thats an article about lack of power hitters in the major leagues.

Home runs are down nearly 20 percent from their 2004 peak, and scouts have made it clear that based on what they are seeing in the minors, that downward trend is going to continue. With Washington Nationals outfielder Bryce Harper in the big leagues and Seattle's Jesus Montero beginning the year there, all of a sudden there are precious few power hitters in the minors, and while there are plenty of theories as to the cause, there's no obvious answer as to why.

The knee-jerk reaction is that this is a result of the end of the PED era, but that's a simplistic argument that ignores other trends we are currently seeing in the minor leagues.

"If it was PEDs, then explain to me why I can't turn my head without seeing some kid throwing 95 mph," quipped an American League assistant general manager.

An AL scouting official added, "Everyone is going to want to say we're coming out of the steroid era as it relates to power hitters, but arm strength isn't affected? I've never seen anything like the power that is coming out of pitchers in terms of velocity at every level."

Another team official believes that clubs have learned their lessons in some ways when it comes to finding hitters.

"There hasn't been a lot of power in the draft since 2008, but at the same time, we've gotten away from the 'gorilla ball' mentality," the official explained. "Those old college bats fooled us on a lot of players, so now there's an emphasis on premium positions. Our collective mindset has shifted more to developing all-around games and finding better defenders and guys who can run, and I think overall it's a good thing and leading to better decisions."

Yet in Latin America, there's been a reversal in those trends.

"All of a sudden, teams are seeing power in Venezuela and the Dominican Republic, and they're paying for it," said an international scouting official. "We used to only pay for athletes in Latin America, with the slugger-only types never getting big money."

Chances are we'll still get our sluggers, as an American League scout made a point about surprises. "David Ortiz, Robinson Cano, Curtis Granderson, Nelson Cruz, David Freese, Pablo Sandoval," he listed. "How many of those guys looked like they were going to be in the middle of a lineup when they were prospects?"

Surprises are hard to predict, and while there are few players who project as future sluggers, here are three prospects a poll of scouts determined as the most likely to become middle-of-the-order run-producers.

1. Miguel Sano, 3B, Minnesota Twins (Low Class A Beloit)

For one scout, "the list begins and ends with Sano." Signed out of the Dominican Republic for $3.15 million in 2009, Sano hit 20 home runs in 66 games in the rookie-level Appalachian League last year. As one of the youngest players in the Midwest League this year -- the toughest offensive circuit among full-season leagues -- expectations, at least statistically, were tempered.

Apparently nobody told Sano, though, as he leads the Midwest League in home runs (11) and total bases (85) while hitting .287/.406/.625 in 38 games. He just turned 19 last weekend, and for players this young, power is usually overwhelmingly on the projection side of the ledger. We haven't see this kind of in-game power from a player so young in low Class A since Giancarlo Stanton was known as Mike.

2. Oscar Taveras, OF, St. Louis Cardinals (Double-A Springfield)

Taveras was pushed to Double-A this year as a 19-year-old (he turns 20 in June) after flirting with .400 at low Class A Quad Cities in 2011 and holding his own in the Arizona Fall League. But like Sano, nobody was expecting a breakout. Despite a controlled yet extremely violent swing that has brought some very loose comparisons to the swing mechanics of Bryce Harper, Taveras hit just eight home runs in 308 at-bats in 2011, but he already has 10 homers in 143 at-bats this year for Springfield while batting .315/.364/.643 in 36 games.

Still, he's more of a hitter than a slugger, but one scout indicated that itself might be indicative of something. "Are we in an era where pure hitters develop more naturally into hitters with power?" he asked.

3. Wil Myers, OF/3B, Kansas City Royals (Triple-A Omaha)

Myers falls into the Taveras group, as he's a fantastic hitter who has somewhat suddenly added significant power to his game. After an injury-plagued 2011, Myers retained his status as the top hitter in the system with a monstrous showing in the Arizona Fall League, and he turned into the Texas League's version of Josh Hamilton by hitting seven home runs in his past 12 games to lift his season averages to .343/.414/.731 in 35 games. He was so dominant for Northwest Arkansas that the Royals promoted him to Triple-A on Wednesday.

While he's played all three outfield positions and a little bit of third base this year, he ultimately projects as a prototypical right fielder with All-Star potential.

