Draft pick value has sky-rocketed since then....probably thanks to JJ. not gonna get close to that value

how are Sanchez/Stafford gonna look PB material while riding the bench? How is Cassel gonna get 1st and 3rd value for playing OK to good?

Dallas got roasted on that deal even then. Adding a year to a draft pick basically lowers its value by one round. The Cowboys gave up a 1990 1st Rounder for the equivalent of a 1990 2nd Rounder and two 4ths.

Add to that the fact that the 1st Rounder they gave up was #1 overall and the point loss was absurd.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There's no way the Chiefs would draft Stafford/Sanchez at #3 with the intention of trading him down the line. They would take a beating no matter what.

They only draft one of those QBs with the intent that he will replace Cassel in the near future. Trading Cassel will involve much less of a hit.

1st and 3rd is a lot, not that I'm condoning the pick but I guess you hope it works out kinda like Brees/Rivers. The starter plays well enough to warrant interest, and you see enough from practice that you believe Sanchez is the guy.

Cassel will also be pushing 30 in a couple of years. Just because Hamas doesn't like Cassel and does like Stafford/Sanchez, he pulls this scenario out of his ass. The chiefs do believe in Cassel and that's why they traded for him...makes about as much of sense as Atlanta or Baltimore picking Sanchez if he slips

If you don't know how NFL personnel moves work, don't post in this thread.

Cassel will be a RFA after next year. Since we own his rights, if we tender him to an offer sheet of 2.65 mil, if another team wants him, they sign him for dirt cheap (2.65), and have to pay a compensation of a 1st and 3rd round pick.

He qualified as a UFA this year because of the CBA, but with its expiration next year, it will revert to a player needing 6 years of experience. He'll have five. Thus, we own his rights, even if he's not signed to a contract.

We won't be desperate to unload him like NE, so we can hold onto him until a team in desperate need of a QB is willing to pay that price (say Minnesota). We get a late first and a late third for Matt Cassel when we paid a second for him, and we have a quarterback with elite upside to replace him who we didn't have to throw to the wolves.

I've said this from day one. I'm sorry if I actually know how personnel moves and FA work in the NFL, I know it must be terribly offensive to run into someone who knows WTF he's talking about.

In 2007, a second-round tender offer was added. The four tender amounts for 2008 are as follows:<sup id="cite_ref-0" class="reference">[1]</sup>
<table class="wikitable"> <tbody><tr> <th>Tender amount</th> <th>Compensation required</th> </tr> <tr> <td>$2.562 million</td> <td>First- and third-round</td> </tr> <tr> <td>$2.017 million</td> <td>First-round</td> </tr> <tr> <td>$1.417 million</td> <td>Second-round</td> </tr> <tr> <td>$927,000</td> <td>Determined by RFA's original draft status (see below)</td> </tr> </tbody></table> Each player that signs a tender receives the one-year salary that corresponds to the tender level. Teams which choose not to match an offer on a player with a low tender receive a draft pick corresponding to the round in which the player was originally drafted (except that the highest pick that can be surrendered for such a tender is a second-round pick). For example, a player who was originally drafted in the sixth round of the NFL Draft would force the team signing him to give his former team a sixth-round pick in the upcoming draft as compensation for his service. No compensation is required for an undrafted player on the lowest tender amount, so teams with valued undrafted RFAs are taking a notable risk by offering such tenders.

I know how the tender works, but keep in mind that this year Cassell only brought a 2nd along with Vrabel. If his stock goes up that much in a year or two, which it definitely could, that would be great. I just wasn't making that assumption; say he does pretty good, we make the highest tender offer, and then trade him for a low first. Of course he would have to agree to negotiate a contract with the team making the trade, too.

You couldn't be MORE WRONG.

Cassel will be an UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT next year. Period.

"1. Unrestricted: In a capped year, a player with four or more accrued seasons has unrestricted free agency rights. Five or more accrued seasons are required for unrestricted free agency in an uncapped year (1993 or the last year of the CBA). An unrestricted free agent may sign with any team. If the unrestricted free agent is not signed by June 1, his old club may offer him a contract with a 10% raise over his prior year's salary, and thereby obtain the exclusive right to re-sign him after July 15 if he has not signed elsewhere by then."

Let me repeat that since you ignored it when I posted about this weeks ago:

Five or more accrued seasons are required for unrestricted free agency in an uncapped year (1993 or the last year of the CBA).

Who's my source? Only the NFLPA. Argue with them.

http://www.nflplayers.com/user/templ...d=0&type=l#a14 . That's the NFLPA Members FAQ.


