You really don't understand football ownership or hell, sports franchise ownership in general.

To be fair, we can't really judge previous regime's second round picks as a barometer to what this regime will do.

Same as we can't judge previous regime's QB decisions.

To be fair, so have all of Andy Reid's other offenses. They've always had TE's and fullbacks and he's utilized them.

I'm hopeful that Dorsey and Reid aren't as incompetent when it comes to the draft as Grandpa (since he called all the shots) and Pioli were. That's not exactly making an argument that obviates the importance of second-round picks.

:thumb: This

That's silly.

The Chiefs and every NFL team has a long history of second round picks. No draft pick is a certainty and 50% of these guys, regardless of where they're drafted are out of the league in less than three years.

The Chiefs franchise has had terrible luck drafting in the second round for more than a decade. Sure, Brandon Flowers was a great pick but outside of that, the cupboard's fairly bare.

In the case of needing a starting QB with none available in free agency, either you reach for a player, hoping he works out yet knowing that it's unlikely, or you trade for a solid veteran QB that can win games and guide your team.

In this case, it was a no brainer.

It would be nice to occasionally hit on second round picks. But there's never a sure thing in the draft, especially 34 picks in.

Drafting isn't about luck. That's an excuse.

Dude, you seem to be entrenching yourself in a mindset of positivity, reality be damned. That's cool if you want to have that approach. More power to you, but let's not act like this perspective is anything more than the byproduct of hope.

fixed your post.

Yes, but as you've said in previous threads, that can't be held against this regime.

I don't have a problem with what they gave up, if Smith comes in and does what they hope. But when you look what Dorsey has been involved in, in terms of who they've been able to take in the 2nd round, they aren't throw away picks anymore.

Plus he's a dishonest POS.

Most teams run a spread option with an east-west running game. The Pistol runs north/south and as a pure running game in itself, is arguably a better running attack because it's so hard for the defender to predict where the play is going. That in itself makes the pistol worth it.

We will have to see if NFL defenses are much quicker. We'll see if you truly need a very mobile QB to run it. I don't think you do. I think the modern pistol has enough variations and bluffs that defenses can't get caught cheating. It's not like a typical read option. Again, I don't think we should be modeling after other teams like Seattle. SF seems to have the most progressive vision of the pistol and it features arguably one of the most innovative running attacks in the game. I look at the moves the Chiefs made and can't help but think this is where they are going.

Pick 34 often isn't much different from pick 21 since a "deep draft" might have 20 legit first-round selections. Then, you're often looking at comparable selections from 20-40ish.

@evansilva: Geno Smith was "uneven" at OTAs, "didn't wow anyone," struggled with "basic skills" like snap count&huddle presence: http://t.co/REuKEpwR1g

You dont' really run the spread option east west, tahts more hte old style of Nebraska type option.

When you run the option out of the shotgun as most teams who run the spread do, it's a downhill attack. Same thing as other option attacks, when you run the option, due to the formation and optioning players, you're going to have to leave a guy unblocked. In the NFL, I'm not a fan of that. There are ways QB's are taught to lessen blows when runnign the option, but being someone who just ran the spread option in high school from teh QB spot, meh, there really isn't any way around it.

How can you not think NFL defenses are much quicker?

QBOTF!!!!

Too bad we drafted that Braden Wilson guy instead of taking FB Shawn Asiata.

He's gonna be the best FB in the NFL in a few seasons. Guy's a god damn beast, and can also get outside and catch out of the backfield a little bit.

Yep. Dude has been analyzing fantasy football since '05, so I'm convinced.

Just running the option, from a QB perspective, you take so many hits. Not all monster shots, but just, well, hits.

Being that Alex Smith has a history of concussions, I don't like the idea of running the option.

And I'm going to assume that no one is going to reference Russell Wilson again, while discounting the importance of second-round picks.

That is NOT what I said at all, and you know it. Dishonesty doesn't look good on you.

Also, I do agree with Dane that 2 second round picks isn't too much to give up if Smith is what they hope/think he is.


But, 2nd rounders are still extremely valuable picks.

I know it isnt' what you said. I was paraphrasing what you were thinking.

No one is discounting them.

But there is conclusive data that suggests that the Chiefs haven't been able to identify long term, contributing players for more than 20 decades in the second round.

I think it's safe to say that Alex Smith is better than Mike Elkins.

They're only valuable if you hit.

He is a cant miss hall of famer!

If you put it that way, it's pretty safe to say we don't knwo what the hell we are doing in trading for QB's either. :evil:

So you want a hands on owner like Al Davis, Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones? Brilliant!

It's ok, football discussion doesn't look good on you either.

There isn't conclusive evidence that the KC Chiefs franchise cannot identify legit talent in the draft. There is, however, conclusive evidence that dumb ****s like Pioli and Grandpa cannot.

