll take an LT #1.

Originally Posted by Frankie (Post 5155523)

That would be Oher. :(

Originally Posted by eazyb81 (Post 5154890)

So am I the only one giving consideration to Josh Freeman?

Originally Posted by eazyb81 (Post 5154890)

This kid is eerily similar to Jamarcus Russell, and I see some Joe Flacco in him as well.

Originally Posted by Frankie (Post 5155537)

Are you deliberately ignoring my posts? :grr:


I really think given good coaching he is potentially better than Russell.

Originally Posted by mylittlepony (Post 5155044)

Some people might argue that Matt Stafford doesnt have the greatest decision making ability.

Originally Posted by eazyb81 (Post 5155689)

This is a 37 page thread, posts go unnoticed every now and then, especially when Bradford vs. Stafford bitchfests take up half of it.

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 5160117)

Why do people like Colt McCoy I can literally list off 5 issues that should draw red flags.

Stafford is the only one so we need to keep losing.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5155109)

He's by no means Peyton Manning at this point, but there is a demonstrable difference in his development opposed to Josh Freeman.

Freeman reminds me of Jason Campbell. Stafford reminds me of Jay Cutler.

Originally Posted by BWillie007 (Post 5160158)

**** me. I'll take either one. Better than Damon Huard.