Taveras at 19 is already the top prospect in the Cardinals farm system after Shelby Miller. He has jumped up everyones list in Baseball the last year. Most are projecting he makes the team in 2013 and starts 2014. Could be an all star basher.

Yeah, he's young, he mashes and hasn't really missed a beat going from low A to AA. Downside is he's still learning to play OF.

They just wrote about him and some other young prospects on rotoworld.
http://rotoworld.com/articles/mlb/40...ect-evaluation

those guys have him coming up this year. No way. He won't come up until after the all star game next year at the earliest no matter how well he mashes. The Cardinals are not going to let the MLB service time start ticking at 20 years old.

I don't think he does either but I think it has less to do with his age than the simple fact that he's still really rough defensively and needs the time to work on his defense.

Tavares already has 10 homers in 143 at-bats this year for Springfield while batting .315/.364/.643 in 36 games.

That's all you took from that article? That since you aren't the only person off base on this subject then it justifies your position, "facts be damned" as Bernie put it?

I mainly took it as more turd polishing, probably at the behest of the organization.

The Holliday supporters kind of remind me of the Gabbert supporters. Dudes piss down their legs in key situations over and over, yet I should love them based on statistics. At least I'm not stuck forever with one of them.

Holliday is a guy that is going to put up good numbers every year, and that is helpful. But he does have the tendency to not produce at all when it's really needed. Like you, I was at the games at Busch over the weekend, and there was no doubt in my mind that he would strike out when he pinch hit on Sunday. I would have liked to see Yadi pinch hit there, but you really can't burn your only other catcher in that situation.

I did convert the wife from a Cubs fan to a Cards fan over the weekend. I guess seeing a couple of games at Busch won her over. At Wrigley, you have a better chance of being puked on than actually having an intelligent baseball conversation so she appreciates fans that actually watch the game.

In summary you ignore what people who get paid to analyze performance vs value for a living think and go with what you believe in your mind only.

understood.

Yea he can be frustrating, I understand that but the simple fact is his numbers will be there at the end of the year.

How is this spin in any way shape or form?

Since signing the contract, this is where Holliday ranks among major-league left fielders: 2nd in homers, second in RBIs, 2nd in onbase percentage, 4th in slugging percentage, 2nd in extra-base hits, 4th in batting average, 2nd in runs created. Only one LF in the game has produced more than Holliday since the start of the 2010 season -- Milwaukee's Ryan Braun.

Is "frustrating" a word that should be associated with your No. 3 hitter? Your highest payed player? Really?

I'm not interested in his Bronco-air inflated career stats, nor do I care how many hits he gets when we're up 7-1 against the ****ing Pirates. All I know is that if the game is on the line, I'd rather see pretty much anybody in the lineup at the plate than Holliday (other than the pitcher and whoever our second baseman du jour is).

I've got 1/4 season tickets to the Springfield Cardinals (AA, as I'm sure you all know). This Sunday, I think it's the last game that they're giving out the replica WS rings. 2500. The place will be packed. I heard that people were at prior giveaway games offering upwards of $50-60 on the spot for a ring that didn't get one.

Hatred is clouding your ability to read, the stats I quoted are based off his time since joining the Cards not his time in Colorado.

The point you continually fail to realize regardless of how many times it is made, the reason Holliday is frustrating is simply the expectations are ridiculous. How you can't figure that out is beyond me. He is doing what he has done for most of his career, his numbers aren't down. If you look, his OPS is actually higher since coming to Stl than it was in Colorado, but just ignore the facts.

Do I get frustrated? Yea, why? Because I expect a hit every at bat with runners in scoring position, is that realistic? Ummm no.

In summary, he is what he is, and always has been. People who hate on him expect him to be something he has never been. He will never be AP, Musial etc...regardless of what you want and expect from $17MM a year.

And looking around at what players are making now he isn't even overpaid.

That's all lovely, really. I still think he sucks. Quick, roll out some more stats!

Bernie did hit on one thing I agree with - my contempt for this turd was cemented the day he dropped that routine fly ball in the Dodgers playoff game, and then stood there like a ****ing doofus afterward. And he's really not done much to change my opinion of him since. When the going gets tough, Holliday disappears.

