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-   -   Jonathan Rand: What if (Matt) Ryan's there? (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=182786)

Mecca 04-11-2008 01:54 PM
Lets take Keith Rivers then, he's safe!

Deberg_1990 04-11-2008 01:55 PM
I wish we would have never drafted Derrick Thomas. He never could tackle very well. :)

Tribal Warfare 04-11-2008 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 4679399)
Do you realize that every HOF QB had flaws in his game before he was drafted???



Yeah, but that ball placement issue scares the hell out of me. So I should just downgrade my thought process about top 5 picks and some say generational players? Nah, at Top 5 you are looking for near perfection at Top 10-15 I'd give him leeway

KCChiefsMan 04-11-2008 02:10 PM
good God, I just watched a little bit of NFL Live and here comes Mel Kiper with his new mock. He now has us taking Branden Albert, passing up Ellis and gholston. That guy is a freaking moron. He also had Talib going #10, as much of a KU homer as I am, that's just stupid. Why do I even watch ESPN?

suds79 04-11-2008 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 4679214)
If you are looking for top 5 draft pick QBs John Elway is the benchmark
Okay debate setteled.

You're open to drafting a QB in the top 5 if only he's as talented as John Elway....

So basically you'd never be for drafting a QB in the top 5 ever again because one could easily make the case that nobody has ever had the tools like Elway did.

Yet is Elway the best of all time? Maybe... Maybe not. There's more to it than just the tools as I'm sure you'd agree.

Where does a guy like Ryan rank as far as smarts and decision making? How's he under pressure? Those are the questions to be asking.

Tough part is that's hard to measure.

suds79 04-11-2008 03:18 PM
Furthermore, if there ever was a QB who compares similarly to John Elway, better hope we have the #1 to get him. Good luck with that.

OnTheWarpath15 04-11-2008 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 4679359)
This idea that a QB has to be perfect is damn funny, alright I guess we should just wait for that and never win anything till one of those rare guys comes along...Roethlisberger was the 3rd QB taken in his draft with the 12th pick, guess he sucks.

You are not going to get a perfect prospect very often, you just aren't. The only thing Ryan doesn't have is a huge arm and frankly Brady and Manning don't even have huge arms.

Roethlisberger is a horrible example, considering he was the 3rd QB taken in one of the best 1st round classes in the past 10-15 years.

Ryan being the 1st QB off the board in this miserable class doesn't excite me.

I'm fine if we take him, fine if we don't. I think he'll be average at best in this league.

Tribal Warfare 04-11-2008 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suds79 (Post 4679549)

Where does a guy like Ryan rank as far as smarts and decision making? How's he under pressure? Those are the questions to be asking.

Tough part is that's hard to measure.


See the issue I stated on ball placement

KCChiefsMan 04-11-2008 04:54 PM
man I wish the draft would just hurry up!

007 04-11-2008 04:55 PM
Doesn't matter. Either way the Chiefs will make the wrong decision.

suds79 04-11-2008 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru (Post 4679747)
Doesn't matter. Either way the Chiefs will make the wrong decision.
Wow. You're a glass is 1/2 empty kind of guy aren't ya.

Dwayne Bowe to this point looks like an outstanding pick. Cheer up.

milkman 04-12-2008 09:02 AM
Quote:
Even if the Chiefs could draft Ryan, they’d have to wonder who’d be blocking for him. It makes no sense to commit a high pick to a quarterback if you can’t protect him, and the Chiefs stand three starters short of a decent line. When the Browns drafted Quinn, they’d already solidified their protection by taking Wisconsin tackle Joe Thomas with the third overall pick.
This is the dumbest argument one could possibly make against drafting a top 5 QB.
Yeah, JR, we can't possibly consider taking a QB, cause there isn't any hope at all that the O-Line can't be fixed with later picks in this draft, and in the next draft.


Quote:
Houston’s David Carr was a classic case of a highly drafted quarterback who received scant protection. The first overall pick in 2002, he was sacked 249 times during his first years as a Texan. Recently released by the Panthers, it’s tough to know whether Carr ever had the tools to win in the NFL. But it’s fair to say it was hard for him to develop while staring at the sky.
David Carr is not a classic case.

That Houston O-Line, while pretty bad, was made to look worse than they were by David Carr.

The guy could never read defenses, and held on to the ball too long, something that was listed as a weakness for him when he was coming out of school.
He never learned.

I said before the '07 season that I thought the Texans would give up almost half as many sacks without Carr.

I haven't looked up the numbers, but I'd bet that was a pretty good guess.

OnTheWarpath15 04-12-2008 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 4680533)
This is the dumbest argument one could possibly make against drafting a top 5 QB.
Yeah, JR, we can't possibly consider taking a QB, cause there isn't any hope at all that the O-Line can't be fixed with later picks in this draft, and in the next draft.




David Carr is not a classic case.

That Houston O-Line, while pretty bad, was made to look worse than they were by David Carr.

The guy could never read defenses, and held on to the ball too long, something that was listed as a weakness for him when he was coming out of school.
He never learned.

I said before the '07 season that I thought the Texans would give up almost half as many sacks without Carr.

I haven't looked up the numbers, but I'd bet that was a pretty good guess.
They gave up 22 sacks last year.

Just goes to show that the QB is just as responsible for allowing a sack as the OLmen are.

Hell, the Chiefs were an example of that last year.

Damon Huard was sacked once per 9.22 attempts with the starting OL the majority of the time.

Brodie Croyle was sacked once per 13.17 attempts, with his action coming at the end of the year when they were playing backups such as Niswanger and Taylor, and McIntosh was out.

milkman 04-12-2008 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coogs (Post 4677846)
If Jake Long is gone, and Ryan is still there, I could see making the pick. Get a RT, G, and possibly even a center as well. Then next year get Oher in the 1st round to fill out the O-line.

Sorry defensive homers, the offense needs fixed way worse than the d needs attention right now. Gun has had high draft picks and FA's for far to long.
I would bet that almost all these "defensive homers" would be all for taking Michael Oher if he were in this draft and sitting at 5.

But that's only speculation on my part.

I am not opposed to taking Jake Long if Dorsey and Ellis are off the board, but I don't believe that Long is the prospect at LT that Dorsey/Ellis are at DT, or that Oher will be next year, or even Andre Smith from Alabama.

OnTheWarpath15 04-12-2008 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 4680539)
I would bet that almost all these "defensive homers" would be all for taking Michael Oher if he were in this draft and sitting at 5.

But that's only speculation on my part.

I am not opposed to taking Jake Long if Dorsey and Ellis are off the board, but I don't believe that Long is the prospect at LT that Dorsey/Ellis are at DT, or that Oher will be next year, or even Andre Smith from Alabama.
You bet your ass that I'd be up for taking Oher in this draft at 5.

The three names that I keep hearing as comparisons for Oher?

Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, Jonathan Ogden.

The two names that I keep hearing as comparisons for Jake Long?

Jon Runyan and Jeff Backus.


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