The only thing Cassel has proven is that he is slightly better than Tyler ****ing Thigpen.

None of these guys are proven, and the only real stupidity here is suggesting that any one of the three are.

I'm no Cassel homer, but that's pushing it.

Good God, did Cassel **** your prom date or something?

Sure, a little.

But the fact is, Cassel is in no way "proven".

He's "proven" about as much as Derek Anderson had "proven" after the 2007 season.

My response was directed at the "makes you wonder how stupid some people are" comment.

That I can agree with.

The Thigpen thing though...made me throw up in my mouth a little.

One's bad enough.

I'm not necessarily ripping on Cassel. However, I have been a Chiefs fan since about 1967. 26 years ago we had the same #3 pick in the draft that we have this year. And we passed on Jim Kelly and Dan Marino (yes, I know that neither one of those won a Super Bowl). I hope we do not make the same mistake this time around. History sort of says Cassel will be a Matt Hasselbeck type of QB at best (which isn't bad), but I would prefer to see my team have a Peyton Manning. Chance of that happening are better with Sanchez that Cassel.

Moreso than the Wondertwins are.

Interesting deal. Don't think the Broncos got ripped off, got a lot of good stuff out of it... but that comes with the caveat that they now don't have a QB.

The Bears are obviously going all-in. I wouldn't call Cutler close to a local product though, Santa Claus is about 6+ hours away from Chicago. Chicago's about as far away as Atlanta is, and that's really not an exaggeration. Nashville would be a lot closer.

Only skimmed most of the thread, you knew the Cassel stuff was coming, despite how mentally imbalanced it is. Seriously, I think some of it is borderline mentally ill, I don't know why I even bother to post... to argue that Cassel obviously isn't good enough because we didn't give up enough to get him. What the heck is that? I hate saying this, but you can call me a true fan, I don't care, complaining that we didn't get fleeced in a trade, how in the bleep can you be a fan of a team and hope to get bent over in a trade? That is stupid. Despite the fact that the only reason Cutler was traded was because the Broncos wanted to trade Cutler FOR Cassel to begin with.

So, they wanted to trade Cutler away to get Cassel.... Cassel goes for a 2nd, Cutler goes for much more... therefore, instead of using logic and common sense to say the Bears gave up more than they should've, or that Cassel was really worth a 1st and 3rd or whatever, the Chiefs screwed up by not giving more value for Cassel. Brilliant!

No. It sounds a lot more like some people want this whole thing to fail just so they can be proven right. Which, that's fine, you're entitled to act however you want, but let's just call it like it is and quit using passive aggressive 4 year old stuff to make your point. That's all I have to say on the subject.

You really are ignorant. Just because a team got RAPED does not mean that ****ler is a franchise qb. I had the misfortune of watching him most weeks - there is a reason he has never had a winning record in college or pros and it is not poor defenses.

Sorry that some of us aren't doing backflips over his "experience."

Nothing like giving up 4-5 years in age for a guy that has had ONE season of experience, and happened to be surrounded by the dynasty of the decade.

Exactly.

Didn't you hear? Mecca has a crystal ball and knows what players suck and which players are awesome before they even play for us.

I don't know, it tells me something that two people( Pioli and McDanials) that were around Cassel last year, wanted him badly. Maybe they know more about what Cassel has as far as leadership and intangibles than anyone here. If Sanchez turns out to be an all pro great. I'm not betting he will be, no one knows. He hasn't played in the NFL and as far as I can tell he's had a pretty easy time of it on a team that is very talented with all day to find receivers. I don't doubt his arm or his athleticism, but he's no sure thing. Nether is Cassel but both men that were with the Patriots last year wanted him, I'll go with them.

That why I've yet to hear a single analyst - in close to 4 hours since the trade was announced - say that the Broncos got the better of the deal.

It's not 70/30. Or even 50/50.

It's universal among NFL experts that Chicago won this trade.

As Mike Mayock said:

Chicago has a franchise QB.

Denver doesn't.

But please, let your dislike toward anything Bronco continue to bias your opinion.

you have it wrong IMO he knows any player that plays for us sucks. i cant remember him saying anything positive about any of our players

Mainly because Sanchez has been annointed by the mob rule...

