Yes I can. Because that team is 4-12 with Alex. Their best RB had 500 yards, and their defense wasn't close to elite.

Andrew Luck elevates his team. Alex Smith is elevated BY his team.

Luck hasn't arrived by he's a damn sight better than average.

In what world do the Colts have less talent on offense than the Chiefs?

???

Why is it, with that offense, it's ok for Luck to turn the ball over as many times as he did?

The Colts lost to all 4 elite teams they played in lopsided games.

Andrew Luck is not yet elite. And I'm tired of hearing he is and I'm tired of him getting excuses.

HE HAD 24 TURNOVERS THIS YEAR.

24.

He plays in the worst division in the AFC.

His stats are bloated because half of his games came against shit competition (20:2 against the shittiest teams on his schedule), and the other half of his games the games were so lopsided he played catch up and amassed a shit ton of yards and garbage TD's against prevent defense (see Denver, New England, Pitt).

They freaking kept him in against NE for no reason other than so he could extend his streak of 300+ yard passing games. It was a joke.

Stop quoting his stats as why he's elite. His stats are bloated and non-representative of the year he truly had.

He was arguably better as a rookie than he was this year.

Because Reid.

And last year Luck beat Peyton Manning and Russell Wilson in shootouts. His rookie season he did it to Rodgers.

That team is in the playoffs three years straight because of Andrew Luck.

Next year he'll probably be the best QB in the AFC.

That's ridiculous.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Ahmad Bradshaw was a more than competent RB this year for the Colts. They tried to go to a no huddle shotgun offense a quarter of the way through the season which proved to be ineffective since Andrew turns the ball over at a Mark Sanchez clip.

You can't compare the two teams because they run different offenses.

Andrew Luck >>> Alex Smith

Everyone knows that.

Andrew Luck is right smack dab in the Eli / Rivers tier. That's really good, that's not elite.

and people who think he's elite right now are grossly misinformed

Alex has only demonstrated that he can succeed while crutched with a good defense and running game.

I agree they have more passing weapons, but I don't think Alex could operate in those conditions either. When Alex throws 35 + times, KC was 0-5. When Luck threw more than 35 times the Colts were 8-3.

KC wins the less Alex does, and the opposite is true with Luck.

He's rising quickly, but I'm not sure there are 11 guys better.

We actually agree then. I'm not sure what the debate is.

QBR: 65 / 62 / 63
Turnovers: 26 / 14 / 24

That team isn't in the playoffs 3 straight years because of Andrew Luck.

They are in the playoffs because they share a division with Tennessee, Jacksonville and Houston.

Comparatively,

Eli Manning QBR: 69 / 37 (lol) / 71

Eli, who was ok in 2012 and 2014 (not elite), posted better QBR's than Andrew Luck.

Enough is enough.

No more excuses, no more crowning the guy. If he's not elite next year, then it's fair to say that, at this point in Luck's career, he's been really good, but nowhere near the hype.

I won't argue that. I believe he's going to be the premier qb in the league without question. The last month, he's been Chuck Pagano's Cancer...

I already did my 2015 QB 1 year rankings (they don't take young/old or future into account):

1. Wilson
2. Rodgers
GAP
3. Brady
4. P. Manning
5. Roethlisberger
6. Romo
7. Brees
8. Rivers
9. Luck
10. E. Manning

Apparently semantics.

and I can't wait for these playoffs

because the following guys do not have an excuse:

Rodgers
Brady
P. Manning
Luck
Romo

So I look forward to judging their respective postseasons without bias

The Colts are the most one dimensional team in the NFL. They don't even have the whiff of a threat of a running game. That makes things significantly more difficult for Luck. Their defense is also markedly worse than KC's.

Hootie is being duplicitous. For years he said there was no difference between Marvin Harrison and Eddie Kennison. Now, Luck is surrounded by talent because they put up big numbers with him? Which one is it?

Luck's line is worse than KC's (he gets hit more than any QB in football) his running backs are the worst in the NFL (KC has arguably the best), his primary TE is worse.

The only thing he has better than Smith are his receivers. His defense isn't in the same galaxy as KC's.

