The McCoy stuff is what I was thinking...and Campbell isn't a bad comparison for Freeman. For the most part Campbell is a guy who worked out well and has never played to his natural physical talent in games.

I could see workouts vaulting Freeman because he is the kind of guy scouts would love but I have a hard time seeing him playing to that physical talent for a long time. He makes alot of dumb decisions..I understand his team sucks and he has no running game but some of the mistakes he makes are inexcusable.

Freeman will be loved by scouts but he's a major project...he's a combination of Flacco, Boller and Campbell.

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check out his high school vid, that's the most Elway-like throw I've seen since John played

The amazing thing about that throw is that he did it with a flick of the wrist. He didn't wind up or have a running shotput start to it.

If you run through youtube and watch Staffords highlight vids he has a bunch of ridiculous throws in them.

Which is the reason why I posted it.

Stafford is a highlight real QB. And nobody is denying that. But is he just a big arm? Sure he can make spectacular throws but does he have consistency?

If he had the arm of Colt McCoy where would he be? This league has a hardon for big arms. If you take away Staffords arm would he even get drafted?

Well, obviously no. Who wants a one-armed QB?

He's got Matt Ryan-esq leadership qualities. He can take a hit. Good pocket presence. Pretty good decision making. Accurate on short to medium passses. He's got the intangibles. Sure he's a bit undersized and doesn't have the arm that Stafford, but he's a competitive kid with a good head on his shoulders.

Every guy is going to be a major project - name me a non-redshirt junior QB that came out that wasn't a major project.

The Jevan Snead comp Hamas keeps using for Freeman is just as silly as Kyle Boller comps for Stafford by anti-Stafford people.

Everyone has their biases for these guys, but let's focus on what we do know. On Freeman, we know he's huge, has a big arm, is very athletic, has played in a legit pro system, and has improved his numbers every year despite having an extreme lack of talent around him. No, his decision-making is not perfect yet, but if it was he would be the no-brainer pick at #1 due to his physical tools. Stafford's decision-making is hardly pristine, so I think it's a bit ridiculous to keep harping on Freeman.

Bottom line, I'll take Stafford if we have the chance. But if he's gone, I am definitely intrigued by the idea of taking Freeman with a mid-1st round pick, assuming we can trade down or maybe trade back into the 1st.

and he also weighs 200 pounds

Ooooh,.... Add a quality center to that bunch and we could have the best O-line again in the NFL in a couple of years.

Colt McCoy and Matt Ryan are nothing alike.

Have you watched a single Georgia game this year?

If you took away Stafford's arm and gave him an average one, you still have a QB who is 6'3", 240, who runs a 4.7, and has played in a pro-style offense with almost no weapons on the outside and has started since he was a true freshman in the SEC.

He'd still be a first round pick. He's the best quarterback prospect in the last 3 years.

He's also played in a Spread offense, comes from a program with a horrible history of coaching up their players. He's also been injured 3 times as a starter, and he has a Brodie Croyle like build.

If Freeman had thrown for 478 yards against Baylor, are we having this discussion?

I don't think that people understand how overrated OU's defense is without Reynolds. They got torched by Kansas FFS.

Intangible wise they are.

ROFL...they are called "intangibles" for a reason

He's a good leader that finds ways to win and the players rally around him. He's also a non-issue since he's returning to school.

We'd probably still need to draft a LG to take over for Waters.

There's also a 50/50 chance Richardson would work out at RG and Taylor would work out at RT. I'm guessing only one of them would pan out at those positions, but that's why you give it a shot.

Of course we are. He's been on the national radar all season. I don't live anywhere close to KC, so don't use the Big 12 bias argument on me. We're not talking about Chase Daniel or Todd Reesing, we're talking about a guy with legit pro size and tools.

I'm sorry, I don't want to spend a top three pick on Jason Campbell. It's horrible value.

Yes, because I'm pounding the drum of drafting him with a top three pick......

Are you incapable of taking the middle ground on an issue, or even a wait and see viewpoint?

You change your argument on Freeman with each post. The bottom line is that Freeman has all the tools to be a great pro pick, and his overall tools are right there with Stafford. We're barely halfway through the year - let's let it play out.

No, I don't. I've taken a pretty clear stance.

1) If you switched him with Jevan Snead no one gives two shits about him
2) He makes poor decisions with the football
3) He plays against a much lower level of competition than Stafford.

North Texas, Louisville, LA-Lafayette, Tech, OU, Colorado, aTm, Montana State.

That obviously compares to LSU, Alabama, Vanderbilt, South Carolina, Arizona State, Tennessee, Georgia Southern, and Central Michigan.

4) I'm really not in favor of us trading future picks in order to move back up to take someone when we are trying to rebuild an entire football team.

You keep saying this, and it makes absolutely no sense. Keep throwing out non sequitors though, it really makes you sound like you know what you're talking about.

He's just a junior, he's not perfect, and so does Stafford.

Sure. And his surrounding talent is much worse than what Stafford has, and I've pointed this out to you numerous times.

All he can do is play the teams on his schedule. His tools are still the same whether KSU plays USC or Northern Iowa. This argument is honestly pretty awful, considering the likes of Big Ben, Flacco, Matt Ryan, etc.

We could trade back as well. Either way, it's moronic to just exclude a player that could help this team because you currently don't like one potential way to acquire him.

Point 1: This board has shown a consistent history of Big XII bias. It's not a non-sequitur, it's an ability to rationalize that people have a fondness for prospects who they are closer to/see more.