We are building a team. We are not like the Bears that are adding a QB to hopefully put us over the top. What would be wrong with having both Sanchez and Cassel for a year, and building this thing right for a change? 40 years between Super Bowls is a pretty good indicator the other ways we have been trying it have not exactly been the right way.

And the best QB we have probably had outside of Montana the past 40 years, we sent to Oakland of all places.

Too many needs to spend a first rounder on a QB

http://i41.tinypic.com/2gwgp4j.jpg

Who the **** is "complaining that we didn't get fleeced in a trade," or saying that "the Chiefs screwed up by not giving more value for Cassel?"

Gee - I'll use the same arguement that the asshat drafubators used - I WATCHED him. He sulks, he doesn't lead, he wines, if things go wrong it's not his fault and he sits on the bench alone crying.

The qb should be a leader. I don't care that he can throw it out of the length of the field - he doesn't make good decisons.

I live here and hear this shit all the time. There are a lot of people in this town that are glad the whiner baby is gone.

Your one of the "solid double" with the #3 pick crowd huh? I want a HR from my #3 pick.

The Bears are more than a QB away. Sanchez and Cassel together wouldn't work unless we planed on letting one or the other go in a few years. And why waste, and yes it would be a waste of a pick in the first round when, as you said, we are more than one player, and position away. That fist pick needs to be on the D or O-line.

LOL...I simply addressed his having more NFL experience than the Wondertwins....no backflips here. Relax.

I like Stafford over Sanchez, but I've said that before. Stafford's tools are off the charts, and he performed great in pressure situations. I like Sanchez too. But Cassel doesn't suck. And I think Stafford has a good shot to be better than Cassel. But then again, I've always though there's a solid chance Stafford isn't there when we pick. I like Sanchez too. But then again I liked Leinart a lot. It's not like we traded for AJ Feeley.

I understand why people are so burned by playing it safe under Carl, but there's a difference between playing it safe and trying to maximize value.

ROFL

OK.

You'll see what you want to see.

They are a lot closer than you might think. Solid defense. Decent O-line. Great RB. Dependable PK'er. Add another top WR to the bunch, and they are a serious contender.

How many winning seasons in the last 30 years has Vanderbilt had?

No, I am the fill in a need before a want type. It is very important to distingush between needs and wants.

Trent Green had 2 winning seasons out of 5, but people are quick to defend him.

The rule around here is that W/L don't matter when it's your QB, but it's everything when judging others.

And look its Carl Peterson.

As of April 2nd 2009, a franchise QB may still be a need. Better get it right now, cause once we hit 8-8 we may not have another chance to get one... short of doing it the Bears way.

Funny. Earlier in the thread, Mecca was defending Cutler saying if Denver would have had a respectable D, no one would be talking about his won/loss record. I didn't see anyone posting this stuff then.

I hear Ty Law is available and that Brandon Flowers only has one year experience.

We've been posting this for the better part of the last 48 hours.

But hey, I expect nothing less from this place.

If you mention Trent Green around here, all you hear is how he did everything he could - the defense let him down.

Then those same people criticize Cutler, when he had an almost identical defense, and went through 8 RB's.

Some people just can't get past the Denver connection, and will go to any length to discredit him. Without Cutler, the Broncos are fighting us for the cellar last year.

FTR, I have never said Cutler was a bad QB - that would be stupid. But between the diabetes thing and the fact that he's a surly, selfish punk, he has serious negative issues.

Another top notch WR? Who's the one they have.

He is a good QB, but I would not to start things off here with a moody, temperamental, diabetic, alcoholic QB. I would have liked to seen one of the wondertwins, sure. But it doesn't look that way after the Cassel trade....oh well. I'm not gonna hold my breath and stomp my feet because Pioli isn't doing it the way I, a FAN, see fit.

Lots of homo eroticism in here for a football forum.

TE. My bad. Hester can stretch the field. If the can get somebody in round 2, that passing attack could be pretty good. Especially with Forte out of the backfield.

Look, I see what you're saying, but it can't be both ways. Either wins are all that matters for a QB or not. The same people who say Roethlisberger is great because he wins even though he is average statistically and Trent Green wasn't good because he didn't win in the playoffs are making excuses for Cutler because his defense let him down?

I'm sorry, Chicago has one of the weakest receiving corps in the league.

There are still tons of stories about Cutler's drinking, right up through this past season. I'm not sure how explicity the story has been told, but he was supposedly spotted getting his goose on by someone in the Denver media the night before one of their final home games (which they lost in the midst of choking away the division).

