There's no manipulation here.

Take Russell Wilson's first three years.

Compare them against Alex's three best seasons.

I'll wait, and laugh, but I know Wilson has been superior in every way. Yards, TDs, TD%, rushing TDs, rushing yards, WINS....

And he's only going to get better. It's like clubbing a baby seal.

You said they had a good team with a defense and running game in place. I'll concede that they had a defense, but they certainly didn't have a good running game before Wilson.

They had a good defense and an utterly ineffective offense prior to Wilson's arrival. They went from a team that was consistently in the lower third of the league in scoring offense (even with Marshawn Lynch) to a top 10 scoring offense with Wilson at the helm.

And I'm supposed to believe that Marshawn is the key ingredient to that team's offensive success?

****, that's a lot of work. How far do you want me to go back?

Just since Alex smith got here. I don't want my eyes to completely bleed before that

You're disputing Russell Wilson's overall contribution to his team. You've completely marginalized his impact, citing a strong defense and a strong running game (which was not a factual statement). I've attempted to show his impact to the team independent of those two factors to highlight the true asset he's been to that franchise.

If Russel Wilson is just a placeholder, a medicocre game manager, then a scrub QB should be able to place hold them to 9 wins.

His contract or lack there of has been huge to that team as well.

Same as tom terrific

How many of those QBs led their teams back to the SB the following season.

Lynch's performance in 2011 was nearly identical to his performance in 2013, even with 1 fewer game. So it's not like he couldn't run without tripping over himself before Wilson arrived. Now if you want to talk about how much of an improvement Wilson was over Tavaris Jackson or Matt Hasselbeck, that's one thing. But I wouldn't sell Lynch's contribution to that offense short.

Probably also shouldn't just limit the discussion to those two specific players. That roster changed in a lot of other ways on both sides of the ball after 2010.

They won a division with the worst record ever for a division winner, a sub .500 record.

There are so many factors to take into account yet all I'm hearing is "rabble rabble defense Marshawn Lynch!". It's hard enough as is to get these guys to accept a few variables. The last thing I'm going to do is introduce more.

On a stacked SF team (aside from WR) Alex had 32 TD's in his 24 games in 2011 and 2012.

In the second half of 2013 when the OL played average football, Alex had 18 TD's in his last 7 games.

Which is why Alex should put up those types of numbers this year with a good offensive roster (on paper).

Many of those QB's didn't have a chance to. I believe Dilfer's last year was that season, Alex didn't play, though that team took Alex to an inch of the SB and a first year starting QB to the SB.

Brady and Big Ben obviously won multiple SB's.

I forgot Brad Johnson, who I believe was let go as well.

OK. This is for 0.city. I just went back to the year 2010 since I did that with the Hawks. Sorry for the shit formatting but whatever..

Offensive production:

2010: 12th, 22.9 PPG, 349 YPG, 5.3 yards per play.

2011: 27th, 13.2 PPG, 310 YPG, 4.9 yards per play.

2012: 24th, 13.2 PPG, 318 YPG, 5.0 yards per play.

2013: 21st, 26.9 PPG, 337 YPG, 5.2 yards per play.

2014: 25th, 22.1 PPG, 318 YPG, 5.3 yards per play.

Who has said that?