The Chiefs aren't jinxed; they simply repeat the same stupidity, and that's the result of, unbelievably, purposeful decisions.

Too bad we didn't pin all of our hopes on him. We would be SB bound with this superstar!

Coming from the guy with an undrafted Free agent, stating he is the future of the franchise as his sig, well, I dunno what to think. :thumb::p

Matt Cassel was an abortion even before the trade was consumated.

Alex Smith has had two seasons in which he's performed very well and several seasons earlier in his career in which he didn't perform well.

Any transaction of this type comes with risk.

No, you weren't. You were ASSUMING the WRONG thing. Because you don't know shit.

POS.

How would you define a successful season for the Chiefs in terms of overall record?

Carl Peterson rarely had success in the second round. Tim Grunhard was a nice 10 year starter and Reggie Tongue was decent. But outside of those guys and Brandon Flowers (who was a Herm/Kuharich selection), the cupboard was fairly bare.

Look around the NFL and you'll find similar stories.

I would like for you to tell me which QB should have been named starter for the 2013 season.

What should Hunt, Reid and Dorsey done?

I'm just curious to see how he does in a pass first offense.

I've already answered this. I would have given up a 4th rounder, no higher, for Smith. If this wouldn't have closed the deal--and no big deal if not---I would have acquired Flynn or Stanton.

None of these players are legit options. They're all stopgaps, so you have to try to get "value." Two second-round picks are not indicative of value; they're indicative of no Vaseline.

No, I was making fun of you, mainly, for being a guy that comes to a football message board and rarely, if ever, talks football.

Instead, just bitches.

But to each his own I guess.

It'd be nice if the pro Geno guys would atleast admit that the guy has looked terrible so far... shouldnt we atleast be hearing a few good things out of a NYC fanbase that would probably rather eat shit than go through another season with Sanchize?

The lack of hype and love he's getting out there is definitely strange...

3 wins.


It's teh Improvement!!!

Oh, and obviously I would have drafted a QB with the hint of being successful, such as Barkley, who would have been incredible value.

So your solution was Flynn or? Flynn wasn't available until April 1st, when the Raiders traded Palmer to Arizona.

So, if the Chiefs had waited until April to acquire a QB, don't you think there would have been a bidding war for Flynn's services? And if the Chiefs lost, who's their guy heading into 2013?

You're hypothesizing. You're not dealing in realistic terms.

According to the CP perspective QB's taken in the second round are flukes. The only way to win a SB is to get one in the first.

Point being you shall not have your cake and eat it too.

If you admit a QB can be had outside of the first round of the draft then you concede that they can be had anywhere.

Now that you bring up Barkley, I've been wondering about this, so lets discuss it.

Last year, he was the 3rd QB behind Luck and RGIII and would have been a top 5 pick likely. At the time, it would have been considered a great pick for said franchise. I was really hoping we could/would have taken him.

Then he goes back and has a woeful year and goes in the 4th IIRC.

How the hell were they that far off? Was he just a mirage early?

He'll only be viewed as "incredible value" if he plays in the NFL and plays well.

Kirk Cousins was a fourth rounder last year and while I thought he was good value, the people on Chiefsplanet said he sucked and that Stanzi was better.

It's impossible to predict "value" when a player hasn't stepped foot on the field.

QB's can be found anywhere. It's just that the first round is usually the place where you can find the guy with the most talent and the best chance to become a franchise guy.


But to think it's the only place to find one is crazy talk. It's just your best chance, if you play the odds.

Dude you had TG sucking off Leinart a year before he fell like a rock. Just like in the NFL it's what have you done for me lately.

I think the luster wore off of him once he was under increased scrutiny. He was one of the guys with Luck and RGIII, last year he was "the" guy and it started to show his weaknesses more. Plus the deflated football staory and injury did not help.

I can't count the number of times this offseason that I've seen people criticized for associating Alex Smith with past free agent or trade screw ups at QB. Because that wasn't Dorsey or Reid. It's a new day! The Chiefs have a clean slate!

So I guess the same must be true for the draft, as well.

Right?

My point had absolutely nothing to do with QBs, and everything to do with overall draft value.

And, Dane, Flynn was traded for a 5th in '14 and a conditional in '15. Pretty sure that "bidding war" would have been manageable.

But the larger point is that it doesn't matter. Pick a stopgap, any stopgap. Oh noez! We go 5-11 rather than 8-8!! Simply different smelling shit.

I think those guys get, deservedly or undeservedly, way over analyzed. I think Barkley would have been a good fit in Reid's typical WCO and I was hoping we would have grabbed him.

This. This and ****ing this.

If there is one thing that I don't like about this franchise in concern to QB's is that it doesn't matter who we draft, they have to have naked pics of Clarks wife to get on the field. For ****'s sake, we are getting our ass handed to us and Stanzi couldn't get a snap?

