A lot of the guys that many of us wanted to draft on the O-Line went to teams that had solid O-Lines already, so it's unfair to say that we should regret passing on them, becuase we had shit.

I've been wrong a lot in the past, and have said so when it applies.

I've yet to be proven wrong on anything since Pioli's been hired.

When the day comes, if the day comes, I'll come and eat crow like I did when I was wrong about Carl or any past player.

No, I took those into account when I said I think he would see much less than 67% of the snaps actually.

Maybe..but that isn't what I was talking about...It is a huge IF, as the average RB's career is only about 3 years or so anyhow.


He isn't the #2 back though. We have Jones and Charles as the 1 and 2. He is the #3. Not sure what your definition of hefty is....but, 50% of the snaps is pretty hefty in my eyes, and I doubt he will even get that. If he does, it will be a good pick.

Yep.

I hate this team, that's why I've spent over $25k of my hard-earned money to attend games, at home and on the road, over just the last 7 years alone.

But then why come onto a message board just to give your opinion and defend it, when you admit that your opnion will never change? To hear yourself talk? To constantly believe that everyone else is wrong and you are the only correct person?

It is very strange, you must admit..

Just to be clear here, there were guys available at our pick in the second round who would have definitely solved our pass rushing and/or ILB issues for the next decade? If that is correct, who specifically are these players? I'm a bit shocked that these guys weren't drafted higher, given their guaranteed long-term production.

I watched the Bills a lot last year, becuase od Wood and Meredith specifically.

Andy Levitre was the best of the four rookies.

Wood looked lost a few times, but did show his talent as well, and will probably become a stud.

But Demetrius Bell showed the athletic ability that some said he had going onto the draft, and said he was a project that had huge upside.

He was that.

He struggled more than the rest, but his upside is off the charts.

He could, if they show patience and stick with him, become a top 5 LT.

But I think you're ruling out the fact that we'll have plenty of opportunity to find these guys over the next few years.

I don't think this even remotely says that Pioli is satisfied with the front 7. I think we'll be aggressive in free agency next offseason, where we can probably find a pass rusher and maybe a Nose Tackle like Wilfork. And I think that over the next two drafts and the offseason, we can fix the ILB problem. And while you'll overpay for those guys, at least you know exactly what you'll get.

Admitting you were wrong is changing your opinion?

Seems to me that whatever you hold an opinion on would have to become somewhat factual or generally accepted, or you wouldn't admit you were wrong.

At that point, it's no longer an opinion, is it?

Hey, I was on that bandwagon as well.

I'm just admitting that while the Chiefs did have serious needs along the offensive line, one year later, it doesn't seem like the Chiefs were passing up sure-fire Pro Bowlers in rounds 3-7.

Which also makes it likely the all of these defensive players available won't be sure-fire Pro Bowlers as well.

You can scout the shit out of these guys for 8 years, from high school to college and at the end of the day, be wrong about how they project to the NFL.

It doesn't take 5 years to rebuild a football team, no matter how poor it is.

Pioli and Jim Schwartz started their rebuilding process at the same time.

From the looks of it, Schwartz is well ahead of Pioli - though no one will admit it because of Detroit's history.

No one wants to admit that a franchise like Detroit is doing a better job rebuilding than we are.

Dinner time. I'm out..

yeah Detroit did great when they passed on Oher for Pettigrew!

what did they do this year?

Draft a tackle the drafturbators like in the 5th round!

Whoohooo! I bet he's a sure thing.

I think this idea that people have that next year's free agency is going to be some kind of deep pool of talent is off base.

With no cap this year, guys with big contracts that teams feel are not players that will play to that contract will be cut or traded, if possible.

The guys that teams want to keep will probably stay put when a new agreement is in place, because teams are going to have tons of money under the cap to keep those guys.

I think you're talking about a RB like Adrian Peterson or Priest Holmes. AP takes way too much punishment as a back and Priest played in a league where 350+ carries was the norm.

Usually, RBs are slowly introduced to the league to get used to NFL workloads. Like when AP was limited to only 240 carries his rookie year. Jones has 1-2 years here max. In 2 years, I think McCluster will take on a Sproles role, where he takes a pretty decent amount of carries per game. If the goal is to prepare for 3 years from now, rather than trying to win today, that's a valuable asset for the Chiefs.

