He Mecca...now I guess you're going to tell us that Profootballweekly doesn't know what they're talking about, right?:rolleyes:

cue mecca to say why this place is reeruned

Oh my god any list that has Curry as the best player and has Maybin ahead of Brown and Orakpo that high loses all credibility, Maybin is a total project.

Their list sucks.....they think the best DE in the draft is a 225lb guy with no pass rush moves.

It says Maybin weighs 250 who did the list Stevie Wonder?

Oh by the way...

3. Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
It came as a surprise to many (including Pete Carroll) when Mark Sanchez entered the draft after his junior year but at this point it looks like that was a smart decision. Even though he was only a starter for one season Sanchez is the most physically talented Trojan quarterback since Carson Palmer and there is no limit to how good he can be with more experience. Further adding to Sanchez's allure is the final impression he left scouts with, throwing for 413 yards and 4 touchdowns en route to winning MVP honors in the Rose Bowl. Sanchez will have a tough time overtaking Matthew Stafford as the top quarterback in this draft but he has a stranglehold on the #2 spot and could go as high as #3 overall to the Kansas City Chiefs. Worst-case it's hard to envision him falling out of the Top 10 overall and you could even see a number of teams trying to trade up for him.

are Sanchez and/or Curry at the combine?

where did this come from?

I know Sanchez is but there's no guarantee either of them do anything alot of top prospects wait till pro days.

I'm waiting for you to provide ANY information from ANYONE - 18th rate, 1st rate, or anything in between, including YOU, YOURSELF - that didn't rave about Leinart. That shit about the "deep out" is just some bar-raising bulltripe you added after it was pointed out that Leinart "had the best deep ball" in the country.

nevermind...I just read Curry's diary from the combine at SI.com

Sanchez's brother/agent just told the LA times he will throw at the combine.

You are truly a stupid ****.

You're the one who posted the scouting report raving about his ability to throw the deep ball...the very same scouting report that also questioned his arm strength and ability to throw the deep out.

Yet another 18th-rate draft site checking in:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=93&f=1801&t=3826483

Mark Sanchez scouting report, Matthew Stafford to follow...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Athleticism
While teams won’t have to game plan to stop his running ability, he does possess mobility in terms of being able to move within the pocket to buy time, and reset his feet and his shoulders. He is capable of pulling the ball down and taking off to pick up yardage, but is not a threat in the open field. As the 2008 season progressed he developed certain poor habits in his mechanics and footwork that will need correction. In particular, he sets at too wide a base, which not only lowers his eye level and release point, buts hurts his ability to move within the pocket, and keeps him from fully transferring his weight properly. Because of this, while he does throw with good velocity, it often comes from having to over-throw the ball.

Size and Strength
Mark has good size for an NFL quarterback, but considering his issues in the summer with his knee whoever drafts him will need to work quickly with him in improving his stance, as leaves himself vulnerable to dangerous hits on his lower body because of his long stance and over-stride. While his arm strength improved by year’s end, he does not possess a naturally strong arm, and really has to make a concerted effort to put heat on his ball.

One guy I just listed says Sanchez overthrows. Does that make it true?

The original point I made - the question I posed to Mecca - was why Sanchez will succeed in Haley's offense while Leinart faile. He gave the same old lame excuse that Leinart was drafted to be a WCO quarterback. The whole arm-strength thing is nothing but a side issue and I never put any stock in it beyond calling Mecca on his claim that Sanchez' is special. So enjoy your little triumph over a point I never made. I readily admit no one raved about Leinart's arm strength - just that he was the best QB prospect, a sure-thing franchise QB.

Show me ANYTHING AT ALL that suggested Leinart could only play in a WCO.

You said no scouting reports questioned Leinart's arm

You posted a link from a site to back up your claim, because it praised his ability to throw the deep ball.

The very same link, questioned his arm strength all the while you were claiming that none of them did.

kill yourself.

To my mind, "throwing one of the best deep balls in college football" implies a strong arm - not deluxe ("elite" I think was your word). The deep out is something you added on. Not a point that I emphasized or cared about, since I never claimed Leinart had an "elite" arm. Just that it was good enough to be a "certain" franchise QB and the top-rated QB on every draft board and mock.

If you really think throwing a deep ball is a reflection of arm strength stop now you don't know what you're talking about.

so to throw the ball 40 yards downfield doesnt take arm strength?

If you want to tell me that "questions about his ability to throw the deep out" is a red flag that says "this guy can't play in the NFL," then I'll put that right there with your claim that Cornerback is a position with high "positional draft value."

What about that, Mecca or "Hamas?" I've posted the question over and over, but you never seem to answer.

Why have no CB's been drafted higher than #5 in a decade? Why is the highest CB ever chosen #3? Why do you want a CB at #3 if Sanchez isn't there?

You guys are self-professed draft experts. Please enlighten us amateurs.

Not a fly no, even Chad Pennington can throw a lollypop long ball and he has an awful arm..

15-20 yard outs are true indications of arm strength..

If you guys are really going to argue this you are just going to make yourselves look dumb.

Great, I just know that you have no idea what you're talking about, this thread now has post after post of that proof.

Not unless you are throwing into a high wind. It's about the angle at which the ball comes out and accuracy.

Arm strength is shown by the ability to throw three routes:

The deep out, skinny post, and the square in.

really so chad pennington throws a "good" deep ball in your opinion?

but if the ball hangs up there it gives the DB a chance to make a play right? so IMO a "good" deep ball cant hang forever. it has to be more on a rope

No but he's a good example of how even a guy with the worst arm can throw a ball 50 yards on a straight fly...

No one judges arm strength on a fly, look what Hamas said above me he sums it up well it's judged on throws like that. One where if you don't get it there with enough strength your pass is getting jumped.

Why is Leinart a failure?

Why would you take Jenkins at #3?

What about these draft sites that question Sanchez' arm strength?

Leinart's NOT a failure.

He was drafted to play in a different scheme. He's an accurate passer best suited for the WCO.

He'll be a successful QB somewhere.

Again,

4yr starter never missed due to injury

over 100 tackles last year

Hard hitter and sure tackler

great against the run

4 int's all returned for TD's over 40 yards in 07

16 tackles behind the line last year

comfortable in space makes plays in coverage

Butkis award winner and team leader

----------

So tell me why you wouldnt want him? Sacks?
What makes Jenkins better?

He played in the ACC. Not the SEC or the Big 10 or the Big 12 or the Pac-10. The ACC.

Linebackers don't go high in the draft unless they're Derrick Thomas/Lawrence Taylor type of players because solid linebackers can be found throughout the entire draft, without wasting a highly valued pick.

Jenkins is a better choice because finding a good CB in the later rounds is far more difficult than finding a solid linebacker in the later rounds. Plus, the CB position is a premium due to the athleticism required to play on an "island".

I will be curious about Jenkins speed at the Combines. It could solidify his position or he could drop because of it.

A coverage linebacker is NOT WORTH THE FREAKING #3 PICK IN THE DRAFT. Jeez, get over this.

He doesn't believe that and keep refuting the fact that an inside linebacker doesn't have the same value as a pass rusher.

Chiefs fans RT's and cover backs are worth top 5 picks!

CB's arent taken in the top 5 very regularly either.

So pass rushing is all that matters? So Orakpo is next in line? Theres a lot more to playing LB than chasing the QB all day. A LB isnt a RT. You wanted a reasonable argument and I gave it. You have yet to give anything outside of LB isnt a valuable position. BS. Jenkins is a good player. He better run well at the combine or he becomes a safety. Curry is almost universally viewed as a top 3 talent in this draft. He has an excellent skill set most of which are things totally lacking on the Chiefs. Thing is I'm not even saying He's the guy I want, but the assertion that he isnt worthy of a top 5 pick just because you have a man crush on another guy is just wrong. We can have a reasonable discussion, or you can run home to the same arguments without support and drop a few condiscending jabs my way. Just about every football expert in the country has this kid as a top 5 elite prospect and the best of a very strong LB class. If you think Pass rushing is all that LB's do on a football team then you dont know half what you claim to about football.

great point...you proved your argument there...:rolleyes:

Then go back and look at recent history in the draft. Very few linebackers go in the top 5 and very few of those that do live up to their draft status.

Curry is Derrick Johnson in a Wake Forest uniform, basically.

And that is lame

And people say Sanchez is the beneficiary of a weak top of the draft class...

I love it when you so called draft geeks here continually trash Curry and pimp Sanchez....you'll believe anything the other is saying about Curry....and then you put your blinders up to what kind of guy Pioli is..and his reputation for drafting a QB in the latter rounds...that fact has been virtually ignored....and you still think Sanchez is going #3...wow...Curry's the man...he ain't no Derrick Johnson...nice try....he's the best defensive player in the draft.

That's better than the people who've seen 5 seconds of Curry sucking him off...lets be frank a good portion of this forum doesn't watch any college football other than their teams and don't know shit about these guys other than what they heard.

And that Pioli thing is stupid, he had Bledsoe when he got hired there his team has never had a pressing need at QB.

Not at all.

It's not slamming Curry to say he's Derrick Johnson. Johnson was an absolute stud coming out of texas. The point is that their college stats and measurables are almost identical, and the things that people say about Curry are almost verbatim with what they said about Johnson four years ago. Google it if you don't believe me, you can still find scouting stuff on DJ online.

Mecca...your anger only reflects your total denial

No one and I mean no one had Curry higher than the 12-15 range until Mayock sucked his dick on NFL network...that's not a joke either.

So then we're talking about being afraid of drafting a bust. As I've said before, just because this year it turns out that there happens to be a backer who is one of the best players available you dont draft him? The only player thats been suggested outside of LT after the 2 top QB's is a CB. There have been even less CB's drafted in the top 5 than LB's and yet no argument has been made for him other than the drone like generalization "CB's are more valuable than LB's". I would make the assertion that in general DT's are more valuable than kickers, but I'd take Vinitari over Ryan Sims any day. Especially if I already had 2 solid young DT's. (before someone starts of course I'm going to extremes but you get the point)

Draft history dictates LB's that don't rush the passer are not worth picks this high, period.

draft history dictates value at the draft position...wherever they may be.

Read this..all the dumbass things are covered.

Kansas City Chiefs: Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
FEB. 17 UPDATE: The transition is nearly complete. The Chiefs have a new head coach. They have a new general manager. They still have their old offensive coordinator, but it appears as though he won't be calling the plays. And if you think about it, the Chiefs basically have a new owner; Clark Hunt has been in charge for only a couple of seasons.

New regimes take new quarterbacks, and the Chiefs are the definition of a new regime. Hunt, Scott Pioli and Todd Haley will all want "their guy." Haley is calling the plays now, so I doubt he wants a shotgun spread quarterback like Tyler Thigpen. Don't get me wrong; I like Thigpen, but he just doesn't fit Haley's system.

JAN. 28 UPDATE: I've gotten a few e-mails asking me why I don't think Aaron Curry will be the guy here. Check out the Top-Three NFL Draft Pick Trends since 1998 for the answer. I'm not saying there's no chance that Curry won't be taken - the NFL Draft is known for being wildly unpredictable - but Sanchez is more than likely the choice here.

JAN. 22 UPDATE: This isn't as much of a lock as Matt Stafford going first or the Seahawks taking Michael Crabtree, but I think there's a pretty good chance that the Chiefs select Mark Sanchez. A new regime usually means a new quarterback, and Sanchez is way too talented to pass up.

Some may argue that new general manager Scott Pioli has never taken a quarterback this high. That may be true, but it's fairly obvious why - he had Drew Bledsoe and Tom Brady in New England. Why would he use a first-rounder on a signal caller? I doubt Pioli read Andy Reid's NFL Drafting for Dummies.

All the talk regarding New England's pick last season was that Pioli and Bill Belichick never spent a top-10 choice on a linebacker. Well, they drafted Jerod Mayo, didn't they?

