So the alternative to Hern, is, I assume, not a retread coach, you wouldn't want that, right? I guess we could call Dennis Green. Or a college coach, we're seeing how that doesn't work. Cower said he isn't coming back. So, a really good can't miss coordinator. Be sure to allow a good two more years of 5 wins while he gets his "guys" on the team. Come on. We're on a freight train that left the station. Herm's plan will either work or it won't, but he'll be given the chance, as he should.

Oh really?

How about the fact that the Chiefs moved Svitek to the right side of the line but more importantly, they CUT Chris Terry. They were playing for their JOBS.

Additionally, they didn't face the best defensive tackle in football, Albert Haynesworth. That would have made all the difference in the world.

These guys are OLD. OLD. OLD. There's no amount of coaching that will make them play at a higher level.

They'e DONE.

Ed, you may be a nice guy but week after week, all you bring is hate.

And no insight or knowledge.

LOL.....well when you are breaking in a young QB, you aren't gonna be a top 5 offense, that's all that needs to be said for the Skins. You can have all the skill position players in the world Jason Campbell is/was a first year starter.

Also Chris Cooley ain't no elite TE, there are at least 5 better ones, if not more.

This Herm drafting shit is funny, he's decent at it. That doesn't make the drafts great because they are better than the awful shit they were before..."hey we got a starter in the first round in both Herms drafts" guess what.....you're suppose to you dumb ****.

Top 5 is one thing. If Saunders was so great you'd think the Skins could be, oh, maybe top 15? They don't even approach it. And they haven't improved over last season, either.

You REALLY don't know what you're talking about, do you?

Last year, the Redskins started Mark Brunell. Why weren't they an elite offense then?

Name the 5 TE's that are better than Cooley, then tell me he's not elite.

Gates
Witten
Gonzalez
Cooley
Winslow

These guys have the most catches in the NFL as tight ends. Cooley's got 7 TD's, 2 more than Gonzalez and Winslow and two less than Gates.

If he's not elite, I guess either is anyone outside of Gates.

Gates
Gonzo
Heap
Witten
Clark
Winslow
Crumpler - although he has not had a QB this year

I would consider all of these TE's better

60 catches, 7 touchdowns. $30 million dollar contract.

He is an elite TE.

Yes because you know it's 100% stats......I'm not saying Chris Cooley sucks but he isn't Winslow out there or anything like that.

Just because he's not Winslow doesn't mean that he's not an elite tight end in the league.

There are more than 64 tight ends in the league and to say that Cooley isn't elite would be incorrect.

Ok elite is top 5 to me.......I'd immediately rate Gates, Winslow, Gonzalez and Witten ahead of him so that's 4..

Then after that it gets kind of muddled, Heap comes in, Cooley comes in, Dallas Clark comes in, Shockey comes in..

I think those top 4 separate themselves from the rest.

Cooley's got more touchdowns and more catches than Heap or Shockey and more catches than Clark.

That makes Cooley top 5 in 2007.

You validate what I'm trying to say, a great coach will have them playing for their jobs every week, playing with purpose. Marty did more in his first two years with less.

I'm sure that some of you have already read this in the Star today...but we're on pace for the fewest points in history with the exception of the the 1982 strike-shortened season. For the Herm apologists:

I know that we lost Roaf...then Shields and Green diminished, etc...but you can't seriously tell me that it's reasonable in anyway to see a powerhouse of an offense brought down to this level within two years? When has this ever happened in the NFL?

I'll agree with some of you that the offense had to get younger and was bound to change in the post-Vermeil period...and that there are forces from without that you have no control over (age, retirement, etc.). But dear God...HOW in the world do you stoop to this level from where we were this quickly? Is there another NFL example of a team so decimated so quickly?

It just seems that Herm was bound and determined to hurry the process along for the irrational reason that it wasn't his style of football. I think Roaf, Green, et-al understood this. We can play the "what if" game all day...but I can't help but believe that things could have been much different had Saunders chosen (w/ Herm's request) to stay on as the OC and been left alone to run the offense.

So much of what's happened to this team just seems unnecessary and sad. It just seems that Herm has been so stubborn and prideful about doing "his thing" that whatever was left of Vermeil's team be damned.

I have seen average coaches look great with great players and I have seen average players look great with a great coach, but I've never seen an average coach look great with average players. Something will have to give for the Chiefs to suceed anytime soon. I have not been a Herm basher but I have to admit that I have never seen a coach deflect blame to the players so easily.

Yep, have you watched the Redskins offense the last two weeks? Collins has played both of the last two games. Very solid, made me long for days gone by. :drool: