You need 3 because James is a FA, and putting Watson or Toney in any kind of position that relies upon them can't be trusted.

Marquise Brown was good the last time he was in a competent system and is still young. I won’t put too much of the lack of production in Arizona on him. It’s more dysfunction than anything else, IMO. And Murray being out a bunch.

I wouldn’t consider him or Evans “spare parts.”

They’ll approach it from a few different angles, I think. And if it’s Mooney as the top FA agent, I’d be surprised.

Yeah they don't need to overcorrect and go crazy trying to spend tons of money on it. If MVS and Toney simply catch passes like an average NFL and. It be reeruned lining up offsides then we're probably sitting at 13-3 looking to lock up the 1 seed this week.

Feels like they could spend some money on a WR2 like Ridley or Brown and get a wave 2 consistency guy like Boyd or Samuel and then look to the draft.

I'd expect Veach land a big fish at WR on day 1 of FA

Evans certainly isn't spare parts. I've been out on him due to age and the money he's likely to command, but if Veach could pull a rabbit from his hat and sign him to a friendly deal (either $ or years) I'd be fine with that and a draft pick.

But just thinking guys like Hollywood and Mooney (as examples) are gonna be good just because?

Hell, we had guys regress IN this system, I'm not sure why anyone would just assume that guys who haven't produced in years would all of a sudden revive their careers here.

I like Mooney a lot but if they add Mooney they need to add another vet chain mover and then move up for 1st round WR.

The WR room needs to be setup for now and the future as Kelce aging out.

Hollywood would look better with Mahomes than he did with Dobbs or Tune or Lamar in a run-first Ravens offense a few years ago.

He's very good at getting behind a defense and catching TD's.

Kind of a need here if you haven't noticed.

No joke.

Travis Kelce 984 yards
Rashee Rice 938 yards
Justin Watson 460 yards
MVS 315 yards
Skyy Moore 244 yards
Kadarius Toney 169 yards
Richie James 99 yards
Mecole Hardman 47 yards
Justyn Ross 36 yards

It is?

We won a SB without that *need* in the arsenal.

Honestly, without some key drops and James' missed time, we'd be fighting for HFA right now.

They aren't *that* far off. Find a true WR1 to pair with Rice, draft another guy to develop and bring back James and/or Toney and they'll be fine.

But if they go back and make the MVS mistake again?

If they get a WR 1 it's probably someone that can do that.

Yes, it's a huge need. Last year teams still were scared Mahomes would buy time and hit someone deep so they still played off and let us do efficiency stuff.

This year teams know we can't beat them so everyone squatting on short stuff and the efficiency that worked last year is broken.

If you can't threaten verticals teams will come up.

Watch the Raiders or Broncos play us. Zero respect or worry about getting beat deep.

My thought re: Brown is about his abilities and fit. He's still fast, and quick, and has good acceleration, and is a reliable catcher of the football. His scheme fit is high.

He was a productive and ascending player until he landed in the Arizona mess, and even there he was pretty good at the start (about 460 yards in his first six games before it all went to shit between injuries to Murray, and Kingsbury getting fired.

They also need to start looking at a replacement for Kelce. He will be 35 next year and while TEs age well he can’t be expected to continue 100 catch, 1,000 yard seasons. He can still do a lot, and taking some burden off of him would help a ton while still giving Mahomes a safety blanket.

MVS, Ross, Moore, Hardman, and Toney...there is so little production there that 3 new WRs seems conservative. Continuity with those 5 is a negative.

Hollywood had 21 TD's in 3 years with Lamar starting out. 7 in 2 years with Kyler missing about 60% of the games. He's a really good scheme fit opposite Rice.

There just isn't a true WR1 available unless a guy late in the 1st could eventually develop into that. Rudely, Brown, Higgins. All these guys are WR2's which is fine.

There's only like 10-15 true alpha WR1's in the league

I don't want to see this group of WR's ever again. Only Rice worth keeping,

Get 4 new bodies.

You're gonna be *highly* disappointed.

Go look at the career stats for Sammy Watkins.The best year of his career he had 60 receptions for 1,047 yards and 9 TDs. Sammy NEVER had over 55 receptions, 675 yards or 3 TDs in a Chiefs uniform.

Rashee Rice in his rookie year just put up 79 receptions for 938 yards and 7 TDs.

