And then we'll do the hokie pokie, aaaaand turn ourselves around...

It's not a terrible example. It is a perfect example.

The Chargers drafted Eli Manning knowing full well he had zero desire to play or sign for that team weeks before the draft. He was drafted by the Chargers only because they were unable to work out a deal with the Giants for regular draft compensation. Why? Because the Chargers were asking for reeruned draft chart compensation and the Giants thought those demands were absolutely outrageous (keep in mind... that Giants thought those demands were outrageous in spite of the fact that Eli Manning was a consensus #1 pick and as close to a surefire franchise QB as we've seen in 5-10 years).

So if the trade chart says that the trade to move up two spots for a close-to-surefire franchise QB is 200 points off value, what does that say about #1 picks who walk in with a lot less hype? I don't understand why people continue to rally around a draft chart that says that the Chargers got ripped off big time for the Eli Manning trade. The trade only happened because the Chargers were forced to move away from the draft chart because it was dealt with as a free agent swap, not a draft swap. I don't understand the logic--free agent trades are made by negotiating deals between two teams, and those trade values change every single year. Draft trades are made by a standard chart. Why?

We could even name it, like a chess move.

The Chiefs make the Fetal Draft move.

With carrots up our asses!:doh!:

Free agent trades are a great example to use. Dipshit.

Because they knew Manning wasn't going to play for SD under any circumstances, thus effectively eliminating any leverage to negotiate.

Again, Manning essentially orchestrated the entire process, not the "archaic" nature of the draft chart.

LMAO

Ok I went back through this thread and I will say this, anyone and I mean anyone who thinks much of what a QB should be judged on happens at the combine they are out of their mind.

Drew Henson looked like a god throwing in his shorts, guys like JaMarcus Russell look great in those situations.

The combine means in my view very little to QB's as long as they show they don't have girly arms.

To me the only things I want to see at the combine are WR's and DB's and the intelligence tests.

You're not listening. I don't support a trade-down if the Chiefs truly believe that Sanchez should get a top 5 grade. But there seems to be at least some doubt about whether he deserves it. And the question is, if the Chiefs are concerned about Sanchez, then what's your next move?

Since people agree on a standard draft procedure that involves a standard draft chart, let me use standard terminology. Drafting a player at #3 that you graded over 5 spots lower is what they call a "reach."

But...but...it's the only chance True Fans get to talk a lot of ignorant and useless smack because Sanchez didn't win the "Combine Bow"l!!!

Anyone that says that should then be forced to say "I would have drafted Jamarcus Russell #1" because if you're saying the combine is very important then that's where you're at.

The fact that the Giants traded for Manning and gave up significant draft value and, arguably, reached for a QB (Rivers) that was expected to go in the bottom of the top 10 as "trade bait" suggests that the Giants very badly wanted Eli Manning. Very badly. The fact that the Chargers aggressively sought a trade before the draft and that drafted a QB they knew would never sign with the team means the Chargers really wanted to trade down at all costs.

This is a clear, clear, clear story of a team at #3 that badly wanted the top QB in the draft and a #1 pick team that didn't want that QB. It's a situation where the player in question was a close-to-surefire franchise QB was also evaluated much higher than the second pick in the draft and the second highest QB in that draft. And yet, the compensation was STILL considered too high.

If even a player as hyped up as Eli Manning isn't worth the ridiculously stupidly high trade value on the draft value chart, then why is that the same value the 49ers use to trade Alex Smith? Or that the Dolphins use to trade Jake Long?

(And for the record, I have never said that the draft chart is completely worthless or that they should take any pick they can get to trade down. Trade compensation should be based on how badly they want the best player on their board AND how confident they are that that guy will still be there when they are drafting--the confidence level increases significantly if the top 3 or 4 on your board are fairly equally valued).

If course the Giants very badly wanted Manning they were coming off an awful year needed a QB and the Manning name was going to help them significantly in the NY market.

From what I saw sanchez is quite capable of matching Drew Bledsoes 59 career playoff qb rating
Posted via Mobile Device

I think it's funny to see anyone who supposedly followed New England rip the player that turned their franchise around.

All the down talk of Bledsoe is nothing more than the remembering of recent history and not an entire history.

How many times are we going to have to go back and forth on this before you include the fact that Manning said he wouldn't play for SD?

Instead of factoring this into your analysis, you somehow state that SD clearly didn't want Manning. You really think this? Are you kidding? If Manning hadn't demanded NOT to play for the Chargers, you still think he'd be in NY?

