RIP Gibby.

Mo and Shildt have to go...don't even argue it Ramfan

Bounced from the playoffs on the same day Gibson dies. Jesus. :shake:

Shutout by a bunch of AWFUL relievers.

Damn, that sucks. RIP Gibby.

Damn, Lou and Bob in the same year?

Cardinals of my youth that I can remember off the top of my head

Bob Gibson
Orlando Cepeda
Juilan Javier
Dal Maxwell
Tim McCarver
Lou Brock
Curt Flood

Wow, that was forever ago . . .

Best pitching season ever.

In 1968, Bob Gibson started 34 games and completed 28 of them, with 13 of those being shutouts, and had a 1.12 ERA for the season.

So good MLB changed the pitching mound height the next season help the hitters.

38 earned runs in 304 innings is just adding to how good it was.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Cardinals fans watching Randy Arozarena play this postseason <br><br> <a href="https://t.co/x6RsiuETft">pic.twitter.com/x6RsiuETft</a></p>&mdash; Cody (@codelmendo) <a href="https://twitter.com/codelmendo/status/1320220836893253635?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 25, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Wonder if we can trade for this guy? **** you Mo!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here is a full list of players that have hit 10 home runs in a single <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/postseason?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#postseason</a> <br>- Randy Arozarena<br><br>That&#39;s it. That&#39;s the list. <a href="https://t.co/ZfnjtmU0oO">pic.twitter.com/ZfnjtmU0oO</a></p>&mdash; FOX Sports: MLB (@MLBONFOX) <a href="https://twitter.com/MLBONFOX/status/1321244985367429120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 28, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Look, Mo isn’t great, but let’s not judge a trade where we got a Top 50 prospect based off a 2 month hot streak by Arozarena.

Fire Mos pathetic ass

He hit at every level in the minors, hit in a limited sample in the bigs last year, and has beaten the ****ing piss out of the ball for the last two months. Meanwhile, Mo has paid Dexter Fowler about $54 million for 3 WAR over 4 years, whereas Arozarena has produced 1 WAR over 99 big league ABs.

I understand that, however the trade was for Liberatore, not Fowler.

So we trade from an area of need (#3-4 hitter) for an area that we have been well stocked for years (pitching).

Mo needs to go. Period.

Even if Liberatore turns out to be the real deal, there is still a serious issue with player evaluations in the front office.

So far, the two outfielders we traded away are prospering on other clubs. The ones we kept are under performing. Or if this is who they are, don't help the team win championships.

Again, I don’t want to come across as defending Mo, but maybe that signifies a fundamental flaw with the organization’s hitting philosophy?

All the coaches, trainers, etc. still all fall as a responsibility of Mo. He has to be able to self evaluate as well as evaluate all people within the organization. If he is not doing that properly then he has to be removed for someone who can do that properly.

Wong Gone!

The Cardinals notified Kolten Wong, a Gold Glove-winning keystone of their infield, they would not pick up the $12.5 million option on his contract for 2021 and that he would immediately become a free agent.

The motivation behind the move was to “create instant flexibility,” president of baseball operations John Mozeliak said, as they retool the team’s roster and reduce payroll. Mozeliak called Wong personally Wednesday to notify him of the decision, explaining that the shortened season with its nonexistent ticket revenue forced the team to make some uncharacteristic cuts. Mozeliak said he and Wong agreed to keep “the door open” for a reunion depending on how the free-agent marketplace and hot stove season evolves in the coming months.

Mozeliak says he plans on touching base with Yadier Molina and Adam Wainwright's agents this week but anticipates they will test the free agency market.

Good lord.

Billionaires crying poor. The american way.

I'm actually fine with letting Wong walk. His hitting regressed and in the home run era we are in, we don't need a field first 2B that his 1 HR this year. Unfortunately this is more of symptom of bad signings.

He is more than worth that option on a $/WAR basis. The team is just incredibly poorly run.

