But then you're paying top dollar AND trading away at least a 1st round pick.

And that's assuming that a team like the 49ers or Bengals are willing to trade and for a reasonable price.

It's really not that simple.

Your talent assessment was WAY off.

Baltimore WR's > KC WR's.


If Mahomes switched WR's with Lamar, Mahomes is getting 3rd MVP and we have the #1 seed.

Pay twice? I'd rather not.

Yeah. And you get the better player.

The guys in FA are in FA for a reason.

They have to do both.

If we had been hitting on WR's previously then we would not have to acquire in FA.

You can't trust production from draft picks unless you are not planning to try to win a SB next year.

Rice is a better athlete and a better asset than JuJu from last year but he is still a rookie learning. You need to have guys the QB can trust to play the game from the start.

And it's never just a 1st rd pick. AJ Brown got traded for a 1st and 3rd, and they had the 18th pick. The 26th-30th pick is not as valuable.

So you're pissing away all your draft resources and money

He's their 4th WR...if MVS was our 4 people would be less upset.

They don't have the best WR group in the league or anything but they did attack the position. It has 2 1st round picks and a cheap vet mixed with a former star.

Also the argument isn't "hey Rice is having a better year than Flowers" or that he's better than any of Baltimore's guys because Rice isn't the issue. The issue is everyone else, we have 1 WR where they have 3.

As an overall group we are at the bottom of the damn league, but that is what happens with low investment in the position.

Pissing away money and resources.....for a top 3 all pro?

I mean, it cost alot. The reward for them has been....pretty much worth it.

They've invested, just not first rounders. If that's what it's gonna take, do it.

It isn't just about 1's either. We have low investment in the position compared to many teams.

We have 2 2's, if you are going to go with 2's then you have to turn around and re-invest. Pittsburgh is a great example of this, they used 2's on Juju, James Washington and George Pickens but they also used a 4 on Diontae Johnson.

It works for them because they just keep swinging. Also there is something to be said for what types of swings you take, are you swinging at raw elite talent?Or you swinging at a technician, or are you taking a blind swing because honestly Skyy Moore feels kinda that way, he isn't a toolsy athletic guy or a refined technician..so uh what is he?

I just don't think it's realistic for KC to trade and then pay for a guy now that Mahomes is on the big deal.

It made sense when he was on a rookie deal (or at least more, I know some guys I respect would say you never do it). You could at least work it into the cap situation. Now, though?

You don't do it unless there are no alternatives. Like when KC traded for Orlando Brown. There were no viable alternatives in FA and the draft wasn't going to provide an answer.

There are too many viable alternatives in FA for me to be on-board with trading picks for Aiyuk and then giving him the big deal.

Trading a pick for a guy who's on an existing deal and willing to keep playing on it is more palatable, but it's hard to guess what will open up there. I don't see the Seahawks moving Metcalf, or the Commanders moving McLaurin, or the Bucs moving Godwin. Maybe there's a deal like that out there, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting on it or pin the whole offseason plan on it.

Even at $20M year for Mike Evans or Marquise Brown, that's still a lower AAV than a guy like Aiyuk is going to get if traded, plus you keep the draft capital and add a cost-effective, high-quality talent.

So it's GREAT WR (for a 1st+ that you then sign to a market value contract like DJ Moore's) vs. really good FA WR + $5-7M in AAV cap space + a 1st round pick + whatever other draft capital you had to surrender.

I like that second scenario a lot more, and it's a lot more consistent with how the Chiefs seem to be building now that Mahomes is on his big deal.

Hamstring injury his 1st year (covid year) cut his season in half, in his 2nd year, a scooter accident/surgery cut him off, third year was a new QB/system implementation, that offseason, he worked out with Deebo in the summer and then became a stud. Is he the guy? No idea, but he doesn't appear to be an MVS-cardio guy that couldn't catch or get open.

I've settled on Mike Evans

They also had to keep swinging because the ones they had they didn't resign.

If you have an elite guy, you don't need to keep drafting guys early. The Vikings drafted another one in Addison....great, now their defense sucks and they don't have a qb under contract.

They drafted 2 of those guys while Antonio Brown was there...

Minnesota has made a ton of bad picks over the last few years other than WR's.

