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I don’t buy this WR’s aren’t getting open talk. Here’s Juju wide open. Nobody within 8 yards of him but Patrick misses him bc Wylie gets owned and Patrick bails bc he nearly gets sacked.
The timing and rhythm is off bc the OL got prison raped. Guarantee if the protection was better that’s a big gain. <div style="width:500px;max-width:100%;"><div style="height:0;padding-bottom:56.8%;position:relative;"><iframe width="500" height="284" style="position:absolute;top:0;left:0;width:100%;height:100%;" frameBorder="0" src="https://imgflip.com/embed/6uwb3l"></iframe></div><p><a href="https://imgflip.com/gif/6uwb3l">via Imgflip</a></p></div> |
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There's still obviously some disconnect between Mahomes and the WRs....and that was to be expected. What nobody was expecting was this offensive line to be shit. Part of that is Smith being injured. Part of that is OBJ and his struggles.
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I miss Tyreek too. I realize he wanted more money than the Chiefs wanted to pay, but it sure doesn't look like we gained anything in this deal.
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SOOO THIS. Thanks for taking the time to provide example. Another Argument is IF WR's are not getting open it's because the defense is dropping many back and just sending 4 man pass rush. Like many people say - "It all starts up front". This Oline has been very over-rated. Every completition Mahomes makes, the Oline gets looked at as positive... but in reality when you see what magic Mahomes has to make in order to make completions..... yeah. |
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Having a LT that can't handle speed rushers is like having a car with no drive shaft. |
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Mahomes is eventually going to be a much better QB without relying on Tyreek. Yet it will take the Oline not being turnstiles. |
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There are games where defenses don't change and every play flows beautifully into the next like the Cardinals game, but the games where a defense adjusts, we just look awful and unprepared. |
If we still had Hill, it would be the 2021 version of Hill, which was a 11 ypc WR, because defenses were going to drop 7 on every play and absolutely not allow the explosive play.
Which makes Hill not worth that kind of money. Which is why we traded him. Now, defenses are still doing that, and we need to make them pay, and a LOT of the blame goes to the OT position-BOTH of them, in my opinion-but some of that goes to Patrick too, as he really wants to get the yards in big chunks. He's going to have to learn to be more patient, and take the short stuff to open up the long stuff. The short stuff is often open, he just looks to the deep routes first and foremost. And we need to be able to run the ball. There are some schematic issues as well as some individual and group execution issues that are making that not work. It's still football, and the way it works in real life is still the same; just because you have Patrick Mahomes doesn't mean it's suddenly Madden. That being said, he was a couple of inches off on the deep throw to Watson, which would've been 7. And Kelce dropped a TD. And the throw to MVS was just an offline throw, but MVS was in fact open, so if those three make-able plays happen, we're having entirely different conversations today. |
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I'm not saying long-term we won't be better off for the approach we're attempting (though I'm not certain we will either; as I've said from the start, this is an experiment and a fascinating one at that). But we WOULD be 3-0 right now if we had Tyreek Hill on the roster. |
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Doesn’t change the OL getting wrecked with 4 DL or is being horrific running the ball. They would have doubled Kelce and Tyreek and still had 3 defenders covering the remaining 2 receivers. |
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See, keeping Hill changes everything; about the draft, and about free agency, and on both sides of the ball. Would we have done what we did with the defense if we kept Hill? Maybe, maybe not. Chargers gave us all we could handle. |
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We figured out how to make it work with Hill. We haven't figured out how to make it work yet without him. But the annoying part is this just isn't new. Cover 2 shells have been around for years and they went out of favor because they were beatable. Yet....we can't seem to beat them? I don't get it. There's something amiss here. |
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Look, I hate to say anything critical of Patrick, but the reality is that much like last year when we struggled, guys are open short, and he's not taking those throws. |
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I certainly don’t think they were expecting the defensive looks they got. I thought the first drive of the second half attacked it much more logically and efficiently, but they seemed to regress right back to the first half play calling after that. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Also..from Nate Taylor on Times Ours Pod:
“They are not gonna play rookies unless they have to. They’re playing Pacheco bc he moved the pile.” As in CEH and McKinnon can’t do that. FWIW Mecole was clearly playing hurt. He shouldn’t have played that game. Skyy should have got his snaps |
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Left a lot of yards on the table underneath. And given that the consensus right now is that he 'doesn't trust his OL' that seems especially odd. But I'll say what I've said for a couple years here - I kinda disagree with the consensus. I don't want this kid turning into Tom Brady - that's not where he'll excel. Shooters shoot - let him shoot. It's innate for him and its dangerous as hell. Before we traded Hill and I wrote a novel on beating the Cover 2, I banged on the "no, we do not need to just dink and dunk to get them out of Cover 2" drum over and over again. I still stand by that. You can beat Cover 2. You can even beat it deep. But you have to have more than one weapon out there. You needed to add MVS and Hardman TO Tyreek Hill. You need to challenge the corners more and put guys at decision points. Nobody WANTS to give up big plays and 'bend but don't break' isn't a new phenomenon. Teams have always attempted to make teams go about it the hard way. There's nothing novel to this idea. And we responded to it by making it even easier for them. The answer was not to get bigger and slower, IMO. It was to add MORE speed. It seems the front office disagrees. I guess we'll see. |
Here's my ungodly wasted of bandwidth on the matter.
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But on top of that we got mcduffie, skyy and kinnard. Mcduffie looks the part. Plenty of reason to be optimistic about skyy. It’s hard to say we did badly on this one. |
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First, take out the Raiders. Their dumbasses played single high in both games last year and got torched for it. They were the only defense that was stupid enough to do that. After the Titans massacre we had: Giants-20 Packers-13 Cowboys-19 Broncos-14…Sorenson pick 6 Chargers-34…in OT, 28 in regulation Broncos-21..Bolton TD return They got a terrible Steelers team and a Bills team with a decent (but not great) pass rush). I wouldn’t brag about the Bengals either seeing as how the Bengals completely shut them down in the 2nd half of both games. There were signs of it all year. And man I can tell you right now no team put that much pressure Sunday on Patrick Mahomes in his career except the Bucs in the SB. It was that bad |
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His ball placement yesterday was off, sometimes by a lot. |
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But even with him, we had several games last year where teams locked him down and completely rat****ed our offense. It's a little early in the season for this but I'm high as a kite and I've watched the All 22 like 6 times - the problem is Orlando Brown. It was Orlando Brown last year. Mahomes just isn't comfortable in the pocket, even when it's there. Orlando Brown simply has to go after this season is over. Wish we could have gotten rid of him in the offseason now. |
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As far as 'more speed', I mean, MVS and Hardman are both damned near as fast as Hill is. As good? no, of course not. But as fast? Yeah. I don't think we got slower at all at WR overall. Hardman and MVS are fractions of a tenth of a second slower than Hill, Watson is a 4.4 guy, and Moore is a 4.4-4.5 guy. All are faster than Pringle and Robinson. Hell, they're probably all faster than Sammy Watkins. He's going to have to prove he can patiently Brady teams to death before they stop dropping 7. Then he'll get his deep shots. So far, he's not consistently shown he'll do that. I love Mahomes, and I wouldn't trade him for anyone in football, but there's still some maturing to do there. He gets greedy and impatient. |
I just think....look, you're never going to turn Mahomes into Tom Brady. It's just not his DNA.
But defenses right now are forcing him to be patient, and take the underneath stuff and he's just not wanting to do it. The reality is that they're going to make him prove he can win that way before they change. I think it's obvious he CAN, but he'd rather go deep. Yeah, well, take what's there and deep stuff will open up. It's really just that simple. |
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This is what I fear for Patrick if our tackles don't improve in a hurry.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is why DL coaches hate the spin move <a href="https://t.co/zQKY97GzLr">pic.twitter.com/zQKY97GzLr</a></p>— Tony Shiffman (@CoachShiffman) <a href="https://twitter.com/CoachShiffman/status/1574782529776881666?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 27, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> |
I don’t understand the idea Reid won’t play rookies.
This year George and Watson are playing a ton. Chenel is getting snaps. Cook is playing a lot. McDuffie would be starting if not hurt. Last season Smith and Creed on OL started all season. Bolton also started last year. |
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MVS doing his job and utilizing his speed to pull the safety to the sideline opening up Kelce wide open in the middle of the field but there wasn’t enough time.
If the OL doesn’t shit itself we easily score 30 <div style="width:500px;max-width:100%;"><div style="height:0;padding-bottom:56.4%;position:relative;"><iframe width="500" height="282" style="position:absolute;top:0;left:0;width:100%;height:100%;" frameBorder="0" src="https://imgflip.com/embed/6uxzt1"></iframe></div><p><a href="https://imgflip.com/gif/6uxzt1">via Imgflip</a></p></div> |
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A HUGE problem. https://media3.giphy.com/media/j3IxJ...R7ZA/giphy.gif Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
The badass part about this team is that they will be better in the second half of the year because of communication and cohesiveness on both sides of the ball and we’re already good enough to hang with and beat really good teams.
This team is going to be on another planet by December. |
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I think if/when Pat has confidence in the OL and the WRs get open more frequently that will be 80-90% of it. But teams aren't going to let us be the 2018 or 2019 version of the Chiefs. So we're also going to need smarter play-calling, better coaching of the OL, good acquisitions AND an adjustment from Mahomes. If we REALLY hate the idea of him dinking and dunking his way down the field, and I kinda do, then we need to give him more time and better options. Some of this stuff can be fixed, at least partially, this year. Some of it is going to take off-season acquisitions and a rethink/shake-up of coaching, imo. |
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I think Reid is trying to adjust by installing more of a timing offense and while mahomes needs some work there, he also needs reliable targets. We need guys who excel at beating man coverage or press. Who can take some shots in the middle. Who will always wind up in the right place - two of those guys are brand new and mecole still makes too many mistakes to be dependable. At this point I actually think we need to give RoJo and Watson more shots. If what you’re saying is true then we need guys who can execute the basics. |
I think it's time for us...
To move on to the next game... |
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See what I did there? |
What sticks in my mind a little was the poor execution by Juju and Mahomes on the last play. Mahomes should not have thrown that ball.
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So who do you replace him with?
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Could try Christian there until he's healthy at least (if he's not healthy), after all, he is his backup.:shrug:
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Somone messed up and my bet is Hardman. Probably why Pat threw the ball expecting the pick.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Juju was not happy after the final play and was talking to Hardman, gesturing about the route.<br><br>This looks to me like Juju was expecting a pick from Hardman's route and didn't get it. And given the man coverage here it would've worked. <a href="https://t.co/V1pWLLKIgx">pic.twitter.com/V1pWLLKIgx</a></p>— Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/1574984945852108801?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 28, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> |
Tied for 3rd in the league with 10 sacks. The defensive rebuild is looking really good. Get Mcduffie and Gay back and by the back half of the season this is a top 10 unit easily.
Get the OL healthy and we're cooking. Just keep moving forward guys, it's oik. |
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That's really not the answer. Right now Creed is the only guy playing up to his 2021 performance. The unit is just looking pretty ragged at the moment. Shuffling the deck chairs isn't going to help much. |
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WR's were open, Mahomes just didn't hit them. Give him more time in the pocket and some trust in his line and it will get better. |
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If teams are able to rush four, get pressure quickly and stop the run because the Chiefs are tipping their play calls. How do they correct this?
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We have to solidify the LT position to something at least somewhat acceptable, let's explore our options as Pats blind side is KEY to the offenses woes.
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That Colts gameplan looked like Andy not wanting to put a ton out there and thinking that they could get by with the bare minimum. And it would have worked if STs hadn't ****ed it up entirely.
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I remember back when we could have 4 WR sets and didn't need a RB or TE2 in the game to chip or help the tackle.
Good times. |
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OBJ looks even worse on the all-22. We absolutely cannot afford to pay him the money he wants. I don't know what the plan would be for replacing him at LT, but a JAG making $5-$9 million per year would not perform much worse than OBJ making $20+ million per year. Sent from my moto g stylus 5G using Tapatalk |
Here's what it is...
1. The Oline isn't playing up to our high expectations, need to sure that up. Yes, a really solid RT would be great, but after that we might start looking at LT and wondering if there's a more solid option out there for the blindside as well. Not sure we're committed to paying OBJ big money yet. He's just not Trent Williams, who we really wanted, but hoping he can improve. 2. WR room is in flux, too many B or C level players and we can't find time for all of them. Vets are best fit for return duty, but we're giving that to Moore to get him some touches I guess. Next year I predict a more streamlined WR room, with clear rankings. Seems more likely we'd go DL in next year's draft so unlikely to pick a world beater imo. 3. RB room is a lot like the WR room, none are bad but nothing great has emerged yet. I'd trade the entire room for a stud RB like Saquan or Kamara. 4. DL isn't playing terrible, maybe a notch better than last year but still not putting you on the edge of your seat. Personally, I'd like to see us add Suh and we probably go EDGE in the 1st next year IMO. |
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I'm hoping the new RT is already on the payroll. That might be Niang, PTW, or even Kinnard. The team obviously thinks they have something in all 3 or they would be gone. No way should we pay Brown the money he wants.
I don't think the WR or the RB room is bad as some people think. We have MVS for the next couple of years, Watson will probably cheap enough to retain, Moore really hasn't had a chance yet, and Ross is on IR. The RB group is a little less clear, but until we decide what we're going to do in the run game, it's hard to tell what we have. Are we a Martyball team, RPO, or what? Sure we could use another edge guy, so could most of the teams in the NFL. I don't see exchanging Clark's boat anchor contract for another one as a wise choice. |
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Maybe Brown is injured worse than we thought. |
Again, if he's hurt THAT bad, sit him for a while and let him heal. Patrick's health is paramount.
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Ridiculous, especially, what, year ****ing FOUR in this offense? Quote:
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Reid needs to (boot Bieniemy and) get back to more of the pure WCO that his roots are in. Get Mahomes out of the shotgun so much (those draws from the shotgun off the RPO that go nowhere...), get him under center, go 12 personnel (Kelce and Fortson, MVS and JuJu) to get the BEST players on the field, and run an actual pro style offense. These defenses are susceptible to well-designed runs and seam routes the way they bracket the receivers deep. We have the personnel to take advantage of that. Why the coaching staff refuses to see that and put the players in a position to take advantage of weaknesses in the defense is kind of a mystery to me on some levels. |
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I’ll be glad when they flush that turd. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Scary, I know. |
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