If you compare Poe's rookie numbers to Casey Hampton's, they are damn near identical.

So are those of Joe Montana and Pat Barnes...

Numbers? For a nose tackle?

Fair enough.

Here is the Cliff Notes version: Most people-Alex Smith may not be too bad after all when you consider the scheme. Wendler and Sweet Daddy Hate/'Lil Chiefy- Alex Smith sucks more than Cassel, Quinn and Croyle combined.

Then you will be pleased. You can hate all you want but Smith has significantly more talent than castle. You set the bar at castle's best I think it should be higher because he has more talent. Remains to be seen if we get that production but the talent is there to expect more without being delusional.

I have us winning 6 or 7 games.

That's "doomed to fail" to you?

The facts are the facts. Tyson Jackson sucks, Dontari Poe was a big bag of nothing last year, and Mike DeVito is an average player. 0 depth. And this was the #25/#20 defense last year.

Top 10 isn't happening.

The defense was ranked #25/20 because they were lazy and uninspired. DJ, Berry, Flowers and Hali played incredibly flat and unenergetic last year. Apart from Carr, this is essentially the same defense that ranked #12 just 2 years ago, and that's with Houston only playing a half season. And Poe wasn't a big bag of nothing -- he was excellent for a rookie Nose Tackle and should get better this year.

And you still haven't addressed the point about our OLB combo, and why that seems to matter less to you than our DE combo. Like I said, our DE/OLB combo is much better than New York's in 2009.

If Sutton picked up a lot of good things from Ryan, and we stay mostly healthy, this defense can absolutely match up with. They certainly have more talent than the Jets, who ranked 8th in points defense.

-24 in turnover differential probably had more to do with the defensive rankings than anything else.

The only reason anyone ever thought that defense was any good because the level of competition we faced was pathetic. Offenses led by QBs who had no business starting a game in the NFL. Tebow, Hanie, Painter, Boller, etc.

This defense has never had the potential talent to be top 10 at any point since 2008, and that's why I say middle of the pack is best case scenario for this group.

It'd be different if Carr was here and we had a game changer on the DL. We don't.

Doesn't account for yards allowed. Defense was just as bad as the offense last year. The truest defensive ranking is yards per play and the Chiefs were 27th.

It's silly to think that you view Carr as a difference maker, but ignore the fact that Poe and full-season Houston are enormous upgrades over what we had in 2011. Again, we have one of the best pass rushing tandems of OLBs of 3-4 defenses in the NFL. I still don't know why that matters a lot less to you than the D-line which, in Ryan's 3-4, is a lot more about versatility and holding your position (which our linemen can do) than about being some terror in the backfield.

You're not fielding a top 10 defense with that group up front.

Combined DL pressures for the 2009 Jets: 42

Combined DL pressures for the 2012 Chiefs: 14
Combined DL pressures for the 2011 Chiefs 25 (10 of which came from Wallace Gilberry)

Starting to get the picture?

That Jets defense was #4 in the NFL in YPC allowed. Last year we were 25th.

You're asking for a quantum leap which just isn't happening.

So scheme has nothing to do with those numbers?

Homers always think scheme is going to fix a defense that has shitty players.

I'm not saying this defense is going to suck. But if you think those players are part of a top 10 unit, and are trying to make comparisons to the 2009 Jets (who also had vastly superior safety play with Leonhard and Rhodes), you're off the reservation.