Hopefully letting Wong go is the first step in blowing this whole bitch up, but I think we all know it’s not.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Future Hall of Famer Yadier Molina has received calls with interest from both the Yankees and Mets plus 3-4 other teams in addition to the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> as I just said on <a href="https://twitter.com/MLBNetwork?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MLBNetwork</a> St. Louis is the likely favorite but in free agency you never know. Seeks a 2-year deal.</p>&mdash; Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) <a href="https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1326906416037302278?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 12, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Mo will bring him and Waino back and call it a day. That's probably enough sadly to keep his job

Perfect Mo move. Incremental safe measures that doesn’t get us closer to another championship. Why not give Ozuma $150 million to hit .230 while we are at it?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Per sources: Pirates closing in on a trade of Josh Bell to the Nationals.</p>&mdash; Jason Mackey (@JMackeyPG) <a href="https://twitter.com/JMackeyPG/status/1342181805655543809?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 24, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Mo still acting like it's 2012 lmao

:cuss:

I'm so ****ing disappointed in Dewitt. If you want Mo to keep the money rolling in fine and dandy. Make him President, CEO or whatever. But.........put someone, anyone, pick a god damn name out of a hat to evaluate talent, run the draft, sign FA's and decide which players to give long term contracts.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: The Padres have an agreement in place to acquire Blake Snell from the Rays, sources tell <a href="https://twitter.com/JCTSports?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@JCTSports</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Ken_Rosenthal</a> and me. Luis Patiño, Francisco Mejía, Blake Hunt and Cole Wilcox would head to Tampa. Deal pending review of medical records.</p>&mdash; Dennis Lin (@dennistlin) <a href="https://twitter.com/dennistlin/status/1343410402500042752?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 28, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

They aren't doing shit this winter, are they?

Didnt you hear? They offered low ball deals to Molina and Waino. Dewitt is broke again. :#

Mozeliak is ****ing clueless

Zzzzzzzzz

Wainwright is back. 1 year deal worth $8 million guarantees, not including incentives. Our first free agent signing of the year and the very last MLB team to do so.

Did we just trade for Nolan Arenado?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: Cardinals have agreed to acquire Nolan Arenado from Rockies, sources tell <a href="https://twitter.com/TheAthletic?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TheAthletic</a>. Deal pending approval from both MLB and players’ union; Rockies sending Cardinals significant cash, believed to be in $50M range, and Arenado will be deferring money.</p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/1355345919185743873?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 30, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Wow.

It's a game changa

Waiting for the other shoe to drop on prospects we gave up. Initially doesn’t seem like much.

Scott Rolen Part 2.

Holy shit, is this really happening?! I live in Denver and Arenado has been my favorite player for years. Always dreamt of him playing in St. Louis but never thought it’d be a reality! Rolen 2.0. Front office, thank you

There’s no way Mo pulled this off without giving up either Gorman or Liberatore, right?

Yeah-with Arenado’s contract situation I don’t think it’s much.

Really thought this was yet another leaked story to make it look like they were trying. With $50M being kicked in I’m a bit worried about how much they have up and haven’t seen anything on it yet.

Wasn’t expecting that. :thumb:

***Official 2020 STL Cardinals Thread***
 

So with the $50 million back, it’ll be less than $25 AAV, which is very reasonable. And the highest rated player we are trading away is number nine in our system. Holy shit, did we actually finally win a trade for a future hall of famer?!

Reports are Gomber, Baker, Torres. Not a whole lot to give up.

So I take it this is the end of Marp?

Anybody here know what we gave up other than this speculation from
Rosenthal?

Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
·
2m
Names possibly going to Rockies include LHP Austin Gomber, 1B Luken Baker, OF Jhon Torres. Return also might include RHP Jake Woodford or RHP Angel Rondón. Exact package not confirmed.

2B again. Batting 5th. :p

Was more excited than now.... It’s a 1 year deal. He retained the no trade clause and the opt-out after this season.


Rosenthal reports that if the deal is approved, Arenado will retain his 2021 opt-out and will receive another for 2022. He will also maintain his no-trade clause.

***Official 2020 STL Cardinals Thread***
 

Well if the economics the next few years are anything like the last few years, he won’t be opting out and we are good! His numbers will decline slightly being away from Coors so that may be to that advantage as well

Didn’t give up anything either

Good point. :thumb:

DeWitt can start building another condo building at Ballpark Village with the $50 million. ;)

:banghead:

What other moves are you going to make, though? Cardinals were terrible in scoring runs but your pitching wasn't that good either. Probably favorites to win the NLC now because everyone else is selling, but 2 of the best offenses in baseball are out west and one also has the best pitching in baseball and the other traded for 2 aces.

Our pitching staff underperformed last year, no doubt, but I expect a bounce back year overall, including Flaherty, who is pumped about this trade (which helps with future long term extension). We get Hicks back and have Liberatore and others waiting to come up. Hitting had been our Achilles heel since the days of Pujols and Holliday. I just never thought this would actually happen and not give up any of our top 8 prospects.