That's where your entire argument becomes invalid. This had nothing to do with value being considered too high, and everything to do with the Chargers making the best out of a "bad" situation.

They wanted the top QB. He said, "**** off." So they still took him, orchestrated a trade with NY for whom they considered, I'd imagine, the second best QB, and got something in return.

If Manning would have never mouthed off and NY really, really wanted him, SD could have taken the Giants to the cleaners.

Well I don't know if you saw his performance today but it bordered on "girly" for all the 'hype' this kid has been given. At least admit you somewhat have your 'rose colored Sanchez USC shades' on to a degree here:thumb:

Yes I agree there are 5 o'clock hitters(batting practice) and their are gametime hitters(George Brett) Are you even old enough to know who Brett was and still is? :shrug:

But mark my words we will pick Curry or trade down at this point. And we will draft a QB but it will be in the later rds and I suspect it will be someone who Pioli feels fits the Tom Brady bill that is flying under the radar.

Willing to bet all of your casino cash on this?

I loved Bledsoe! Just too bad he got injured and got skiddish towards the end.

.........Yes we're going to take a strong side LB and then watch a guy try to pull a QB out of his ass...

I will be thrilled let me tell ya...people can say what they want about any GM but if he really in his mind believes he can pull any QB out of the 6th round and make him good that is the height of arrogance.

Why is it ignorant to question why a potential #3 pick that you're going to pay $70M had a poor workout? It shouldn't make or break the guy, but it's most definitely worth discussing. Why even bother doing the combine if you had your mind made up before evaluating these kids?

Pioli himself doesn't believe this, and he's said as much on several occasions.

He's had the luxury of drafting QB's late, b/c it's a great risk/reward, knowing more often than not he's burning the pick. But, what the ****, that's smart drafting in rounds 5-7.

I think the combine is very heavily overblown for the most part, the intelligence tests are important and some drills are but for the most part 1 bad day or 1 good day can overinflate or drop a guy to such a huge degree.

Anquan Boldin had the worst day of his life and well look how that turned out.

Sure if you are willing to bet all yours!:thumb: I'll take that bet!:D How do you do this on the board? I have seen the 'casino cash' thing but have never attempted to bet.

And that is kind of the point of what I said, he doesn't even believe it yet people think he does, do you realize how arrogant the man would have to be to actually believe it?

Arrogance combined with an unbelievable degree of willful ignorance.

I'm not giving you 4-1 odds.

We'll just say 2500 a piece. Whoever wins, we'll transfer the cash from one to the others.

And this is why Clark hired Scott:thumb:

Where's your confidence now Big Dog? Come on now!!!:rolleyes:

But you're not factoring in that a move to #1 was not just to prevent the Chargers from taking Eli Manning, it was also a move to leapfrog Oakland who had Mirer and Tuiasasopo as their top 2 QBs and Arizona who was starting Josh McCown. Do you really think the Giants wanted to take that chance?
The Chargers very aggressively shopped this offer to the Giants. The Giants did not want to give up the ridiculously high draft compensation to keep the #2 and #3 NFL teams from taking bar-none the best player in the draft.

And besides, the major point is, the Chargers got significantly less trade compensation than the trade chart would indicate and most people would claim that they won in a very big way from the trade. So if the trade chart is so right, then there is no way the Chargers should have made out well from that trade.

I have no problem giving you even odds. You were the one who said you were confident that they would do what you claimed.

If you were so confident, you'd take even odds.

If you won't, you aren't very confident.

It's not hard to understand.

When did you become the expert regarding New England Patriot history? I'm not even sure you know anything about the chiefs let alone the patriots.

Bill Parcells turned the Patriot franchise around and Bob Kraft saved the franchise from moving to St Louis, solidified its long term place in the area and built a football empire
Bledsoe helped bring hope with his potential he had a couple of very good seasons and then stopped improving. He won 3 playoff games. 2 of them because of the defense. He was good. Sometimes very good. He is not the example to use as a model of what you want for the chiefs looking for a franchise qb. Sorry.
Posted via Mobile Device

I'm putting 'ALL' my apples in one basket and you should put 'ALL' your apples in as well my friend "SINCE" you challenged me first. Put "ALL" your 'casino $$' where your supposed confident mouth is, huh?:shrug:

I definitely am!!!

