Mother****er that's sick

You idiot. I'm saying my parents passed on the same set of genes to my sister and I. I didn't breed with my sister. Christ.

Dude. A new level of sick just happened here.

Clay nicklebacked his sister?

You kind of proved a point, that is a 11 td dropoff out of the QB.. That is ****ing huge..

The biggest difference is that Vermiel offence was built to score points, Reid's offense is built to stretch the field sideline to sideline. If we score its a bonus.

Priest and Trent would fail here just as Smith and Jamaal'd are.

In Andy's last year in Philly, a rookie Nick Foles threw 27 passes over 21 yards IN THE AIR (not total gain...per espn splits) out of 265 throws. That's just about 1 out of every 10 throws was over 20 yards.

This year, Alex Smith only threw 18 total passes over 20 yards in the air (again, from espn splits) out of 465 throws. That's only 1 out of 26 passes.

You can't sit back and put that on Andy Reid...

WOW

I got into it a little more.

Out of 465 passes last year by Alex...he only completed 3 passes that traveled 20 yards in the air.

3

LMAOLMAOLMAO

I'm glad I don't have to do this research anymore.

It's not worth it anymore. People can smell this turd for miles.

Whatever dude, you still ****ed your sister.

You're hilarious!

Absolutely I can and will continue to do so until Reid takes away the easy dump offs, check downs and short 3 yard crossing routes.

Until Reid forces Smith to go all 90's Raiders, it will always be Reid's fault for giving Smith the keys to the easy horizontal offense.

Hey Daniels did the same damn thing in the Chargers game... Short dumps, - 5 yard passes, sacks in the redzone, etc....

That's coaching, not the players.

He might be funny, but Nicklebacking your sister is pretty ****ing sick dude...

As a rookie in Andy Reid's offense, Foles only threw 64% of his passes within 10 yards in the air from the line of scrimmage. That's with him learning one of the biggest playbooks in pro sports, leading the team and playing a tough schedule. Mind you, the guy had Shady McCoy to dump the ball off and had enough balls and confidence in his ability to forego the low hanging fruit and go for the chunk yards to put points on the board.

Last year, Alex Smith threw 80% of his passes 10 yards in the air or less. That's in his second year in the system with plenty of guys to throw to that have just as much speed as they had in Philly. DAT, Wilson, Kelce, Charles and Davis are all speed burners.

Id bet anything that if we had Foles instead of Smith last year, it would have helped this OL a lot as would have forced teams to defend the whole field...not just 10 yards of it.

:facepalm:

Andy isn't out there throwing the passes, dude.

And Chase wasn't much better, but if you couldn't tell that he was trying to push the ball and throw into tighter windows...nobody can help you.

IMO, I'd like to see them draft a quarterback in the first 3 rounds that can sit 1-2 years before taking the job from Alex if he doesn't improve at forcing defenses to defend the whole field.

If they don't make a significant investment at the position, I won't be convinced that they are gonna be relentless at actually trying to win a title during Andy Reid's tenure.

Please tell me you haven't bred either.

Truth.

The Colts have used 10 different O-line combinations in 16 games. 10. The Indy line is pathetic, IMO, one of the worst in the league. That problem was exacerbated when Bradshaw, their best pass catcher, went down for the year.

They have NO running game, at all. Against Dallas they ran it 10 times for 1 yard. TRich is slower than Andy Reid and Herron is a 3rd stringer, at best.

If the Colts are going to win this year, Andrew Luck HAS to carry them.

Now, having said all that, I do agree that he's regressed some this year. But only because he's trying to do to much. He's trying to hang on that one extra second when he doesn't have the time b/c of that horrific line.

LMAO

40 TDs

"regressed"

LMAO

I would LOVE to see this board's reaction if Alex Smith carried the Chiefs to 11-5.

already broke this down for you, Clay

not my fault you want to plug your ears and make noise

Have to believe they are planning on Bray or Murray in developing as a starter.