I'd imagine stories like that will start getting repeated a little more freely now that he's gone. The alcohol issue was already cited by a local Denver station as one of the reasons McDaniels didn't want him, and while that particular report on its own may not be the most credible thing ever written, it's just another big cloud of smoke surrounding the fire.

It's not just the drinking itself, but the fact that his diagnosis hasn't changed his behavior. That's no small item and it's one of the major factors you have to consider when discussing Cutler's worth.

Which is why it's kind of funny to see people spending 7-8 pages talking about Cutler's value and then going "Whaaa? I never heard he drinks".

It's so funny to hear guys talk about quarterbacks and winning seasons or playoffs making them. No one player does it all. It doesn't matter. Was Trent Dilfer a great quarterback? Was Archie Manning not a great quarterback? I think that given a long enough starting career, Trent Green could have been a great quarterback. I think Cutler has the talent to be a great quarterback....we'll see if he has the temperment and brain cells to pull it off. He definitely has the arm and instincts for it. Put Tom Brady on the Falcons or the Bills, He's may be good, but not in the running for top 5 all time. IMO

It's more that you, and your ilk have completely discounted Cassel before he's even played a down for the Chiefs.

What it's come down to on this board is a divide between the true fans and the non fans. I think everyone knows where they stand on that. Myself, I'm a true fan, in that I want the Chiefs to win, and think the new guys are making decisions to make that happen. Then theres Mecca and his merry band of high school football stars who really don't seem to give a shit one way or the other, as long as the guys they don't like fail in the end.

LMAO

I agree with all of that up until Brady. I think he's a once-in-a-generation player and one of the very, very few guys that I think could elevate the play of anybody around him. That Patriots offense has been good because of him, not vice-versa, and I think last year - for as well as Cassel played - demonstrates that as well as anything else. Their win/loss record clouds the issue, and their defense was a problem for much of the season, but, even so, that offense was not even close to what it was when he was behind center.

I know it's en vogue to hate the guy, but he's really, really good. Like Montana in his prime good. Like Elway good. He belongs in any discussion with those guys, on his own merit.

You can look here for that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanderb...dores_football


But more to the point, here are the last seven years:


2002 2 10 0 .167
2003 2 10 0 .167
2004 2 9 0 .182
2005 5 6 0 .455
2006 4 8 0 .333
2007 5 7 0 .417
2008 7 6 0 .539 *includes bowl win*


Red years with Cutler. Same coach throughout. Looks like they're trending up. Since Cutler.

In the 2006 season, Vanderbilt finished with a 4–8 record with sophomore Chris Nickson at quarterback. The 2006 team's peak performance came with a 24–22 defeat of conference rival #16 ranked Georgia at Sanford Stadium, the first time Vanderbilt had ever defeated a ranked opponent on the road. The team came within seconds of defeating Arkansas and Alabama in consecutive weeks.

In 2007, Vanderbilt upset #6 ranked South Carolina 17–6 at Williams-Brice Stadium in Columbia, beating a top 10 team for the first time in 33 years. It was the highest ranked team Vanderbilt had beaten since defeating #6 LSU in 1937, and came one week after losing 20–17 to #21 Georgia on the final play of the game in Nashville. In the following home game against Miami (Ohio), junior wide receiver Earl Bennett made history by breaking the SEC record for most career receptions. Vanderbilt would go on to win the game 24–13.

In 2008, after playing 5 games, the Commodores were 5-0 for the first time since 1943, 3-0 in the Southeastern Conference for the first time since 1950, and one victory away from being eligible for their first bowl appearance since 1982. In the 5th game, they defeated SEC rival Auburn for the first time since 1955, when backup quarterback Mackenzi Adams led them back from an early 13-point deficit. Vanderbilt lost its next four games, but history was made on November 15, 2008, when Vanderbilt defeated the Kentucky Wildcats to become bowl eligible for the first time since 1982. The Commodores finished the 2008 regular season with losses to Tennessee and Wake Forest, completing the regular season with a 6-6 record (4-4 in the SEC).

Their 2008 finish was good enough for the Commodores to earn an invitation to play the Boston College Eagles in the Music City Bowl on December 31, 2008. In a dramatic come-from-behind win, Vanderbilt beat Boston College by a score of 16-14, to win its first bowl game in fifty-three years.