PREVIOUS UPDATES: A new regime almost always equals a new quarterback. Mark Sanchez is a hot commodity, coming off a brilliant performance at the Rose Bowl, sponsored by Kraft. The knock on him is the lack of experience, but going 28-of-35 for 413 yards and four touchdowns against Penn State pretty much quelled those concerns.

No, not at all. I never said I was afraid of busts. Guys like Lavar Arrington or A.J. Hawk were not busts. Arrington might have been a borderline bust but only because of injury problems. My point is that these guys don't live up to their draft status because 4-3 OLB's generally do not have enough of an impact to be worth a #3 pick and a $60+ million contract. Hell I don't like the idea of a right tackle at #3 either but it would sure as hell beat picking an OLB at that spot.

Wrong as usual.

September 2008 rankings of top collegiate football players by PFW. Curry is the #2 player.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW...08RegOfPos.htm

What do you think is more valuable a top 10 QB or having the best cover backer in the league....

If you say cover backer you should ask the Titans how that works out.

And a 4-3 OLB is not a good value at the #3 pick.

I'm sorry that is a shitty ass reference, that publication blows, they have Aaron Maybin as a top 10 player.

That "shitty ass reference" just proved you wrong.

Are you going to take my wager then? You never replied and I've offered twice. Here's a third:

Barring a high profile QB signing or trade, if the Chiefs pass on Sanchez/Stafford at #3, you get all my casino cash.

If they choose either, I get yours.

Deal?

What's your M.O.?

To evaluate the best player (in your opinion) for the Chiefs at #3 overall, or too prove Mecca wrong?

I'll take you up on the bet above. (Notice I edited it). I wouldn't mind Sanchez myself I just don't think this staff will take him.

Since there was some complaint about the Derrick Johnson comparison, it's time to refresh some memories:He was actually statistically better than Curry, and they're almost identical in terms of measurements pre-draft (Curry @5 lbs heavy).

The fact that DJ hasn't been an all pro to this point doesn't change the fact that everything you heard about him heading into the draft was that he was the perfect LB, the best in years, almost word-for-word what you hear about Curry now.

And my point isn't that Curry will be what Johnson is as a pro, it's that Johnson went at 15, even with people talking about him going top 10 or even top 5. Because as good as he was in college, as great an all-around LB prospect as he was, as "can't miss" as people thought he was, THAT'S the positional value of a LB.

Take him top 5 if you want. I wouldn't. Not even if he's Ray Lewis (who went 26) or Brian Urlacher (who went 9).

Because other positions are more valuable.

So Sanchez, only? Even if Stafford is there?

Hmmmm.

Two things first: Let's wait until the Combine is complete and B) we need to wait for CanadaKc to respond.

Deal?

Right before the draft criticisms began to pop up about Johnson not taking on blocks and running around blockers. It led him to slide in the draft. Curry doesn't seem to have problems with contact, engaging blockers and shedding blocks.

Good.

Then he'll be a great pick at #15 overall.

If he's a strict coverage LB 15 would be a good spot. If teams think he can play MLB and/or rush as an OLB in a 3-4 then he could be worth a top 5.

The Chiefs fan-nation is bizarro-world. People seriously promote the idea of drafting a LB instead of a QB in the top-5, insinuating that it's somehow better to wait and to get a QB in the middle or later rounds, when everywhere else on earth they say you should take a QB early and get a LB later.

There needs to be some serious carl de-programming. It's like stockholm syndrome, or the waterboarding finally broke them.

Welcome!

Are you new here?

No, I just ride the short bus to school.

How much evidence do you need to see in order to believe that a MLB isn't a good choice in the top 5?