If you put 2014 Andrew Luck on this Chiefs team it's 14-2. If you put 2014 Alex Smith on the Colts they're 5-11.

omfg

this is ridiculous

Luck has a worse line than KC?

Dwayne Allen and Coby Fleener are really worse than Fasano and Kelce?

Ahmad Bradshaw was really that bad?

Shit, I'll give you Charles >>>>>> than anything Indy had. Bradshaw and Knile Davis were about a wash.

The receivers? Donte Moncrief probably would have made our team exponentially better, but that's on Dorsey. And I won't even mention T.Y. Hilton.

But I'm tired of guys like Luck getting excuses.

Why?

Why does he get an excuse because his offense sucked?

Peyton threw 55 TD's with an undrafted LT last year taking over for Clady. He was sacked his usual less than 20 times and took his usual almost not hits.

Luck takes too many hits because he holds the ball too long. So does Smith. So does Rodgers.

When people start realizing QB's who take sacks are ruining offensive drives where you only get about 10 per game ... they'll start to realize how valuable Peyton Manning really is ... a guy who never puts his team in a 3rd and unmanageable.

I'm so, so, so tired of Andrew Luck, who turns the ball over 20 times per year on average, getting pass after pass after pass because he was an elite prospect.

He doesn't do more with less than Manning or Brady. He's just not NEARLY as good as they are.

Peyton Manning would have still won more games with that Indy team than Andrew Luck.

Wanna know why?

BECAUSE HE'S BETTER THAN LUCK.

Peyton would have won between 11 and 14 games on all 32 NFL teams this year.

Andrew Luck regressed this year. That's not a great sign. He was supposed to be the next HOF once in a generation QB. He hasn't lived up to the hype. Right now, he's simply the next Eli Manning with mobility.

Stop making excuses for these guys. It's ridiculous.

QB's who get every excuse in the book:

1. Tom Brady
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Andrew Luck

It needs to stop. These three have no reason not to play lights out in this postseason.

I can't wait until Luck loses to Cincy, turns the ball over 2-4 times, and then everyone says, "well he's a 1 man team!"

Ahmad Bradshaw is a brokedick. He'd average 3 YPC in KC.

it's the equivalent to the drafturbators who screamed at the top of their lungs "BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE! BPA! BPA!" for years and years and years and then all of the sudden it's BPA at position of need, like overnight.

Make up your ****ing minds.

I can't wait until Dee Ford has 10-12 sacks next year. This place has always been all about pass rushers, we draft one, he sits a year to develop, and we're already writing him off.

Most pessimistic, unrealistic football fan board I've ever been on.

Alex Smith gets no excuses. People look at a stat sheet and read a name and Andrew Luck is just a 1 man team who has no other option than to turn the ball over 24 times while only making the playoffs because he gets to go 6-0 against his division year in and year out.

Luck is about 8-10 in the NFL. I'd love 8-10. No doubt about it.

Smith is about 12-18. Maybe right around 15.

Definitely sucks we can't get a top 10 QB, but Smith definitely isn't a bad NFL QB.

Bradshaw was excellent this year. The team fell off the cliff as soon as they lost him at RB.

He averaged 40 yards per game rushing and hasn't been able to stay healthy since forever. Four of the team's five losses came with him IN THE LINEUP.

You are overstating his accomplishments.

That team is all about Andrew Luck.

Peyton Manning went 6-10 in his fourth NFL season, threw 23 picks, and made a complete ass of himself in the process. Young QBs have growing pains, Ahmad Bradshaw gave the Colts all of 90 carries, I said that Kelce was better than any primary TE the Colts had.

Shit. Manning, with Edgerrin James/Marshall Faulk, Tarik Glenn, Marcus Pollard, Dallas Clark, and Marvin Harrison threw 81 INTs his first four years.

Over the last 2 years, what did this offense look like when the OL gave the QB and receivers a good amount of time to go through with a play? Not a big play. Just a little bit?

The Chiefs OL played very well the last 6 games of the 2013 season. This year, I'd say they played above average in three games this season: New England, Seattle and Oakland (at home). That's fair, is it not? They weren't all world. They were simply above average on those days.