Andrew Luck is headed to the HOF and you're sitting here talking shit.

lol @ you

Hey, I'm a Colts fan calling it like I see it.

I think Luck is an elite qb already. I also happen to think he's regressed some this year, mainly in the area of turnovers.

he certainly has hall of fame potential, no one has said otherwise

he had a mediocre year this year; there is really no other way to spin it

Andrew Luck was mediocre this year. Probably the 10th best QB this year.

LMAO

Well, I guess I'm never going to call Alex mediocre ever again.

Nah, he led the league in td passes. Colts have the number one passing offense in the league with a sieve of an offensive line and no running game. That's not mediocre.

Lucks problem this year is his misplaced faith in the offensive line.

I think we probably would have won 10-11 games with Andrew Luck this year

It's funny that Clay is referencing Andrew Luck like he actually watched him this year, though. Because clearly he didn't.

I want to say about 50% of it is playcall, which is a huge hamstring to the offense. The Oakland loss was clear evidence of this. ULTRA conservative playcall in the first half crippled the team and lost the game. Every play was either a draw, crossing route or screen. Completely vanilla. When he started opening the playbook and spreading it out in the second half the offense moved the ball at will.

Would you quit with this shit. All I ****ing do with my weekends is watch football.

And we would have won 12 games, minimum, with Andrew Luck.

Luck + elite RB + elite defense = serious contender.

he had a 20 : 2 TD/INT ratio against Jax / Tenn / Was / NYG

take out the bottom dwellers on his slate (those 6 games) and he did this:

20 TD's
21 turnovers

he also commonly padded that #1 passing offense in games where they were blown out from the game (for example, Pittsburgh; New England; Denver)

But it's fine. Continue making excuses for his mediocre year by blaming his offensive line and his running game.

I'm closing in on coming to terms that Andrew Luck, Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers are going to get excuses any time they play poorly. Two of those guys deserve the benefit of the doubt. One of them doesn't.

With Luck we easily beat Arizona and Oakland and probably San Francisco.

That's 12 wins right there.

Luck had 24 turnovers. There is no way to assume anything with Andrew Luck. Especially with the Chiefs offensive line and receivers.

Luck would have ran a similar gameplan to what Reid is running with Alex Smith.

Luck fumbled 13 times with the Colts this year. How many fumbles would he have had with our offensive line? At least 13.

So anything Luck adds to our team with a vertical passing attack ... his carelessness with the ball takes back away from it.

I see Luck as being about 1 - 1.5 wins better than Alex Smith at this point in his career.

Protecting the football is kind of important if you're a QB.

13 fumbles
8 fumbles lost

that's really, really alarming

Just ignore our vastly superior running game and defense, Hootie.

I am not ignoring that one bit.

NFL QB's can't turn the ball over 24 times.

Your entire premise is Luck would win 12+ games because he'd open up our vertical passing attack.

In order to do that, he'd have to have a solid pocket to throw from.

Indy fan is telling us Luck trusted his line too much this year even though they were incredibly porous.

What would change in KC?

Would Luck not trust our incredibly porous line?

Would he suddenly start protecting the ball when he got hit?

Would his lack of pocket not lead to a comparable amount of interceptions (16) he had in Indy?

Would our inferior receivers really be able to take the top off of the defense like T.Y. and Donte?

Grass is always greener, Clay. The problems Luck is having in Indy would be magnified in KC offensively.

Unless, of course, he relied on our ELITE running game and ELITE defense to win games ... you know ... like Alex Smith.

So yes, if Andrew Luck ran our offense like Alex Smith with his ability to throw the ball down the field more accurately and freely ...

I could see us winning about 10 or 11 games but Andrew Luck would throw for around 4000 yards (tops) and 25 TD's (tops) ... because, you know, the Chiefs would rely on Jamaal Charles and our vastly superior defense ... because, you know, if not Andrew Luck would be prone to 24 turnovers which, in turn, loses football games.

As evidenced by Luck and the Colts performance against Denver, New England, Dallas, Pittsburgh and Philly.