I suspected that to be the case, I was pissed too.

Bullpen is absolutely horrible right now.
If they don't turn it around I'm afraid Craig might be traded for relief pitching.

No way Craig is traded.

Only a dumbass like frazhole would think that Holliday sucks.

Did you see that home run he hit tonight with a guy on to take the lead?

He probably didn't even know who Holliday was until he came to St. Louis.

Me three. Seeing him eating sunflower seeds out in the outfield after the error and then you see the contrast in the pain of Ryan in the dugout. :shake:

But despite that one moment................. he has performed as what we thought he would be when we signed him. Not many high priced FA contracts produce like they were paid to perform. We are getting what we paid for, and with the new cable contracts escalating the salaries, his contract may actually be looking like a good deal in a year.

We will see another trading deadline trade for bullpen pitching this year. But, I dont see Craig as the bait. He is entering Miller untouchable territory. Another team will offer a better deal than what we would ask for craig.

You have to pay a premium trading at this point in the year. Its a sellers market. Hard as hell to get a good deal. And most are rent a player free agents in a couple of months. Your only hope is that you have trade bait that everyone else values way above your evaluation of their value.

Mo has a fantastic track record of these trade deadline deals. Where is Wallace, Rasmus, Luddy? Whatever you think of Mo, he has earned the trust of Cardinal nation to make those trade dealine deals.

Tuned into the home MLB last night...didn't realize Scully was still calling games...he has always been a homer, but he is becoming Harry Carry senile as well.

:facepalm:

Yes, it would be so surprising that an 84 year old man might be losing it.

Too bad we can't trade him to the Dodgers. Choke artist + team that hasn't done shit in decades seems like a perfect combination to me.

He's definitely not on his best days anymore but the Worst Vinny is better than the Best of anybody else.

And to call him a homer is just laughable, I have the MLB package and the other home team announcers make Vin look like a Giants fan.

I'd take him in a heartbeat. An OF of Holliday, Kemp, and Either..... JIMP

I hadn't heard Scully since the 80's until I heard him go way over the top in the movie "For love of the game". He's not so bad.

No one expects the home teams announcers to be impartial. I like watching the STL game on the MLB package even its not in HD instead of watching say the Giants broadcast of the same game in HD. You just get more info on your team.

One of my favorite memories is game 6 of the NLCS in 85 right after Clark hit his bomb...Garagiola and Scully were calling the game...Scully started in on how the Dodgers really missed Steve Howe and Garagiola countered with something like "yeah the Cardinals had to wonder who would replace Bruce Sutter." Scully STFU after that.

Last night Scully was obsessed with Lynn's velocity. He acted like he was some newcomer called up that no one had heard of (despite his post season last year). He throws a fastball for 94 and he says 89 or 90 then says "Lynn is far from an overpowering guy, they say he has touched 98 at times, but we haven't seen anything close tonight." He's always been the master of the subtle dig, but now he is just ignorant. He had a great career and has a great radio voice, but he appeared to be a dithering old has been last night.

MLB.com: St. Louis to call up Matt Adams Posted on May 19, 2012 by Kary Booher

Matt Adams, the Texas League’s MVP last year when he hit 32 home runs and drove in 101 runs for Double-A Springfield, is joining the St. Louis Cardinals on Sunday in Los Angeles, according to MLB.com’s Jennifer Langosh, who covers St. Louis for the website.

First baseman Lance Berkman was removed from Saturday’s game against the Los Angeles Dodgers after apparently injuring a knee.

Adams, who bats left, was hitting .338 (47-for-139) with nine home runs, nine doubles and 27 RBIs. He has had far more success against right-handers, hitting .379, compared to .222 (8-for-36) against left-handers in the Triple-A Pacific Coast League. Adams hit two home runs and drove in five Friday night in Las Vegas.

I kind of chuckled when you all hired Matheny but as I've seen more games and heard him more I'm starting to belive he's going to be a good manager, if he isn't already. I knew he was a bright guy... didn't laugh because of that... just seemed like quite a leap going from TLR to a guy with no experience. Plus losing Pujols... just figured Matheny would be in over his head. He doesn't appear to be. I like his cool, collected style/personality.

