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Whitlock: Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back?
(https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=220265)
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And you can't say "rookie head coach that will learn" or "talent depleted roster". |
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Yes, Pioli and Haley have ****ed up royaly. I agree, the choice to cut Pollard was a dumb move. I agree that Cottam should have been starting the whole time. But how much of that is on Pioli vs Haley? I blame Haley for those moves. Pioli failed to bring in decent vets. Yes, we are all aware of that. But, lets say he brings in some good vets this offseason. Let's say our ILB's and Ron Edwards, and a few of our O-linemen are moved to second/third string and some quality players are brought in to start. Then would you say we have decent depth? IMHO, Pioli brought in the Depth/special teamers this past offseason knowing, at worst, they could be soild depth/special teams contributers next season. He hoped to get some starters out of this project. Maybe we did find some starters, maybe we didn't. i don't know if i agree with this plan or not, but, he now knows what he has. for sure. Maybe he is adding the core first, and then adding the stars second. Either way, im willing to give him more then 14 games to determine wether or not Pioli is a failure. Haley on the other hand, gets a much smaller window. |
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If, if, if. That's all I see in your post. Conjecture. When Pioli & Haley deserve credit, I'll credit them. When they don't, I won't. Bottom line. |
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Who did he fail at doing his job with in KC is my question. Jimmy Wilkerson was only coached by TK for 2006+2007 and its not his fault they had to dedicate the majority of the playing time at de to Jared Allen and their new first round DP LDE, Tamba Hali, those two were the producers. CP should have re-signed him and penciled him in as the starter after he traded JA. Tanks improvement year to year here should be credited to his coaching. Dorsey has been playing out of position since the day he got here, but look at the progress he made from last year to this one and then pat TK on the back and give him credit for it. He should have been a collosal bust as a 5-tec, on paper, I bet 90% of all bbs would have concluded that if polled on it. You should see dramatic improvement in TJs play next year if my assumption is correct (this is of course if our, hopefuly new, dc doesnt want to bring in all his own assistants) Shit lets look back at the job he did with one of the better players he was given in Buffalo and how he did without him, shall we? Aaron Schobels sacks 2004 8 2005 12 2006 14 <-----this was his last year coached by TK 2007 6.5 2008 1 2009 7 Seems he fell of after TK left to me, whats it look like to you? I honestly cant comment on the other prospects he was given there as I would be talking out of my arse and I try not to do that. I would fairly say that there really aren't any players that he missed the boat on in KC, so far, as far as getting them to improve their play each year they were under his coaching, can you? (by you, I mean anybody on the forum, not trying to call you out, I value your opinion more than others here to be honest) Quote:
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Coach Slap Dick is now being defended on this forum. LMAO.
Last year, he was working with nothing but first day talent on the D-line, and he managed to achieve records with this group. This year, he has yet another 1st rounder, and we've consistently been getting gashed. Yes, the LBs and secondary have to shoulder responsibility, too, but to claim that we've seen jack shit out of Slap Dick is amazing. |
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I guess I may have missed your point there. Im always game to learn a new trick, back your comment with something I can get behind. I love the Rooneys and know they are great owners but I guess I dont fully understand why you feel that way. About every single difference maker they have was drafted by them, right or wrong? |