The difference is that Pioli isn't going to be happy until he's got HIS 53 guys in place.

It's a huge gamble, IMO, but it's one that Clark Hunt is obviously willing to take.

At the end of the day, regardless of how any of these guys pan out, the Chiefs didn't try.

With the exception of Colin Brown, you're right. But I don't think they could have set their "plan" in motion if they had taken more offensive lineman.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's the reality.

I'm still shocked that they didn't address the center position this year but apparently, they feel they can count on Weigman for a full season.

I hope they're right...

Yes, it is...That is kind of the definition...


If your opinion is that 'it is a mistake to draft X player' and then he does well and you change your opinion to 'that really was a good pick' or the facts prove themselves to differ from what your opinion was then your original opinion on the matter was wrong...

If you think 'it wont be dangerous to jump off of this bridge into the water' then you break your neck, your opinion turned out to be wrong.

You are making arguments that are opinions...like 'x player is a mistake' etc...that kind of opinion (or argument) can be debated...(Google some opinion papers)...It is called Logic 101

You aren't here saying 'I love the smell of roses after they are jammed into my boyfriend's asshole' which is the kind of opinion that is not arguable without knowing whether or not you are telling the truth.

You are confusing the former with the latter.

As we all know, Pioli shit the bed in 2009. There's no excuse for that. That's the main reason we're behind Detroit. But the 2009 season is behind us now. Grill me if you want, but even though he shit the bed in 2009, I'm fine if we get it right every year going forward.

And I like the approach to the 2010 draft. It wasn't a panic reflex to make up for last year's mistakes. It wasn't a panic to fill needs. It was based on sticking to their board and picking guys at the right value. You may not like the pick, but pretty consistently everyone outside of KC seems to believe that very few of these guys were reaches.

Well, assuming there's no CBA. I think a lot of players got RFA tags from teams who didn't want to commit to them long-term. Sproles and Wilfork immediately come to mind. I don't think we'll ever see a free agency period like we did 10 years ago ever again. But it will be significantly deeper than last year, especially if we install a new cap.

With the 36th pick of this particular draft, I'd be very surprised and upset if McCluster wasnt a gigantic contributor offensively to this team, especially watching DeSean Jackson, Maclin and Harvin contribute immediately to their respective teams.

If you're going to take a guy that high with so many needs elsewhere, if he doesn't contribute 50%, 55%, 60% or whatever of the time, you've made a mistake with that pick.

I think they took him there because that's what they expect.

I guess silence is golden.

I'm hoping they saw something in Daryl Harris when they started working him out at center that tells them he might have some potential to be the long term answer there with some work, and that's the reason they didn't address it.

I just can't fathom not addressing it with an aging Weigman and Niswanger as your only options.

Silence boy.

Children are mean't to be seen and not heard.

I'm with you.

I also can't believe that Harris isn't in their plans. He's shown too much in what little time he's played that he belongs.

I added the bold and underline for drama LOL...

I agree 100% with you. I could not agree more....(Which I guess is redundant but what the heck!)

The 36th pick over all needs to be someone who contributes, alot. I think it was a poor pick, because I don't see that happening. You are giving me hope that I could be wrong though, and I would love, love LOVE to be wrong. There will be no way of knowing whether or not he was worth #36 for sure until later in the season for sure....to see what he contributes and how much he plays.

There is also the size factor which does play a role in durability in my mind..Will he be able to take a lot of punishment if he plays as much you and I want him to...Will he be able to take NFL hits and keep on ticking if he plays as much as you and I need him to, to justify his value at #36.

Again, this can't be known until later in his career, but I think there were better ways to go that were less of a risk..and less 'gimmicky.'

If it was any team but Baltimore that took Kindle and Cody, I wouldn't be as pissed for passing on those guys. Newsome taking them means they are pretty darn good players. I love Berry and Asamoah picks. They are two future all-pros. Molkei is talented but he is Brodie Croyle of the Tight Ends. Million dollar talent, one dollar body. 5th round was solid. I love the OLB from Troy. It was a much metter draft but one that could have been better IMO. I love Arenas, but 2nd round was a little high for him. McCluster is a stud but I don't know for the Chiefs right now.