He's defintely a smart baseball mind. The cameras caught him mouthing "he's swinging" on the 3-0 count tonight that won the game for the Dodgers. He does have the look of a winner. His first test as a leader is occuring now. Whether is works out in the long run or not, you can see why Mo picked a guy with no experience as a manager.

He may be a good manager, but good is the last word I'd use to describe our piece of shit bullpen right now. ****. :shake:

Just heard on the radio (no link) that Berkman tore an ACL over the weekend and is probably done forever. :banghead:

Guess that means we get to figure out whether Matt Adams and Allen Craig are for real this year.

Wow that sucks.

Yeah, but it was a crapshoot expecting somebody that old to be an every day player.

We had for not quite two seasons and he did a hell of a job for us. Going out on top, can move on to coaching or broadcasting. I can think of worse things.

Oh I agree. I didn't expect much from him when you guys signed him but he definately proved me and a lot of people wrong. Kind of the same now with Beltran... didn't expect him to play as well as he has. You guys can't miss luck and the Royals can't find some with both hands and a flashlight. Heh.

Severe meniscus tear for Berkman. Out 6-8 weeks, longer if more problems are found during surgery.

It could be worse we could have Ryan Franklin again, at least most of our shitty bullpen has some upside

Yeah, they are saying he'll have surgery sometime this week (Friday at the latest) and won't know for sure until then.

Sounds much better than what they were saying on the radio (Chicago radio always loves to report bad things about the Cardinals). At least there's a chance he'll be able to play again.

Suck it bitches, Padres are your kryptonite.

Every ****ing team is our Kryptonite the last two weeks. Besides this is the regular season we just own you in the playoffs. :p

That is why you don't walk the goddamn 8th place hitter to face the pitcher. It's stupid chickenshit baseball.

If you aren't confident enough to get the 8th place hitter out, just forfeit. Facing Denorfia to lead off the 8th instead of Richard or a cold pinch hitter is what screwed us.

I absolutely hate that decision.

Mutha ****ing Tyler Green!:clap:

He has a lot of Larussa in him, thats to be expected. But, he does do some things for the better.

i hate my team

No sympathy from us pal. Thats been us taking it on the chin for two weeks. Tonight was a welcome respite. :harumph:

Heard on Sportscenter or baseball tonight that homer was the fastest pitch in MLB since 2009 to be hit for a homer.

Old Wainwright may be back. Looks awesome tonight. Rolling scoreless through 8, working that nasty ass curveball. :thumb:

Four hit complete game shutout for Wainwright. :rockon:

The Madres - the cure for what ails you. :D

Those smiles after the game were excellent. I would have been pissed if he would have been pulled. There was more at work here than one ball game. You could just see the joy of his fellow players for waino. Having a fully recovered Waino and a recovering Carp will be a fantastic assesst in case Lynn hits the wall. Or Loshe/Westbrook fall off a cliff.

Still barely hitting 90; operating mostly at 89.

The Padres suck....badly. Like really really badly. Buck will try to suggest they don't, but they're unquestionably the 2nd worst team in MLB and the worst team in the NL. If they played the Twins, the game would be called after 20 innings at 0-0 because the crowd would have all killed themselves and the flies/smell would overcome the umpires.

Wait until Wainwright's able to go through a start against a major league team without hanging several dozen curveballs and/or getting a swing and a miss on a fastball before declaring him back. But it has to be a major league team - the Padres do not count.

He still looks like a slightly better version of Jeff Suppan circa 2004 to me right now.

Well, this is a bit more pessimistic than I'd like, but I agree, it will be nice to see this outing against a team that doesn't suck. Sure would have been nice to see it against Atlanta last weekend. :grr:

The velocity thing worries me a ton.

A pitchers velocity generally stabilizes around his 6th start. If it hasn't come back by that point in the season, it isn't going to. And frankly, you rarely ever see a pitcher just gain velocity a season later, even coming off TJ surgery (most of them will gain command and consistency, but not velocity).

If Waino's cap is 90 MPH, you have to lower his ceiling. He's no longer a legitimate CY contender at that point; he's just a very good #2 starter.

So yeah, it's a little pessimistic, but it worries the hell out of me.

Fangraphs is showing his average fastball velocity as down a bit but nothing dramatic. 89.7 this year vs. 91.1 in 2010, 90.9 in 2009 and 90.1 in 2008.

