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RunKC 09-27-2022 12:37 PM

I don’t buy this WR’s aren’t getting open talk. Here’s Juju wide open. Nobody within 8 yards of him but Patrick misses him bc Wylie gets owned and Patrick bails bc he nearly gets sacked.

The timing and rhythm is off bc the OL got prison raped. Guarantee if the protection was better that’s a big gain.

<div style="width:500px;max-width:100%;"><div style="height:0;padding-bottom:56.8%;position:relative;"><iframe width="500" height="284" style="position:absolute;top:0;left:0;width:100%;height:100%;" frameBorder="0" src="https://imgflip.com/embed/6uwb3l"></iframe></div><p><a href="https://imgflip.com/gif/6uwb3l">via Imgflip</a></p></div>

raybec 4 09-27-2022 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 16492506)
RONALD JONES

"In a so-far forgettable career, Jones had his most forgettable season — hitting career lows in all categories below. Additionally, he didn't improve his standing as a potential every-down option. Out of 97 running backs, he ranked 96th in pass block grade (12.4)."

https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-foo...ee-agents-2022

Not the worst!

The Franchise 09-27-2022 01:01 PM

There's still obviously some disconnect between Mahomes and the WRs....and that was to be expected. What nobody was expecting was this offensive line to be shit. Part of that is Smith being injured. Part of that is OBJ and his struggles.

TEX 09-27-2022 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 16492446)
I will say this. Not only am I ready to take Moore off of punt returns, I'm ready to take Pacheco off of kick returns too. He's not getting it done at all.

Exactly. Time for Hardman do both.

FringeNC 09-27-2022 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16492574)
The all-22 on this game is so brutal. I don’t even think it’s fair to our WR’s. There was very little time to develop plays.

Mahomes was moving to avoid pressure before routes could develop. ThTs how bad the OL was

The WRs aren't good, but Orlando Brown is the bigger issue.

LongSufferingToady 09-27-2022 02:03 PM

I miss Tyreek too. I realize he wanted more money than the Chiefs wanted to pay, but it sure doesn't look like we gained anything in this deal.

dannybcaitlyn 09-27-2022 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 16492638)
There's still obviously some disconnect between Mahomes and the WRs....and that was to be expected. What nobody was expecting was this offensive line to be shit. Part of that is Smith being injured. Part of that is OBJ and his struggles.

And the part of Andy ****ing Heck’s suckage on leading these guys! Developing a bunch of softies who get get blown off the ball every short yardage run play. Second year with the same group and they’re getting worst. I’d rather have Mike Munchak or Tom Cable that are available then the hack we have now!

Mecca 09-27-2022 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannybcaitlyn (Post 16492799)
And the part of Andy ****ing Heck’s suckage on leading these guys! Developing a bunch of softies who get get blown off the ball every short yardage run play. Second year with the same group and they’re getting worst. I’d rather have Mike Munchak or Tom Cable that are available then the hack we have now!

We run a finesse offense with several guys who are bad fits..

Molitoth 09-27-2022 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16492596)
I don’t buy this WR’s aren’t getting open talk. Here’s Juju wide open. Nobody within 8 yards of him but Patrick misses him bc Wylie gets owned and Patrick bails bc he nearly gets sacked.

The timing and rhythm is off bc the OL got prison raped. Guarantee if the protection was better that’s a big gain.

<div style="width:500px;max-width:100%;"><div style="height:0;padding-bottom:56.8%;position:relative;"><iframe width="500" height="284" style="position:absolute;top:0;left:0;width:100%;height:100%;" frameBorder="0" src="https://imgflip.com/embed/6uwb3l"></iframe></div><p><a href="https://imgflip.com/gif/6uwb3l">via Imgflip</a></p></div>


SOOO THIS. Thanks for taking the time to provide example.

Another Argument is IF WR's are not getting open it's because the defense is dropping many back and just sending 4 man pass rush.

Like many people say - "It all starts up front".

This Oline has been very over-rated. Every completition Mahomes makes, the Oline gets looked at as positive... but in reality when you see what magic Mahomes has to make in order to make completions..... yeah.

Mecca 09-27-2022 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molitoth (Post 16492839)
SOOO THIS. Thanks for taking the time to provide example.

Another Argument is IF WR's are not getting open it's because the defense is dropping many back and just sending 4 man pass rush.

Like many people say - "It all starts up front".

This Oline has been very over-rated. Every completition Mahomes makes, the Oline gets looked at as positive... but in reality when you see what magic Mahomes has to make in order to make completions..... yeah.

The line would be great if it was 1988...

Having a LT that can't handle speed rushers is like having a car with no drive shaft.

Molitoth 09-27-2022 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongSufferingToady (Post 16492774)
I miss Tyreek too. I realize he wanted more money than the Chiefs wanted to pay, but it sure doesn't look like we gained anything in this deal.

Do you not realize that.... "**** it Tyreek down there somewhere" STOPPED working in 2021 season?

Mahomes is eventually going to be a much better QB without relying on Tyreek.
Yet it will take the Oline not being turnstiles.

-King- 09-27-2022 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16492485)
I wonder if they didn't see Gus Bradley, expect a lot more single high and envision this as a get right game for the passing game figuring it could be a spring board for the new WR corps.

So again - Hubris. They just appear to have looked past Indy.

Past year and a half, whenever they get looks they weren't prepared for, the whole offense goes to shit. Isn't EB the guy that makes up the game plan during the week? It's like he thinks a defense will stay the same every week and when they don't, he has no adjustments to it. So now every play becomes "let's see if it works" instead of a piece to a bigger puzzle.


There are games where defenses don't change and every play flows beautifully into the next like the Cardinals game, but the games where a defense adjusts, we just look awful and unprepared.

Chris Meck 09-27-2022 03:19 PM

If we still had Hill, it would be the 2021 version of Hill, which was a 11 ypc WR, because defenses were going to drop 7 on every play and absolutely not allow the explosive play.

Which makes Hill not worth that kind of money. Which is why we traded him.

Now, defenses are still doing that, and we need to make them pay, and a LOT of the blame goes to the OT position-BOTH of them, in my opinion-but some of that goes to Patrick too, as he really wants to get the yards in big chunks. He's going to have to learn to be more patient, and take the short stuff to open up the long stuff. The short stuff is often open, he just looks to the deep routes first and foremost.

And we need to be able to run the ball. There are some schematic issues as well as some individual and group execution issues that are making that not work.

It's still football, and the way it works in real life is still the same; just because you have Patrick Mahomes doesn't mean it's suddenly Madden.

That being said, he was a couple of inches off on the deep throw to Watson, which would've been 7. And Kelce dropped a TD. And the throw to MVS was just an offline throw, but MVS was in fact open, so if those three make-able plays happen, we're having entirely different conversations today.

DJ's left nut 09-27-2022 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16492854)
If we still had Hill, it would be the 2021 version of Hill, which was a 11 ypc WR, because defenses were going to drop 7 on every play and absolutely not allow the explosive play.

Which makes Hill not worth that kind of money. Which is why we traded him.

Now, defenses are still doing that, and we need to make them pay, and a LOT of the blame goes to the OT position-BOTH of them, in my opinion-but some of that goes to Patrick too, as he really wants to get the yards in big chunks. He's going to have to learn to be more patient, and take the short stuff to open up the long stuff. The short stuff is often open, he just looks to the deep routes first and foremost.

And we need to be able to run the ball. There are some schematic issues as well as some individual and group execution issues that are making that not work.

It's still football, and the way it works in real life is still the same; just because you have Patrick Mahomes doesn't mean it's suddenly Madden.

But Hill can still beat drop coverages even underneath.

I'm not saying long-term we won't be better off for the approach we're attempting (though I'm not certain we will either; as I've said from the start, this is an experiment and a fascinating one at that).

But we WOULD be 3-0 right now if we had Tyreek Hill on the roster.

RunKC 09-27-2022 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16492864)
But we WOULD be 3-0 right now if we had Tyreek Hill on the roster.

I don’t think so. Again they dropped all 3 backers into the middle of the field, had cover 2/3 in the back and doubled them.

Doesn’t change the OL getting wrecked with 4 DL or is being horrific running the ball.

They would have doubled Kelce and Tyreek and still had 3 defenders covering the remaining 2 receivers.

Chris Meck 09-27-2022 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16492864)
But Hill can still beat drop coverages even underneath.

I'm not saying long-term we won't be better off for the approach we're attempting (though I'm not certain we will either; as I've said from the start, this is an experiment and a fascinating one at that).

But we WOULD be 3-0 right now if we had Tyreek Hill on the roster.

I don't know about that at all.

See, keeping Hill changes everything; about the draft, and about free agency, and on both sides of the ball.

Would we have done what we did with the defense if we kept Hill? Maybe, maybe not.

Chargers gave us all we could handle.

-King- 09-27-2022 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16492854)
If we still had Hill, it would be the 2021 version of Hill, which was a 11 ypc WR, because defenses were going to drop 7 on every play and absolutely not allow the explosive play.

Which makes Hill not worth that kind of money. Which is why we traded him.

Now, defenses are still doing that, and we need to make them pay, and a LOT of the blame goes to the OT position-BOTH of them, in my opinion-but some of that goes to Patrick too, as he really wants to get the yards in big chunks. He's going to have to learn to be more patient, and take the short stuff to open up the long stuff. The short stuff is often open, he just looks to the deep routes first and foremost.

And we need to be able to run the ball. There are some schematic issues as well as some individual and group execution issues that are making that not work.

It's still football, and the way it works in real life is still the same; just because you have Patrick Mahomes doesn't mean it's suddenly Madden.

That being said, he was a couple of inches off on the deep throw to Watson, which would've been 7. And Kelce dropped a TD. And the throw to MVS was just an offline throw, but MVS was in fact open, so if those three make-able plays happen, we're having entirely different conversations today.

If we had Juju with Hill teams wouldn't defend us the way they did last year.

DJ's left nut 09-27-2022 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16492882)
I don’t think so. Again they dropped all 3 backers into the middle of the field, had cover 2/3 in the back and doubled them.

Doesn’t change the OL getting wrecked with 4 DL or is being horrific running the ball.

They would have doubled Kelce and Tyreek and still had 3 defenders covering the remaining 2 receivers.

So...exactly what they did last year when we were the most efficient offense in football in the 2nd half?

We figured out how to make it work with Hill. We haven't figured out how to make it work yet without him.

But the annoying part is this just isn't new. Cover 2 shells have been around for years and they went out of favor because they were beatable. Yet....we can't seem to beat them?

I don't get it. There's something amiss here.

Chris Meck 09-27-2022 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16492917)
So...exactly what they did last year when we were the most efficient offense in football in the 2nd half?

We figured out how to make it work with Hill. We haven't figured out how to make it work yet without him.

But the annoying part is this just isn't new. Cover 2 shells have been around for years and they went out of favor because they were beatable. Yet....we can't seem to beat them?

I don't get it. There's something amiss here.

Well, I mean, we did until we didn't.

Look, I hate to say anything critical of Patrick, but the reality is that much like last year when we struggled, guys are open short, and he's not taking those throws.

crispystl 09-27-2022 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16492485)
I wonder if they didn't see Gus Bradley, expect a lot more single high and envision this as a get right game for the passing game figuring it could be a spring board for the new WR corps.

So again - Hubris. They just appear to have looked past Indy.


I certainly don’t think they were expecting the defensive looks they got. I thought the first drive of the second half attacked it much more logically and efficiently, but they seemed to regress right back to the first half play calling after that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RunKC 09-27-2022 03:49 PM

Also..from Nate Taylor on Times Ours Pod:

“They are not gonna play rookies unless they have to. They’re playing Pacheco bc he moved the pile.” As in CEH and McKinnon can’t do that.

FWIW Mecole was clearly playing hurt. He shouldn’t have played that game. Skyy should have got his snaps

DJ's left nut 09-27-2022 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16492919)
Well, I mean, we did until we didn't.

Look, I hate to say anything critical of Patrick, but the reality is that much like last year when we struggled, guys are open short, and he's not taking those throws.

Yeah, that was certainly the case yesterday.

Left a lot of yards on the table underneath. And given that the consensus right now is that he 'doesn't trust his OL' that seems especially odd.

But I'll say what I've said for a couple years here - I kinda disagree with the consensus. I don't want this kid turning into Tom Brady - that's not where he'll excel.

Shooters shoot - let him shoot. It's innate for him and its dangerous as hell. Before we traded Hill and I wrote a novel on beating the Cover 2, I banged on the "no, we do not need to just dink and dunk to get them out of Cover 2" drum over and over again.

I still stand by that. You can beat Cover 2. You can even beat it deep. But you have to have more than one weapon out there. You needed to add MVS and Hardman TO Tyreek Hill. You need to challenge the corners more and put guys at decision points. Nobody WANTS to give up big plays and 'bend but don't break' isn't a new phenomenon. Teams have always attempted to make teams go about it the hard way. There's nothing novel to this idea.

And we responded to it by making it even easier for them.

The answer was not to get bigger and slower, IMO. It was to add MORE speed.

It seems the front office disagrees. I guess we'll see.

DJ's left nut 09-27-2022 04:02 PM

Here's my ungodly wasted of bandwidth on the matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16198376)
Spoiler!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16198444)
Spoiling this due to freakish length after seeing Pest quote it:

Spoiler!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16198484)
Spoiler!

I just wish we'd have taken this a different direction. I'd have doubled down on what we did well rather than trying to pivot into improving at things we don't.

chiefzilla1501 09-27-2022 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16492854)
If we still had Hill, it would be the 2021 version of Hill, which was a 11 ypc WR, because defenses were going to drop 7 on every play and absolutely not allow the explosive play.

Which makes Hill not worth that kind of money. Which is why we traded him.

Now, defenses are still doing that, and we need to make them pay, and a LOT of the blame goes to the OT position-BOTH of them, in my opinion-but some of that goes to Patrick too, as he really wants to get the yards in big chunks. He's going to have to learn to be more patient, and take the short stuff to open up the long stuff. The short stuff is often open, he just looks to the deep routes first and foremost.

And we need to be able to run the ball. There are some schematic issues as well as some individual and group execution issues that are making that not work.

It's still football, and the way it works in real life is still the same; just because you have Patrick Mahomes doesn't mean it's suddenly Madden.

That being said, he was a couple of inches off on the deep throw to Watson, which would've been 7. And Kelce dropped a TD. And the throw to MVS was just an offline throw, but MVS was in fact open, so if those three make-able plays happen, we're having entirely different conversations today.

And in fairness we haven’t had time to replace him. Of course hill vs no replacement is going to feel like a step down. We will put that $22m we would have spent on him to very good use someday.

But on top of that we got mcduffie, skyy and kinnard. Mcduffie looks the part. Plenty of reason to be optimistic about skyy. It’s hard to say we did badly on this one.

RunKC 09-27-2022 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16492917)
So...exactly what they did last year when we were the most efficient offense in football in the 2nd half?

We figured out how to make it work with Hill. We haven't figured out how to make it work yet without him.

But the annoying part is this just isn't new. Cover 2 shells have been around for years and they went out of favor because they were beatable. Yet....we can't seem to beat them?

I don't get it. There's something amiss here.

They weren’t as effective as you make it out to be.

First, take out the Raiders. Their dumbasses played single high in both games last year and got torched for it. They were the only defense that was stupid enough to do that.

After the Titans massacre we had:

Giants-20
Packers-13
Cowboys-19
Broncos-14…Sorenson pick 6
Chargers-34…in OT, 28 in regulation
Broncos-21..Bolton TD return

They got a terrible Steelers team and a Bills team with a decent (but not great) pass rush). I wouldn’t brag about the Bengals either seeing as how the Bengals completely shut them down in the 2nd half of both games.

There were signs of it all year. And man I can tell you right now no team put that much pressure Sunday on Patrick Mahomes in his career except the Bucs in the SB.

It was that bad

htismaqe 09-27-2022 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 16492506)
RONALD JONES

"In a so-far forgettable career, Jones had his most forgettable season — hitting career lows in all categories below. Additionally, he didn't improve his standing as a potential every-down option. Out of 97 running backs, he ranked 96th in pass block grade (12.4)."

https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-foo...ee-agents-2022

My bad, I thought you were talking about Clyde. :thumb:

htismaqe 09-27-2022 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16492919)
Well, I mean, we did until we didn't.

Look, I hate to say anything critical of Patrick, but the reality is that much like last year when we struggled, guys are open short, and he's not taking those throws.

He's not just not taking them, he's not MAKING them either.

His ball placement yesterday was off, sometimes by a lot.

htismaqe 09-27-2022 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16492932)
Yeah, that was certainly the case yesterday.

Left a lot of yards on the table underneath. And given that the consensus right now is that he 'doesn't trust his OL' that seems especially odd.

But I'll say what I've said for a couple years here - I kinda disagree with the consensus. I don't want this kid turning into Tom Brady - that's not where he'll excel.

Shooters shoot - let him shoot. It's innate for him and its dangerous as hell. Before we traded Hill and I wrote a novel on beating the Cover 2, I banged on the "no, we do not need to just dink and dunk to get them out of Cover 2" drum over and over again.

I still stand by that. You can beat Cover 2. You can even beat it deep. But you have to have more than one weapon out there. You needed to add MVS and Hardman TO Tyreek Hill. You need to challenge the corners more and put guys at decision points. Nobody WANTS to give up big plays and 'bend but don't break' isn't a new phenomenon. Teams have always attempted to make teams go about it the hard way. There's nothing novel to this idea.

And we responded to it by making it even easier for them.

The answer was not to get bigger and slower, IMO. It was to add MORE speed.

It seems the front office disagrees. I guess we'll see.

They added a shit ton more speed to the defense. The offensive moves don't seem to make any sense in that context.

htismaqe 09-27-2022 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16492941)
They weren’t as effective as you make it out to be.

First, take out the Raiders. Their dumbasses played single high in both games last year and got torched for it. They were the only defense that was stupid enough to do that.

After the Titans massacre we had:

Giants-20
Packers-13
Cowboys-19
Broncos-14…Sorenson pick 6
Chargers-34…in OT, 28 in regulation
Broncos-21..Bolton TD return

They got a terrible Steelers team and a Bills team with a decent (but not great) pass rush). I wouldn’t brag about the Bengals either seeing as how the Bengals completely shut them down in the 2nd half of both games.

There were signs of it all year. And man I can tell you right now no team put that much pressure Sunday on Patrick Mahomes in his career except the Bucs in the SB.

It was that bad

Dude I said it a few hours ago - that game on Sunday looked just like the team from last year. They've looked like this shit offense even WITH Tyreek Hill. I'm not here to argue about Hill - he's a generational player. Enough said.

But even with him, we had several games last year where teams locked him down and completely rat****ed our offense.

It's a little early in the season for this but I'm high as a kite and I've watched the All 22 like 6 times - the problem is Orlando Brown. It was Orlando Brown last year. Mahomes just isn't comfortable in the pocket, even when it's there.

Orlando Brown simply has to go after this season is over. Wish we could have gotten rid of him in the offseason now.

Chris Meck 09-27-2022 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16492932)
Yeah, that was certainly the case yesterday.

Left a lot of yards on the table underneath. And given that the consensus right now is that he 'doesn't trust his OL' that seems especially odd.

But I'll say what I've said for a couple years here - I kinda disagree with the consensus. I don't want this kid turning into Tom Brady - that's not where he'll excel.

Shooters shoot - let him shoot. It's innate for him and its dangerous as hell. Before we traded Hill and I wrote a novel on beating the Cover 2, I banged on the "no, we do not need to just dink and dunk to get them out of Cover 2" drum over and over again.

I still stand by that. You can beat Cover 2. You can even beat it deep. But you have to have more than one weapon out there. You needed to add MVS and Hardman TO Tyreek Hill. You need to challenge the corners more and put guys at decision points. Nobody WANTS to give up big plays and 'bend but don't break' isn't a new phenomenon. Teams have always attempted to make teams go about it the hard way. There's nothing novel to this idea.

And we responded to it by making it even easier for them.

The answer was not to get bigger and slower, IMO. It was to add MORE speed.

It seems the front office disagrees. I guess we'll see.

Well, I think he's going to have to prove he CAN be Tom Brady, when it's required, and until the defenses stop sitting back and denying his Mahomes'ness.

As far as 'more speed', I mean, MVS and Hardman are both damned near as fast as Hill is. As good? no, of course not. But as fast? Yeah.

I don't think we got slower at all at WR overall. Hardman and MVS are fractions of a tenth of a second slower than Hill, Watson is a 4.4 guy, and Moore is a 4.4-4.5 guy. All are faster than Pringle and Robinson. Hell, they're probably all faster than Sammy Watkins.

He's going to have to prove he can patiently Brady teams to death before they stop dropping 7. Then he'll get his deep shots. So far, he's not consistently shown he'll do that.

I love Mahomes, and I wouldn't trade him for anyone in football, but there's still some maturing to do there. He gets greedy and impatient.

Chris Meck 09-27-2022 05:12 PM

I just think....look, you're never going to turn Mahomes into Tom Brady. It's just not his DNA.

But defenses right now are forcing him to be patient, and take the underneath stuff and he's just not wanting to do it.

The reality is that they're going to make him prove he can win that way before they change.

I think it's obvious he CAN, but he'd rather go deep.

Yeah, well, take what's there and deep stuff will open up.

It's really just that simple.

FringeNC 09-27-2022 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 16492989)
Dude I said it a few hours ago - that game on Sunday looked just like the team from last year. They've looked like this shit offense even WITH Tyreek Hill. I'm not here to argue about Hill - he's a generational player. Enough said.

But even with him, we had several games last year where teams locked him down and completely rat****ed our offense.

It's a little early in the season for this but I'm high as a kite and I've watched the All 22 like 6 times - the problem is Orlando Brown. It was Orlando Brown last year. Mahomes just isn't comfortable in the pocket, even when it's there.

Orlando Brown simply has to go after this season is over. Wish we could have gotten rid of him in the offseason now.

On his good days, he's a league average pass blocker. Whether it was his knee injury or not on Sunday, you can't have pass protection like that at LT and expect to score a lot of points.

srvy 09-27-2022 06:41 PM

This is what I fear for Patrick if our tackles don't improve in a hurry.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is why DL coaches hate the spin move <a href="https://t.co/zQKY97GzLr">pic.twitter.com/zQKY97GzLr</a></p>&mdash; Tony Shiffman (@CoachShiffman) <a href="https://twitter.com/CoachShiffman/status/1574782529776881666?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 27, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Marcellus 09-27-2022 06:48 PM

I don’t understand the idea Reid won’t play rookies.

This year George and Watson are playing a ton. Chenel is getting snaps. Cook is playing a lot. McDuffie would be starting if not hurt.

Last season Smith and Creed on OL started all season.

Bolton also started last year.

staylor26 09-27-2022 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 16493153)
I don’t understand the idea Reid won’t play rookies.

This year George and Watson are playing a ton. Chenel is getting snaps. Cook is playing a lot. McDuffie would be starting if not hurt.

Last season Smith and Creed on OL started all season.

Bolton also started last year.

We're not talking about defense, or even every offensive position. Specifically WR and RB (add QB to that list too)

RunKC 09-27-2022 08:49 PM

MVS doing his job and utilizing his speed to pull the safety to the sideline opening up Kelce wide open in the middle of the field but there wasn’t enough time.

If the OL doesn’t shit itself we easily score 30

<div style="width:500px;max-width:100%;"><div style="height:0;padding-bottom:56.4%;position:relative;"><iframe width="500" height="282" style="position:absolute;top:0;left:0;width:100%;height:100%;" frameBorder="0" src="https://imgflip.com/embed/6uxzt1"></iframe></div><p><a href="https://imgflip.com/gif/6uxzt1">via Imgflip</a></p></div>

htismaqe 09-27-2022 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16493298)
MVS doing bud job and utilizing his speed to pull the safety to the sideline opening up Kelce wide open in the middle of the field but there wasn’t enough time.

If the OL doesn’t shit itself we easily score 30

<div style="width:500px;max-width:100%;"><div style="height:0;padding-bottom:56.4%;position:relative;"><iframe width="500" height="282" style="position:absolute;top:0;left:0;width:100%;height:100%;" frameBorder="0" src="https://imgflip.com/embed/6uxzt1"></iframe></div><p><a href="https://imgflip.com/gif/6uxzt1">via Imgflip</a></p></div>

Yep. The WRs weren’t terrible but the line was.

KChiefs1 09-27-2022 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 16492427)
I've made it through the 1st half. The line is a huge problem.


A HUGE problem.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/j3IxJ...R7ZA/giphy.gif


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BossChief 09-28-2022 12:17 AM

The badass part about this team is that they will be better in the second half of the year because of communication and cohesiveness on both sides of the ball and we’re already good enough to hang with and beat really good teams.

This team is going to be on another planet by December.

JPH83 09-28-2022 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16493024)
I just think....look, you're never going to turn Mahomes into Tom Brady. It's just not his DNA.

But defenses right now are forcing him to be patient, and take the underneath stuff and he's just not wanting to do it.

The reality is that they're going to make him prove he can win that way before they change.

I think it's obvious he CAN, but he'd rather go deep.

Yeah, well, take what's there and deep stuff will open up.

It's really just that simple.

It's a bit of everything. The OL has been poor the last 3 games and the WRs have not been great, but Pat was doing some of this last year with Hill and a better functioning OL. Not seeing people who are open, occasionally becoming tunnel-visioned and forcing things.

I think if/when Pat has confidence in the OL and the WRs get open more frequently that will be 80-90% of it. But teams aren't going to let us be the 2018 or 2019 version of the Chiefs. So we're also going to need smarter play-calling, better coaching of the OL, good acquisitions AND an adjustment from Mahomes. If we REALLY hate the idea of him dinking and dunking his way down the field, and I kinda do, then we need to give him more time and better options.

Some of this stuff can be fixed, at least partially, this year. Some of it is going to take off-season acquisitions and a rethink/shake-up of coaching, imo.

JPH83 09-28-2022 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 16493471)
The badass part about this team is that they will be better in the second half of the year because of communication and cohesiveness on both sides of the ball and we’re already good enough to hang with and beat really good teams.

This team is going to be on another planet by December.

I am looking forward to seeing how the defence grows, that's the real positive for me. The sky's the limit.

chiefzilla1501 09-28-2022 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 16493153)
I don’t understand the idea Reid won’t play rookies.

This year George and Watson are playing a ton. Chenel is getting snaps. Cook is playing a lot. McDuffie would be starting if not hurt.

Last season Smith and Creed on OL started all season.

Bolton also started last year.

It’s not that he won’t play rookies. He is reluctant to play rookie receivers. It’s not just rookies. It’s also veterans who just joined the team.

chiefzilla1501 09-28-2022 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16493017)
Well, I think he's going to have to prove he CAN be Tom Brady, when it's required, and until the defenses stop sitting back and denying his Mahomes'ness.

As far as 'more speed', I mean, MVS and Hardman are both damned near as fast as Hill is. As good? no, of course not. But as fast? Yeah.

I don't think we got slower at all at WR overall. Hardman and MVS are fractions of a tenth of a second slower than Hill, Watson is a 4.4 guy, and Moore is a 4.4-4.5 guy. All are faster than Pringle and Robinson. Hell, they're probably all faster than Sammy Watkins.

He's going to have to prove he can patiently Brady teams to death before they stop dropping 7. Then he'll get his deep shots. So far, he's not consistently shown he'll do that.

I love Mahomes, and I wouldn't trade him for anyone in football, but there's still some maturing to do there. He gets greedy and impatient.

I mean, I’m kind of with you, but to do that you have to have personnel who can do that. I don’t think mahomes trusts his guys and for good reason. To do that we have to run with precision. And you have to have WRs who can make the tough catch. I don’t think Hardman does either of those things. We saw on the last INT jujus frustration because Hardman ran an awful route. Weve seen mahomes frustratedly point to holes because ceh is stutter stepping into the wrong spot. Mecole and mvs are built to go deep or under, not necessarily grind for quick hits with precise routes, and we line them up right next to each other. And mvs isn’t bad at those things but that’s not what he was built for. You can’t have both these guys on the field to run the offense you think we need to run. Not even getting into the OL which can’t hold their blocks. This offense needs to be about timing and we don’t have the horses to do that.

I think Reid is trying to adjust by installing more of a timing offense and while mahomes needs some work there, he also needs reliable targets. We need guys who excel at beating man coverage or press. Who can take some shots in the middle. Who will always wind up in the right place - two of those guys are brand new and mecole still makes too many mistakes to be dependable. At this point I actually think we need to give RoJo and Watson more shots. If what you’re saying is true then we need guys who can execute the basics.

crayzkirk 09-28-2022 06:55 AM

I think it's time for us...

To move on to the next game...

TEX 09-28-2022 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 16493533)
I mean, I’m kind of with you, but to do that you have to have personnel who can do that. I don’t think mahomes trusts his guys and for good reason. To do that we have to run with precision. And you have to have WRs who can make the tough catch. I don’t think Hardman does either of those things. We saw on the last INT jujus frustration because Hardman ran an awful route. Weve seen mahomes frustratedly point to holes because ceh is stutter stepping into the wrong spot. Mecole and mvs are built to go deep or under, not necessarily grind for quick hits with precise routes, and we line them up right next to each other. And mvs isn’t bad at those things but that’s not what he was built for. You can’t have both these guys on the field to run the offense you think we need to run. Not even getting into the OL which can’t hold their blocks. This offense needs to be about timing and we don’t have the horses to do that.

I think Reid is trying to adjust by installing more of a timing offense and while mahomes needs some work there, he also needs reliable targets. We need guys who excel at beating man coverage or press. Who can take some shots in the middle. Who will always wind up in the right place - two of those guys are brand new and mecole still makes too many mistakes to be dependable. At this point I actually think we need to give RoJo and Watson more shots. If what you’re saying is true then we need guys who can execute the basics.

If the OL could block better, a lot of the stuff you mentioned gets cleaned up. And I'm with you with giving RoJo and Watson more shots.

TEX 09-28-2022 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crayzkirk (Post 16493594)
I think it's time for us...

To move on to the next game...

The problems from the last game will follow...Any team with a good DL will give KC fits until the OL gets it's shit together. Tampa has a good DL.
See what I did there?

Chiefnj2 09-28-2022 07:29 AM

What sticks in my mind a little was the poor execution by Juju and Mahomes on the last play. Mahomes should not have thrown that ball.

FringeNC 09-28-2022 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX (Post 16493606)
The problems from the last game will follow...Any team with a good DL will give KC fits until the OL gets it's shit together. Tampa has a good DL.
See what I did there?

I tend to agree but the NFL is a funny thing -- you can play the same team twice and the second game goes nothing like the first. A line can be dominant then suck. I wouldn't be shocked if the offense looks great but don't think it's likely. If Brown and the OL get dominated anywhere to the extent they did against Indy, it probably is time to hit the panic button though and consider benching Brown.

R Clark 09-28-2022 07:34 AM

So who do you replace him with?

FringeNC 09-28-2022 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Clark (Post 16493629)
So who do you replace him with?

Slide Thuney over. Brown's pass protection was totally unacceptable against Indy. Scrubs could do better.

PHOG 09-28-2022 08:04 AM

Could try Christian there until he's healthy at least (if he's not healthy), after all, he is his backup.:shrug:

dirk digler 09-28-2022 08:17 AM

Somone messed up and my bet is Hardman. Probably why Pat threw the ball expecting the pick.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Juju was not happy after the final play and was talking to Hardman, gesturing about the route.<br><br>This looks to me like Juju was expecting a pick from Hardman&#39;s route and didn&#39;t get it. And given the man coverage here it would&#39;ve worked. <a href="https://t.co/V1pWLLKIgx">pic.twitter.com/V1pWLLKIgx</a></p>&mdash; Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/1574984945852108801?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 28, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

O.city 09-28-2022 08:47 AM

Tied for 3rd in the league with 10 sacks. The defensive rebuild is looking really good. Get Mcduffie and Gay back and by the back half of the season this is a top 10 unit easily.

Get the OL healthy and we're cooking. Just keep moving forward guys, it's oik.

DJ's left nut 09-28-2022 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 16493645)
Slide Thuney over. Brown's pass protection was totally unacceptable against Indy. Scrubs could do better.

Thuney isn't at the level he was last year, either.

That's really not the answer.

Right now Creed is the only guy playing up to his 2021 performance. The unit is just looking pretty ragged at the moment. Shuffling the deck chairs isn't going to help much.

The Franchise 09-28-2022 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16493753)
Thuney isn't at the level he was last year, either.

That's really not the answer.

Right now Creed is the only guy playing up to his 2021 performance. The unit is just looking pretty ragged at the moment. Shuffling the deck chairs isn't going to help much.

And Reid won't....outside of people getting seriously injured.

lcarus 09-28-2022 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 16493736)
Tied for 3rd in the league with 10 sacks. The defensive rebuild is looking really good. Get Mcduffie and Gay back and by the back half of the season this is a top 10 unit easily.

Get the OL healthy and we're cooking. Just keep moving forward guys, it's oik.

It's amazing how just getting rid of all that dead weight and complacency can revitalize a unit. Hitchens, Honey Badger, Dirty Dan, Okafor, Jarran Reed, Ben Neimann, Hughes. Even Charvarius Ward who wasn't a bad CB. Veach cleaned house and it looks nice.

htismaqe 09-28-2022 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX (Post 16493601)
If the OL could block better, a lot of the stuff you mentioned gets cleaned up. And I'm with you with giving RoJo and Watson more shots.

Yep.

WR's were open, Mahomes just didn't hit them. Give him more time in the pocket and some trust in his line and it will get better.

htismaqe 09-28-2022 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Clark (Post 16493629)
So who do you replace him with?

It doesn't matter. If he's playing this bad, replace him with one of the young guys. But if he continues to play like this, he HAS to be benched, regardless of what the backup plan might be.

crayzkirk 09-28-2022 10:57 AM

If teams are able to rush four, get pressure quickly and stop the run because the Chiefs are tipping their play calls. How do they correct this?

htismaqe 09-28-2022 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crayzkirk (Post 16494026)
If teams are able to rush four, get pressure quickly and stop the run because the Chiefs are tipping their play calls. How do they correct this?

Change their play calls? They're way too predictable right now.

Imon Yourside 09-28-2022 11:03 AM

We have to solidify the LT position to something at least somewhat acceptable, let's explore our options as Pats blind side is KEY to the offenses woes.

The Franchise 09-28-2022 11:06 AM

That Colts gameplan looked like Andy not wanting to put a ton out there and thinking that they could get by with the bare minimum. And it would have worked if STs hadn't ****ed it up entirely.

TEX 09-28-2022 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lcarus (Post 16493814)
It's amazing how just getting rid of all that dead weight and complacency can revitalize a unit. Hitchens, Honey Badger, Dirty Dan, Okafor, Jarran Reed, Ben Neimann, Hughes. Even Charvarius Ward who wasn't a bad CB. Veach cleaned house and it looks nice.

Yep. Next he needs to do the same with the OL and get rid of the dead weight at both Tackle positions. Give Mahomes time to throw and see what happens. I'm hoping they can make some kind of adjustment now with guys on the roster. Doubt it happens at LT, but it should.

TEX 09-28-2022 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 16494053)
That Colts gameplan looked like Andy not wanting to put a ton out there and thinking that they could get by with the bare minimum. And it would have worked if STs hadn't ****ed it up entirely.

Sure did. Shoot, it almost worked even with all the Special Teams **** ups. Enter one Chris Jones...:shake:

-King- 09-28-2022 11:33 AM

I remember back when we could have 4 WR sets and didn't need a RB or TE2 in the game to chip or help the tackle.


Good times.

The Franchise 09-28-2022 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX (Post 16494084)
Sure did. Shoot, it almost worked even with all the Special Teams **** ups. Enter one Chris Jones...:shake:

Jones made a boneheaded play. It ****ing happens. This loss wasn’t on him or anyone on the defense. Play calling, the offensive line and special teams ****ed this one up.

ChiefsFanatic 09-29-2022 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 16492989)
Dude I said it a few hours ago - that game on Sunday looked just like the team from last year. They've looked like this shit offense even WITH Tyreek Hill. I'm not here to argue about Hill - he's a generational player. Enough said.



But even with him, we had several games last year where teams locked him down and completely rat****ed our offense.



It's a little early in the season for this but I'm high as a kite and I've watched the All 22 like 6 times - the problem is Orlando Brown. It was Orlando Brown last year. Mahomes just isn't comfortable in the pocket, even when it's there.



Orlando Brown simply has to go after this season is over. Wish we could have gotten rid of him in the offseason now.

That you for saying that. I have felt that way for a while, but just didn't say it.

OBJ looks even worse on the all-22.

We absolutely cannot afford to pay him the money he wants. I don't know what the plan would be for replacing him at LT, but a JAG making $5-$9 million per year would not perform much worse than OBJ making $20+ million per year.


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Couch-Potato 09-29-2022 05:37 AM

Here's what it is...

1. The Oline isn't playing up to our high expectations, need to sure that up. Yes, a really solid RT would be great, but after that we might start looking at LT and wondering if there's a more solid option out there for the blindside as well. Not sure we're committed to paying OBJ big money yet. He's just not Trent Williams, who we really wanted, but hoping he can improve.

2. WR room is in flux, too many B or C level players and we can't find time for all of them. Vets are best fit for return duty, but we're giving that to Moore to get him some touches I guess. Next year I predict a more streamlined WR room, with clear rankings. Seems more likely we'd go DL in next year's draft so unlikely to pick a world beater imo.

3. RB room is a lot like the WR room, none are bad but nothing great has emerged yet. I'd trade the entire room for a stud RB like Saquan or Kamara.

4. DL isn't playing terrible, maybe a notch better than last year but still not putting you on the edge of your seat. Personally, I'd like to see us add Suh and we probably go EDGE in the 1st next year IMO.

JPH83 09-29-2022 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 16495175)
Here's what it is...

1. The Oline isn't playing up to our high expectations, need to sure that up. Yes, a really solid RT would be great, but after that we might start looking at LT and wondering if there's a more solid option out there for the blindside as well. Not sure we're committed to paying OBJ big money yet. He's just not Trent Williams, who we really wanted, but hoping he can improve.

2. WR room is in flux, too many B or C level players and we can't find time for all of them. Vets are best fit for return duty, but we're giving that to Moore to get him some touches I guess. Next year I predict a more streamlined WR room, with clear rankings. Seems more likely we'd go DL in next year's draft so unlikely to pick a world beater imo.

3. RB room is a lot like the WR room, none are bad but nothing great has emerged yet. I'd trade the entire room for a stud RB like Saquan or Kamara.

4. DL isn't playing terrible, maybe a notch better than last year but still not putting you on the edge of your seat. Personally, I'd like to see us add Suh and we probably go EDGE in the 1st next year IMO.

As it stands I'd just forget drafting DL in the 1st. We have needs there for sure, it is a weakness still, but unfortunately the greater need is OTs and WRs. We'll see where we're at when the season ends but if it's roughly the same place we are now, first 2, maybe even 3, picks should be OT and WR

oldman 09-29-2022 06:12 AM

I'm hoping the new RT is already on the payroll. That might be Niang, PTW, or even Kinnard. The team obviously thinks they have something in all 3 or they would be gone. No way should we pay Brown the money he wants.
I don't think the WR or the RB room is bad as some people think. We have MVS for the next couple of years, Watson will probably cheap enough to retain, Moore really hasn't had a chance yet, and Ross is on IR. The RB group is a little less clear, but until we decide what we're going to do in the run game, it's hard to tell what we have. Are we a Martyball team, RPO, or what?
Sure we could use another edge guy, so could most of the teams in the NFL. I don't see exchanging Clark's boat anchor contract for another one as a wise choice.

chiefzilla1501 09-29-2022 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler (Post 16493692)
Somone messed up and my bet is Hardman. Probably why Pat threw the ball expecting the pick.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Juju was not happy after the final play and was talking to Hardman, gesturing about the route.<br><br>This looks to me like Juju was expecting a pick from Hardman&#39;s route and didn&#39;t get it. And given the man coverage here it would&#39;ve worked. <a href="https://t.co/V1pWLLKIgx">pic.twitter.com/V1pWLLKIgx</a></p>&mdash; Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/1574984945852108801?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 28, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Mahomes commented that on almost every play someone was in the wrong spot. I’ll chalk a lot of that on new WRs learning. Mecole is the one guy with little excuse. I’d like to see skyy get more snaps but if this is the issue, then it seems the guy who needs more snaps is Watson. For now we just need our guys to be in the right spots. May also be worth looking at what rojo has to offer. He may not be as talented as everyone in the RB room but at least he will decisively attack holes instead of dancing around them.

crayzkirk 09-29-2022 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 16494053)
That Colts gameplan looked like Andy not wanting to put a ton out there and thinking that they could get by with the bare minimum. And it would have worked if STs hadn't ****ed it up entirely.

I have a hard time accepting this; that Andy would dismiss another team so easily. I'm giving the other team credit for being prepared for the Chiefs and I'm placing the blame on our team for not being properly prepared.

Maybe Brown is injured worse than we thought.

htismaqe 09-29-2022 06:22 AM

Again, if he's hurt THAT bad, sit him for a while and let him heal. Patrick's health is paramount.

rabblerouser 09-29-2022 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 16493624)
What sticks in my mind a little was the poor execution by Juju and Mahomes on the last play. Mahomes should not have thrown that ball.

It was Hardman, inexplicably cutting his route 2 yards short which ****ed up the timing and allowed so many defenders to be where Mahomes was trying to go.

Ridiculous, especially, what, year ****ing FOUR in this offense?
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic (Post 16495142)
That you for saying that. I have felt that way for a while, but just didn't say it.

OBJ looks even worse on the all-22.

We absolutely cannot afford to pay him the money he wants. I don't know what the plan would be for replacing him at LT, but a JAG making $5-$9 million per year would not perform much worse than OBJ making $20+ million per year.


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I'd consider moving up in the draft to take the best LT available if that's what it took to never be in this situation again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX (Post 16493601)
If the OL could block better, a lot of the stuff you mentioned gets cleaned up.

But they don't, at least pass blocking. They'd be a GREAT power running line...but that would take a coaching staff that isn't trying to force them to be the RPO-based pass blocking line that Reid & Co are stubbornly adamant about them being. The plays take too long to develop and the defenses are ready for them, they know the concepts now, the shit doesn't take anyone by surprise, it's like watching old people ****.

Reid needs to (boot Bieniemy and) get back to more of the pure WCO that his roots are in. Get Mahomes out of the shotgun so much (those draws from the shotgun off the RPO that go nowhere...), get him under center, go 12 personnel (Kelce and Fortson, MVS and JuJu) to get the BEST players on the field, and run an actual pro style offense.

These defenses are susceptible to well-designed runs and seam routes the way they bracket the receivers deep. We have the personnel to take advantage of that.

Why the coaching staff refuses to see that and put the players in a position to take advantage of weaknesses in the defense is kind of a mystery to me on some levels.

oldman 09-29-2022 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crayzkirk (Post 16495190)

Maybe Brown is injured worse than we thought.

Brown is injured?? What, his ego?

rabblerouser 09-29-2022 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldman (Post 16495201)
Brown is injured?? What, his ego?

Maybe his dick is broken?

htismaqe 09-29-2022 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldman (Post 16495201)
Brown is injured?? What, his ego?

He's been on the injury report for 2 weeks. He dinged a knee either in Arizona or in practice prior to week 2.

KChiefs1 09-29-2022 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler (Post 16493692)
Somone messed up and my bet is Hardman. Probably why Pat threw the ball expecting the pick.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Juju was not happy after the final play and was talking to Hardman, gesturing about the route.<br><br>This looks to me like Juju was expecting a pick from Hardman&#39;s route and didn&#39;t get it. And given the man coverage here it would&#39;ve worked. <a href="https://t.co/V1pWLLKIgx">pic.twitter.com/V1pWLLKIgx</a></p>— Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/1574984945852108801?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 28, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


I’ll be glad when they flush that turd.


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rabblerouser 09-29-2022 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 16495196)
Again, if he's hurt THAT bad, sit him for a while and let him heal. Patrick's health is paramount.

There's a severe drop-off in the depth chart at LT after OBJ.

Scary, I know.

htismaqe 09-29-2022 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabblerouser (Post 16495206)
There's a severe drop-off in the depth chart at LT after OBJ.

Scary, I know.

After Sunday, I'm not sure that's true.


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