The issue is the "really good" wr's, are more likely than not, gonna not end up being really good and you end up overpaying.

Kinda like the Mozeliak and his paying 3 different guys who are cheaper, the same amount they could have just paid the elite guy.

If Evans actually hits FA then yea you should take that swing, who knows if that actually happens though.

One of them being a 4th rounder. Those are....pretty lottery ticket ish.

The Chiefs took Hardman in the 2nd while they had Hill.

Now Hill is gone, so it's time to go a little heavier there, but the "they haven't invested" thing just doesn't make sense.

Evans is older, Veach doesn't do big deals for old players. So you'd probably look at a 2 ish year deal and for what he will want I doubt they'd pay that.

I don't think that has to be the case.

I love Brandon Aiyuk. Even if the 49ers trade him, I'm not sure he's SO much better than Evans or Ridley or Marquise Brown that it's worth it to pay him 30-40 percent more AND give up draft capital for that right.

And let's not act like he's a sure thing, either. He's about the 4th option in San Francisco. He's outstanding in that role, but there could be legit questions about how that translates when he is THE MAN rather than A man.

I could be talked into Mike+ Chark/Samuel. Mike himself doesnt do it unless we bring back MVS or Hardman and make Hardman our deep ball guy.

I wouldn't consider back-to-back 2nd rd picks and trading for a top 20 draft pick low investment. The problem is that these guys both flamed out shockingly bad. Skyy Moore and Kadarius Toney are both unplayable and there's not a single person on this board or at 1 Arrowhead Drive who thought that would happen, especially Toney. The worry with Toney was never talent, it was always injury.

The Ravens were in our same situation last year when they had Demarcus Robinson, the corpse of Sammy Watkins, James Proche, Rashod Bateman and Devin Duvernay. They didn't do enough either.

Veach is gonna attack WR hard this off-season. We can all agree about that.

Toney was pretty blatantly overdrafted, lets be honest he got drafted by Dave Gettleman.

Thinking that Skyy Moore was an asset because he was a 2nd round pick the year before was stupid.

Same thing with Tony who was always injured or when he wasn't didn't get many snaps.

Everyone keeps blowing the Ravens in this thread and not realizing that they didn't go nuts fixing their WR room last Spring.

They have 3 competent WR's on their team and didn't spend much money at all to do it, so no you don't need to trade and pay.

The Ravens WR room looks like the Chiefs 2022 WR room with Rice added.

I just don’t think teams like Tampa Bay and Cincinnati are going to tag a WR and tie up 19m for a player they don’t really need or want to keep. Cincinnati is about to pay Chase. Keeping Higgins is a luxury. Same goes for Tampa Bay who is already paying Godwin. You really think they are going to pay 50m a year for WRs for Baker Mayfield?

I don’t.

Ah, aiyuk has the most catches, targets and yards for SF.

Right. And who attracts the most attention there?

McCaffery/run game. Then Samuel. Then Aiyuk or Kittle. Maybe you can argue he's priority #3 for teams, but considering the way they run their offense, I'm not sure of that.

I love him and don't think it's an issue, just saying that if we're going to nitpick guys available in FA and raise questions about them, it's not like the Aiyuk alternative is without risk.

They spent a 1st round pick and paid a WR 15 million a year.

So sign me up for that.

Also add a Agholor or a Duvernay type.

It's not even a question. When Aiyuk was asked to do more while Samuel was injured that offense more or less cratered in on itself. 17 PPG and 3 straight losses.

I agree that CMC is the most dangerous SF player. I think it might be a toss up between Aiyuk/Deebo after that.


But yeah, there’s no guarantee that Aiyuk would be as good in KC. But he’d walk in as the best WR in the building from Day 1, imo.

There's some major revisionism in the Veach criticism.

If I would have told you before the year that Rice would have a 1000ish yard season and a bunch of TDs, the tackles would both be top 15ish in PBWR, and the defense would be a legit top 5 unit, you'd have all been making SB plans. Which most were anyway.

I would think Kittle is more important for their offense than Aiyuk.

yes - the whole "he's old" thing is nonsense.

His stats at this age are very similar to Moss at the same age.