... or maybe you're right. Your confusion is actually understandable. The NFLPA seems to argue with themselves on this:

“Players must earn a certain number of Accrued Seasons prior to becoming a UFA,” said NFLPA Director of Salary Cap & Agent Administration Mark Levin.

A player whose contract expires at the beginning of a capped year (2008 and 2009), for instance, needs to have four Accrued Seasons to be a UFA, while a player whose contract expires at the beginning of the uncapped year (2010) must have six accrued seasons to gain free agency. Players earn an Accrued Season for any season in which they are on full pay status for at least six regular season games.

A player who has earned three Accrued Seasons and whose contract expires in a capped year is a Restricted Free Agent (RFA) provided that his club has given him a proper RFA tender. “In 2010, a player will be a RFA if he has earned three, four or five Accrued Seasons,” Levin explained.

http://www.nflplayers.com/user/conte...d=443&pid=1340

This Levin was wrong, though. He's spread misinformation that's probably been repeated by reporters et al. See my post below for a link to the actual CBA if you want to see for yourself.

If the Chiefs want to keep Cassel next year, they either resign him now, or they Franchise Tag him again at a minimum of $17 million (guaranteed) next year.

So if it comes down to it, tag and trade just like we did with Jared.

Wow, 17 mil is a lot. They'll probably have a deal in place before the season though.

Note my edit above. The NFLPA seems a little confused. I'm downloading a pdf of the CBA right now to check it out.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Got it. Mark Levin was talking out of his ass mistaken. It's five accrued seasons for UFA in an uncapped year like the Player's FAQ says.

You can download it here: http://www.nflplayers.com/user/templ...2&pid=0&type=l

It's an old-fashioned pdf (i.e. photographs) so it's unsearchable, but the relevant sections are on pages 56-58, and 237.

Bills select Andy Levitre, OG, Oregon State

Pretty easy pick honestly.

And Cassel will have five years after 2009, and according to Mike Lombardi, former General Manger, here, and here, you're completely incorrect.

Another source, proving that you are overdosing on fail:

hat determines an unrestricted free agent in the Final League Year (2010)? In capped seasons, a player whose contract has expired becomes an unrestricted free agent if he has four or more accrued seasons. In the Final League Year (2010), a player whose contract has expired becomes an unrestricted free agent only if he has six or more accrued seasons. An unrestricted free agent is free to sign with any club with no compensation owed to his old club.



http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/ne...882000BB6A4D15


What determines whether a player is a restricted free agent in the "Final League Year?"
In capped seasons, a player whose contract expires becomes a restricted free agent if he has three accrued seasons. In the Final League Year (2010), a player whose contract expires becomes a restricted free agent if he has three, four or five accrued seasons. The rights of restricted free agents remain unchanged in the Final League Year.

Read the ****ing CBA.

I already posted a link for the pdf. And as I mentioned, that pdf consists of PHOTOGRAPHS of the actual paper document - no data entry errors!

You can also see it in html form here: http://www.nflplayers.com/user/templ...pid=539&type=c

Article XIX:
VETERAN FREE AGENCY

Section 1. Unrestricted Free Agents:
(a) Subject to the provisions of Article XX (Franchise and Transition Players), any player with five or more Accrued Seasons, or with four or more Accrued Seasons in any Capped Year, shall, at the expiration of his Player Contract, become an Unrestricted Free Agent. Such player shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player
Contract with such player, without penalty or restriction, including, but not limited to, Draft Choice Compensation between Clubs or First Refusal Rights of any kind, subject to the signing period set forth below.



p.s. That Cowboys link is the same FAQ that's been circulated by the league. I already read it on CBS: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/10847836 and I'm sure you can find it many other places if you want to. It's probably to blame for so many people talking about "six accrued years" for UFA - but it's wrong. THE ACTUAL CONTRACT SAYS FIVE YEARS.

A screenshot:

And speaking of confusion, here's Adam Schefter. He's conflating both the six year idea and the 10% raise idea.

With an uncapped year looming for 2010, everyone will be playing under an entirely different set of rules.

One rule creates a situation that makes it appear as if this year's franchised players have taken two steps forward and one back.

This offseason, franchise tags were handed out to unrestricted free agents Darren Sproles, Brandon Jacobs, Matt Cassel, Dunta Robinson, O.J. Atogwe, Leroy Hill, and Michael Koenen.

Each of these players completed their fourth year last season. But the collective bargaining agreement that eliminates the salary cap in 2010, also says that players do not get to become unrestricted free agents until their sixth season.

Thus, seven unrestricted free agents that were designated franchise players this offseason will revert back to be restricted free agents next offseason.

Now it's not entirely bad. The collective bargaining agreement says these franchised players will be entitled to a 10 percent raise in 2010. But they will not be allowed to become unrestricted free agents.

How odd, going from an unrestricted free agent to a restricted one. It is one of the many new rules to a different game the NFL will be playing.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=090...s&confirm=true

In ANY CAPPED YEAR. 2010 is not a capped year, genious.

And, as Shefter reports, I am correct, and full of win, as always.

Upon further review, Schefter probably has it right.

The operative provision is this one in the attached picture.

Since 2009 is a capped year and is the year before the "Final League Year," players with five accrued years will not be UFAs, but they will be treated as players with 4 accrued years under Article XIX, Sections 2-4.

The portion of Article XIX that applies to salaries states:

(ii) For Restricted Free Agents with four Accrued Seasons (in Uncapped Years):
(1) Right of First Refusal: one year Player Contract with Paragraph 5 Salary of at least $771,600 for the 2006 League Year, $925,000 for the 2007 League Year, $1,002,000 for the 2008 League Year, $1,085,000 for the 2009 League Year, $1,176,000 for the 2010 League Year, $1,275,000 for the 2011 League Year, or $1,383,000 for the 2012 League Year, as applicable; (but see F below)

(2) Right of First Refusal and Draft Selection at Player’s Original Draft Round: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) the amount set forth in Subsection (b)(ii)(1) above; or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged (this Subsection is subject to the rules of Subsection (c) below);

(3) Right of First Refusal and One Second Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $1,375,000 in the 2007 League Year, $1,492,000 in the 2008 League Year, $1,620,000 in the 2009 League Year, $1,759,000 in the 2010 League Year, $1,910,000 in the 2011 League Year, or $2,075,000 in the 2012 League Year, as applicable, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged

(4) Right of First Refusal and One First Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $1,673,000 for the 2006 League Year, $1,975,000 for the 2007 League Year, $2,142,000 for the 2008 League Year, $2,323,000 for the 2009 League Year, $2,521,000 for the 2010 League Year, $2,736,000 for the 2011 League Year, or $2,971,000 for the 2012 League Year, as applicable, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged; and

(5) Right of First Refusal, One First Round Draft Selection, and One Third Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $2,196,600 for the 2006 League Year, $2,475,000 for the 2007 League Year, $2,687,000 for the 2008 League Year, $2,917,000 for the 2009 League Year, $3,168,000 for the 2010 League Year, $3,442,000 for the 2011 League Year, or $3,741,000 for the 2012 League Year, as applicable, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged.

...

(f) A Restricted Free Agent shall have the option of accepting a one year NFL Player Contract for 110% of his Prior Year Paragraph 5 Salary (with all other terms of his prior year contract carried forward unchanged) in lieu of a Player Contract for the applicable alternative amount specified in this paragraph, if he so wishes, regardless of which Player Contract is for a greater amount.



As Schefter reports, it all comes back to $17 million (current salary times 110%) to keep Cassel.

any player with five or more Accrued Seasons, or with four or more Accrued Seasons in any Capped Year


You want to try reading that again, genius? "five" OR "four" "in any Capped Year." (Though that is supplanted by the special "Final League Year after a capped year rule" I posted above.)

And while you're at it, try reading Schefter again and see that Cassel will make $17 million (110% of his 2009 salary, whatever that is) and you are wrong as usual; you're definitely full of something, though.


So very, very irrelevant.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ah, here are the actual numbers. This was sitting in a tab I should have read an hour ago.

Now, an interesting item to follow is Cassel’s contract status. He can play out this year at $14.65M and either be a restricted free agent next year (if it is uncapped) with a tender number of $16.12M (110 percent of this year’s number) or, if 2010 does have a Cap, an unrestricted free agent or tagged again at a $17.58M number (120 percent of this year’s number). Or, of course, he can work out a deal. With $32.23M in likely guaranteed income without a new deal, Cassel is, shall we say, in a highly favorable economic position.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...ey-matters-26/

Dammit, Mecca.

So, in summation, I was right about owning his rights, and right about the fact that we can tender him for draft pick compensation, but was wrong about the amount that he'll be paid.

Awesome. And I'm full of something?

You justified your entire idiotic scheme on having Cassel for peanuts. Yes, you're full of something.

Maybe you should take your own advice:

We own his rights and can unload him at any time in the next two years without having to give him a long term extension and worry about him killing our cap with an accelerated bonus, so yeah.

Again, the most important thing is that we can offload him for draft pick compensation to a team desperate for a QB because we have an assload of cap room this year, and since 2010 won't be capped, a team that wants him can have him without cap implications.

The only thing that was wrong was his compensation. Everything else, trade compensation, the FA structure, RFA qualifications, was right.

I'm not the one who posted a bunch of wildly contradictory information from my sources that I disagreed with, then agreed with, then disagreed with.

The ONLY THING THAT MATTERS is the compensation. That's the same reason Cassel was so "cheap" to acquire this year. No one will trade much for him with that salary.

As for my posts of different information - I actually tried and found the truth.

You just kept clinging to your own half-baked nonsense as if it were meaningful - after you offered yourself as some kind of expert.

Cassel's money only means something in relation to the cap. If you think teams, that dole out 10's of millions of dollars in bonuses every year, are worried about paying a guy 17 million when it has no implication on the cap, you're insane.

If a team trades their first for Cassel next year, they aren't going to be spending any more money on him in that first year than they would the draft pick with a signing bonus if it was a top 20ish pick, so it's not going to be fiscally crushing either.

You're laughable - bouncing from one completely ridiculous claim to the next. The new contract - 2011 on - will certainly have a cap. And if the actual money is not an issue, why are the Chiefs not signing free agents?

Even disregarding cap concerns, teams won't pay Cassel BECAUSE HE'S NOT WORTH IT.

The New York Jets select Chase Coffman, TE, Missouri

The Chiefs aren't signing free agents because we're not taking a Bronco approach to team building that assumes that every swinging dick out there is some how an upgrade.

Guess what: If new team A signs Cassel to an extension after trading for him, they can accelerate all of his bonus money up to the 2010 uncapped year, b/c they pay it out then anyway, and thus his cap number for the successive years becomes far more manageable, because you aren't carrying 1/6 or 1/5 of the bonus money tacked onto his base + any incentives.

Is this next pick the one that the Pack received from the Jets for Favre, or are the Jets up?

I am not sure, because the team listed here is the Pack, but Archie Bunker is listed as the selector?

My mistake.

Pick #76 belongs to the Jets, via New Orleans.

The selection stands - sorry for the confusion. The Texans are on the clock.

A bone-crushing play-making strong safety is urgently needed for the Texans.

The Houston Texans select Nic Harris, SS, Oklahoma.

***In other news, time constraint can only allow me to manage the Texans. Anyone want to manage the Steelers from here on out?***

The Chargers are on the clock.

BigChiefFan had the fewest number of picks going in - the Steelers are his if he wants them.

Lemme know, BCF.

The Chargers select Dorell Scott, DT, Clemson.

Jamal Williams is going to be 33 this year and he's played a lot of snaps the last 5 years. With Cesaire and Bingham teaming up to take over the end spot vacated by Olshansky, Scott gives the team a 5th lineman and someone who can step in if Williams gets nicked.

This thread should have this as theme music...

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I should probably throw this in, Nic Harris is most likely a LB at the next level.

For most teams.

Some teams, like the Pats and perhaps the Chiefs soon, like a relatively huge safety/LB hybrid.

He's awfully slow to be in todays NFL secondaries...

He's definitely not a cover two guy. He's a run support guy who can play shallow centerfield and lay some hits.

He's basically Bernard Pollard.

Sorry about the wait. I moved into a house and we don't have the net hooked up just yet. Thank God for work. lol

The Broncos have needs on defense....especially getting younger in the secondary and grabbing another rush backer to help out the front seven. But there were some guys that got taken before this pick and the value right now really isn't that great. So looking on the offense....I see one kid that I think is a good value right here. Jay Cutler and the organization are not in a good situation right now and the depth of QB on the Bronco's roster doesn't look that great. Will Jay Cutler be the QBoTF for the Broncos or will he get traded during the draft? Who knows......but I'm looking at it right now that Cutler will be hard to resign when his contract is up. With the 79th pick the Denver Broncos select:

Nate Davis, QB, Ball State

Davis can sit for a year or two and allow the Cutler situation to work itself out. If somehow it does....then Davis will be a good insurance policy in case Cutler ever goes down. If Cutler doesn't resign with the Broncos....then they have Davis waiting in the wings.

Are you trying to get all of your draft picks from Oregon schools? :D

Keenan Lewis is still there.

Are you ****ing kidding me?

:cuss::cuss::cuss:

Hey....if you wanted him for the Chiefs....you should have said something. :D

:Bartee:

The Washington Redskins are thrilled that a potential blue-chip WR is still available to them on the 2nd day of the draft. The Redskins select Brandon Gibson, WR, Washington State University

I guess you didn't see my earlier post.

Do you want to take over the Steelers, since you're short on picks?

Chase Daniel is still out there.

For me, this is a pretty easy selection after Davis is gone.

The Bucs need bigtime upgrades all across their D, and with most of the league transitioning to a 3-4, there is a lot of good talent available for a Cover 2 scheme, and the value finally matches up. This guy is perfect for a zone scheme, IMO, and he can fill in as a kick returner for added value. I've been targeting him for TB here, but when I saw Davis slipping, I thought I might be able to augment the QB situation. Well, **** that.

With the 81st pick, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select Coye Francies, CB, San Jose State.

Yea, I'll take 'em. Thank you in advance.

Woot! Former Beaver and a really good player.

ROFL

Dude, he had like 9 picks total.

I think you have 14 or 15.

I know.

Andy Levitre was the target here, and while the Lions need OL help, (where DON'T they need help?) the value isn't there.

What they do need, is a playmaker opposite Calvin Johnson, and a solid kick returner, something McDonald and Furrey were not, in our humble opinion.

The Lions select:

Derrick Williams, WR, Penn State

I won't be on tonight....so I PM'd my pick to OTW58 in case he's on later.

Damnit. :cuss:

Derrick Williams has bust written all over him.

Calling it as I see it.

Where is your top 5?

Hold your thoughts, D. I don't need any of these guys picking in front of the Vikes getting any bright ideas. Especially if your top 5 and my top 5 have a few similarities.:)

Given some of the picks so far, Sfeihc, virtually nobody around here has the same big board as mine.

1. RB Rashad Jennings, Liberty
2. OLB Gerald McRath, Southern Miss
3. MLB Jason Phillips, TCU
4. TE Travis Beckam, Wisconsin
5. OLB Tyrone McKenzie, South Florida

Al Harris and Charles Woodson aren't getting any younger, and while the Pack have a couple of young CBs behind them, they aren't guys that are going to be setting the world on fire, though Will Blackmon is solid.

The Pack with the 83rd pick in the 2009 draft select Mike Mickens, CB, Cinncinnati.

Mickens has good height at just under 6', but could stand to gain about 10 lbs, bt he's not afraid to stick his nose into run defense.

He'll be able to contribute right away in nickel and dime packages.

Mickens is a great pick. He's a productive player with good measureables and a lot of experience.

Nice pick, milk. This was one guy in my top 5. D, you have listed a couple more.

This is a really easy pick. The Chicago Bears select Johnathan Luigs C Arkansas

I was hoping Luigs would fall to KC. Piss ****.

Never would've made it. Pats, Cards, Steelers and Titans all could have easily taken him. If this mock is any indication, looks like we'll have to take one with our third if we want one of the top centers.

I wasn't taking him for the Titans. I've got 3-5 different guys I was considering for the Titans in the 2nd round still on the board. I know I'll get someone I really want.

NFL GMs must have so much fun on draft day. This is great.

You know Mawae is probably retiring after next season? He's 38. Maybe you're just not a fan of Luigs, to tell you the truth I don't know much about him.

Leroy Harris (last year 4th rounder) and Fernando Velazco are ready to compete for that job when Mawae retires, and Amano can play center too. As a team that doesn't play much in free agency the Titans will be looking for a 3rd round pick that can get on the field, and they have multiple bigger needs.

whoops! should have checked the depth chart.

Via PM, the Eagles select:

Xavier Fulton, OT, Illinois

Goddammit. I didn't take him because I figured he would still be sitting there in the 4th. Oh well, no way Luigs was gonna last that long.

The Williams wrecking crew isn't getting any younger. The pick here for the Vikings is Alex Magee, DT, Purdue.

Dolphins pick, via PM:

By the start of the season Trevor Pryce will be 34 and Justin Bannan will be 30. Marquis Douglas, their backup at both end positions last year signed with the Jets. Suffice it to say the Ravens need depth at DE and someone to groom for the future. This guy should be able to come in and contribute in the rotation immediately and can potentially develop into a full-time starter. He's a little short but has enough size at 6-2, 280, along with excellent strength for his size, to play DE in a 3-4 scheme.

The Baltimore Ravens select DE Mitch King, Iowa.

As someone who knows him, I love that pick!

It's a shade early, (the value is at positions the Patriots have already drafted) but the Patriots believe there is quite a drop-off in talent on the OL after this pick.

Projects to be a guard, but is versatile enough to play RT, and could knock Nick Kaczur out of a starting role, or at worst-case scenario, be the starting RG in 2010 when 900 year old Stephen Neal is cut/retires/etc.

The Patriots select:

Kraig Urbik, OG, Wisconsin

****.