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-   -   NFL Draft Call Your Shot: Who’s the Chiefs first selection in the 2020 Draft (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=330630)

BryanBusby 04-21-2020 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Northman (Post 14922125)
Read a god damned scouting report.

Diggs is not a good tackler. He’s good in press and re-routing in a zone scheme but at best is a drag tackler and he doesn't create turnovers.

Noah is 5’11 and 200lbs. He’s hardly small.

Watch some actual game, dip shit.

That dude is not playing at 200 pounds and Diggs is a press corner when his game is refined.

Chief Northman 04-21-2020 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby (Post 14922145)
Watch some actual game, dip shit.

That dude is not playing at 200 pounds and Diggs is a press corner when his game is refined.

Child, please.

I watch a lot of football. Played, and have coached high school for over 20 years and successfully at that. All these corners outside of Henderson and Okudah are being overhyped. They each have strengths and weaknesses, and I identified Diggs’ weaknesses as corroborated by many in the scouting community. You can like him, but it’s well known he has his limitations. And regarding Noah, a player’s weight isn’t the be-all and end-all in their ability to play press.

VAGOMO 4 LIFE! 04-21-2020 10:32 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/Chiefs?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Chiefs</a> have put in as much work as they’ve been able to. Here’s as complete a list as I could compile on <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/2020NFLDraft?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#2020NFLDraft</a> prospects that they have had discussions with via The East-West Shrine Game, The Senior Bowl, The Combine, virtual meetings, etc.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKingdom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChiefsKingdom</a> <a href="https://t.co/udfPY2Y2qA">pic.twitter.com/udfPY2Y2qA</a></p>&mdash; Arrowhead Live (@ArrowheadLive) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArrowheadLive/status/1252762121630363649?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 22, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

BryanBusby 04-21-2020 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Northman (Post 14922254)
Child, please.

I watch a lot of football. Played, and have coached high school for over 20 years and successfully at that. All these corners outside of Henderson and Okudah are being overhyped. They each have strengths and weaknesses, and I identified Diggs’ weaknesses as corroborated by many in the scouting community. You can like him, but it’s well known he has his limitations. And regarding Noah, a player’s weight isn’t the be-all and end-all in their ability to play press.

You can play at the university of shit **** mcgee for all I care but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that dude looked thin on the field and NFL receivers that will have up to around 40 pounds of an advantage on him are gonna eat it up.

It's not really an argument for Diggs as much as an argument for not Noah.

DJ's left nut 04-22-2020 09:14 AM

I was re-watching the 2017 draft last night on ESPN and a couple things stood out - 1) how stupid the 49ers, Jags and Bengals were. The talking heads kept alluding to the fact that those squads needed quarterbacks and all 3 of them went a different direction. Hard to believe it was only 2 years ago but I just cannot see teams as quarterback needy as those squads were passing on a QB of any stripe these days. I guess we'll see w/ what Miami does.

But what I found most interesting was watching Arizona around pick 11. EVERYONE knew Arizona was taking Watson if he fell to 13. But at 12, the Browns clearly didn't care much about the available guys on the board and hadn't talked themselves into Watson. So what they wanted wasn't to move down 1 spot for a 3rd round pick - they wanted that future 1st from someone.

Well Arizona couldn't justify giving up a future 1st rounder to move up a single spot, right? And a future 1st round was what Cleveland was going to want to move out of that spot, even if it meant moving further down in the 1st. So a team like Houston was actually in an easier spot in some ways. Because if Cleveland takes a 3rd to move down to 13 from 12, they realize Watson is gone at that point and their ability to get that extra 1st rounder vanishes because nobody's gonna go ham to move up to 13 and grab Allen or whoever else was left.

In some ways, a big move is easier to make. Walk it all the way back to the 10 spot and assume Buffalo hadn't already reached an agreement in principal with Dorsey. The Cardinals still aren't going to give up an additional 1st to move up from 13 to 10 but both KC and Houston are right in the sweet spot to push themselves into that range and the return for a rebuilding Buffalo/Cleveland squad is going to be strong enough w/ that future 1st that they'll be eager to take it.

It's something you're able to recognize more in hindsight because you know how things worked out. You can actually sit there and say "man...why didn't Arizona move up to get their guy?" and you realize that in some ways, their hands were tied. Oh sure, they could've given up a future 1st and 13 to move up to 10...but that's a ridiculous expectation given what we knew at the time.

A lot of things had to go exactly right for the Mahomes thing to happen (or Watson to Houston), including the fact that both KC and Houston were good enough those seasons that their 2017 1st rounder was far enough back to justify them giving up the 1st in the following year that Buffalo and Cleveland wanted as part of any trade-down scenario.

DJ's left nut 04-22-2020 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic (Post 14922079)
If we are taking a corner high I want Damon Arnette. I would not be surprised if he goes early. Brings us back to what Brett Veach said about these mock drafts..he mentioned he liked seeing KC get good players but sometimes he saw WTF selections!