Sammy Watkins hype was a product of his top 5 draft position. Rashee Rice is already a better NFL player. Id expect him to take a leap next year as well.

My point exactly.

I think Brown is a GREAT complementary fit for KC. His skillset is perfect for the Z role KC has traditionally emphasized. He would be a perfect complement to Rice, especially if paired with a draft pick like Adonai Mitchell.

Paying Hollywood 15 million dollars to be a complimentary guy seems like a real waste of resources though. If I'm gonna pay, PAY, and be done with it with a guy that's gonna be that valuable.

Last year they had Kelce and they just fed him the ball and it was fine. Which is why I'm pro, go overspend and get a guy that you can do that with, let him and Rice and the other guys play off it and be done with it.

The Cowboys have parts around him, yet Ceedee gets 20 god damn targets a game. Same with Tyreek.

Get one of those guys, throw him the ball alot.

"Spread the ball around".


Nah, we're done with that. Get 2/3 guys that are good, throw them the ball over and over and over.

I think we are starting to hit the point that maybe we should accept what a great year last year was but it was also not something that can be repeated.

Maybe it is selective memory but I swear 95% of Peyton Mannings yards with the Colts went to Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark. Go get that for Pat moving forward.

Why not? Their top 3 receivers last year were Juju, Kelce and McKinnon. Well Juju is gone, McKinnon is old and washed and Kelce has been dealing with nagging injuries/age this year.

The starting guys this year were complimentary players last year.

That's a tier 3 WR salary, though. Established #2s are going to cost more.

The reality is receivers cost money.

If they had the opportunity to pay a guy who deserves $25M/year, sure, pay that guy. But it's super unlikely they can get that guy. They're rare and hard to get your hands on.

Brown is a scheme fit with the physical talent to outplay that contract and who is a good bet to at least play TO that contact.

Giving the Chiefs a really credible Z receiver to work off of Rice and Kelce, while taking some shots in the draft to allow you to replace guys from within, seems like a good plan to me.

It required everything to go exactly right and Mahomes having one of the greatest years of all time, just expecting that to always happen isn't exactly a great idea.

Adonai Mitchell

Paying him what they are, that's just kinda the reality though.

Not you in particular, but it's funny how Chiefs fans were ok trading one away and not paying him that but now alot want them to go get whoever.

I'd trade and pay a guy. There's gonna be one available, no one thought Tyreek would be there and yet...

Proly can’t go up high enough to get Malik Nabers

Nah that WR room is an abomination, it should never ever be THAT bad. There is nothing wrong with building a solid defense but it shouldn't have been done at the expense of Pats weapons.

I think the learning point here is, yes defense is important....but they have to much invested in LB and also there's a lot invested in the interior OL. That's probably the course corrections going forward.

I like Hollywood, but no way in hell am I paying him anywhere near that kind of money. MVS type deal, max.

For me it’s de and guard that’s overly invested. Though we may have the best de rotation in football right now I think it’s overkilll when our first rd de hardly plays.

Guard is just not a premium position especially when you have a guy that likes to roll out of the pocket and excels at that.

The WR room catches all the shit, but again, they just won a SB with it last year.

Rice has easily replaced JJSS so that doesn't really hold up. Shit just got weird and they all sucked.

They'll pivot. People will bitch when they can't get stops next year. Repeat.

I think Chiefs fans were universally OK with paying Tyreek Hill at the top of the market as it existed in March 2022. Then Davante Adams happened and blew the market up and he wanted to re-set it. At $30M/year, it didn't work.

I'd love for the Chiefs to trade for someone, but I just don't see it. Not a young guy who can be a centerpiece.

I know you're on Brandon Aiyuk and man, I love his ability. But trading big resources for a guy to then pay him top of market is pretty tough and has far-reaching impacts.

Especially when there are guys in FA who could also be huge impacts in a positive way for the Chiefs, for less money and no draft resources.

I'd rather have Marquise Brown at something like 4/70M + the 2024 1st (which I can use on a WR or a LT) + another $70M to spread around over 4 years than Brandon Aiyuk at 5/$125 and no 1st.

Or Mike Evans at 2/40M + the 24 1st + another $10M to spread around.