The guy is a target beast, runs any route asked, and most importantly, rarely drops and is a red zone beast.

Aiyuk leads the team in targets, yards receiving and receiving TD's.

It's definitely a run first type offense, but Aiyuk has put up basically 3 1k yard seasons.

He's really good, gets separation and would be a monster here.

And while he isn’t a speed merchant, he IS a dangerous downfield threat against single coverage because of his size and ability to high-point the ball.

He would still be a downfield passing attack boon who keeps teams out of single high or cover zero.

I expected a 2 loss season with how easy our schedule looked. That said I didn't legit think we'd end up with a top 2 Defense. It's the best secondary we've had since the prime Carter/Hasty days. Sneed is in Hasty's territory of making dudes disappear from stat sheets.

OUr pass rush isn't like the 90's or teens but it's a top 10 unit as well.

I might be in the minority but I'm not worried about this year's playoff run. We've got a top 2 Defense, the best HC in the playoffs, A HOF QB and TE, and a big play running game. The only area of our team that sucks is WR but all we actually need them to do is catch the ****ing football.

There's only one legit QB in the AFC playoff picture and we've got the QB that every team fears playing. We're the experienced team lead by a HOF QB for once.

Worried? **** no. I remember how every playoff game in the 90's ended when we weren't the team with the HOF QB...

Nope. The WR's were blinking red and those of us who mentioned that we needed a vet WR or two who could run the routes, get open, and catch the football were told we were dumb or not good fans by the CP Cheer monitors.

I did think the roster other than WR was going to be very good, that's why I was adamant we needed to fix it.

If our entire roster was shit then who cares?!

Yes but you also didn't tell us that Kelce would have an injury riddled down year, Pat would have the worst year of his career and the receiver room outside of Rice would collectively shit it's pants.

Thing is, if Pat has a year like this, it was just probably gonna be a "down" year.

I just don't care anymore about the whole "fill the WR room with talent" stuff. You've got Rice, get another legit dude and then the room is fine.

The absolute worst year Pat has ever had was a loss, in overtime, in the AFCC Game...

Kelce's ypg is just a little lower than his career average, and his catch rate is higher than his career average. That narrative is overblown.

I don’t think Veach would want to compromise his draft resources and any cap flexibility to trade for a WR that if we’re being honest is BERY similar to the one they just drafted and is a big hit.

They will be looking for what they hoped they were getting when they drafted Skyy…a guy that can get open immediately and work off the attention Kelce gets in the middle of the field. An Edelman/Welker type. They will also be looking for another deep threat because it’s obvious MVS isn’t returning.

If Veach is open to the option of using what would likely be a 1 AND 2 (or a 1+3+) and paying a big contract for a guy like Aiyuk (who I’m a big fan of)…then I think a more reasonable option would be to use those resources to move up in the draft to take a guy they love in the late teens, early 20s and using the cap space to retain a combination of guys like Sneed and Danna. Or Sneed and Tranquill.

A lot of the "year like this" is based on the WR's that can't lineup, can't catch the football, can't stop fumbling on special teams and at WR, can't run the routes or make adjustments, and don't belong on an NFL field as starters.

Switching Bienemy for Nagy also didn't do anything positive.

And finally Travis Kelce looks like he got 5 years older.


There is a reason why coaches at all levels say success breeds success.

The people around Mahomes this year at all levels other than the defense were obstacles, not supporting pieces.

I really hope that is not the goal.

Skyy Moore's upside was always limited to a decent slot WR, those guys can be signed in any NFL FA.

This is another reason I think Veach tries to solve the WR issue in FA. He tried to trade up last year and no team wanted to trade with us. There was nothing he could do.

Fortunately he got a home run with Rice in rd 2.

I doubt Veach wants us to be in that situation again.

Based on Andy and Naggy's comments from this year they'd prefer to keep Rice as a power slot because that's where he's been most productive. If that's the case we're back to needing outside WR's as Sky would be relegated to being a b/u. I'd have no problem with signing Aiyuk, DHop, Evans, Ridley, or Higgins.

The only thing I want to make sure of is being able to retain Tranquil and either Sneed or Jones. Preferably Jones but that doesn't seem likely.

Great POINT.