I could cherry pick stats to make ANYONE look bad.

At any rate, if you want to call leading the league in td passes, 3rd in yards, and 7th in qb rating "mediocre", than I don't know what to tell you. :shrug:

the traditional QB rating stat is meaningless

leading the league in TD passes and yards doesn't mean a whole lot more

I'm more confused why an elite QB like Andrew Luck is getting blown out against every other elite QB he faced (Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger, Romo)?

Oh I know.

Because Luck isn't there yet. He's just not. But I realize his name is Andrew Luck so he's amazing.

Andrew Luck turns the ball over because the defense and lack of running game put more pressure on him. You're acting like he's Jake Plummer and just does stupid things constantly.

With that pressure relieved, his turnovers would be much lower.

So Clay

with our line and our receivers

hypothetically

how many sacks would Luck have taken? how many turnovers (INT + fumbles)? how many passing yards? how many TD's?

What would your hypothetical numbers be for Andrew Luck as the Chiefs QB for this 2014 squad?

I'd say about 4000 yards, 30 TD, 15 total turnovers.

Would do wonderful things with Bowe and Kelce.

Jamaal Charles takes a TREMENDOUS amount of pressure off of any qb. So does a defense that's better than 23rd in the league. Those two factors can't be overstated.

A question for you, Hootie-where do you think the Colts would be with Alex Smith? Certainly not in the playoffs, not in my opinion.

The Texans finished 9-7, 2 games behind Indy. Without Luck, there's no way we win the division.

No idea.

The Texans beat Buffalo with EJ Manuel and the Ravens when Flacco started the game like 4 - 30

2 wins against teams with winning records.

Buffalo
Baltimore

The AFC South is a joke.

Luck beat :

Baltimore
Houston X 2
Cincy

The entire division's best quality wins were Indy/Hou over Baltimore and Tennessee over KC (week 1)

It's ****ing pathetic.

Alex Smith's team with Alex Smith starting beat Tom Brady, Phil Rivers, Russell Wilson, Buffalo with Orton, and Miami.

That includes Buffalo, San Diego and Miami all on the road.

Luck had 1 road win against a winning team this year (Houston).

I fail to see a reason why I should be impressed with Andrew Luck in 2014 and why I think he's worth 3 more wins than Alex Smith when all of his shortcomings would still be an issue in KC.

Continue next post

Things would be easier for him in KC, though. Puzzling that you can't see that.

and if your whole premise is

"If Luck was in KC with Jamaal Charles, that would help!"

Well sure ... if Andrew Luck didn't have to throw the ball as much because our OL can't pass block and we relied on Jamaal Charles and the short passing game because our receivers can't take the top off of the defense ...

I am positive Andrew Luck wouldn't have 24 turnovers.

However, wouldn't that just be Andrew Luck running the Alex Smith offense?

Andrew Luck is very talented. He'd run Reid's system better than Alex Smith.

3 wins better than Smith?

No, I don't think so.

In fact, we should have won 11 or 12 games with Smith this year anyways, but the ball bounces funny sometimes.

I stick with my assessment that right now, in 2014, Andrew Luck is worth 1 - 1.5 more wins for a team than Alex Smith. They excel at different aspects of QB'ing.

Luck clearly has more god given ability.

And the defense. Having a top 5 defense would help Luck tremendously.

To say we wouldn't have beaten Arizona, Oakland and San Fran with Luck...LMAO

Come on, man.

While we probably would have beaten those teams, we might also have lost to someone else because of a turnover of something.

Luck is obviously better, but he still makes alot of mistakes he probably shouldn't be

the Chiefs are going to win 9 - 12 games next year with Smith at QB.