Now, if it's a Day 2 or Day 3 trade for someone like DeAndre Hopkins or Terry McLaurin (though I can't see a way the Redskins trade him when they're about to draft a rookie QB to play right away and McLaurin is in his prime). OK, sure. Let's talk.

There are a lot of paths forward. I think the one that involves trading a 1st for a guy you then make a top 5-paid guy at his position is least likely.

Theoretically though, they aren't gonna need to really pay a big position guy for a few years. Creed is great, he's also a C. Thuney is gonna be off the books, you'll have to sign a LB'er but are those off ball Lb'ers gonna really break much of a bank?

They aren't paying a LT, they may have to and or trade up for one so that complicates it.

But you probably tag and pay Sneed, maybe extend or cut Reid. Otherwise, you're secondary is set. You've got pass rushers from the first to play.

They were supposedly in on Aj Brown. If that's the case, they know what kinda waters those are to swim in, so that would open up some things.

MVS has gone from a decent complimentary player that was a big reason we won the AFC championship game to unplayable.

Personally I think the best course of action would be to go round 1 WR which is probably Franklin...then bring in a few signings.

Noah Brown is at the top of my list for money and how he would fit in here. But he's more depth after that I'd certainly see what it would take to get a Evans or Ridley in here.

Well yeah, Hammy Watkins spent half his games injured and he was competing for targets with prime Kelce and Hill.

But the offense was noticeably better when he was active than when he wasn't.

This. And they overpaid for him to get the deep speed threat to keep teams from squeezing up against the short game in cover zero or single high. It worked last year. It hasn’t worked this year. Because MVS has reached Feathwrstone from Necessary Roughness status. He has regressed so much teams just don’t fear him at all.

They’re going to attack that again. There are a few ways to attack jt - could be a speed merchant Z type, or a big physical X type.

I feel like they’re going to draft one of those types and sign the other.

Again, exactly.

Not to mention there's a better chance than not that the guy just isn't what some people think he is based on one season.

It's exactly how we end up right back in the position we're in now.

This is why trade and a pay for a guy is a bad idea. They need resources whether it's money or early draft picks to stay balanced.

From a talent perspective, it's nowhere NEAR that bad.

People are freaking out because it's literally been an "everything that can go wrong, has" kind of season.

The room isn't terrible. But damned if they aren't all playing terrible at the same time. I really think losing EB has played a role, not so much from a play calling perspective, but from a climbing in asses perspective.

Some folks are gonna be disappointed when most of this room comes back in '24.

It's amazing that people want to move on from MVS and then have sticker shock at 15 million a year.

If they sign Hollywood at 15 he's the only WR getting paid real money as Rice is cost-controlled and they also need to add a top pick at WR who will also be cost controlled.

15 million plus draft pick salaries for your top 3 WR's is nothing.

These guys suck.

There is not ONE vet WR on the roster Mahomes wants to throw to.

Sticker shock at someone who's done **** all for the last 2 years.

I'd rather they throw $25M at someone who has actually produced.

****, I'd rather they get aggressive in the draft and bring James and Toney back than throw money at big ass question marks.

Nope. I refuse to even think about the draft or F/A until the season is over. I have no idea what WR's are coming out of the draft or F/A.

Bullshit.

James caught 60 balls from Daniel ****ing Jones.

Hardman has been an important piece of this offense before.

Both had some bad injury luck this year, or things are likely different.

Toney has all the talent in the world and has had some untimely and downright crippling drops.

This isn't who they are, but the optics are terrible because "everything that can go wrong, has" for everyone but Rice, 15 is seeing ghosts, and people are freaking out because they aren't playing at the out of their goddamn minds-level that we expect.

If things were as bad as some of y'all claim, we wouldn't even be in the playoff hunt, much less locked into the 3 seed.

Things have been pretty bad. Fortunately the defense has been excellent which has made up for the offense struggling.

Played several other years in Buffalo, LA, Baltimore amd Green Bay where he wasnt competing with Tyreek and Kelce for targets and never did anything of significance. Not hating on the guy just said Rashee Rice will be a better/cheaper version than he ever was the next several years.

Look at the tape from the 2019 season, bud. Sammy was a legit man-beater and was a good zone beater. Sammy he never had the drop issues Rice has been having nor the fumble problems, and he had more burst.

