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NJChiefsFan 03-17-2013 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peyton's Princess (Post 9508325)
I don't really use that term in the NFL.

Eli Manning is clutch because Wes Welker dropped a ball, Mario Manningham made a great catch (on a great throw), and a helmet catch on a play the officials often whistle dead because the QB was in a grasp of a defender...

seriously

Tyree could have dropped that ball, or Samuel could have picked the ball a play earlier and Eli would have been a nothing.

Manningham could have not kept his feet in bounds.

Because of 3-4 fluky plays we think of Eli Manning is the ultimate playoff QB.

Tom Brady should be 5-5 in Super Bowls and without his kicker he may very well have been 1-5 instead of 3-5.

It's a ****ing team sport. The fact this board narrows it down to the QB every time a team loses is ****ing ridiculous.

I don't consider Peyton Manning any more of a choker than Tom Brady. I don't consider Tom Brady to be any more clutch than Matt Ryan.

I will say this was the first year where I doubted Peyton Manning when it got to OT after that Moore debacle. He just didn't have it...his arm was dead. I knew the game was over after Moore made that play. Or didn't make that play.

EITHER WAY...the NFL isn't like the NBA. One player can't win you a game. Aaron Rodgers lost in the playoffs.

Any team that wins a Super Bowl now needs luck. The Giants needed a Welker drop. The Ravens needed Rahim Moore and then the worst playcalling ever on the last drive in the Super Bowl by the 49ers.

there is no such thing as a Michael Jordan in the NFL...it's too much of a team sport
I would agree for the most part, especially on the Welker play. I do however think that while you can't win with just your QB, its pretty damn hard to win without your QB stepping up and making plays when it matters. I have always liked Manning as well, but he has gotten tight in some of his big games while Brady has had ones when he hasn't, which has helped his team win those big games.

It's a situation where you need a lot to happen, but a QB making big plays in the final 5 minutes seems to be on the top of that list now. But as you said, in the NFL and NHL, as well as the MLB, you need things to go your way along with making plays at the right time to take advantage of it. The QB also has a bigger chance to help lose the game based on the decisions being in their hands late in the game.

Hootie 03-17-2013 11:03 AM
ok I 100% know you need an elite QB to be a consistent winner in the NFL

and QB play wins big games

but Tom Brady has never had clutch moments in NFL games...nothing more than Peyton Manning

getting his team into field goal range on dump off passes so Vinatieri can make pressure kicks didn't impress me then, and doesn't impress me now

and since spygate Peyton Manning has WAY MORE "clutch" playoff games than Tom Brady

but no one can see that because 10 years ago Tom Brady teams won 3 super bowls

it infuriates me

Hootie 03-17-2013 11:06 AM
Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick had postseason games this year that are better than anything Manning or Brady have done in years...if not ever

Russell Wilson against the Falcons was one of the most amazing clutch performances I have ever seen...

when they got the ball back down 6 I had no doubt in my mind he'd drive them down and take the lead. None.

That dude is going to be the best NFL QB for the next decade.

I just answered your question by the way.

My definition of clutch NFL QB is Russell Wilson.

milkman 03-17-2013 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go to Hell (Post 9508337)
So the clips of him getting beat constantly mean nothing?

The opinions of dozens of Dolphins fans mean nothing?

I choose not to ignore these relevant findings.
First, SR asked if I had weighed in with "my" opinion.

I am not going to sell PFF or fans (who may or may not be dumbasses) as my opionion.

Second, while I think PFF is a good resourse, I don't treat them as gospel.

For instance, I have no clue how they rated Jovan Belcher, while he was a liability in pass coverge, I know from watching that his contributions were a factor in DJ becoming the player he has become.

I'd bet he had a pretty low PFF score anyway.

Hammock Parties 03-17-2013 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peyton's Princess (Post 9508343)
no you posted his 2011 PFF ranking to condemn him and then said Alex Smith's 2011 PFF ranking meant nothing

you're a genious
It didn't mean "nothing." He played well.

Doesn't mean he's a QB anyone should trade for.

NJChiefsFan 03-17-2013 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peyton's Princess (Post 9508353)
ok I 100% know you need an elite QB to be a consistent winner in the NFL

and QB play wins big games

but Tom Brady has never had clutch moments in NFL games...nothing more than Peyton Manning

getting his team into field goal range on dump off passes so Vinatieri can make pressure kicks didn't impress me then, and doesn't impress me now

and since spygate Peyton Manning has WAY MORE "clutch" playoff games than Tom Brady

but no one can see that because 10 years ago Tom Brady teams won 3 super bowls

it infuriates me
I agree with your point about Brady getting a pass by the media on his recent play in big games, but I think you are exaggerating a little when you talk about Brady's big plays during the Patriots SB years. There have been times when Brady has gotten the ball back and you knew the Patriots were going to win.

Hootie 03-17-2013 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan (Post 9508557)
There have been times when Brady has gotten the ball back and you knew the Patriots were going to win.
when has this EVER happened in a big game?