Point 2: Stafford's receivers are shite. They can't get separation and he is routinely playing against elite college level talent. But here's the difference--he's shown an ability to read a defense, go through his progressions, check off and audible at the line of scrimmage, and distribute the ball to the correct man in the right spot.

Freeman is neither as accurate nor as strong armed of a thrower as Stafford, and although Stafford has made some poor decisions, Freeman is not nearly as advanced when it comes to making good choices with the football. Freeman played like absolute crap against the likes of Colorado and Louisville. Stafford played like crap against Alabama, but was literally the only thing that team had going for them that entire night.

The fact of the matter is that Freeman is a horribly inconsistent player, and he needs another year of actually playing the position to work out those kinds.

And trading down from a top five pick? Absolutely ****ing reeruned unless someone offers you a Herschel Walker level of compensation.

As I've pointed out to you already, I haven't lived in Big 12 country for years, I'm not a Kansas State fan, and I have no affiliation at all to Josh Freeman. If anything, I would be naturally inclined to slob all over Stafford like you since I see every single Georgia game here. The fact that you can't get over this is mind-boggling.

The Snead comp you throw up is ridiculous, but I guess since they're both black it makes sense to you. Freeman is bigger, has a better arm, and has played in a pro-style offense since the start of his freshman year. Meanwhile, Snead played sparingly at Texas behind Colt McCoy, sat out all of last season, and is now playing in Houston Nutt's college offense at Ole Miss. Yeah, perfect comps! :doh!:

Show me a wideout at KSU that is better than Massaquoi or AJ Green. I'll save you some time - you won't find them. Also, Stafford has Knowshon in the backfield and a defense that keeps the team in games so Stafford doesn't have to go batshit crazy to try and win games. Stafford has shown an ability to read a defense and make accurate decisions, but so has Freeman. Try watching more KSU games when they are on tv.

The fact that you believe that Stafford is so much more accurate than Freeman is laughable and shows me you've seen too many highlight films instead of actual Georgia games. He has the big arm and the size, but he's still extremely inconsistent. Of course, so is Freeman. That's expected, they're both juniors. However, the point is projecting what they will be like in a year, five years, and ten years down the line. Both players have excellent tools: Stafford has a bazooka for an arm, but Freeman's arm isn't far behind. Freeman is bigger, but Stafford isn't small. Both guys are athletic, but I'd bet decent money that Freeman outshines him at the combine.

That's one argument. Another argument would be that he won't gain a fucking thing staying at KSU and getting his ass kicked for another year. There is no talent around him, and that won't change next year. If I were him, I'd go pro now and start working with pro QB coaches to take my game to the next level.

Depends on who's available. Depends on if we even have a top five pick. Depends on how Freeman and others finish the season and perform in the combine. There are hundreds of factors at play that makes it a waste of time to go that deep into it.

The point remains that Freeman is a legit pro prospect that has been on the NFL's radar screen for awhile, and there are many reason for that. He has pro size, a pro arm, has started in a pro system since his freshman year, and has not had the benefit of hiding behind other star players.

I could honestly care fucking less what you think about him, and will continue to bring him up because any respectable draft thread centered on QBOTFs should have him in the discussion. A player with his combination of tools does not come around often.

I've watched two. Bama and LSU.

I wouldnt call him a spectacularly athletic quarterback by any standards. He has played in a pro style offence and has experience I'll give him that, he knows how to read defences those are his main skills apart from his arm. But he has also got consistency issues. He misses open throws and makes highlight real ones. I dont understand where you are coming from saying he doesnt have weapons (I can understand the argument that compared to someone like Bradford he doesnt but to say flat out has nobody to throw to isnt fair to Green). Sure Green isnt experienced but he has stepped up in both games I've seen and played very well. Opponents also have to account for a heisman candidate running back.

On the plus side he's got a strong arm, experience and a good understanding of the game. On the minus he is inconsistant, he makes questionable plays and he hasnt really been called upon to win a game (he is more of a game manager like Ben is in PIT relying on his running game then a gamewinnner like Carson in CIN, Drew in NO).

I dont think anyone would argue Bradford and McCoy are better college QBs but what Stafford has that NFL upside. And that has mainly to do with his arm.

Can he be the QBOTF (hell yes), is he the top prospect at QB (in my mind yes), is he overrated because of his arm (sure is).

my 2cent

Did, or did he not have Jordy Nelson to throw to for two years? How may this help his development? Why was he throwing for 50% against Colorado, Tech, and Louisville?

Arguments for Stafford:

Experience in a better conference
He has the highest football IQ of any pro-ready prospect
He has the best arm in the draft
He has more than adequate size, he has run a legitimate 4.7 40.
He consistently audibles out of plays at the line of scrimmage

When it comes to this draft, there is Matt Stafford, and there is everyone else.

Freeman is a huge project. I cannot stress this enough. He has good measureables, but so does Chase Holbrook.

I would not spend anything above pick 25-30 on this guy, this year.

Freeman would not be able to meaningfully contribute to an NFL team until 2011-2012. Stafford could come in and start in the latter half of his rookie year, and give you Carson Palmer type trajectory (pre-knee).


Funny, side note. I'm over here perusing through NFLDC forums to see what the room temp is on Freeman, and who do I see but you over there, bumping a three and a half week old thread to pimp him.

ROFL

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...t=25303&page=4

Get off his dick.