![]() |
Would we even be having this argument if Mahomes was left handed?
But one more time for “some people”. Best case scenario, Taylor makes the switch without a problem, Niang steps up to be a outstanding RT. Smith becomes a relativity cheap insurance policy and Morris red-shirts with a few snaps in mop up duty, becoming the RT in 2024. Option B is Smith starts at LT, Taylor stays at RT and Morris red-shirts/backup Smith. After the season, we say goodbye to Smith and hand him a lovely parting gift of a SB ring, Morris is the LT in 2024. As mentioned before, there are a lot of teams that have 2 good EDGE guys, we may be one of them. If you want more weapons not having to keep a TE or RB out of the pattern because you need a chip blocker seems to be a good place to start. The bottom line is we have to keep PMII upright and endorsement pretty because our fate lies with him. Sorry, Gabbert is no Magic Moore so no miracles seem to be on the horizon. |
So what IS the best-case scenario for the Chiefs' OL?
Best-case for 2023 would be: Donovan Smith returning to his 2021 form LT, allowing Jawaan Taylor to play RT, and giving the Chiefs the same level of play from LT-RG they received in 21 and 22 (or slightly better, given Smith's talents are a better fit for this style of offense), with Taylor providing a massive upgrade at RT. This would be the best offensive line in football, Smith would get paid at the end of the year, and it would likely pay off with a comp pick for KC. Best-case long-term would be: Wanya Morris blossoms under the wing of Heck, and by the end of the year is entrenched as the starter at RT, while Taylor has smoothly transitioned to LT and is providing above-average play there. Now you're set at the tackles for 2024, 25, and 26. You still have one more cheap year of Humphrey and Smith, and you're likely in your last year with Joe Thuney at LG. So you draft a LG to develop, probably pay Creed Humphrey, and play out 2024 with the same OL starters, before working in 1-2 new guys at G in 2025. |
Best case scenario would be:
Taylor successfully transitioning to LT and locking down the LT position for the remainder of his contract. Niang stays healthy and proves that he's the RT they envisioned in this offense. Smith is our insurance policy for LT. Morris gets a redshirt year and becomes our swing tackle moving forward. |
If what you’ve quoted below is true, I hate the trade up for Wanya Morris. He’s a better fit at RT. KC traded with Cincinnati, giving up picks No. 95 and 217 — a sixth-round compensatory selection — to get No. 92. We could have stayed at 92 and picked several good players. Why trade up to get a RT if we are planning to play Taylor at RT and we have Niang, Remmers and Prince that we can play at RT? That’s a lot of draft capital to spend on Wanya if they penciled in Taylor at RT.
I think the chiefs are just trying to get as much depth as possible and they will give Taylor a shot at the LT spot. If he struggles, they will move him back and put smith in at LT. He’s an insurance policy and a cheap one if Taylor doesn’t adjust or in case of injury. They will let these guys compete and put the best 5 starters on the field. Quote:
|
Man too many people on this board are obsessed with Comp picks. Yeah it would be nice, but who really cares. If it happens it happens.
Smith is a rental, there is absolutely no way he is on the team after this year. We have big decisions to make with Creed and Smith, and that's were the Chiefs need to spend their money. At this point you have to trust Veach and the front office as well as the coaches. I don't think Smith is the second coming, but I feel a whole lot better after adding him to the roster just from a depth perspective. Perhaps the thing that has been overlooked with Taylor is that he's already 10x the leader than OBJ was. This dude is willing to do whatever is best for the team, you want him at RT fine. You want him at LT - cool. That was never the case for Brown, and frankly I think that is the only reason he's not on this roster. What a refreshing change. |
Niang isn’t doing anything here. Might as well accept that now
|
Quote:
Veach clearly felt like they'd run out of guys they really wanted to get their hands on. Karl Brooks, Kei'Trel Clark, JL Skinner, Kayshon Boutte, Trey Palmer, AT Perry, Zack Kuntz - a lot of guys were still on the board at that point and at that moment in time Veach decided that none of them were worth using a 6th round pick on. And you're getting wound up about moving pick 217? We traded the first pick of the 6th round for a pick that's probably gonna be maybe 10 picks ahead of that next season. And you 'hate' that we gave up the last pick of said round? Who ****ing cares? You walk about the quality players we could've drafted at 95 but that's immaterial as we could've taken any of them at 92. The only relevant consideration is the pick they gave up to get it done and Veach demonstrated, loud and clear, that the pick was simply irrelevant to him. |
Quote:
When I was thinking about best case for 2023, that was a distant, secondary factor. |
Quote:
Wanya Morris played most of his college career at LT. Taylor at LT is cool, but you've got Niang who can't stay healthy so far, and Winnebago, and that's it at RT. Smith is a really nice contingency plan. Morris has some technique issues, but is superior athletically. As in definite starter material as a physical prospect. I disagree completely with your entire argument. Respectfully. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Quote:
Niang had lost his job well before he blew up his knee. Then he wasn't able to take it back the following season. Andy will make changes on the line in-season. He's done it more than people acknowledge, though yes - the other guy has to clearly TAKE the job. The backup ain't winning any close questions. But doesn't that say loud and clear that Niang got outclassed by Wylie to lose his job and then not be able to re-gain it? It just seems like Niang hasn't gained any traction here despite several opportunities. The team doesn't - and shouldn't - trust him. |
You can keep Creed and possibly Smith if Morris develops into a starting LT>
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
And since the pick at 178 was traded for a nominal upgrade a season later, it is fairly obvious that Veach simply put little/no value on the picks by then. That's why I noted 'at that point in time' - because at 178 Veach didn't HAVE to project - he knew who was on the board; all those guys I named. And he traded the pick anyway. He showed his cards on the bet he was making w/r/t the value of 217 when he traded away 178. You're grousing about hypotheticals when no hypotheticals are necessary or appropriate. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
It's going to be Smith at LT and Taylor at RT this year, though. Nothing else makes any sense barring a meteoric rise from one of the young guys. Those are your two best tackles on the roster, and it's not remotely close right now. Reid has never had a problem paying RTs top dollar going back to his Philly days. He's going to protect Mahomes as priority number one. |
Quote:
Quote:
While duncan's idea isn't bad, there's just no chance we have landed a quality left tackle in May for roughly $4m. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
I know I'm not. Not worried at all, actually. Taylor is going to win the LT spot. |
Quote:
I'd say at this point anything you get from him is extra, would not count on much. |
Quote:
I like this move a lot. Still doesn't mean I think he's going to start at LT but I like the move regardless. |
Financially, if Morris took off and developed into your LT, that's the ideal situation.
|
Quote:
|
I'm posting this again for all of the people that may have missed it from Nate Taylor's latest article.
Quote:
|
Quote:
He's going to come in here, compete, and provide insurance. If he actually wins a starting job, it's gravy. But that's not their "plan" at all. |
Good ol off season OL threads...
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
And for all of the people who will claim that Veach talked about Taylor as LT just as a smokescreen so he could trade up for a LT.
Why wouldn't he just sign Donovan Smith before the draft? It does the same thing and eliminates anyone thinking that you're going to draft an OT in the first round. If you go into the draft with Donovan Smith as your LT and Jawaan Taylor as your RT, then no one expects you to trade up for one. You'll never convince me that Taylor isn't their Plan A at LT and Donovan Smith is their Plan B if Taylor doesn't transition well. |
Wasn’t sure where to post this. But added another OL prospect from our over seas program.
Chiefs Add Offensive Line Help Through International Player Pathway Program Kansas City lands an intriguing offensive line talent through one of the NFL's overseas initiatives. Jordan FooteMay 4, 2023 9:44 AM EDT An offseason ago, the Kansas City Chiefs added defensive lineman Kehinde Oginni Hassan via the NFL's International Player Pathway (IPP) program. While Oginni Hassan didn't last too long in Kansas City, the reach of the IPP began to spread more than it had in the past. The 2023 IPP class also sees the Chiefs land some more help in the trenches, this time on the other side of the ball. On Thursday morning, the NFL announced this year's international class via a Twitter thread. In that thread, the African country Nigeria has representative Chukwuebuka Jason Godrick coming to Kansas City: Godrick, whose nickname is "Chu" according to American Football International, is one of six players from Nigeria who were selected to participate in the NFL's IPP combine. AFI notes that Godrick was a primary basketball athlete who is attempting to transition over to football, and its article also has an excerpt in which a pair of brothers detail how they believe Godrick's natural athleticism in basketball will help him become "a top tier athlete" overall. Here's a bit more directly from the NFL on what the IPP is all about: Established in 2017, the NFL International Player Pathway program aims to provide elite athletes from around the world with the opportunity to earn a spot on an NFL roster and increase the number of international players in the League. Godrick, who is 6-foot-5 and weighs 295 pounds according to AFI's article, is expected to soon join his new teammates in Kansas City and begin competing throughout the rest of the offseason. He's one of eight IPP players in this year's class to earn that chance in the NFL — one player for every team in the AFC West and NFC North. If Godrick doesn't make the 53-man roster to begin the season, the Chiefs can still keep him around on the practice squad if they have that desire. The NFL grants clubs with IPP players a special practice squad exemption that would allow for an additional spot on the final practice squad total. That is a far more likely outcome for Godrick than a straight-up roster spot assuming he remains with the Chiefs organization, which would still give both sides more time to develop his profile in an effort to form another productive IPP experience while also not forcing him into in-game action. Read More: After Option Decision, Clyde Edwards-Helaire Enters Career-Defining Stretch |