This year, the Chiefs weren't competitive in two games: Week 1 against Tennessee and week 14 against Denver.

we have a lot of picks to shore up our team next year and I assume with an easier schedule and better players we are geared towards competing next year, albeit with a limited QB (as we've all seen)

before the season started I assumed we were going to be better this year than we were last year with less wins

7-3 got everyone's hopes up but we were always a flawed team; a makeshift line, no deep threat, several key injuries, and QB play that wasn't good enough in the 3rd quarter of the season

I will predict right now that when we're 7-3 after 10 games next year, the whole board will be still debating this silly issue and I'll still be tired of it.

In fact, I'm penalizing myself the rest of the day. I'm not talking any more Andrew Luck or Alex Smith until Wild Card weekend completes itself.

It's exhausting.

So wait. The guy that ran the #1 passing O, sucks.

But the guy who ran the last place passing O, is good.

Is that was this thread is?

and that's why football talk on this forum is moronic

I sat there and posted an hour worth of fact based posts, with hypotheticals and explained my thought process and reasoning

and people conclude that I think

Andrew Luck sucks and Alex Smith is good.

****ing morons.

The AFC South is a joke, no question about it.

The Colts are a terribly flawed team though. They have maybe 3 decent pieces on defense-Vontae Davis, Jerrell Freeman and an aging Cory Redding. Outside of them, they may not have a legitimate NFL starter.

The offensive line has one guy who started every game. The LT Costanzo. The rest of the line has been a revolving door of injuries and curious coaches decisions. Reggie Wayne has been hurt on top of being washed up. Trent Richardson is permanently stuck in concrete. Moncrief has shown flashes but is to inconsistent. Dwayne Allen is good but he's been hurt too. Hilton and Fleener have been Lucks only consistent weapons and consequently, other teams game plan on that.

All of that makes Lucks job much MUCH tougher. The fact that he's had such a good season is a testament to how good he really is.

Thanks for the debate. I agree with most of your points. Good luck to your Colts on Sunday.

While your take on Luck is shortsighted, you make a nice case for Smith and the competition we faced this year compared to guys like Luck etc.

I'm still ready to move on from Smith, but you do make a good point on his behalf and for those of us that used to have his back.... some of these other divisions had some reeeal shit competition.

I think it's far from a certainty, given Andy's play calling in those game.

:Lin:

A little late, but let me just pop in and say that Carl and Herm did Trent dirty not bringing him back in '07. Carl went cheap ass to get LJ signed and Herm should have never ****ed with the offense. That is all.

Trent was 0-6 after the trade. At least Carl negotiated a draft pick for him, which led to drafting Brandon Albert via Detroit and Minnesota in the Jared Allen deal.

Thanks and good luck to the Chiefs.

We may get by Cincy but no further than that.

We would probably be the afc Super Bowl favorite with Luck at QB.

Jmo

I don't remember Detroit being involved with the Allen trade. I thought his 1st and 3rd picks from Minny alone brought us Albert and Jamaal?

And yeah, Trent was not even close to the guy he was here in Miami. He was in the perfect system with the perfect players around him with the Chiefs. I still don't understand what Herm was thinking when he changed up the offense with Solari. Hell, he even said he wasn't changing anything when he came here in his press conference, lol.

If we're just rampantly speculating, there's no way Kelce gets called for a fumble in the Ariz game is the pass had come from Luck.

No was Vonn Miller tattoos the bridge of his helmet on the shoulder blades of a Luck jersey without repercussion either.

Not sure that's a job skill I'd necessarily hang my hat on, but every little bit helps.

Yeah, Detroit was involved with a deal with Minnesota which affected which picks we ultimately received through Minnesota (and Detroit).

Because Herm?

If anything, it was a sad way for a guy like Trent Green to go out in Kansas City. I think he was probably the most liked QB since Len Dawson and his send off was quite unceremonious.

Agreed. You could argue that Trent has been the second best quarterback to ever throw a pass for the Chiefs. Like I said, Carl did him (at least a bit) dirty.

Iirc we moved up a spot or 2 with them to draft Albert.

I think the pick we used to do so was the one we got from the Trent Green trade.

LMAO You should get help for your crack addiction.

This is the only explanation for your perspective on Luck.