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-   -   Chiefs Thigpen on 810 (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=201861)

chiefzilla1501 02-06-2009 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 5465323)
The problem is Zach that he can't play under center. Do you remember the Raider game? The Atlanta game?

They put him in the spread so that he could better read the defenses. He did a pretty good job of reading the defense in the first half of most of his starts but after halftime, the defenses adjusted and shut him down. The Chiefs lost like 6 or 7 games when they were leading at halftime because of this.

They also had trouble scoring in goal line situations (again, with Thigpen behind center). Part of this was because the right side of the offensive line (the power side) was complete and utter trash but the other part of the equation is that the defenses knew what was coming because Thigpen couldn't read them well enough to throw the ball on the goal line (nor does he possess the accuracy).

I don't think the Chiefs should dump him but it's going to take him years of practice to learn how to read and react under center and quite frankly, it may never happen.

That's not a guy I want starting for my football team.
Yeah, but in his defense, how many QBs could play under center behind that offensive line? The offensive line got the two previous QBs killed. The spread offense was the only offensive set where any QB had any kind of a fighting chance.

Again, I don't know that he's the answer and you have to bring in a QB to compete. But I think he deserves at least a full offseason before we can start talking about his ceiling. If by the end of the offseason, he's still having problems under center and he's still having accuracy issues, than you quickly cut the cord on the experiment.

PastorMikH 02-06-2009 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 5465323)
The problem is Zach that he can't play under center. Do you remember the Raider game? The Atlanta game?

They put him in the spread so that he could better read the defenses. He did a pretty good job of reading the defense in the first half of most of his starts but after halftime, the defenses adjusted and shut him down. The Chiefs lost like 6 or 7 games when they were leading at halftime because of this.

They also had trouble scoring in goal line situations (again, with Thigpen behind center). Part of this was because the right side of the offensive line (the power side) was complete and utter trash but the other part of the equation is that the defenses knew what was coming because Thigpen couldn't read them well enough to throw the ball on the goal line (nor does he possess the accuracy).

I don't think the Chiefs should dump him but it's going to take him years of practice to learn how to read and react under center and quite frankly, it may never happen.

That's not a guy I want starting for my football team.


1) No QB has been able to play under center with success and without injury since Roaf quit - Thigpen has done the best of all - including Green.

2) Yes, Thigpen could be part of the problem with D's adjusting after halftime. Shouldn't the coaches make adjustments to compensate though? Also, Herm's "Let's run the clock" mentality coming out in the second half sure didn't help the second half.

3) Goal line, this whole team, not just Thigpen has struggled in goal line AND short yardage situations for the last 3 years. Our OL, RB, QB, yound and inexperienced recievers, as well as play-calling all have some impact on that. Truth be known, the Chiefs haven't been good at goal line and short yardage since DV/Saunders/Pre-neck-injury Priest left.


Thigpen is just one of a bunch of players I am wondering how they will perform with a new coaching staff.

Mecca 02-06-2009 07:04 PM
If you guys really think the reason they were doing spread shit was the line and not the QB, I'm going to question if you're thinking properly.

keg in kc 02-06-2009 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 5465588)
If you guys really think the reason they were doing spread shit was the line and not the QB, I'm going to question if you're thinking properly.
What, you mean going with multiple wide-outs instead of keeping extra blockers in doesn't help the offensive line?

(although in fairness, I'd say it was a combination of QB and o-line - rare instance in the last decade where we actually saw a chiefs coordinator trying to exploit strengths and mitigate weaknesses. but chicken shit never turns into chicken soup, no matter how much you stir, and limited QB + limited o-line = limited offense)

Reerun_KC 02-06-2009 07:10 PM
There isnt a QB on this roster than has earned or deserves to be on this team at the start of next season...

All of the trash needs taking out...

I would maybe keep Thigpen IF he could complete the most basic out pattern on a consistant basis, but the guy in row 5 has had enough of him knocking over his beer...

chiefzilla1501 02-06-2009 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 5465588)
If you guys really think the reason they were doing spread shit was the line and not the QB, I'm going to question if you're thinking properly.
The reason they ran the spread offense was because they saw that Thigpen was doing some good things in 2-minute offense drills in practice. So they incorporated it in. Would you deny that the pass protection was 100 times better than it was when any QB was lined up under center? When Thigpen lined up under center, he was running for his life on almost every single play. So regardless of the circumstances leading to it happening, it would be hard for anyone to argue taht any QB would have had much chance playing behind the kind of offensive line that we had. Given that we lost two QBs and were giving up the most sacks in the league before we implemented the spread, there's nothing unusual about this claim.

You know what offense the Steelers ran? It was largely a spread offense too, and for much of the same reasons. Big Ben was getting clobbered, so Arians implemented a lot more spread looks so that Ben wasn't getting killed the minute the ball was snapped.

PastorMikH 02-06-2009 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 5465588)
If you guys really think the reason they were doing spread was the line and not the QB, I'm going to question if you're thinking properly.


The other QBs on the team did fine behind this OL with the old offense didn't they.

Mecca 02-06-2009 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PastorMikH (Post 5465607)
The other QBs on the team did fine behind this OL with the old offense didn't they.
They won just as many games as Tyler Thigpen did.

doomy3 02-06-2009 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reerun_KC (Post 5465603)
There isnt a QB on this roster than has earned or deserves to be on this team at the start of next season...

All of the trash needs taking out...

I would maybe keep Thigpen IF he could complete the most basic out pattern on a consistant basis, but the guy in row 5 has had enough of him knocking over his beer...
so your opinion is that we should just cut Thigpen outright, huh? He wouldn't be on the market for more than 30 seconds if we did that.

Reerun_KC 02-06-2009 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomy3 (Post 5465619)
so your opinion is that we should just cut Thigpen outright, huh? He wouldn't be on the market for more than 30 seconds if we did that.
I dont give a crap what we do with him, aslong as he isnt under center when the season starts... Wait.... He cant play from under center.. Crap, that just screws up my rebuttle....


Nevermind, I need to work on a better rebuttle, brb, going to have to spread this out, cant work from behind keyboard that well...

Mecca 02-06-2009 07:17 PM
Look Thigpen from under center against the Raiders and Falcons was one of the biggest abominations ever witnessed, he was horrendous he would hit defenders with more balls than the receivers, lets not act like this is all about the line and has nothing to do with him.

I'm tired of this underdog fixation.

stevieray 02-06-2009 07:17 PM
how many yards and catches between Bowe and Tony?

DaneMcCloud 02-06-2009 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 5465630)
Look Thigpen from under center against the Raiders and Falcons was one of the biggest abominations ever witnessed, he was horrendous he would hit defenders with more balls than the receivers, lets not act like this is all about the line and has nothing to do with him.

I'm tired of this underdog fixation.
Why don't these Thigpen lovers SEE THIS???

JFC on a crotch-rocket.

Deberg_1990 02-06-2009 07:43 PM
Here is what i like about Thigpen:

1. Hes got decent legs and mobility. He knows how to escape.
2. Hes a decent passer in the spread on routes within the 5-10 yard range.

Thats about it. I dont see much to build on. He cant play under center. The only thing hes proven is that he can be an ok backup.

I dont see the improvement that some guys are talking about?? He was horrible in that Cinci game.

Mecca 02-06-2009 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 5465666)
Why don't these Thigpen lovers SEE THIS???

JFC on a crotch-rocket.
Because logic shits on the underdog fantasy, we're talking about a fanbase that wanted Marc Boerigter to be a superstar and that want turned him into something he wasn't.


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