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1. The continued improvement of our CB's. If we could add an Eric Berry to that mix and get Page healthy again, that's a pretty damn good secondary. 2. Hali has been a good surprise. Is he a Pro Bowler? No. But we can win with him. He went from being a bust last season, to a player we can with this season. 3. We have found some decent depth at LB. None of our ILB's are starters. But, Belcher and Mays provide decent depth. Studebaker looks like a solid OLB in the making, but he gets pushed around at the LOS. Maybe another offseason to build some bulk and work on technique will help with that. If we can add a starter from the draft and a decent starter F/A this offseason, we could be looking at a strong LB unit. 4. Haley's scheme looks pretty damn good. The execution and his game management, not so much. BUT, you can start to see what he wants to do with the offense. Now, he needs some better players and they need more practice, and we may be seeing the offense begin to blossom. 5. We have found a great back in Charles. I know, i know, he didn't start right away. But it's not like he wasn't getting used. Haley was looking for ways to get him the ball. LJ was a 2-down back with JC coming in at 3rd down. And to JC's credit, he has been getting better each week. But, so has our O-Line. 6. Our O-Line. They are starting to gel. They look like they understand there assignments. The start of the season, they didn't even know who they were suppose to block. They look like they know now. Albert continues to grow. I see a solid LT that is quick enough to run trap plays and screens. And you know that is what Haley wants to do. Maybe the reason why we didn't see a guy Like Richardson early, is because he wasn't ready. Callaghan and Ndukwe are young O-linemen that got in early. So, Haley is willing to play young O-linemen. 7. Chris Chambers. Now we have a vertical threat. Add a Golden Tate or someone with a like skill set to that mix....Now we have a soild WR core There are things to be excited about. There are some positives. Pioli has a great track record for finding F/A's. That shit doesn't just disappear overnight. As long as they don't out think themselves in the Draft (tyson Jackson) Pioli will be alright. IF our GM has it together, then wins will come. We have some pieces in place. Shit is starting to take mold. We can all go on for days about what they did wrong, but why? |
Haley is not going to get fired. All we can do is hope he can take a step back in
the offseason and realize his approach has failed monumentally and make some coaching changes starting with Clancy and his failed scheme. The dam broke last Sunday after we were starting to really have our defense exposed against Buffalo. Posted via Mobile Device |
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flame away, buddy. |
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If he were starting, then people would find ways to bitch about him too. He didn't look any better out there than Vrabel, but at least Vrabel can read the "O" Now, im excited about Studebaker, don't get me wrong. I have hopes for him and i do think he is a good young talent. But he has not been that great. And Richardson got destroyed at RT in the preseason. It was obvious he had a long ways to go. |
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Tell me why this talented coach got so little out of so much last year. 4 day-one picks, and they couldn't stop the run or rush the passer. Please defend this. |
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2. Hali is NO surprise: He is what he's ALWAYS been: An average pass rusher and completely useless against the run. 3. Haley's a completely bumble**** when it comes to evaluating the offensive line. Rudy Niswanger? Are you ****ing kidding me? Wade Smith is 10x the center as Niswanger. Play Nsukwe out of position at Right Tackle was a good thing? Starting O'C over Richardson was a good thing? JFC. 4. Chris Chambers is 31 years old and he'll be 32 to start the season. Who knows if he'll chose to return but firstly, he's not a long term solution and secondly, the wheels could fall off at any second. Plus, he's got a serious domestic situation to deal with. I don't see anything here that you've stated that makes me believe that Todd Haley is a competent coach worthy of returning. |
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The "reason" that the Steelers are successful and have been successful for half a century is due to the ownership. Don't you understand that? They've had several GM's and only three coaches since the 70's. They're not successful because they've stuck with those coaches, they're successful because success starts from the top. The Rooneys have hired the right people for four decades. That isn't an accident. |
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He's a 6th rounder from a Division III school. On a shit team like the Chiefs, who have absolutely no playoff hopes and whose primary mission SHOULD BE to find and build a youthful core of players, Mike Vrabel should be no where near the field except in the event of injury. That's what is SO damn confusing about the direction of the current Chiefs: There IS no direction. PERIOD. |
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I hope we made the right choices and that a lot of this first year is chalked up to a total flush of a season to begin with in retrospect a couple years from now. time will tell |