Now, let's look at the points those teams scored in each of those games:

38, 28, 56, 45, 44, 7, 41, 24 and 31 those games. That's an average of 35 PPG.

Alex Smith's stats in those 9 games: 21 TD's/3 INT's.

This is the best possible way to have success next year. Get the OL resolved and add a receiver who can get massive chunks of YAC at any given time.

I'm guessing the only other QB with a 40-TD season in his first three years is Dan Marino.

well, yeah

I agree.

I thought Peyton Manning ****ing sucked until he obliterated us in the playoffs January of 2004.

and then I became his biggest mark

he broke me that year

Game set match. nothing else to talk about after this post.

Ah yes. That time of year when Alex Smith loses more than he wins.

Fond memories.

but comparing Peyton '98-'02 to Luck '12-'14 is ridiculous

the NFL is nowhere close to the same league

rookie QB's that have talent SHOULD come in and immediately dominate

it wasn't like that 15-20 years ago

and it's why guys like Bortles and Carr, to me, are just gonna suck

just like when I watched Gabbert year 1

those guys don't have it, and it's apparent to me

If only the defense didn't give up 30 PPG average in those last 7 games in 2013.

Did you know that was tied for last in the NFL? Fond memories indeed.

Alex: 3-37-1

Luck: 11-15

Remember, you hate Alex now. No going back.

Best. Post. Ever.

Telling it like it is.. when the OL is decent, Smith is all you need at QB. When the OL is consistently screwing up, Smith.. like 90+% of QBs will get hesitant or rush short throws to survive.

Fix the OL... add a good WR... fix the run D... and playoffs will happen.

so he's not allowed to flip flop, but you are ?

I would hope he would learn from my flip flop.

Don't let Alex fool you!

Manning came in and played very well in years 2-3, then regressed. Regression alone does not indicate that a player is terrible. He could just be having a bad year. Dan Marino had one too. Even if Luck is regressing, his regression year is with a far less talented team that has performed better.

I just don't think your criticism of Luck holds water.

11-15 against 24+ pretty much indicates Luck is going to be elite.

Only elite QBs are near .500 in that kind of situation.

I think Luck is a very good QB. I think he's Eli Manning / Philip Rivers good with potential to reach Tom Brady / Peyton Manning (obviously).

That's not the point.

The point is, he's already getting every excuse in the book. Look, if you want to say "yeah, he hasn't been great this year but he's going to be great!" Then sure, I can see that, too.

But this whole tripe about him being a "1 man team" and the Colts are only good because Luck makes them good I find to be ridiculous.

He has plenty of talent on offense, and more than enough talent around him to not turn the ball over 24 times. He played abysmal games on 12/7 against Cle and 12/14 against Houston where his play could have very easily lost them the game and lost them the division to Houston.

yet they won

and you are leading me to believe they only won because Andrew Luck was their QB?

It's just nonsense.

He was about the 9th or 10th best QB in the NFL this year.

He isn't some Tom Brady or Peyton Manning (yet) and frankly I'm tried of this whole "he's a 1 man team!" bullshit.

Because it's not true.

this whole 24+ points thing you reference is the dumbest ****ing reference point to QB success I've ever seen in my life

it truly is

it means NOTHING

Then why do the best quarterbacks have the best records in that situation?

Hmmmmmm

The only reason it gets poo-pooed is because homers wanted to scream up and down that it didn't define Alex.

But...it does. It says "when the defense falters, you can count on this guy."

Like most things, Luck is not as good as his breathiest supporters suggest, but he's also much better than you are suggesting.

He bears a heavier burden than any other young QB in the NFL, and you have to acknowledge that when looking at the statistics. He's not just throwing the ball through tires. Like a lot of tremendously talented young athletes, he takes too much on himself at times. That is something that a ton of QBs with flawed teams have done throughout their career (Favre, Manning, Marino, et. al). But before you bash him you also have to consider what causes him to press.

That team wasn't a 2-14 fraud like the 2012 Chiefs, who fell apart because of front office dysfunction and one of the worst coaches in NFL history despite having multiple great players; that was a terrible ass football team that made almost no other significant addition, has had an uneven draft and FA record since, and yet has gone to the playoffs for three straight years.