2nd round I would favor Amik Robertson or Cameron Dantzler.

Diggs is zone only..not twitchy enough. He's better than Jaylon or Gladney but that's just getting on base. Prefer to hit a double or triple.

Gladney will get outmuscled-pushed around by bigger players.

Jaylon will get smoked by most receivers..he could probably do alright against bigger possession WR's..but that's the NFL of 15 years ago.

I know Gladney's a little light, but he's a dawg man. He's game and he's willing to be physical, even if a guy like Julio Jones will body him off. When going against players like that, can't Spags just utilize more of a trail technique and allow Gladney's athleticism and length to play to his advantage?

Bottom line is that a guy like Gladney, if he were 20 lbs heavier, doesn't fall to the 20s (he still may not). But I don't think being thinner is something that disqualifies him since he doesn't play tentatively. And hell, there just aren't a lot of big, physical WRs in the league anymore.

Courtland Sutton and Mike Williams are all I see in the AFCW and neither one of them are guys that really concern me as dudes that can overwhelm Gladney physically.

Mecca 04-22-2020 09:23 AM

Someone needs to tell me why people are hyping Jalen Hurts....

The Franchise 04-22-2020 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14922563)
I know Gladney's a little light, but he's a dawg man. He's game and he's willing to be physical, even if a guy like Julio Jones will body him off. When going against players like that, can't Spags just utilize more of a trail technique and allow Gladney's athleticism and length to play to his advantage?

Bottom line is that a guy like Gladney, if he were 20 lbs heavier, doesn't fall to the 20s (he still may not). But I don't think being thinner is something that disqualifies him since he doesn't play tentatively. And hell, there just aren't a lot of big, physical WRs in the league anymore.

Courtland Sutton and Mike Williams are all I see in the AFCW and neither one of them are guys that really concern me as dudes that can overwhelm Gladney physically.

Especially considering that Mathieu had no problems with either of them.

duncan_idaho 04-22-2020 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14922555)
I was re-watching the 2017 draft last night on ESPN and a couple things stood out - 1) how stupid the 49ers, Jags and Bengals were. The talking heads kept alluding to the fact that those squads needed quarterbacks and all 3 of them went a different direction. Hard to believe it was only 2 years ago but I just cannot see teams as quarterback needy as those squads were passing on a QB of any stripe these days. I guess we'll see w/ what Miami does.

But what I found most interesting was watching Arizona around pick 11. EVERYONE knew Arizona was taking Watson if he fell to 13. But at 12, the Browns clearly didn't care much about the available guys on the board and hadn't talked themselves into Watson. So what they wanted wasn't to move down 1 spot for a 3rd round pick - they wanted that future 1st from someone.

Well Arizona couldn't justify giving up a future 1st rounder to move up a single spot, right? And a future 1st round was what Cleveland was going to want to move out of that spot, even if it meant moving further down in the 1st. So a team like Houston was actually in an easier spot in some ways. Because if Cleveland takes a 3rd to move down to 13 from 12, they realize Watson is gone at that point and their ability to get that extra 1st rounder vanishes because nobody's gonna go ham to move up to 13 and grab Allen or whoever else was left.

In some ways, a big move is easier to make. Walk it all the way back to the 10 spot and assume Buffalo hadn't already reached an agreement in principal with Dorsey. The Cardinals still aren't going to give up an additional 1st to move up from 13 to 10 but both KC and Houston are right in the sweet spot to push themselves into that range and the return for a rebuilding Buffalo/Cleveland squad is going to be strong enough w/ that future 1st that they'll be eager to take it.

It's something you're able to recognize more in hindsight because you know how things worked out. You can actually sit there and say "man...why didn't Arizona move up to get their guy?" and you realize that in some ways, their hands were tied. Oh sure, they could've given up a future 1st and 13 to move up to 10...but that's a ridiculous expectation given what we knew at the time.

A lot of things had to go exactly right for the Mahomes thing to happen (or Watson to Houston), including the fact that both KC and Houston were good enough those seasons that their 2017 1st rounder was far enough back to justify them giving up the 1st in the following year that Buffalo and Cleveland wanted as part of any trade-down scenario.

Good viewpoint and it highlights another thing about NFL teams that bugs the shit out of me:

They all get too fixated on "draft pick value." Get what you can get when you're trading down. Give what you need to give if you REALLY believe in a player - especially a QB - to move up.

Now, obviously, there's a line between being an analytics guy who would never give up "surplus" to what something should cost, and being an idiot like Bill O'Brien. But teams get too stodgy about this shit.

Want to trade down and the best offer you get is less than what the chart says it should be? **** it. Trade down and get what you can get.

Want to trade up for the guy you think is a franchise QB and the cost is a little more than you like (an extra 1st instead of a 2nd, an extra 3rd, etc.)? Suck it up and go get your QB.

Teams cripple themselves with these stupid pick value charts, and it's unnecessary.