And as you probably saw from scanning the thread, I defended Mark Sanchez for that reason. But the workout and the idea that he is maybe coming out a year too early are legitimate concerns that will certainly be heavily evaluated come draft day. I don't know why it's considered idiotic to bring them up.

Come on ! Gentleman's Chief brotherhood bet:)

Find three other morons to put up 2500 and I'll take that bet. But like I said, I'm not the one who professed confidence and then was too much of a coward to back up an even-money bet.

Precisely!!:thumb:

Oh but your so dammmmmmmmmmmmmn confident to challenge me 'FIRST' to bet all mine, huh?

Pussy!!! Who's the coward here???:rolleyes:

It's fine provided the right things are brought up, some of the arm strength complaints I saw in my view were more timing issues.

Yes I do profess that confidence! And General Patton is calling your bluff !!ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

I love tard logic.

Make an outlandish statement. Get called on it, then attempt to play "I'm rubber, you're glue."

Come on Hamas !!! Grow some 'brass balls' and swing them for a change!! You challenged first!! Finish what you started or look like a "bluffing pussy"!!!ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

It may be devastating to hear this, but General Patton died in 1945. You are either a zombie, or you aren't him.

What the hell is going on here? Who says neither Stafford or Sanchez belong in the top 10? Morons...

Outlandish????? Hell I don't think it is 'outlandish'!! I am putting all my $$ where my mouth is and you are running like most typical liberals tards do. Pop off at the mouth then don't back it up!!

Come on tough guy you came at me first and General Patton loves the sting of battle!!!

Peanut damn it! Get back on your meds!! You are funnier than this and I am disappointed! I am serious, man!!! For all the sh** you throw at me I should really dislike you but for some reason I feel sorry for you and I see a talent of humor you have but you haven't been on your game lately. What gives???

LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO

Originally Posted by sportsshrink http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
But mark my words we will pick Curry or trade down at this point. And we will draft a QB but it will be in the later rds and I suspect it will be someone who Pioli feels fits the Tom Brady bill that is flying under the radar.
Willing to bet all of your casino cash on this?

So, I bet 10,000 to win 2,500?

So then, I take it that your words are only worth 1/4 of others' since by marking them and getting called out, you want four times the return for the same bet.

I said "Willing to bet your casino cash?", and you wouldn't accept unless I gave you 4-1 odds, even though you said "Mark my words."

I know this is hard for you to understand, because you are one of the five dumbest people on this board, but someone who is ready to have their words "marked" are willing to make even-up bets.

I'll make an even up bet. I see that you don't have the cash to do it, so find a few other tards to stake you or take the same bet, and I'll make it straight up.

You are trying to split hairs here. Bottom line, you have the audacity to come at all of my $$ 'FIRST' thus I have a right to come back at all of your $$ since you saaaaaaaay you are as confident as me.

Back your confidence up with all of your $$ or turn tail and run:shrug:

lololol Peanut's not looking good is he?:shake:

Come on Hamas !! Where are you??????????? Did you have to go change your tampon??

**** this sonofabitch; I'll add my entire stash to Hamas' $2500. I don't use it anyway, and it's a cheap price to bring our little George C. Scott wannabe to his knees.

But if I win, I don't want your money. I want you sporting a Sanchez avatar with the following text above it:

In?

Gotta get to bed. Hamas I am disappointed but not surprised. Choose your words carefully next time will ya?

You should have said, "since you only have a quarter of casino cash that I do, I will match your $$ on your "outlandish statement". Then we would have had a bet and avoided this beleagured thread bantering.

However, because you came after "all" of mine first with your so-called confidence then it is only fair that I can come back at all of yours and expose the fact that "YOU" are NOT as CONFIDENT as I!!!!!

Another "POSER PUSSY" EXPOSED!!!!!!!!

Nahhhhhhhhhhh, nothing personal here "choir boy" but Hamas called me out, I answered the call and now he is no where to be found!

Here's what we're gonna do:

I'm gonna bet all my cash.

You're gonna bet all your cash.

After I win, I'm going to put you on a plan, Rent-A-Center style, by which you can make daily transfers in order to get up to the 10K you'll owe.

Niiiiiiiiiiiice.

As fans we've pretty much learned and saw all that we are going to from this years QB class. Stafford, Sanchez, Freeman, White, etc., will all shine on their own pro days. They are scripted, throwing to receivers they know well and highlight their strengths.