As a Rockies fan, I'm gutted. Nolan was literally the only reason for watching games these past few years. I'm glad that he'll actually have a chance to play on a winning team, but man...I'm glad I have the Chiefs, too.

As a used-to-be Rockies fan living close to Colorado Springs this closes my book on them. The Rockies moved their triple-A team away a couple of years ago and now they PAY 50mil to get rid of the best 3rd baseman that has played the game in a generation. They are the Houston of MLB.

Calling Arenado the best of a generation is a bit of a stretch. He is very good and for a couple of his years was the best but he is 4th in fWAR among 3B since 2013 when he entered the league. He is 3rd in fWAR since 2016 when he actually became a power hitter, solidly behind Jose Ramirez and Anthony Rendon.

Nobody plays the hot corner even close to Arenado. He gets errors on plays that any other 3rd baseman watches go by for hits. He might not be the best hitting 3rd baseman in this generation but as a complete player I stand by my statement.

JD is just pissed the scrubs are looking at 3 years of ~70 wins.

Inb4 5 paragraph shitfit

FG write up:
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/cardinal...kbuster-trade/


At 6yr/$199, he needs to be worth 25 wins to break even. ZiPS projects 17. So that’s why Colorado is sending the other $50m. Makes it a fair trade solely as a salary dump. The prospects are just filler on top.

Meh.

Saw this coming about 3 years ago. Theo kept saying things were going to change and moves were going to be made and didnt make any moves. Signed a couple high priced FAs and outside of Darvish none of his moves since Zobrist worked out. Didn't get any extensions done with anyone so now the Cubs are having to sell off what they can in the worst sellers market possibly ever.

I was kind of hoping that given the market of top tier SS next offseason that the Cubs would maybe work out a prove it type extension with Bryant and build around Bryant, Rizzo, and one of Story, Seager, or Lindor. But Lindor is probably going to get extended in NY, Story might get extended in Colorado depending on if he wants to win or not, and the Cubs are trading for guys that are 19 and 3-4 years away so it doesn't appear to be in the cards any more. But I would rather tear it down than sit in mediocrity and pray for miracles.

It's a great trade. **** those numbers.

Only thing I would be concerned about if I was a Cardinals fan is the part where the Cardinals didn't seem to want to pay guys like Wong who would be a really good supporting player.

I look at the Cardinals roster and all the ifs left to be answered and I cant help but think of the Phillies and what they've been doing with JT and Harper.

With the addition of Arenado, where do you play Wong?

Is there someone on the Cardinals that would prevent Wong from playing 2B?

**** Wong

Outfield if it gets rid of dexter fowler.

They still have Edman and whether the fans like it or not, Carpenter is going to get his share of playing time.

Thats a yikes from me. Lose defense and OBP with Edman and there's not much more to be said about Carpenter. Just doesn't make sense to go the cheap route and then make a trade for a guy like Arenado. Outside of Arenado and Goldy your entire projected lineup sucks ass when it comes to getting on base.

I'm assuming like Marco Polo said, that the Cardinals are probably assuming that baseball economics are going to keep Nolan from opting out.

Next year Gorman and Libatore will arrive. They seem to be the real deal. Nolan, Gorman, Carlson and Goldschmidt will be the best group of hitters in a lineup we have had in quite a while.

There will be a little bit of a defensive let down, yes, but albeit in a much smaller sample size Edman and Wong have a similar OBP.

Edmans ZiPS projection is like 310 OBP. Edman had a decent OBP his rookie year but he also had a 350 BABIP. With the exception of 2018, Wong has carried a 350 or better OBP since 2017.

There are suggestions that Wong is just a trainwreck waiting to happen as virtually all of his numbers have been declining at the plate for a few years. His xWOBA last season was just 286, but it was a short season and his trajectory was heading up, but it was also the lowest of his career in 2019 at 307 and 309 in 2018. But what are we talking about with Wong? Didi just got 2/24 so what's Wong looking at? 2/18? 2/20? I'd take that gamble to have someone that at least gets on base for Goldy and Arenado.

Ever since Edmans honeymoon phase ended his trajectory has been going down. He similarly doesnt hit the ball hard, like Wong, but he also lost 6 degrees on his launch angle last season and his trajectory is just nothing but a downward arrow.