Honestly, I think that Indy team sucks. I think they are still one of the five least talented teams in football (people overrate total talent when looking at the skill positions, which is why people think the Chiefs are worse than their true talent level) who also happens to have the best young QB in football.

I said during the Sea-ATL playoff game that Russell Wilson was going to be a HOF QB, but I would easily take Luck over him for the Colts.

so Russell Wilson is 1-0 in his entire career in these situations

so since Russell and the Hawks shorten games with controlling the clock with their running game and having an efficient offense

he can't possibly be as good as Luck because his team doesn't get into shootouts due to inefficient drives, turnovers, and playing catch up once his team either gets up by 30 or falls in a hole?

It's just ****ing stupid.

Comparing the Chiefs offense to the Colts offense is so dumb because they are completely different styles.

The Chiefs try to emulate the Seahawks. Am I supposed to be angry about that?

What happens to Wilson without Lynch?
He is good, don't get me wrong, I just want to see how he will play with that running game.

What?

You can't read box scores now, genious.

He's 2-8.

That's a very small sample size though and not indicative of anything.

Alex Smith couldn't run that offense.

He is limited, so the Chiefs run their offense in a limited way.

You try to open it up with Alex you're going to get failure.

dude he took over Peyton Manning's team a year after they tanked on purpose to be able to get Andrew Luck

...

and if you want to talk about turnover, Dorsey flipped half of our roster last year and we started 9-0

it's just bullshit

it wasn't a "terrible ass" team any more so than the team Alex Smith took over for in 2013.

It's ridiculous. It's fans and media trying to stir this narrative that Andrew Luck has already arrived as the next face of the NFL.

well, ok ... but he better stop losing by 20+ in the playoffs to real elite QB's and he better stop turning the ball over 24 times a season and he better start posting QBR numbers in the mid 70's / low 80's

because enough is enough

He hasn't passed my eye test yet. He's good, not great. He's not off to any better start to his career than Andy Dalton was to his.

He's 1-2 in the postseason having two miserable losses against Baltimore and New England and he should have lost to KC had Reid not shit all over himself when we got up 28 behind Luck turning the ball over 3 times (and almost a 4th with a ridiculous goal line fumble).

I am betting pretty heavily on Cincy on Sunday.

but he is the running game

Lynch is JAG with a nickname

he averages 4.5 YPC in an offense that Russell Wilson has 850 rushing yards for

T.J. Duckett and Warrick Dunn always had career years as the Mike Vick RB tandem

Marshawn Lynch has the easiest job in the NFL.

Talk about overrated.

Lynch is incredibly overrated. He's an asshole with a cool nickname.

That doesn't mean I love Alex. The OL needs to be fixed whether it's Alex or a rookie.

Russell Wilson, Big Ben, Colin Kaepernick, Tom Brady. All four got drafted into offenses that were very well built and gave them a chance to succeed the first year they started.

That's what I want. Building for now and the future.

Comparing Luck to Dalton is not helping your case. That's extreme hyperbole.

Lynch is much more easily replaced than wilson is, but jag? Hmm. The guy does some pretty spectacular things sometimes.

He's a good power back in a system that is designed for him to excel.

I see no reason why, once he 86'd after the year, Michael/Turbin won't take over with almost no regression whatsoever.

I hate talking about WAR in football ... but RB's are just a dime a dozen position.

Denver anointed Bell as their starter, and he was truly terrible. Then Hillman, their 2nd string took over, and he was great. And then he hurt himself, and the 3rd string guy was the best of the bunch.

Jamaal Charles is an elite RB because he has elite speed and he can be an elite WR out of the backfield.

Marshawn Lynch?

He's worth no more than 0.25 wins to Seattle, tops. If that.

I don't know about the overrated part. That offense seems very different when he isn't on the field. I'm not a fan at all, but it sure seems like RW's job is a lot easier when he is on the field.

Why?

Because Andrew Luck is the best QB prospect since John Elway?

Luck has been better than Dalton thus far. But the gap between Andy Dalton and Andrew Luck is FAR, FAR, FAR closer than the gap from Andrew Luck to Tom Brady ... and people want to try and act like Luck is already in that elite tier of QB's.