A.J. Brown took #18 and 101, which is 321 points on the Hill chart. Assume the price tag for Aiyuk is similar. That equates to the Chiefs' current #25 and 57.

For that same price tag, you can get to #15 in the current draft. Which might be enough to get you to Rome Odunze.

Same draft assets, $20+M/year more of cap space.

He was also drafted at the end of the first round. We seem to have one of those picks and could probably get our own Aiyuk if we don't trade that pick away. Emeka Egbuka brings alot of Aiyuk's traits, if not more, and might be available, or within a short trade up.

Do you like DeVonta Smith? Because Troy Franklin looks just like him.

My preference would be to sign one low end 1/high end 2 WR in FA, one more value vet and then use the 1st round pick on WR.

Hollywood Brown and Demarcus Robinson..

I wouldn’t be surprised. :thumb:

Works for me.

Would love DRob back if he is taking Skyy or Watson snaps.

I feel like Egbuka gives them a great shot at developing their own Jeremy Maclin/Terry McLaurin type WR.

Not a true burner, but plenty of deep speed, great separator, precise route runner.

After the year we just went thru, you guys think they're gonna just draft a WR early and roll him out?

Nah.

None of the guys that are free agents outside of Sneed and Gay, maybe Tranquill are gonna be guys you sign for much.

There's some good players there for sure, but they aren't ones you don't just replace and move forward.

And I'm just not a "build the room" at WR guy anymore. Give me a super high end guy and fill around him with whatever. Whatever is found in the mid rounds of the draft.

Dallas wants our first and 2nd next year for Ceedee? Sure I'm good with it.

Because you need depth, and unless the other guy you get is a guaranteed slam dunk like Higgins/Pittman (which ain’t happening) you need multiple shots at getting it right. A single injury to Ricebor the new “legit dude” and they’re back to 2023 ineptitude.

Get depth in the mid rounds. You don't need a room full of high draft picks. Hell, if Toney is your 4th wr, that's a talented group.

Everyone wants our 5th and 6th wr to be Justin Jefferson in waiting.

Nah.

News flash:

You can do this with every single team.

Sure, you try to add depth, but you don't overdo it, because you're only sacrificing a starting position somewhere else if you're investing THAT much into depth for another position.

Exactly. You add depth with guys like Richie James in FA and draft picks like Demarcus Robinson. Sometimes you get a Pringle in UDFA too.

Right.

"If this team loses their top 2 WR's or their top 2 CB"s..."

Yeah, you're ****ed then.

And there are Richie James every year.

I kinda feel the same about Tranquill but that's a different subject all together.

You can get depth WR's every year. Now whether our QB will trust them is a different thing I guess.

This is how people like OKchiefs think.

They have no clue when it comes to the process, hence why their expectations are absolutely insane.

"Just get 53 starting caliber to HOF players!"

No. I think they're going to add the best (best fit + best player) WR they can afford to add in free agency, and then draft a WR early. And go into the 2024 season with:

Vet + Rice + Rookie + another vet + Toney + a Richie James-type vet.

Hollywood Brown, Rice, and Emeka Egbuka would be the same type of major upgrade the Ravens made this season (Brown for Beckham, Egbuka for Zay Flowers), and look how much that has helped Jackson. And I'd argue that Rice + Kelce is > than Batemen + Andrews by a decent margin.

*Chiefs spend a 1st on a WR, 2nd on a TE, and use the majority of their FA spending money on a WR too*

2024 season:

"Wanya Morris ****ing sucks and Veach did NOTHING to address LT"

This.. No clue how to balance an NFL team..

Why would Dallas do that? They're going to give CeeDee whatever he wants and build around him.

Terry McLaurin is the best bet for a quality WR trade, IMO, and that would require him using his opt out after 24 as leverage to force a trade, and then KC backing up the truck for him once they get him and he demands a new deal or he still opts out (at which point you're better off trying to sign Mike Evans or Calvin Ridley, since they're all around the same age and would have the same yearly price tag).

Let's run through WRs who could be considered better or on par with the tier available in FA (Mike Evans, Calvin Ridley, Marquise Brown, Odell Beckham).

MIN - Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison. Addison is on a rookie deal and won't be traded. Jefferson COULD be, if they were blowing it up and starting over, but they seem a lot more likely to just try to reload and commit to him.

