Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 15988096)

This is 100% correct.

As I noted, you have to have played it to have any appreciation for it at all. And again, youth participation rates in soccer are at best stagnant over the last 15 years or so. It leveled out and is actually well down from the mid-90s boom that yielded...nothing.

I'm not saying it isn't incredibly difficult. I'm saying that it doesn't translate to the layperson and I don't see any spike in youth participation on the horizon or some massive wave of converts to the sport.

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 15988174)

Yea. Your probably right. Honestly very tough for soccer to grab a foothold in the US because we have such a wide variety of sports and extracurriculars.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 15988187)

Soccer has a basketball trap in it.

As I said previously - the higher the level, the less exciting it can get. Look at a soccer player just out and about with a ball. Look at the footwork they can display and the juggling, ball placement, etc...

NONE of that happens in high level matches because it just doesn't work. Kick, chase, pass, setup, defend. Oh sure, you'll see a few little step over moves here and there, but the level of play is so high that those 'tricks' that these guys are capable of just get destroyed.

NBA is the same way. These guys are unbelievable. All of them. Even a big dumb oaf like Dwight Howard can do shit with a basketball that's incredible. And he can sink open 12 footers in a practice gym all day. But in the game, these guys are all so big and so athletic that if you try any of that Jayson Williams white chocolate shit, you'll get picked clean and look like a moron. That's why a lot of people prefer college ball - it's full of far lesser players but the style is typically more enjoyable.

In many ways, the higher the level, the less exciting the play for both soccer and basketball.

That's why it can't catch hold here. If the caliber of player in the MLS improves, the entertainment value of the product will decline for all those that aren't hardcore fans. And unlike basketball with the small courts and constant action, a lot of soccer is played at midfield where you're just kinda waiting for an announcer to raise his voice to alert you to the fact that something might be going on.

Originally Posted by KC_Lee (Post 15986037)

Dear MLB & MLB Players Association,

From a someone that has not watched a second of baseball since 1994 with the exception of the Royals' runs in 2014 & 2015 I say **** YOU ALL!

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 15988193)

My wife played soccer her entire life. Played for one of the best public high schools in Kansas, and placed in state each year.

The issue for her (and her teammates) was that in order to compete at a high level and climb the ladder in the sport, you needed to commit to a traveling league and commit to playing year round - something her parents (and the parents at the public school) were unwilling/unable to do.

My wife, for fun, participated in an event in high school with other aspiring players who wanted to play in college. She said the gap between her and the students who played in year-long, traveling leagues, felt like the gap between her (a sophomore who played all her life) and a 5th grader. They were in an entire other stratosphere. This was a really alienating process for a lot of her teammates and a lot of her teammates actually lost interest in the game (when it was supposed to do the opposite). Universities really only had interest in the year-round players - and that barrier was obvious to anyone at that event.

My wife still played in club soccer all of college and her club team did well -- but the gap between club and the University Soccer Team was always that pronounced, and club, unlike the University teams (where students get scholarships), club teams typically get that support.

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 15988214)

My little cousin plays D1 soccer. She was on traveling club teams since she was an elementary. Thankfully our family could afford the travel and time. She played all over the US and even went overseas to play.

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 15988218)

It's amazing what a golden ticket opportunities like that can be. It's amazing to see their effect especially with the right coaches and team dynamic. I have a few students who do that for hockey and it's incredible watching their leaps in talent from 6th-8th grade.

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 15988242)

That's a good point, I guess I've seen enough students in the tiny town I teach in get football scholarships in local colleges (non-D1) that it seems a [i]bit[i/] more attainable than soccer and baseball -- but it's possible that's an anecdotal take on my end that isn't supported by data.

Originally Posted by Mama Hip Rockets (Post 15986596)

Tons of people on this board watch the Royals pretty much every day. I'd assume that's true of the Cardinals as well. WTF are you talking about?

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 15988250)

Well football scholarship is way more attainable because of the sheer roster sizes and physical bodies are of all sizes in football.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 15987911)

Evergreen response.

Soccer was going to be the next big thing in America as far back as 1988 when the '94 cup was awarded to the US.

A) The US is just too wealthy. The appeal of soccer in most other major nations is that it requires a ball and some grass to play. So in the 3rd world, everyone plays it.

B) If you don't play it, you don't get it. You don't appreciate the skill involved. You can have never played football or basketball or hockey or even baseball in your life and recognize how difficult it is. Soccer just looks like guys kicking and chasing a ball around and seemingly without a plan. Offsides doesn't make sense to you, the strategies involved aren't readily apparent, there's seemingly little action apart from repetitive back and forth. Hell, the sheer number of leagues/cups/divisions, etc... involved makes interest in the international game hard to build.

And as big a problem is that the higher the level of play, the less interesting the games become. As the MLS gets better, the scores are likely to actually go down and there's likely to be less action because teams will tighten up a bit.

Soccer's just unlikely to gain a foothold here because there are simply more entertaining things to play if you have the resources to do so. My kids all play soccer because they get to run and kick things but my oldest prefers basketball and gymnastics now. My youngest son wants to play baseball and football and my youngest daughter wants to do dance and gymnastics as well. Soccer is a placeholder for them while they don't have attention spans.

I'll take 'em out there for as long as they keep asking to play because it burns off energy and nobody asks me to coach it, but I don't expect it to be something they're interested in for too much longer.

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 15988063)

My son is 16 and plays soccer at the club/competitive level. He has made me truly come to appreciate it. It’s not easy at all. Sure, anyone can get out on a field and kick a ball. But the balls skills, body skills, strategy and conditioning to be able to be truly good is unreal. Most people don’t have a true appreciation for what it takes to play soccer at a high level. They just see guys/girls kicking a ball around.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 15988096)

This is 100% correct.

As I noted, you have to have played it to have any appreciation for it at all. And again, youth participation rates in soccer are at best stagnant over the last 15 years or so. It leveled out and is actually well down from the mid-90s boom that yielded...nothing.

I'm not saying it isn't incredibly difficult. I'm saying that it doesn't translate to the layperson and I don't see any spike in youth participation on the horizon or some massive wave of converts to the sport.