When it comes to projecting players from college to the NFL, you're going to be correct far more often than not if you project them to fail or not live up to expectations.

I hope that I'm not wrong in projecting him to be an immediate contributor. I'd have to think that Charlie Weis and Todd Haley had an enormous amount of input on this pick, especially since they passed over Golden Tate, so that gives me hope that he'll be a winning player.

Time will tell but I'm certainly not "down" on the selection.

:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Baltimore has the luxury of being able to take two questionable players due to their depth and success. Most teams can't take that risk defensively.

I thought I read that they're wondering if Asamoah is an option at Center.

If that's the case, maybe the plan is to have Lilja at LG and Harris or Brown at RG (future state).

Baltimore drafts like that every year though. Its why they have the most talented roster in the NFL, they just never had a franchise QB.

I know Studebaker, not really friends with him, but we have have mutual friends. FWIW, he's a really good guy and a hard worker, not that that's any surprise to you I'm sure.

Regardless, if they don't have a backup plan already in place not addressing the center position is simply unfathomable.

I'll take that response as you saying that Detroit does have more talent than us, mainly because they don't value leadership over talent.

At this point, they really are only missing a lockdown corner and a true LTOTF. Though it is entirely possible that Fox could become that guy.


My guess is that they'll win 5-6 games this year in a brutal division, and we'll win the same amount in a terrible division and playing a weak schedule.

It's amazing that the same 6-8 teams, who are drafting in the 20's and 30's almost every year are the best drafting teams.

Basically Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Indy draft really well each year.

It's true, which is interesting because I think they all have different draft philosophies. I think a lot of people like the Ravens because they seem to play the most of the traditional "board" that most NFL fans have. I think they really view things the way most of the hardcore draft fans here do.

Not that the Steelers don't, but I think they'll veer a little more off course, but seem to always take guys who were very productive. I feel like they'll take a very productive college player over someone who's a little more "hype" or who may have a question mark.

And the Colts just give everyone a big middle finger and pretty much do whatever they want. They don't play by anyone's board or analysis. But at this point they've done so well it's just gotten to the point nobody questions them anymore. Kind of a rare situation.

The Lions are only a corner and LT away? Really? The Lions right side of the line is terrible. Cherilus is awful. They have Julian Peterson at linebacker and that's it. They have Gunther calling their defense.

I just don't get all this Lions love. They have Calvin, Delmas, Suh and Stafford. I'm no Javid Best fan due to his concussion issues and size.

Baltimore drafts well because they take the obvious pick, big name guy falls, he pretty much always ends up a Raven. Their team comes up you go, hrm who's the best player left here? Baltimore takes him...

There's something to be said for being smart enough to just take the obvious pick instead of drafting bumble**** mcleadership from slapdick U because you must show how brilliant you are or value things that aren't talent.

So if Washington had taken Berry, we should have taken Okung correct? He would have been arguably the best guy on the board

That's an arguable point, what I'm saying is you never see Baltimore make picks like Tyson Alualu or see them take some guy in the 3rd round that everyone goes "uh who?"

Yeah, they don't ever do anything like draft tight ends in consecutive rounds.

Considering Todd Heap is made of glass and they don't have any real considerable needs...

time will tell.

I disagree.

I have seen far more of the kid than most here and I think I am pretty objective. By mid season, there will be multiple threads talking about how they are glad we did what we did to get this kid.

He is a better version of Visante Shiancoe IMO.

well, in this scheme the corners ability to cover deep in one on one coverage is minimized. Especially with Berry roaming back there. Quickness, preperation, tackling and ability to diagnose what is going on within the confines of the play are qualities that are definitely a premium over long speed.

I think he is a elite returner that should be a solid nickle corner.

"hes just a 5-technique, a position that holds little positional value"


Id like to throw out there that Dexter has played wide out in previous years extensively. Not lined up in the backfield and moved in motion, was a receiver.

shit just got real

I don't even hate Arenas but that other safety they took, I can't fathom what that guys going to do other than play special teams.

