no shit?
That's crazy.

I can buy that, but that's going to be fine dust particles and other non-dense materials. No way in hell does a 200-pound human get anywhere near that.

Not to mention that it's not anywhere near cold enough up there to freeze someone stiff in only a few minutes. Hell, skydivers fairly routinely jump out around 15k feet without any temperature issues whatsoever.

And finally, even if you assume both of the above issues are true, there's no way that a fairly blunt object is going to be driven into the ground far enough that only the feet were sticking out at only 120mph (rough terminal velocity).

And, let's say for the sake of argument he was frozen. He would not have been exposed long enough to be frozen "stiff." He would not have landed like a yard dart. He would have exploded on impact.

Hmmm.

I have seen large trees impaled by 2x4s. I have seen 4-inch tree limbs stuck all the way through an outer wall of a house (mine) ... through cedar siding, two layers of sheet rock, and thick, fiberglass insulation resulting in approximately 3 feet of tree limb on the inside of the house.

The power of a tornado should not be underestimated. Therefore, I believe that a tornado could well thrust a frozen guy into soft earth with sufficient force to bury him up to his feet.

Not sure how he froze, though.

Maybe he was tossed up and down in the turbulence and eventually covered with ice like a hailstone?

FAX

The clouds for storms like Joplin can go up over 50,000 feet. That's 10 miles up into the air. Granted I can't imagine a person getting sucked up quite that high, but that was an unbelievably violent storm. You think they would been severely damaged before being frozen and turned into a lawn dart, but who knows.

:deevee: Jesus.

CONCORD, N.C. -- Team owner Michael Waltrip will hit the ground running when he arrives in Kansas City next week, but it won't be at the race track.

Waltrip, MWR drivers Martin Truex Jr. and David Reutimann and JTG/Daugherty driver Bobby Labonte, along with their crew members, are hosting collections at two locations in the Kansas City area for victims of the recent deadly tornado that devastated Joplin, Mo.

Reutimann and Labonte will appear at the Aaron's store in Shawnee, Kan. from 6-8 p.m. local time. Truex will follow the same schedule at the Bass Pro Shops location in Olathe.

Waltrip will shuttle between the two locations, starting out in Shawnee at 6 p.m. and arriving at Olathe at 7:15 p.m. Fans will be able to take photos and collect autographs from the drivers and crew members in return for donations of canned foods, blankets, and toiletry items, which MWR will transport to Joplin on Friday.

"Everyone has seen the devastation on television, and we wanted to help those people who are suffering right now," Waltrip said. "We're racing in the area this weekend at Kansas Speedway and we just wanted to do something that gives back to this community and the people that mean so much to MWR and NASCAR. ... We'll have some fun while we collect items the people in Joplin really need."

Items collected will be delivered to the Convoy of Hope location that funnels relief efforts to Joplin. Reutimann is sporting the Convoy of Hope logo on his No. 00 Toyota this weekend. Jamie McMurray, who grew up in Joplin, has the Convoy of Hope logo on his No. 1 Chevrolet, as he, sponsor Bass Pro Shops and his fellow drivers work to raise awareness of Convoy of Hope's relief efforts.

McMurray was confused, then stunned, when a friend in Joplin sent him a picture early in the week.

"I didn't even know what he had sent me," the Sprint Cup driver said Saturday. "Then I did figure it out because one part left of my house was actually the address left on the front wall.

"I think it's really hard for me to explain to you guys when you see the pictures to know what it used to look like," said McMurray, who indicated he last visited Joplin four or five years ago. "It makes it more real for somebody when you know what the school used to look like or the hospital or that area and see how destroyed it is. It's incredible the damage the tornado did."

McMurray said not only was the house he grew up leveled on May 22, the tornado "took the whole neighborhood out." Also destroyed much of the high school McMurray attended. The death toll reached 132 on Friday.

"Everyone that I know, or at least friends talking to friends, I haven't known anyone that's lost their life," McMurray said. "I have a lot of friends that have lost their homes."

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nascar/dam/a...omepage-t2.jpg

http://www.nascar.com/news/110528/no...ejr/index.html

I've had that situation occur several times. I'm bagging a patient and an emergency occurs elsewhere. Every time I chose to stay with the one I'm currently saving.

There is not a chance in hell they could have got me to stop bagging and go work in another area. As long as that oxygen tank had some left, I would have been there.

Really though in a situation like that it's simple Triage....

It sucks, but you save those you can.

I wouldn't have a problem with using the resources available to do the most good. Thats obviously the goal that benefits everyone.

The doctors can triage my services/skills however they want but once I start a life saving attempt I'd never quit until I can't physically go on, they are declared dead or they are revived.

Not to belittle your expertise or experience,but you've never been anywhere close to a situation like what J
Joplin experienced.

Within minutes of the worst natural disaster in the midwest in almost 20 years, they had literally hundreds of casualties coming from everywhere. On Truman Med's worst night, they've never experienced anything close to what occurred in Joplin.
Posted via Mobile Device

I understand your point, and appriciate were you're coming from.

Maybe it's just a difference in training or such, but I have had to make that call and it did suck. BUT it was the right thing to do.

I'm just assuming, but in this situation (Joplin) the Nurses started ventilation attempts as soon as the power went out. This being done on their own, as I doubt the Dr was right there anyway, then when the situation became clear they were told to stop. As they were needed elsewhere for those that could be saved. Again that's just an assumption.
Anyway I'm sure it was a tough call, and not being there I won't judge them for what they had to do.

I wasn't equating it as equal situations. But, I have been in the situation many times where the person is dying and resuitation efforts are under way and it looks like they are not going to make it and another life threatning situation occured. They need the same skills and resources as the person who looks like they are not going to make it. Most times the Dr. just called it early and we went on to the next one.

I'm saying if I was on duty and survived and started bagging the vent patients and a Dr. told me to stop, let them die and come out to the triage area in front of the hospital, I don't think I could do that.

I would not think those who did just let them die to go help others were bad people or anything negative.

Sure, paramedics have to make that type of call almost daily. I've always had that luxury of not having to decide those issues. By the time they made it to me someone else had already made that decision. All I had to do was start the process of trying to save them or take over for the paramedics.

http://www.ky3.com/news/ky3-national...,7121986.story

Here's an interview with someone from the National Weather Service... talks about some of the insanely large objects that were tossed about in the tornado.