Their defense must be much better the last couple years than when Cutler was there. No way they only win that many games if he gets some defensive help./CP "non true fans"

Best. Offseason. Ever.

And as pointed out numerous times, I want the team to win as well, and have said that I hope like hell I'm wrong on Cassel. I'll gladly eat crow if he leads us to a championship.

Unlike you, I feel it is perfectly acceptable to hope your team wins, while sometimes disagreeing with decisions that are made by the FO.

Just because Pioli has 3 rings to his name doesn't make him impervious to failure, or making bad decisions.

Say it loud and say it proud.

I'd rather be wrong than right about Cassel but I'm not going to change my logical opinion to express that.

I don't think being a real fan means you sit back and don't question moves you don't agree with.

STL is the only hope under GOD for Denver now. I wonder if Spags will barter?

I'd require an industrial-sized, zoo mop to clean up the JIMP!


ROFL ****in' shit!ROFL

It's part of the Pioli master plan; we acquire him for dirt-cheap as our O-Coord in the 2009 off season.

LMAO


Damn straight.

Derek Anderson had more college experience, less to work with on offense, a far inferior staff to help him, and had the same record as a starter.

Just got off work, details please?

This origin myth is right up there with the Trickster Coyote. For ****'s sake, does anyone read the goddamned news anymore?

Nevermind just saw the bears were assraped in the trade then skull****ed afterwards

Watch Chicago go 14-2 or something and Denver ends up with a low 1st next year. Which still ain't too bad. I can't believe they got 2 first's for him. A 1st, 3rd and Orton was more than sufficient. :spock:

Neckbeard sailith to Denver, Cutler is now a Bear. Chicago gave away the house, and the Donks are now the proud owners of the greatest ass-rape in NFL History.

(Sucks about U-Conn. We made 'em work for it though, and I'm jazzed about Anderson after his display of true class :thumb:)

I still don't see how all these people think the Donks raped the Bears. Its quite clear to me that the Bears mauled the shit out of the donks.

It's a Bizzaro World thing. You'll find a lot of that here; up is down, down is up, Cassel is God, Sanchez is an untalented risk etc.

Are you reeruned?

He is disagreeing with you that the Broncos raped the Bears, and somehow you take that as him agreeing with you to take a shot at everyone else.

You really are dense.

Can you ****ing read? Or can you not interpret? I'm agreeing with HIM that the Bears DID IN FACT ass-rape the Donks.

But in the overall picture, they BOTH got ****ed. IT'S A SHIT DEAL ON BOTH SIDES.

Jeezus ****ing christ...

Obviously I enjoy listening to your silly comments about giving up the farm for a QB, who is talented, no doubt, but has many issues.

We might be hitting the point that the "rape" metaphor goes a little too far.:hmmm::shrug:

So, DCS, "suck my balls" got tired, or did you get banned with that one too?

Your logical opinion? You like Sanchez more than Cassel isn't that it? Just because the Chiefs don't agree and they feel Cassel will be a better QB for the Chiefs? I understand not liking a move but you can start to find yourself, without realizing it, hoping Cassel fails to have a kind of, I told you so moment. It happened to me with the Royals.

LMAO

WHAT?

Mecca only has "logical opinions". His opinions are better than than plain ol' opinions.

LMAO

cutler = grossman (+ picks)

So now a complete circle is 2/3rds complete. We get our guy at QB, screw Denver who screws Chicago. All that's left is for Denver to give us their 1st rounders for our #3 to get Sanchez!!!

Probably that the Chiefs got a ridiculously good deal on a non diabetic QB that has double digit wins in one season, which is something that Cutler has not done. Oh, and our QB isn't a whiny little biatch.

The Broncos fleeced the Bears, but this deal just makes me approve of the Cassel deal even more.

I'm inclined to agree with Sinsemilla here...

Oddly enough, I think most would.....but to some, we hate QB's because of it.

I know, I don't know either....:shrug:

SMB could summon the hammer telepathically and at any time of his choosing.

And he did.

Great. Another GoatCheese without the photoshop skills.

Considerably more annoying in this case. At least Claythan isn't stupid.

Well, Orton has been the starting QB for the Bears when they won 10 and 9 games in 2 of the last 3 years. So, I guess he's not that bad, eh?