I remember him dinking and dunking his way down the field to set up a 45 yard Vinatieri field goal to beat the Rams.

in fact, the only time I've been inspired by Tom Brady and his postseason play was the game against the Raiders...I thought he played like a true badass that game and they should have lost if not for the tuck rule (and lets not forget how AMAZING Adam Vinatieri was)...

Tom Brady is a fantastic QB. Great.

But this whole idea people have had over the years that he is a better postseason QB than Peyton Manning is a pure myth and totally untrue. And it has ALWAYS been untrue.

Both of them are about the same when it comes to the playoffs...just because Manning's teams haven't won as much as Tom's doesn't mean anything other than Tom has had better teams.

NJChiefsFan 03-17-2013 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peyton's Princess (Post 9508648)
when has this EVER happened in a big game?

I remember him dinking and dunking his way down the field to set up a 45 yard Vinatieri field goal to beat the Rams.

in fact, the only time I've been inspired by Tom Brady and his postseason play was the game against the Raiders...I thought he played like a true badass that game and they should have lost if not for the tuck rule (and lets not forget how AMAZING Adam Vinatieri was)...

Tom Brady is a fantastic QB. Great.

But this whole idea people have had over the years that he is a better postseason QB than Peyton Manning is a pure myth and totally untrue. And it has ALWAYS been untrue.

Both of them are about the same when it comes to the playoffs...just because Manning's teams haven't won as much as Tom's doesn't mean anything other than Tom has had better teams.
One of Manning's issues perception-wise is that he has made some negative plays in big games, even if you want to say that Brady has dinked and dunked his way to big moments. I agree that some of that has to do with the team around him, but while I agree that Tom has not done much since his great teams have left him, I think Manning has done things to hurt himself with the playoff perception.

spades 03-17-2013 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan (Post 9508662)
One of Manning's issues perception-wise is that he has made some negative plays in big games, even if you want to say that Brady has dinked and dunked his way to big moments. I agree that some of that has to do with the team around him, but while I agree that Tom has not done much since his great teams have left him, I think Manning has done things to hurt himself with the playoff perception.
People expect Manning to be all world. Brady is allowed to be pedestrian and is considered all world.


I hate the whole "clutch" argument. It makes no sense to me

NJChiefsFan 03-17-2013 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spades (Post 9508680)
People expect Manning to be all world. Brady is allowed to be pedestrian and is considered all world.


I hate the whole "clutch" argument. It makes no sense to me
See I just think pedestrian is a bit of an exaggeration. Don't get me wrong, I really like Peyton Manning. May be my favorite non-Chief player to watch. On top of that Brady has always annoyed me. So I agree that Manning is expected to be all-world or he gets blame, but I also have seen him do things in the playoffs he deserves blame for. Like I said, some of that comes from having to force things since his roster was never really built to win big games without him being perfect. That goes double for the early days when he faced the Pats, prior to the rule changes where Ty Law could hold WR's at will.

ShowtimeSBMVP 03-17-2013 02:13 PM
1. Kansas City -- The Chiefs traded for a legitimate starting quarterback in deposed 49er Alex Smith and that move alone could make it a successful offseason in K.C. Nothing much else matters if you don't get the QB question answered, as teams like the Chiefs, Bills and Cardinals have proven so vividly in recent years.

But it's not just the Smith acquisition that we like. Kansas City re-signed No. 1 receiver Dwayne Bowe, franchised offensive tackle Branden Albert, secured the services of one of the best cornerbacks available in free agency in Sean Smith for a reasonable price, added a second cornerback who at least has had past success in the AFC in Dunta Robinson, and picked up solid, dependable components like receiver Donnie Avery, defensive lineman Mike DeVito, tight end Anthony Fasano and offensive lineman Geoff Schwartz.

Topping it off, the Chiefs wisely gave themselves another intriguing option at quarterback, handing former Saints backup Chase Daniel a three-year deal worth $10 million to be their fallback plan behind Smith. If you're keeping score, Kansas City upgraded at multiple positions on offense and added significantly to the secondary on a defense that has several Pro Bowl talents in Tamba Hali, Eric Berry and Justin Houston. With the No. 1 pick in the draft still to come, and offensive tackles Luke Joeckel and Eric Fisher both on the radar screen, Andy Reid's opening statement in Kansas City should encompass considerably more than 2-14 in 2013.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl...#ixzz2NpWFWr34

Ceej 03-17-2013 02:15 PM
I really don't find anything intriguing about Chase at all.

Hammock Parties 03-17-2013 02:18 PM
oh man sports illustrated said it, it must be true

ShowtimeSBMVP 03-17-2013 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go to Hell (Post 9508892)
oh man sports illustrated said it, it must be true
Oh PFF said it must be true.

Hootie 03-17-2013 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsandO'sfan (Post 9508930)
Oh PFF said it must be true.
Unless it's about Alex Smith


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