1.5 mph is pretty drastic.

Understand - Waino is my favorite Cardinal. He's the nicest guy on the team and we could never ask for anything more from a player than we get from that guy. If he's throwing 85, I'd still want him extended.

I want nothing more than to see him back out there owning that mound like he did in 2010.

But I'm also not going to pass off a 1.5 mph loss in velocity as immaterial, especially when he appears to be overthrowing on occasion to even get to that 89 and thus straightening out and/or rolling a curveball (hence his slightly increased changeup velocity).

Tangent here but what do you think about Lincecum's loss of velocity?

Lincecum was a physical freak of nature that was able to overcome shockingly inefficient mechanics for 5+ seasons. When you're blessed with a thunderbolt of a right arm, you can get away with it.

But as he's thrown more innings, his arm strength just isn't what it once was. And frankly, those mechanics are still inefficient as hell. He holds his arm too low as he begins his acceleration (so he fights uphill with his arm), he turns his shoulders too much to get a full drive forward and creates a ton of drag.

For all the talk about how his dad created his 'injury free' mechanics - they're horrid for the purpose of maximizing the energy he can create with his legs and transfer to his arm. And now that his arm isn't good enough to make up for the fact that he's a pure arm thrower, he's throwing slop.

I think Lincecum is done as an elite pitcher. If he eventually decides "to hell with it, I'll throw it out for as long as I can", he may be able to get another good season or two before coming undone. It will require that he alters his mechanics to increase his efficiency (and undo some of his deception) and it will require that he just pitch through pain, but it could happen.

It's either that or he just has to become a much much smarter pitcher. Felix Hernandez has lost just as much velocity as Lincecum but he's learned to set up hitters and rely on location/movement to generate outs. Lincecum's still trying to pitch like he can throw 97 and frankly that's just not going to work for him anymore. He needs to figure out how to generate more movement on his heat, get on top of it and start getting outs like the #3 starter that his stuff suggests he may be these days.

I didn't get to watch much of the game, but in the couple of middle innings I did see, I thought his fastball looked better...touching 92 more regularly and his curveball and the more familiar bite and tilt. Granted it is the Padres, but I thought overall it was a more optimistic view of a true return to his previous self. Time will tell, I think he will adapt no matter what because he has always been a pitcher who could deal with not having his good fastball to be effective.

Greg Maddox is scoffing at your assumption.

Yrs, I think the velocity issue is dependent on what type of pitcher you are in the first place.

If you never were a power pitcher then losing 1.5mph isn't huge. Not saying it isn't anything to be concerned about but guys that don't throw that hard and use location and movement won't be bothered near as much.

Waino while not being a finesse guy wasn't and isn't a power pitcher by any means.

If he was throwing 86 like Pedo was at the end then that's a whole different story.

Adams looks like the real deal.

Nice to see Freese look like he's on the other side of that slump tonight, and Skip made a nice play to take the bloop away with the diving catch.

6-0 after 2 innings. 70 pitches after 3 innings. Westbrook is returning to his mean.

And Atlanta is absolutely laying down for the Reds, too - they're about to get dealt a 4-game sweep. Looks like we can kiss first place goodbye. :banghead:

Not so fast - looks like they put up a four spot in the bottom of the 3rd. Now down 6-4 in the 4th, but the Phillies are threatening again. Mercifully, Westsuck gets the hook.

Molina ties the game with a 2-run blast!

He keeps hitting .280 or better for the next 3-4 years he will have a better chance at the hall of fame. Do "defensive" catchers make it into the Hall?

It is inevitable anyway. We lose Larussa, Duncan, Pujols, Carpenter, Craig, Berkman, Jay its just too tough to stay in first place.

Sadly, our pitchers are still throwing batting practice pitches. 4321

We will make a trade and firm up the bullpen and make up the ground we have lost. The Reds dont scare me.

Any word on Carpenter? We need to get him back and excise Westbrook from the rotation.

They said on a recent broadcast that he would start throwing after the All star break. Work down in the minors for about 3-4 weeks to build up his strength. Late August early september.

****.

Two on with Beltran up.

:cuss:

I just dropped Westbrook from my fantasy team.