I don't generally pimp 40's but I do think they matter for DB's and WR's.

Exactly, just ask brandon flowers...oh wait
Posted via Mobile Device

He ran a 4.5 not a 4.8

Safetes are slower than DB's you fukcing idjiot

Safeties are DB's...say safeties are slower than CB's, it makes more sense.

Denver is already having nightmares.

who ran a 4.8?

I bet Kendrick Lewis is as fast as Darren Sharper.

The safety the Chiefs picked he ran a 4.72 and a 4.81, those are very poor times.

Ok Sharper was not that slow when he was a young player and generally an older player can use his brain to get by his speed declining, this guy might be a nice special teams guy I can't really see much more than that.

wow so now you are reduced to bitching about a 5th rd pick?
Posted via Mobile Device

We'll have to see. I don't know anything about the kid. I've seen a few scouting reports that say that he plays faster than he's timed and that while he doesn't have elite speed, it didn't look like it was a big issue. But no idea how reliable any of it is. I think no matter what, anyone you take at that area of the draft can be somewhat of a crapshoot.

Yeah Arenas is a much better returner than Spiller. Gie me a break.

If you look at the numbers?

PhilFree:arrow:

I'm absolutely shocked to see that this post was ignored.

Are we really going in this direction?

Like the picks? Great. Justify the picks? Cool. Make ****ing ridiculous comparisons and analogies? Please.

I'm hoping it was ignored because most of us know that anyone who questions you as a fan should be kicked in the nads.

I'm just waiting for a response to the person that repeatedly claims I'm not a fan of this team.

OTW isn't even a ****ing fan.

Just like he tries to prove his superior intelligence in his posts, he's using dollars spent to try to make us envy his socioeconomic status.

He's no Wes Welker.

Saying he will be an immediate contributor is one thing, I agree with that.

Previously, you were claiming he would be involved in 70% of the offensive snaps, I disagreed.

Then you changed to 67% of the snaps on downs 1-3...I disagreed

Now you are changing to say he will be a contributor.

I finally agree.


(I am down on the selection though, so I will continue to disagree with you on that part until he proves me wrong)

fixed

No, if we're making ridiculous comparisons, I'm Devin Hester, ****stick.

Take it where you want.......Poor post on my part. Still these were good picks even though they weren't what some expected.....


PhilFree:arrow:

Reading is fundamental, jackhole.

I'm far from the team's biggest fan, nor did I claim to be.

And the many people here that know me personally know that number to be accurate - they know I had season tickets for 5 years, and some have traveled with me to road games.

So kindly **** yourself.

It's Wexter McHestelker

This is the same post draft rationalization that took place last year.

Prior to the draft, and especially after day 1, NOBODY was saying - It would be great if Pioli grabbed McCluster and Arenas in the 2nd and made a move for a TE that spent more time on IR than on the field.

It was a good draft if you were a team that had a foundation. The Chiefs don't have one. Whatever happened to building a team from inside out?

Some of you guys really don't give an inch. Spiller is definitely more explosive but Arenas is one of the most prolific return men in the history of college football.

I've seen this take posted several times, yet I've found that no one is able or willing to counter it.

Go read pages 43-45 of the draft thread. It's comedy ****ing gold.

Everybody hated the pick until Mike Mayock said what a great pick it was.

Then people flip-flopped just like they did with the Cassel acquisition.

I'm Denzel Washington, so it's cool.

Are you black? Really?

OTW you sayin McCluster isnt a play maker?

no one gives a shit about how much money you spend on the team LMAO

Congratulations man.

Feel free to become a Ravens fan...I know I won't miss you.

I don't expect them to, ****hole.

Just pointing out your claims, as always, are bullshit.

Stick to gambling, watersports and rape. You're good at those.

When you have the league's 31st ranked run defense, use a 4th or 5th round pick on special teams. In the 2nd and 3rd rounds find a NT and some LB's to stop the run and/or generate a rush. Find a full time WR who can actually catch the ball when it is lobbed 10 yards down field. Take a chance on a RT who won't let your QB get shell shocked by week 10 so that on the rare occassion he does get time in the pocket, he doesn't melt down.

?

Uh, mind quoting the post that leads you to that thinking?