He isn't even close.

so is everyone going to be super amazed next year when Christine Michael takes the NFL by storm!? And he's suddenly an elite RB?!

No coincidence, eh?

Andrew Luck is 1-2 in the postseason, has 2 horrendous performances in losses.

He did play well against KC, we all saw that ... you know, after his 3 picks dug them into a 38-10 hole.

but if you want to give Andrew Luck all the credit for the Chiefs epic collapse, then so be it. I saw it differently. I saw Reid shit all over himself while playing prevent defense PRAYING the game would just end ... instead, of, you know ... sticking to his successful game plan.

Andy Dalton has a far, far superior defense, OL, and running game to anything that Luck has had, not to mention one of the three best receivers in football.

In spite of all of that, he lost to TJ ****ing Yates and the 8-8 Chargers in the playoffs.

I liked Andy Dalton as a sleeper QB coming out, but he is ****ing awful.

Luck plays in a division with Houston, Jacksonville and Tennessee and has two terrible performances in playoff losses to Baltimore and New England.

He's got a home game against Andy Dalton. Looking forward to this one.

Switch the Colts and the Chiefs and do the Chiefs have two straight division titles with Alex Smith?

Couple that horrendous game management with the officials giving a clearly out of bounds ball to Indy, no - calls on defensive PIs, etc., and you had a perfect storm for Luck to come back in.

The announcers even talked about it before the game : "Andrew Luck has more 4th qtr comebacks than any QB in their first 2 years. Will we see 4th qtr fireworks from Luck & Co. tonight? ? Wild card playoff, KC at Indy Coming up NEXT'

So have we figured out if Alex can show progression just as Trent did past his 30s?

He regressed. LMAO

2003, 2004, and 2005 seemed to be Trent's best years.

For sure.

I'm talking about Alex.

Put Luck on the Chiefs and we are aiming at our 2nd superbowl title.

You couldn't be more wrong. Actually, your views on Rodgers and Luck are also horrendous.

A few months ago, Eric Berry wasn't diagnosed with cancer.

If you don't think that the Chiefs locker room was stunned emotionally, then you don't understand a thing about a football team.

It's still early in his brief career, but Luck has been more Philip Rivers than Tom Brady.

The difference is that you watch every or nearly every Colts game and Clay just looks at highlights and stats.

Not from my perspective. Maybe 11-5.

These receivers just stink. The ball hits them right in their hands and they consistently drop it. Short passes, intermediate passes, long passes. Kelce, Fasano, Avery, Hemingway, Bowe and Avant.

Awful.

And someone needs to challenge Kelce in the offseason to grow up and become a man. His stupid celebrations have cost the Chiefs time and again. He's more interested in hot dogging than completing the catch and preparing for the next play.

LMAO

I watch college and pro football all day every weekend.

We don't even really disagree, Hootie is just being Hootie and arguing for no reason.

To say Andrew Luck isn't special, or markedly separated from guys like Alex Smith, is just plain ignorant.

Only 8 guys in NFL history have ever thrown 40 TD passes in a year, and 6 of them are headed to the HOF.

It's really kind of silly to debate his career after 50 games when the guy will likely play in more than 200 before his career ends.

Andrew Luck is absolutely a special quarterback.

When did you start watching college football regularly? I seem to remember a point in time when you were just strictly watching the NFL.

Get as much time in as you can now. Once you have kids, you'll be lucky to watch your favorite NFL team on Sundays.

People aren't saying he isn't special, the message is more he isn't the Pope and isn't entitled to excuses that are forbidden other quarterbacks.

He doesn't need any excuses. He wins.

Four years ago. Why do you think I fell in love with Geno?

PS - never having children. In fact, I can't wait for the release of VasaGel.

Thank you!

It's too late. My genes have already been passed on via my niece.

I agree. And me calling him garbage is an unfair comparison to an elite QB which he's not yet. His play over the last month though, has been shocking.

Damn I just looked at his last 3 games and wow. How do you throw for 109 yards against the Dallas defense? I know they aren't horrible but they aren't that good.

He was yanked before the third quarter was over.

You bred your neice?

Same parents, same genes.