Quote:
Look guys...he NFL is a tough business and things aren't always going to go your way no matter how good your front office is, so intelligent GMs (Like BV) leave themselves with plenty of options. |
Quote:
One way or another, we are going to have far better tackle play this year because you will either have Smith and Taylor out there, or Taylor will thrive at LT and Niang/Morris will ball out and end up as one of our 2 best tackles. This gives you many different options without having to force anything. It's a win-win move all around and we finally have depth at the position, which is so reassuring. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
And don't tell me Eric Fisher because that was a rookie. They signed Taylor, talked about his ability to make the switch and now suddenly before OTAs even get here....they're saying **** it for a year? |
Quote:
Smith came here to provide depth and insurance, knowing that if he excels, he may get a chance to start. Like you said, this gives them several options. But that's all it is right now - options. |
I think it would be pretty naive to think Donovan Smith isn’t the leader in the clubhouse at this point for the LT position. Obviously there’s a competition but I think ultimately it’s gonna be Smith/Taylor, and that says nothing about Taylor or his ability to play LT.
I still come back to RT and how much of a disaster it is. If Niang or Wanogho were viable options, they wouldn’t have enough in a vet starting LT, paid big money for a vet RT and also traded up for a 5 star recruit with the physical/athletic profile that fits this offense. I don’t see Niang/Wanogho being anywhere ahead of the depth chart for those 3. I think they’re battling for that 4th and final spot. IMO the only path to Taylor starting at LT with Smith on the bench is if Morris shows he is ready to start at RT like Creed and Trey showed in their rookie years. At the moment that could happen, but I think the more likely avenue here is Smith/Taylor with Morris as the swing tackle preparing for a starting role in 2024. |
Quote:
Smith was in roughly the same tier as Orlando Brown for a 2-3 year stretch in the middle of his career (that started at the same time as many OT begin playing their best football), culminating in a 2021 season in which his play was at its peak and probably would have actually been a better fit for KC due to his superior movement skills. His 2022 was a nightmare, sure. But if that was injury and stuff off the field dragging him down, the 2021 version could pop right back up. I'm not pinning hopes on it or anything... I don't think it's incredibly likely. But that stands out to me as the way the line is better in 2023 than 2022. LT returns to the level of play the Chiefs had there in 21, RT is drastically improved. Maybe they can get to that with Taylor at LT, too, if he takes to the different side easily and quickly. It doesn't seem hard to upgrade at RT from Wylie if you throw enough bodies at it. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
They signed Smith for roughly $4M. The $9M will never be met. He's a backup with a chance to compete. If you think the "plan" right now is to pencil in Smith as a starter, you're just plain wrong. |
If their plan this entire time was to start Smith at LT and Taylor at RT...then Smith would have been signed before the draft.
|
Quote:
|
Does that mean that I don't think Smith could beat out Taylor and Taylor could move to RT? No, I don't.
They could get into OTAs and Taylor just isn't picking it up as fast as they thought he could. At the same time, Niang and Prince look like shit while Morris is a 3rd round rookie. If Smith is borderline competent, then they would start him at LT and move Taylor back to the right side. That's worst case scenario though and goes against anything Veach has said about finding a long-term LT solution. |
Quote:
And he started 13 games last year so they can't be games started or snaps incentives (because every incentive up to 13 starts would be LTBE and thus would count immediately on this year's cap). They have to be 'performance based' and for an OL, that can really only be post-season accolates, right? So he probably has a Pro Bowl escalator and almost definitely has escalators for both the AFCCG and SB (appearances and wins). And even THOSE are likely tied to snap share. This world where he makes $9 million without establishing himself as a quality player just doesn't exist. Either he'll show to be back to his 2021 form and earns a starting job, then the Chiefs are very successful and he gets paid. Or he isn't very good, we didn't need him as anything more than LT insurance/backup, and he makes veteran backup money. It's just...duh. |
I think I probably agree with Run here. If Taylor is the LT, you aren't gonna play Smith at RT so you would let the other 3 battle it out. Could really go south on you.
