Originally Posted by HemiEd (Post 5536434)

For Vrabel to be the team leader, a couple vets will have to go, maybe more. Waters, Gonzalez at least.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 5536437)

But when you've gone 6-26 over the last two years and you can count the talented players you have on both hands, you need all the draft picks you can get.

If I've said it once, I've said it a million times:

I understand and value what he'll bring to the locker room NOW.

I'd have no problem with this had we signed him as a FA.

I just don't agree with the idea of a rebuilding team giving up picks for an aging, part-time player in his last year.

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5536468)

NFL teams have multiple leaders, and Waters and TG are on the other side of the ball.

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5536464)

"It's still the guy with the most war stories who has the most impact and influence and has the power to set the tone."

"I think one of the lessons Belichick learned when he was coaching in Celveland was that the big-name players don't always make the best fit. . . . The players who were signed before the start of the 2001 season were all players brought here for specific reasons -- some for specialized skills, others for leadership, still otehrs fro a winning kind of attitude, but all because we were putting together a team, and tehse were some of the elements that were missing."

"Some examples: We acquired Bryan Cox, a veteran linebacker with talent but also a guy who brings an X-factor we needed for attitude. . . . He also brought in Anthony Pleasant, a defensive end he had drafted originally in Cleveland and a player he knew very well, one who would give us some veteran leadership on the defnsive line."

As coaches, we definitely felt we had substantially upgraded the team from where it had been in 2000. We didn't come in saying we had one of the most talented teams int he league, but Coach Belichick made sure all of us knew that we would have a team that was extremely strong mentally."

"After the workouts the players would talk to the coaches about responsibilities and also become use to the verbiage that we would be using. It was all preparation for the season and these guys wanted to do it. All it takes is a couple fo leaders to show the way. If one player told the others, 'Hey, I had a great meeting with Pepper', the next thing I knew there were three or four guys in my office."

Won for All by Pepper Johnson with Bill Gutman.

Pepper is currently the Pats, err, TE coach I think. He was DL coach for a stretch, and was with Belichick as a player with the Giants and Browns.

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 5536476)

I don't think Waters is going to be thought of as a team leader after what's been going on here...our team is full of soft players..

Personally when I saw the trade when I woke up today the first thing out of my mouth was "Scott Pioli thinks our team has no player leadership"

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut (Post 5536453)

Veteran leadership is nice, and all, but you have to have some talent in place before it can be led.

If it's a 7th rounder, whatever, but the overall shift in scheme and the lost opportunity to try to get a player capable of being around for more than two years is pretty disheartening if it's much more than that.

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5536485)

You overrate 5th and 6th round picks as well.

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 5536476)

I don't think Waters is going to be thought of as a team leader after what's been going on here...our team is full of soft players..

Personally when I saw the trade when I woke up today the first thing out of my mouth was "Scott Pioli thinks our team has no player leadership"

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 5536481)

Amno, that's great and all, but you still had some talent prior to that, regardless of the 5-11 record.

You had a franchise QB, 2 decent WRs, Milloy, Bruschi, Law, McGinest, Ted Johnson, Tebucky Jones, etc.

We have Dwayne Bowe, Branden Albert, Glenn Dorsey and Brandon Flowers. That's our current core.

This team needs talent for the leaders to lead.

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 5536488)

Says the guy who's team scored a first ballot HOFer with a 6th round pick.

:evil:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 5536476)

I don't think Waters is going to be thought of as a team leader after what's been going on here...our team is full of soft players..

Personally when I saw the trade when I woke up today the first thing out of my mouth was "Scott Pioli thinks our team has no player leadership"

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5536489)

I would tend to agree, though I don't know about Waters' situation all that well.

Vrabel brings intelligence, toughness and leadership. I think a roster full of young pups could use all three, to be honest.

But if you want some long-shot 22 year old that isn't likely to be on an NFL roster in 3 years and won't add anything short or long-term, that's up to you guys I guess.

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy (Post 5536494)

He would be right.

Seriously, how the **** could Waters and Gonzalez try to back Herm?

The only reason is because Herm gave them a country club atmosphere.

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5536475)

Seriously, have you read a single book on building a team? Go get Won for All or Management Secrets of teh New England Patriots or Patriots Reign or something to get some appreciation into the BB/SP system.

You're overly focused on talent. Do you think you mgiht draft ONE OR TWO defensive rookies THIS YEAR for that suck-ass defense of yours? Do you think having someone like Vrabel show him how to conduct himself on a path to NFL success might be slightly useful?

Do you think your ENTIRE roster will be flushed?

Fine -- do it your way. The Patriots, Colts and Steelers will continue to crush your squad as you focus exclusively on talent and ignore the other variables that are critical towards building a winning NFL football team

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 5536481)

Amno, that's great and all, but you still had some talent prior to that, regardless of the 5-11 record.

You had a franchise QB, 2 decent WRs, Milloy, Bruschi, Law, McGinest, Ted Johnson, Tebucky Jones, etc.

We have Dwayne Bowe, Branden Albert, Glenn Dorsey and Brandon Flowers. That's our current core.

This team needs talent for the leaders to lead.