I think, hope, they're thinking they'll go better than 8-8.

Games will be starting soon, so we'll see.

I'll bet you my sig and a night with your sister that we finish over 500

Exactly, but drafting a second or third round caliber QB in round 1 does not suddenly guarantee success. The first round QBs who succeed usually come with first round grades. Russell Wilson would have been at least a top 10 pick had he been 2-3 inches taller. He had every quality you want in a franchise QB except height apparently.

There is no such thing as a "Sure Thing" in the NFL draft, especially in the second round.

Every move that is made is a risk. There is absolutely no doubt that it was a risky move to trade for Alex Smith but it would have been even riskier to reach on a QB that has very little chance to even play at the same level as Smith the past two seasons, let alone become a Franchise QB.

I'm still trying to figure out why anybody thought that either Cousins or Stanzi was worth a shit going into that draft.

His sister doesn't sleep with guys that have a robot heart

I didn't say anything about drafting a quarterback.

I'm having a really hard time even fathoming your perspective right now.

Drafts happen before players play NFL games, so we're forced to ascertain "value" before the latter happens.

Barkley was value. I don't give a flying **** how he performs. These are separate issues, and you know this. What the hell is going on?

I know you didn't ask me, but I expect a team that will be in contention for either AFC West champions or AFC Wild Card all season long. 2010, the bulk of this team was in the playoffs. 2011 they damn near made it without Charles and Berry the whole season... with Palko at the helm for part of the season. Succop makes a FG against the Faid, and the 2011 team is in. 2012 could have been the season, but Pioli saddled the team with his boy Gus. IMO, that is the sole reason for the 2-14 debacle. Haley wanted him gone... instead Haley got gone. RAC wanted Orton. Pioli would have none of it. RAC tried to change his stripes and say he backed Gus, but the players that were here knew better. Winston went to bat for Gus. Nobody else did. And I'm not just talking the injury thing.

Enter new regime and Smith. The players are already saying the chemistry is great. Bowe and Charles are talking career years. Things are looking up.

I'm expecting playoff contention all year long. Maybe even a playoff run. Stranger things have happened.

Indeed, sir... indeed.

I don't necessarily think height was the ONLY reason, but it was one of the few.

I want to see him do it longer before I crown him, but for what he is as a Qb he's in the perfect situation.

Situation is something that doesn't get talked about much on here, but it's a huge factor IMO. Kaep, Wilson, Cousins etc, all were drafted into the right situation.

I don't think it would have mattered who we would have taken the past 4 years, they weren't succeeding here.

I still think Cousins is worth a shit. Stanzi I don't know dick about but Cousins, to me looked good, and when he played at the next level did something.

This is also under the tyranny that was the Pioli regime. Things have changed. Hell Haley got fired for saying F you to Pioli by playing Palko.

It's a pig heart so....

Proudly displaying badgirl's quotation is far more important than anything the Chiefs could possibly do.

FTR Dane it's a moral dilemma every time I eat bacon, but in the end....Bacon always wins.

I got ran out of a thread the other day for saying we should make the playoffs and if we don't it's a failure of a season.

So watch it.

Here I tell you what. You get free reign of my sig and I get 1 line on yours. Bad girls stays the same. Also whatever I put on there must contain the word "pickle"

Oh it was height. Unless a QB is 6-2 or above it is assumed they can't succeed in the NFL. Any mention of Brees comes with an "he's the exception" comment. And I agree anyone here would have failed under the old regime.

and I hope so, but Haley played ****ing Palko. Why didn't he try the hand of Stanzi. That makes no sense.

I think Wilson is a scheme dependent QB. I don't think he could excel in a Brees type system but he's in a great situation in Seattle.

Technically anything less than winning the SB is a failure of a season. Every team strives to win the SB, not win 8 or 10 or 12 games etc......

I think this here is where you and I would get into a fundamental difference of opinion. If you can get the guy who can best run your ideal scheme then you are set, but I don't think that is that common. You build a scheme around a good athlete and I think that is what is you can best hope for.

I can handle it.

We may not make the playoffs. Depends on a lot of factors. But I really think this team should be in contention for either West title (Manning be damned) or Wild Card for nearly all of the 17 weeks.

I'll be totally shocked if we see something like last season when we didn't lead a game with the clock running until somewhere around Thanksgiving.

Because Stanzi was a guy Pioli drafted, Palko wasn't. He was the only QB on the roster that wasn't a true Pioli guy. No one had a shot as long as Cassel was healthy.

I don't knwo about the good athlete part, it's a plus, but not a have to have.

I think you get a guy thats versatile, but I do agree that you tweek your scheme to him. Which is what the Seahawks have done.

I think you have to figure out a way to mesh your philosophy to what the QB skillset is.