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1. Just because they were on the squad, doesn't mean they haven't improved. What did JC prove last season? What did Studebaker do last season? And the question wasn't whether or not there was pre-existing talent, the question was if there was anything to be positive about. I told you, yet you continue to be negative. 2. Hali is a surprise. Did you honestly believe he would see success transitioning into the 3-4? Really? No one here did. Obviously he has his weaknesses. BUT, like i said, we can win with him. As i said, he is no pro-bowler, but TH will not be the reason we loose games. 3. Rudy has been improving. We have plenty of potential RG's right now. At the time we needed a RT. Ndukwe was asked to fill that need. he failed at it. Why start him at RG when we have better RG prospects? And do you seriously not remember how bad Richardson was? He was awful, and then after 1 game against the Browns he is better than O'C? Come on man, at least let's see him play another start before declaring him the best RT on the team. 4. So what if he is turning 32. The dude can play. He is a stop gap, but a good one. We can win with him. He has opened things up for this offense and there is plenty of reason to believe that he can carry that over. He is a playmaker, and we will ride him till his wheels fall off, same way we did Kennison. You're choosing to look at the glass half emptey. That's on you, dude. |
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http://www.nfl.com/players/jaredalle...e?id=ALL454745 |
come on you cant fire Haley you just got ride of Herm after 3 years of crap then yas give the team to Haley who had a team of no talent hacks to start with and now with one more win then we would of had under Herm this year you guys want to scrap him and start all over I mean how long do yas want to be rebuilding
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WE ALL KNOW what is wrong with this team. It's no secret. Some people just want to say that there is nothing to look forward too. I see things that we can build upon. People wanna say that im full of "ifs" and "Maybe's", well that's all we have right now if we want to look towards the future. IF, that's right, IF we draft Eric Berry, how much better is our secondary? How many of those long runs and deep passes occur with Berry and Page in the lineup? IF we can land an ILB in the draft, ala Cinnci, and sign a Hampton or Wilfork, how much better is our front 7? IF we can add a Golden Tate in the second, or sign one in the offseason, how much better are our WR's? I really don't think there is a fixing of Cassel, i don't Think Haley can be fixed either. They are what they are. But, im reserving hope. What else can we do? |
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Damn! I can't believe I just typed that! I may have to go have a drink or two just because. |
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JFC, you act like all of the sudden, after 4 years of college and one in the NFL, the guy woke up and was a good back. And Studebaker? Again, do you know ANYTHING about these Chiefs? Studebaker was signed LATE in the season off of Philly's practice squad. He's a DIVISION III PLAYER. Not D-I, not D-IA, not D-II. Division THREE. And he was only with the Chiefs for their final 6 games. ****! Quote:
His numbers are nearly IDENTICAL to his numbers as a DE. And apparently, you didn't watch the Cleveland game because were do you think those 300 rushing yards came from? Oh, that's right: Running over Tamba Hali! Quote:
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Potential right guards? First off, Wade Smith is THE BEST center, right guard, left guard and right tackle on this football team, bar none. Why he wasn't playing, let alone starting is ****ing beyond my comprehension. More proof that Haley can't evaluate talent. Secondly, Nsukwe started 15 games at right guard last year for the Dolphins, yet the Chiefs played him out of position for weeks at right tackle. More proof of poor talent evaluation. Richardson? Are you joking? When he filled in for Albert at left tackle, he did a tremendous job. The Browns had EIGHT SACKS of Rothlisberger yet one of Cassel with Richardson on the right side AND the running game was much improved. If you can't see that, then you might as well stop posting. Quote:
Well, that shit don't fly. First off, Chambers numbers have been steadily declining due to injury and age. He has legal issues and marriage issues stemming with an affair with a 25 year-old girl, which is why he was cut by San Diego. She's been charged with 11 misdemeanors. Furthermore, there is absolutely NO guarantee that he'll even want to return and quite honestly, I'd hate to see him get a contract and revert to his lame ass ways in San Diego. This team should be focused on developing YOUTH, not rehabbing old ****S. |
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Geez Dane, cant a guy have hope anymore? |