If you think Smith can play well at LT, leave Taylor at RT, let Morris learn the LT spot then next year you're fine. |
Quote:
People can't separate emotion from analysis. Do I want Taylor to start at LT? No, not necessarily. I want the best guy to win the job. If that's Smith, great. If it's Taylor, great. I really don't care. Do I think Taylor WILL start at LT? Absolutely, he's athletically superior to every other OT on the team, including Smith. This is not about what I want and never has been. This is about what I think the Chiefs will do. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
JFC man, THINK about this. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
I have no vested interest in Smith being a starter, right now it just looks like the most likely scenario. If Niang gets his shit together and earns the job, great. I just can't see it happening, he has given no reason to think otherwise. Everyone is just spit balling right now, we don't have a clue what they're going to do. In the end, Veach and Reid aren't going to give a shit about what they said about Taylor in April. They will put the two best tackles out there to protect the best player on planet Earth. That is the one and only priority, not making sure they don't look bad for saying one thing and doing another. |
Quote:
But I also think Smith/Taylor is a better T group than Taylor/ other 3 shitbirds. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
Think man, use your brain. |
Quote:
I don't know why everyone is so emotional about this. |
The Jets, who could use a LT, and were obviously pissed that they missed out on Broderick Jones just let Donovan Smith go the reigning Super Bowl champs for pennies on the dollar.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
They're going to be really upset when Taylor trots out there at LT in September. |
Quote:
I think Smith will be given every opportunity to win the LT job, and the team is probably hoping that he does. Sucks that a longterm solution didn't arise this offseason, and we will likely be looking for a LT again soon. I'm also in the camp that a superior RT in Taylor would be fantastic. If he's forced to move to LT due to other circumstances, I'm sure he would do great there. But I'd rather keep him in the position he has dominated and have a healthy (hopefully) Smith on the other side this season. Again, if Smith at LT is worse than moving Taylor over and starting an unproven at RT, sobeit. But that's not the ideal situation with this signing. |
It's pretty funny that last week Donovan Smith wasn't on anyone's list of players the Chiefs should sign because he stunk last year but now that they have signed him people are penciling him in as the automatic starter because he's played LT before.
|
Quote:
You play the best 2 guys, and you play them at the positions that suit them best. Even if Taylor is the best LT, what if he's also the best RT (obviously) and Smith is clearly the second best tackle overall? You don't keep him on the bench so you can play guys who aren't as good as him just because they're young. Just put the best guys on the field, and that's what they'll do. |
Quote:
|
The competition for LT isn’t as simple as Taylor vs smith. If Niang or morris suck at RT, and smith looks good at LT, then Taylor will play RT. For Taylor to play LT, someone has to emerge as a quality starter at RT. Again competition will bring the best out of these guys and this move gives us lots of options.
|
Quote:
He hasn't just "played LT before." He started 120+ games and won a Super Bowl as a LT. He's not just some guy. If he can return to his previous form, he's a very good player. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Andy’s backup tackles the last 2 year were Niang and Wanogho. Before that it was Yasir Durant. I don’t think they bring in a vet like this if both tackle positions are set. Again believe what you will but I’m inclined to believe that the Chiefs called the Cowboys to get ahead of the Jags for Anton Harrison. As much as I like FAU he wasn’t our first choice. We ended up staying and taking the value. IMO this is a direct shot at Lucas Niang. If he wasn’t a brokedick and showed his talent, our tackles are Taylor and Niang. But he’s a complete wild card. He’s had 2 major injuries for a lineman. It’s possible Veach doesn’t trust him anymore. Believe what you’d like, but I’m believing actions over words. The last 2.5 months we have brought in 2 vet starting tackles and traded up for a 5 star recruit that fits this offense perfectly. They saw that Taylor could play either side, but recognized that they don’t trust Niang or Wanogho to start. I think Morris is the Niang replacement who will end up being the swing tackle. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
For all we know, they could trot Smith out there at RT. All we know at this point is that there will be competition. |
Quote:
That makes no sense, and that's not the way they're going to view it. They would like Niang or Morris to make this a non-issue, but I wouldn't bet on it right now, and clearly they aren't either. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
If Taylor is the best LT on the team, and I'm supremely confident he is, they're not going to move him to RT just to patch a hole. That's not what they do. |
Quote:
What I'm saying is that isn't going to happen. They'll find a solution at RT that doesn't require moving their best LT to the right side. |
Quote:
|
Considering how many times Jacksonville traded down, they didn't think anyone else wanted Harrison...
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
The Chiefs aren't going to do that. They said the reason they let OBJ go was because they thought he was going to be a long-term solution and his demands pushed him beyond the point of keeping him. When you combine what they say they want with age, injury, and athleticism, the best long-term strategy is to put Taylor at LT in 2023 and the placeholder at RIGHT tackle. Not the other way around. |
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:14 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.