Those are just facts, his stat lines notwithstanding. Injuries kept him from ever realizing his potential, but his talents and skillsets were on display whenever he was actually healthy, and when Andy actually decided to make more than cursory use of him. Which wasn't that often.

Rice is developing nicely, but he's not consistently beating man coverage, and we know he's still learning how to play zone.

But don't take my word for it:
https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-foo...eek-15-2023#KC

Now, that's two weeks old, but it's as recent as I could find. And Rice went 0fer vs. man through the first 4-5 weeks of the season. So he's made some progress, but he still has a way to go in is development.


Now all that said, right now I'll take Rice all day every day, simply because he's not chronically injured, he's trending in the right direction, and he's producing well.

James hasn't done shit here this year.

What he did for someone else does not matter.

Hardman has never been a real NFL WR which is why he couldn't see the field for the NY JETS!!!

Toney has talent but all he has done is lose us games. And the coaches 2 years in don't trust him to run more than a few plays even when he is not broken.

Time to move on.

15 is seeing ghosts

Because he does not have a vet he trusts to throw the ball to. So no more bullshit. I don't want to do this again.

And the Ravens WR's are also comparable to KC, remember when you were pushing that idea?


LMAO

I want Tay Hickies!!!

I still wonder if Veach was trying to trade up for Flowers. But then would they still have drafted Rice? I need to call Veach.

Brown had 700 yards in essentially 11 games last year for an absolute dumpster fire team. He had a little less than 600 yards this year for a team that was again a dumpster fire in essentially 12 games.

We went through this re Hopkins last summer. The Cardinals were a mess, Murray is a mess. You have to consider that context.

If you want to knock anything, you could knock him missing 11 games last year and this, but he’s also playing on that garbage field in AZ.

You watch the guy and his skills are the same that had him as a 1st, that got him traded for a 1st.

Long story short, I wouldn’t say he’s done **** all. I’d say he’s had some bad circumstances, performed pretty well in a tough spot and with really rough QB play, and it’s got his market depressed.

He wouldn’t be the most SURE WR to add (that’s probably Mike Evans), but I think he’s potentially the SHREWEST WR they could add.

Ill take the tough football player who is leading the NFL in YAC as a rookie and is top 5 in yardage of any receiver since week 12. He is seemingly growing stronger every single week out. He must be doing something right. Give me a buzz when Rashee misses a single snap due to a strained hamstring or sore foot much less miss the majority of a season.

It sure was pretty when Sammy Watkins was fully healthy for the first 2 weeks of the season though. I remeber that week 1 Jacksonville game.

LMAO

Your takes are always ****ing hot garbage.

Well, yeah. I think I just said that.

Yeah, i did:

Quote:

Now all that said, right now I'll take Rice all day every day, simply because he's not chronically injured, he's trending in the right direction, and he's producing well.

But would I take 2019 playoff Sammy right now over every WR we currently have on the roster? ****in A I would. But that's fantasyland. Given the situation we're in, and what we've both said about Rice, I'm pretty happy about Rice. Just clearing up the comparison between Sammy and Rice, that's all.:)

Richie has been pretty decent so far. I think his injury made it hard bc he couldn't get many game reps with Patrick until recently. Rice has definitely earned Patrick's trust without a doubt. Patrick also trusts Watson.

It was mainly the three assholes that pissed Patrick off. Why Andy won't replace MVS with Hardman is beyond shocking to me.

The guys outside of Rice may not be stars but they are doing the little things right.

Uh, okay, I'll bite: which WRs aside from Rice are "doing the little things right"?


Because I literally can't think of a single one.

Aside from the one error play lining up, has Richie not been a decent player? 54 yards last week, 1 catch and a very good punt return this week.

Watson has gotten open and caught deep passes twice in 3 games. His one drop in the Bengals game was a tough contested catch.

Hardman made a critical catch in the Chargers game and had an awesome pun return.

These guys are getting magnified right now bc of MVS. If that asshole catches Mahomes pass it's a TD and the Chiefs get 29 points instead of 25. Erase him and the WR's are not killing the team.

But again they aren't stars. They're just decent players that haven't killed us like Skyy, MVS and Toney have.

The book might still be open on James. But he's been a non-factor as a Chief so far. He was also the guy that effed up that crossing route Week 1. maybe he'll do something significant in the playoffs. In the regular season he's done next to nothing, one 54-yard game notwithstanding.