Mecca 04-22-2020 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 14922581)
Good viewpoint and it highlights another thing about NFL teams that bugs the shit out of me:

They all get too fixated on "draft pick value." Get what you can get when you're trading down. Give what you need to give if you REALLY believe in a player - especially a QB - to move up.

Now, obviously, there's a line between being an analytics guy who would never give up "surplus" to what something should cost, and being an idiot like Bill O'Brien. But teams get too stodgy about this shit.

Want to trade down and the best offer you get is less than what the chart says it should be? **** it. Trade down and get what you can get.

Want to trade up for the guy you think is a franchise QB and the cost is a little more than you like (an extra 1st instead of a 2nd, an extra 3rd, etc.)? Suck it up and go get your QB.

Teams cripple themselves with these stupid pick value charts, and it's unnecessary.

It's because they're afraid of being ridiculed on TV especially if the guy they moved for ends up sucking.

MahomesMagic 04-22-2020 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14922555)
I was re-watching the 2017 draft last night on ESPN and a couple things stood out - 1) how stupid the 49ers, Jags and Bengals were. The talking heads kept alluding to the fact that those squads needed quarterbacks and all 3 of them went a different direction. Hard to believe it was only 2 years ago but I just cannot see teams as quarterback needy as those squads were passing on a QB of any stripe these days. I guess we'll see w/ what Miami does.

But what I found most interesting was watching Arizona around pick 11. EVERYONE knew Arizona was taking Watson if he fell to 13. But at 12, the Browns clearly didn't care much about the available guys on the board and hadn't talked themselves into Watson. So what they wanted wasn't to move down 1 spot for a 3rd round pick - they wanted that future 1st from someone.

Well Arizona couldn't justify giving up a future 1st rounder to move up a single spot, right? And a future 1st round was what Cleveland was going to want to move out of that spot, even if it meant moving further down in the 1st. So a team like Houston was actually in an easier spot in some ways. Because if Cleveland takes a 3rd to move down to 13 from 12, they realize Watson is gone at that point and their ability to get that extra 1st rounder vanishes because nobody's gonna go ham to move up to 13 and grab Allen or whoever else was left.

In some ways, a big move is easier to make. Walk it all the way back to the 10 spot and assume Buffalo hadn't already reached an agreement in principal with Dorsey. The Cardinals still aren't going to give up an additional 1st to move up from 13 to 10 but both KC and Houston are right in the sweet spot to push themselves into that range and the return for a rebuilding Buffalo/Cleveland squad is going to be strong enough w/ that future 1st that they'll be eager to take it.

It's something you're able to recognize more in hindsight because you know how things worked out. You can actually sit there and say "man...why didn't Arizona move up to get their guy?" and you realize that in some ways, their hands were tied. Oh sure, they could've given up a future 1st and 13 to move up to 10...but that's a ridiculous expectation given what we knew at the time.

A lot of things had to go exactly right for the Mahomes thing to happen (or Watson to Houston), including the fact that both KC and Houston were good enough those seasons that their 2017 1st rounder was far enough back to justify them giving up the 1st in the following year that Buffalo and Cleveland wanted as part of any trade-down scenario.

Buffalo should have taken the Texans offer. We got lucky that Reid gave Sean McDermott his chance in coaching.

L.A. Chieffan 04-22-2020 09:59 AM

The Texans tried to trade to 10 and had a better offer?

DJ's left nut 04-22-2020 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.A. Chieffan (Post 14922645)
The Texans tried to trade to 10 and had a better offer?

That'd be the first I've heard of it.

From everything I've read, Dorsey did a fantastic job of staying under the radar and ultimately just caught a lot of guys flat-footed. Very few people expected KC to jump up there and get Mahomes.

My understanding was that the Texans didn't get aggressive in their trade efforts until after Mahomes came off the board and suddenly the pool of QBs they liked was cut in half.

DJ's left nut 04-22-2020 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 14922567)
Someone needs to tell me why people are hyping Jalen Hurts....

I've seen a lot of raving about character and coachability. Combined with above average accuracy and you see some thoughts that he might be a hyper-athletic game-manager.

I feel like I throw Alex Smith comparisons around too frequently at times, but I think the teams that are high on Hurts the potential for a faster version of Smith.

You get that in the late 2nd or 3rd and it's a guy you can win 10-12 games with IF he develops that way.

Not sure I see it, but I think that's the justification for it.

Mecca 04-22-2020 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14922697)
I've seen a lot of raving about character and coachability. Combined with above average accuracy and you see some thoughts that he might be a hyper-athletic game-manager.

I feel like I throw Alex Smith comparisons around too frequently at times, but I think the teams that are high on Hurts the potential for a faster version of Smith.

You get that in the late 2nd or 3rd and it's a guy you can win 10-12 games with IF he develops that way.

Not sure I see it, but I think that's the justification for it.

The only time I ever saw a good passer was when Oklahoma schemed him some dudes open by 10 yards.....on the NFL level he's not gonna pass well at all.


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