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Anyhow.......How many big plays did Charles have last year vs this year? You going to tell me he isn't an improving player? And Studebaker, once again you claim he was a talent from last year. Last year, he proved nothing. You saying that he was a DIV III player only reiterates that he is improving, which is exactly what i said.......JFC GRRRR ARRRR! AHHHH!!!Im so Mad YOU ****ING IDIOT ARRR!!! Regarding Tamba: I never said he was a great player. But you seem to act like i said that. And yeah, they were running over Gilberry and the rook. How come no one runs 300+ yrds over him when Dorsey is in the game? You're just reaching for shit to argue with me about now. Face it dude, Hali is not a bad player, we can win with Hali. Accept it. Its ok. And you claiming that Wade Smith is a good RG only reiterates what i was saying about Ndukwe. We needed him to play RT, because we already have guys that can play RG. And who is the best RT, Richardson or Smith? make up your mind. Oh, ahem, ARGHHHH LMFAO!!! And im Chambers will get over his marriage issues. You act like he is the first player to ever have a divorce, JFC ARRGHHH Arghh |
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The facts are the facts. |
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Studebaker has been a playmaker, period. Vrabel has not. Studebaker is under contract for the next three years. Vrabel isn't under contract next season. Studebaker is 24 years old. Vrabel is 33 years old. There is absolutely NO REASON for Mike Vrabel to be on the field with a 3-11 football team when it's quite possible that the younger guy is a better player with far more potential. It's indefensible. |
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We had lost 10 games up to the Browns game. We played terrible in all areas last week. I don't understand how most of you view this scenario? Did you think we were going to be good? And if you knew we were going to be bad why are you saying you want a coaching change? When obviously every piece of the puzzle doesn't fit yet. It's just stupid. A late hired GM, a late hired coach, late hired assistants, rookies that don't perform and lack talent, and veterens on their way out. |
Well here's my Improvement List....
OLine improvement - The OLine actually has a little consistency at the moment. I didn't think they'd get much better after midseason, but they have. Slightly, but it's been enough to give the offense opportunities at least. J. Charles - What a ****ing breath of fresh air after the LJ BS. Charles is quietly and persistently kicking ass since LJ pouted off to Cincy. Even when he's stuck with less than perfect run blocking, he's making things happen. And teams are noticing his big play ability. With LJ, I always expected 15-20yds tops from his best play of the game. With Charles, he can take any random snap to the house. His plays has done wonders for the rest of the offense(Other than Cassel...). Succop - Mr. Irrelevant has proven he is not. Keep those kickoffs deep... Hali - I include him only because I didn't think he'd contribute at all. But he is what he is. He's hit his talent ceiling, but despite that we can find uses for his skillset. Dorsey - He's been great this season for what he's overcome. It's no coincidence that the game he's out, we let some punk nobody wear away all the grass at Arrowhead. Aggressive 4th down calls - I know Haley has misused it numerous times, but I still love to see us leading the league in 4th down attempts. I love this mindset, and when used correctly I think this can make a real difference in keeping the offense unpredictable. With as little as we have to lose, why not... Brandon Carr - I'm still not sold on Carr, but I have to say he has improved over the course of the season. He's got some Dale Carter "Big play or big mistake" moments still. But he might hang on in the league after all. |
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I said back in May 2008 that the Chiefs would be 2-14. I was correct. I said in May 2009, they'd be 4-12. We're yet to find out if that was right or wrong. The bottom line is that unlike you and a select few members, I am objective. I don't see "Unicorns and Rainbows" when I look at this roster. I don't see a competent head coach who makes sound decisions and plays his best players. I don't see a competent first time GM, who with more than 45 player acquisitions, has failed to bring any long-term stability to the roster at any position and have failed miserably to bring a playmaker at any position to the team. If you believe otherwise, I'd like to see actual factual proof because I can back up each and every claim I've made. Can you? Quote:
It's a damn shame that Scott Pioli couldn't add a ****ing thing to this foundation. |
I'll go on record and say Haley should be back next year.
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If you predicted a 4-12 team, then why are you mad, lol? All of those issues you listed are symptoms of a 4-12 team. But you saw that coming right? So, you expected, a well coached, talented, 4-12 team? Uhm, ok. If we had everything going your way we wouldn't have a 4-12 season. And i am not objective? YOU are not objective. Like i said i can put together a nice list of everything that is wrong with this team in conjunction with things that are right. Yet, you can only put together a list of shit that is wrong, yet you're objective? Uhm...ok. And only a select few members have nothing positive to say about the team. Please......I am in the same exact boat as most on this forum. Just because no one else wants to debate with your stubborn, know-it-all ass doesn't mean that i am alone in my thinking. I don't wear rainbow colored glasses, i know what this team is. We all do. Just because I don't join you in berrating this forum with negativity doesn't mean i don't know and acknowledge the teams many shortcomings. You pulled that conclusion out of your ass. I've never said this team is great, i never said this team was good. I never said i agreed with Pioli's draft, his F/A signings or Haley's game management. Did I? Yet you want to keep pretending like i've said such things in an effort to try to deter the fact that you are a pessimist. Face it dude. You act like im the first person to call you that. I'm just calling it how i see it. But of course, you're the only one who sees a bad team right? Because you know it all, and no positive comment could ever be right. Everything sucks in Dane's world. Pioli should be fired and this entire roster should just go with him after 14 games, right Dane? And im sure YOU KNOW who Pioli attempted to sign, because you have Pioli's phone tapped, right? You don't know whether or not Pioli attempted to sign good vets. How many good vets would want to come to KC? Is the city enticing...eh no. The team enticing...eh no. The coach...eh, no. So, without overspending in your first year as a GM, how do you propose landing big F/A's? would you like me to put together a list of shit that is wrong with this team? Will i be more objective in your eyes if i did that? hmm? Make you feel better? |
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Todd Haley needs 3 years to prove he is the worst coach in the NFL, we got rid of Herm and got worse, didn't think I'd be saying that.
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I think he should be fired.
I told him so. He did not agree. |
Well just remember George, it was all your fault just ask those WPI guys.
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I'm done responding to your bullshit little questions. |
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I wonder if Dane listens to scream-o music and cuts his wrists and lets the mascara run down his teary-eyed face...
guy has the rationale of a 14 year old girl |
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You bring absolutely nothing to this forum. |
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hopefully, Clark is different from his dad, but Im not feeling all that optmistic about him either. |
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People are funny on this website that get all crazy about things and act as if they know more then the front office guys. There are so many ways to build teams and win with them, there is no one right formula. You just gotta get lucky on some picks and anything can happen. No one knows if their pick is going to turn out and make that leap to the next level. Anything can happen. |
did you just re-up a fight from 6 months ago?
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Clark Hunt has been running the show since before Lamar died. That throws the "last 2 years" bit right out the window. |
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So Mecca, what would you think about those that consider those answers like process, time, yadda yadda now? Quote:
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Now you see why I said that DJLN is the dumbest mother ****er on here?
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[QUOTE=kstater;7288362]So Mecca, what would you think about those that consider those answers like process, time, yadda yadda
Jeez, no wonder the guy went into hiding. I've seen alot of fail here, but he set the bar in the last year or so. |
[quote=PGM;7288449]
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Mecca isn't close to being the biggest dumbass in this thread. Full of total fail. |
[QUOTE=Marcellus;7288494]
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Not a 1 of the 4 horsemen appear to have many (and in some cases none) correct posts thoughts or opinions in this thread. Yet they know more than you do and as I have seen stated and backed up by other horsemen, they are better than you, end of story. |
LMAO
These threads are going to be bumped forever, aren't they? |
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[QUOTE=Marcellus;7288528]
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I do love the immediate defense they go into about - "Is this all CP is about now? Proving people wrong for having an opinion?" LMAO |
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I'm pretty sure that's all CP has ever been about; since I've been here at least. I could count the number of civil football conversations on one hand. |
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There was a time when namecalling was virtually non existent. At some point, name calling became much more prevalent, and speaking for myself only, I responded in kind, and it became a part of the every day debates. |
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I have been guilty of being drawn into it and have mad a very concerted effort to not do that even when "debating" with the master name caller. |
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However, I also don't believe that one can look at another franchise and point to it as a model for how things will play out. |
Falcons had a good year then regressed. Now came back stronger. That's how I can see it playing out.
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