Of your own free will though, no?

Ah, the tricky part of freedoms, see when your perceived freedom infringes on other people's freedoms, then it's not really a freedom is it? For example, you're not free to steal my TV, kill my brother, or throw a rock through my window. If you're talking about doing dope, go live in Amsterdam until the US decriminalizes it in the next few years.

What's the list of "so many things" you are restricted from doing?

come to cali, i got mad weed

So that's why you're so stupid.

I said yes, and tried to explain my reasoning

Yes, is there any other way you were implying, I mean what's your point?


You're not grounded in principle to the ideas the US espouses?

That shit was definitely snuck in there by the Bush administration.

yup, it was a conspiracy to get more people in the military. Had to do something, no way a draft was coming back.....

My point is simply that serving one's country in that way doesn't make you any more patriotic than someone who, say, has chosen to be an educator or a community organizer.

Some of them certainly, but I think to pretend America doesn't have regressive and destructive ideas and practices is to be dishonest. There are certainly a number of American ideas I do not espouse.

for the first point, I agree

for the second point, patriotism does not equal blind faith, or acceptance to all American ideas. Where does standing up and being quiet during the national anthem sync up to your point? Do you espouse the majority of american principles? Do you like living here, do you like the freedoms of political ideals, religious beliefs, coming or going as you see fit. Voting on ideas you agree with? Then stop trolling, stand for the anthem out of respect for all America has been through, good and bad, things you agree with and disagree with. Why can't we have unity in one small act?

LMAO

There are people, a large number of them, who believe America represents colonialism and imperialism as much as it represents freedom. If that is even possible, I can understand why someone might abstain.

I certainly believe in ideas like freedom. I just don't know that American history has been a good indicator of America's interest in it. And, again, certainly there are American ideas I clearly do not espouse.

Trolling often translates as "holding an opinion that differs from my own". Certainly that's not what you're trying to get across is it?

We can talk about patriotism once we're open to also discussing the uncomfortable truths of America's past. Something America has often proven it has zero interest in.

I'm tiring of this conversation, trolling = saying shit to elicit a response, a staple of posting styles on CP. I do it too sometimes, even in this thread going all mega patriot, to feed the flames. America was born on the ideas of gaining freedoms from the colonial era's past. Nothing has been perfect, but we've progressed to more and more freedoms.

The point of the conversation for this thread was about standing for the anthem and it relating to patriotism. Well the truth is this;

Ready for it?

Both the Texan players that didn't put their hand on their heart and Shockey speaking out for his beliefs are right, American and not worth fighting about. There is no law saying you have to stand for the anthem, there is no law saying you can't think it's the better idea to stand, there is no law outlawing either opinion.

If that's the true connotative definition of the word...
I've never "trolled" a day in my life in this forum.

We stand in agreement, sir.

My opinion on this is:

1. I know that I'm supposed to put my hand over my heart so I do, out of respect for the ideals of this country.

2. I don't expect everyone to know the proper protocol, so I don't draw conclusions about the respect for those ideals of people who don't put their hands over their hearts.

3. People who intentionally disrespect the country during the playing of the anthem as a feckless private protest aren't worth worrying about.

I could beat you at any type of test , on any subject, sober or not.

Come at me TROLL.

I take shits that are smarter than you.