If he's a definate top 10. Hell you've been missing the fact that I'm arguing for him IF both QB's are gone. I've laid out 10 positives for the guy 3 times in this thread and the last one is the first response and it was just reaffirming the premise that LB's who dont have sack numbers are useless. OK. Make an argument to prove your point. Why not just go to a full time dime package with some stud CB's? Sure the Colts LB's did nothing till the playoffs but a LB's job isnt just rushing the passer. Most of the rushers arent in the top level of tacklers. so how many tackles makes up for 1 sack? How many int's? FF's? I'd personally love to have a guy who can make an open field tackle or send a guy back to the huddle dreading the next time he gets hit. I think after the QB's Curry would be a nice piece of the Defensive puzzle. You would like a 3rd young CB. So make a reasoned argument for why. Dont just make a blanket statement like "cover LB's arent valuable" and assume that makes it fact. Address the list of attributes I've listed on Curry and why they are invaluable. Or maybe you can just call me stupid and run away. Whatevers easier.

Exactly. I don't see what so hard in understanding that Stafford/Sanchez + Cushing/Sintim is much, much better value than Curry + Freeman/Davis/Bomar?

Almost every team in the league would love to have Patrick Willis. Dude is a ****ing monster.

But these types of players are lunch pail guys. In the top 5, you want a dynamic playmaker. That's not a guy like Willis.

Based on his history, it's not Curry, either.

My ****ing idiot formula. Loving it.

Pigeon-holing and generalization. Last year I was completely on board for Ryan, and I've repeatidly stated that I think Stafford is worth the pick. Let me ask again, Who would you pick after the 2 QB's and why? LB's arent important to D, OK Make the argument. Not just a LB hasnt been drafted top 5 bla bla.

I'm not sold on Cushing, but if we could land Sintim in the second...sexy.

And I'm not going to be sad if we end up with Curry at the #3, but he's very similar to DJ in overall playing style and I think that with a new defensive regime, DJ, and a lot of other Chiefs, are going to be much better than they previously have shown. As such, Curry, much like drafting a left tackle or a cornerback, would seem to have a good deal of redundancy associated with it when looking at our current roster. If there was a DE that was absolutely standout, or a weak side linebacker that was a guaranteed terror in getting to the backfield (and not a one year wonder like Maybin or a system guy like Brown), then maybe I could better understand an argument for those positions at the #3 spot. However, at this point, for the Chiefs in a BPA/Need basis, there's the two quarterbacks and that's it. Period.

I think it's more likely both QBs are there than neither at this point, although I think it's likely bordering on inevitable that Stafford goes #1. But I expected Ryan to go number 1 last year, and the Dolphins screwed the pooch on that one.

I think my pick would be Malcom Jenkins, assuming he has a solid 40 time. But it's a bit difficult to say at this point, without knowing who we sign in free agency, and without knowing what kind of defense we plan to run. I'm pretty high on Everette Brown, too. As for Curry, as I mentioned on another thread, to go that high, he better turn out to be Nitschke, Butkus and Singletary all rolled into one. Because that's a lot to give up for a MLB, and not just in terms of his draft position, but in terms of the contract he's going to get for going that high. But it would make more sense to me than taking either of the tackles, and I'm not big on taking a WR.

I was too and that would have been my pick if both QB's were gone but not now, after finding out he only 6'1".

How do they know that, I didn't think DL/LB got measured until saturday?

Why is it not Curry? He has performed at a high level for 4 years!

I get what your saying, but it takes BOTH to win and we have neither. If there isnt a "dynamic" player available are you saying you wouldnt want a guy if he was guaranteed to be Patrick Willis? (not saying Curry is guaranteed, just asking a question)

Something Mecca posted. I don't remember where.

Thats cool. I still dont agree, but thank you for laying down your argument. I'm not sure about a LT or Crabtree. The DE's arent there. I just think you need a solid tackler at LB which we dont have. Curry is that. He also made 16 tackles behind the line and he would help in the run. It may not be sexy, but if we continue to add playmakers we'll be headed in the right direction. As I've said before no team has made it to the SB without solid if not spectacular LB play. Thats my story...

I just read that somewhere as well. Someone mentioning something about Brown actually being around 6'1" and 220.

I forgot, Jenkins doesnt do it for me personally not knowing about the speed and having questions about his tackling/run support. Again, our guys dont tackle well anywhere.