It's the individual team workouts that will tell the story. I wouldn't be surprised if KC brings in 5-6 QB prospects.

If you don't have NFL network Gruden talked about the individual team workouts for QBs. They'll give the player a playbook a few days before and ask him to learn the offense. They will watch game film with him and ask the prospect to break down video. They'll have the prospect try to run the offense they were supposed to learn from the playbook to see how quickly they learn and if they can run whatever the team is looking to do.

Don't you know they don't allow this kind of intelligent football talk here? :)
Posted via Mobile Device

Actually, we do. He's acknowledging that QB prospects will IN FACT be under serious consideration!

It's a small step, but a very important one on the road to recovery from TFS.

ChiefNJ is full of shit.

The only thing that matters in evaluating a QB prospect is the 10 throws they make in shorts to receivers they've never seen before.

Ass hole, nobody ever said they shoulnt be "under consideration"
Posted via Mobile Device

Good point. How much prep time if any do these guys get when throwing passes to someone they've never worked with before?

All these people bitching about long ball woes as it relates to Sanchez don't seem to get that his success in that area comes with throwing to guys that he has brutally practiced with until the timing on the part of both players is where it needs to be.

I hate dumb asses.

Forget to change your Depends this morning much?

Lay off your dad. He did the best he could
Posted via Mobile Device

Wow. Your "ha-ha Kung-Fu" is soooooooooo powerful. :spock:

by the way, children, your rep system here is bullshit... it allows a single poster to go in and post a negative multiple times one after another. so losers can spend 10 minutes hitting a negative over and over again, or a positive over and over again. like stuffing a ballotbox.

so y'all should know it means crap one way or another.

the same "gang of 14" who would die if a QB got picked did that to make it seem my view was generally unpopular.. the poll showing only 14% thought like you babies is much more accurate of the overall view out there.

so go masturbate each other.

upon closer review, kstater, crush, chiefs country, hamas jenkins, and Darth Carl Satan
accounting for 34 negative rep hits in one day. 5 guys.

the more honorable human beings who gave me positives each used it once.

so folks on my side, we can either be babies and i can make this like a high school popularity contest or a telethon and lobby for 10 positive rep hits from you all, or we can just be stand up guys and conclude we have a very vocal loudmouth idiot minority that think they all the shit.

last night they made it like my take was Soooooooooo reeruned.

But they are revealed as little boys who like to play with their internet toys.

5 guys. wow. what losers.

Actually, that's not true - after someone gives you rep one way or another, there is a minimum number of rep comments that must be given to other posters before they can hit you again - I think it's five or six, but I'm not sure. So if multiple people are hitting you over and over, they're actually putting some effort into it.

Congratulations - you're popular! :D

Okay Planeteers, what soul crushing mistake has just been made here:

:doh!::LOL:ROFL

so this even more pathetic then. i was wondering how they were doing it. so the loser 5 must be hitting a negative, then quickly banging out five others to their pals, then giving me a rep again.


its not a big deal. i dont care one way or another. i just wanted them to be revealed what babies they are.

negative away people. **** ya.

just dont want others to be intimidated by internet masturbaters like kstater, hamas, chiefscountry, crush, and Duh Carl Satan.

why, your not man enough to play with your toy openly?

Well you can ask for neg rep war and I am sure 99% of the board will obligue.

The more you harp on it, the more people will neg rep you... IF it dont bother you so much and you think it is childish, they why all the complaining about it?

just calling out the bullshit going on.

Calling it out is asking for more... People will just pile on, just to hear you complain...

LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO...

So throwing a deep ball 3 yards out of bounds is because you werent used to the receivers...come on.
The guy didnt have a good day throwing the ball. It doesnt mean he is dropping out of the first round or that he sucks but at least realize he had a bad day and it wasnt because he didnt have his receivers. He threw to the same guys everyone else did.

Yup

Hell Thigpen has trouble throwing the quick out or any sideline route, has a crappy deep ball along with zero ability to play under center...

People would still like to invest in him for the future...

So just because he had a bad day, doesnt mean squat over all... He still has is pro day and if a GM and HC want him, they will do what it takes to try and make him successful in the NFL...

People are just trying to create stories, looking for what sells, and we still have zero clue to what Pioli and Haley are going to do come April...

NO ONE is thinking about taking Thigpen in the top 10 of the draft or paying him 75 million dollars.
I could be wrong but I dont see the Chiefs taking either QB prospect in the first round. I dont think either is worthy.