CIN - Jamar Chase, Tee Higgins. They're not going to trade Chase and I don't think they trade Higgins, either. They'll tag him and keep him, or trade him to the NFC. They certainly won't trade him to a team they're chasing in the AFC.

BUF - Diggs. Again, unlikely AF. They have no replacement for him, and wouldn't move him to KC.

NYJ - Garrett Wilson. Yeah, no. Not happening.

MIA - Hill, Waddle. THeir whole offense is built around these 2. More likely to trade Tua than either of them.

BAL - they won't move Zay Flowers on a rookie deal, obviously.

CLE - Cooper is their one good receiving weapon. I guess they could move him, but why?

PIT - Maybe they'd move Diontae Johnson, who has a year left on his deal.

TEN - Hopkins would be reasonable to add, but why would the Titans unload the one weapon they have for their young QB?

AFC West - let's not get silly The Raiders aren't going to trade Adams to KC< the LAC wouldn't trade one of their guys, and the Broncos wouldn't either.

SEA - They're competing and probably walking on Tyler Lockett. They won't move DK.

LAR - Kupp is getting up their in age, but their window is now. Unlikely.

ARZ - nothing to trade unless they tag Brown.

49ers - we've talked about Aiyuk a lot. They're going to want a ton for him if available, likely the type of price AJ Brown took.

TB - Godwin? But why.

NO - Olave? Yeah, no.

CAR - nothing to move.

WAS - Could move McLaurin, there are issues with it, he's going to want a new deal if it happens.

NYG - Nothing to move.

PHI - what, they're going to move Brown or Smith? Can't see it.

There just aren't a lot of trade fits. You don't have many guys holding their team hostage for a contract yet, you don't have teams entering a clear rebuild where they can move that WR.

But is he in the mold of an Antonio Brown (sans the attitude)? Or JJSS? Brown would be elite anywhere he went, but JuJu struggled when expected to be the #1. As a #2 he was very good. Aiyuk is not currently expected to be the #1 option which allows for him to get lesser CBs on him and end up with good numbers.

If trading him you would need to be 100% sure he can be that guy as he will be expensive in draft capital and he will hold all the cards in a new contract negotiation.

If shit goes bad in the playoffs for Buff I can see Diggs forcing his way out.. But we would likely have to fight the Cowboys for him..

I don't think the Chiefs would fight for him, given his age, and I don't think BUF would be willing to work with KC.

Talked to Duncan about Isaiah Simmons in the draft forum. 25 years old, former 1st rd pick, as athletic as any LB in the league. I think he should be cheap since he failed in Arizona and hasn't done a ton in NY.

5 INT's
19 PD's
8.5 sacks
8 FF's
15 TFL's

Impressive for first 4 years of work. I really want Spags to get this kid to replace Gay. I think he'd be awesome. He went to high school in Olathe.

Come on home big guy

Yeah Simmons would be a nice pickup

Chargers are in cap hell, right?

Isn't there a good possibility they outright cut Keenan Allen?

Would anybody want that bitch on our team?

I don’t really think I’m advocating for anything that would be considered overdoing it. Brown/Mooney/Ridley in FA and a 1st rd pick (2nd rd at the latest). Seems like a fairly reasonable investment at the position without going overboard.

Various reasons as someone else summarized. If Xavier Legette runs under 4.4 like many suspect he will at the combine I think its a no brainer. Dont fricken over think it like ppl did with DK Metcalf and Riq Woolen. The guy is a physical freak. Rashee Rice paired with Xavier Legette and Andy Reids run and catch pass game would beat the crap out of opposing defensive backfields. Go get Hollywood Brown in free agency as your homerun hitter to take the top off and your receiving core is fixed.

He's still got chops. I'd take him. Not sure he fixes the way teams have been defending KC, but he's a good player, still.

I think it's going to be Mooney and a 1st rounder, I really do. Possibly add a cheap older cat that wants to try for a ring.

and you guys are going to flip your shit all spring and summer.

But I think it'll work out.

I could live with, say, Mooeny + Keenan Allen after he's cut and a WR in the 1st. I think they may try to do a bit more than that, though.

Fair enough.