Watson is a ST player, nothing more. He catches 1-2 passes a game and next to no points, and he's regressed to a 50% catch rate guy. "caught deep passes twice in 3 games." Holy shit, the bar is ****ing low for some people.

Hardman is in the same boat with James. Hasn't done anything of note yet but might still be productive in the playoffs. We can still have a glimmer of hope. I always liked Hardman, for what he was, not what he could maybe become, but I'm realistic about what he can do. Given his skillsets, I understand he's going to run a lot of gadget stuff, but I wish they'd send him deep more often. We'll see what happens.


Bottom line though, these guys aren't very good. None of them. At best, James/Hardman is a low-end 3, top-end WR4. But that's it. If we cut them all tomorrow, not one team would sign them for the playoffs, and i have doubts any would be signed during the offseason, by any NFL team. Maybe James on some 1-yr min rate deal before beginning his new career as a car salesman in 2025.

Kind of like Billy Beane? I hope Josh Palmer comes free from LAC, always has big days against the Chiefs

I think a guy like Curtis Samuel is underrated and could fit in well in KC. He's only 27. Plus he wouldn't cost a ton. I'm not saying sign Samuel and all our problems are fixed. But I think he would be a plus addition here.

Id keep an eye out for Xavier Lagette at the end of the 1st round. He reminds me a lot of AJ Brown who Veach was clearly intrigued by. 6'3" 227 lbs dude is impressive. Huge YAC guy which Reid loves in his offense. If he runs well at the combine his draft stock is going to soar.

Even as bad as kc has been…..the ravens wrs aren’t exactly setting the world on fire no?

No, they're really not.

Rice has been more productive than Flowers.

OBJ has similar production to Watson, but he had that big prime time game!

They're better, but not worthy of the dick sucking they've been receiving all season from MahomesMagic.

Hollywood is going to be our desean Jackson. And we aren’t tagging jones. Get used to it.

To be fair Mahomes has 140 more pass attempts than Lamar Jackson. That needs to be taken into consideration when comparing the WRs production.

He's an incredible physical specimen.

So why did he do absolutely nothing for four entire years, before deciding to be Megatron in his fifth?

The draft is absolutely loaded at wr. I’d rather draft three WRs than pick up a FA. Rookies are always more motivated.Legette has too much bust potential for me. He could be a stud but he could also bust. Too many good options in this draft.

Nelson Agholor was literally MVS in Philly. Those fans hated him. they couldn't get rid of him quicker.

I think for me it really comes down to is Veach trying to bandaid the situation or solve it in one off season. Do you sign a Mike Evans who might only have one good year left? That still leave you needing a Chark or Samuels deep threat. We cant count on any rookie production for 2024. I keep coming back to Hollywood. He can fill multiple roles. Locks up the z for years to come, rice plays off of him and leaves you the flexibility to let the draft fall to you .

This is about where I'm at. And it assumes Brown's contract lands somewhere in the Christian Kirk territory. I think that's fair and a deal that would make sense for KC.

With inflation, you're probably at about 20 million per year.....for Hollywood.

I'm way out on that.

WAY out.

Maybe I'm just way to low on him, I need to go back and watch I guess.

That's what FA is though. Christian Kirk was a pretty decent player but never was an all pro or pro bowler and the Jags gave him $18 million APY.

Idk what you guys want. It's either "this players is too much" or "well we're back where we are this year not getting talent".

They're probably spending big on at least 1 WR. Probably Calvin Ridley bc he's a good route runner that has experience in our offense.

I know its been cited in here already to death but hes been productive in about as much of a garbage situation as there is. He passed stability on the tarmac going the other way when he got traded and flew in to Arizona. I'm not saying hes the end all be all but hes a poor mans tyreek imo, or just a Desean Jackson for this offense. Pair that with Rice and now you need one spot filled between the roster currently, the draft and late free agency. Hollywood is 27-28 and should still have 3-4 good years left in him (or hes desean jackson and plays another 10).

It's not my wet dream scenario its just what makes a lot of sense to me. I see him as more than just a downfield speed threat. He's 10x the reciever MVS is outside of just going deep. I am a little biased being from oklahoma thought. They used him for anything and everything. Hes just a play maker.

That's why you trade for and pay the guys that are worth it.