Then don't read it.

I would have thought you better than trying to squash other people's opinions.

So is accepting reality.

Hell, I didn't know that constantly stating you have no faith whatsoever that anyone in the Chiefs organization has the skill or desire to ever win a Super Bowl was classified as discussion.

Months? ??? Try years

I mostly just skim for for a good rant or funny quips.

I'm not trying to squash anything but I find it comical how someone can post non stop on a Chiefs forum about the short comings of the franchise and then pretend like they're not butt hurt and they don't care. We've all got reason but at least admit to yourself that it does matter to you. :shrug: Being a Chiefs fans sucks! I've always enjoyed rooting for the underdog so there is that.

Before free agency, Vegas had our win total at 8 over, -125. After free agency, Vegas had our win total at 8 over, -125.

Oddsmakers don't seem to think we lost much.

ROFL

So many weak minds.

I love how you guys never bother to mention the DOZENS of positive posts I've made over the past few weeks.

Or how you conveniently forget that at one time, I was continuously derided for "being on Carl's payroll".

You know what matters to me? Chiefsplanet. The Chiefs happen to be one of the hundreds of things that get discussed here from day to day, week to week.

As always, Chiefsplanet gravitates towards extremes while the truth continues to exist somewhere in the middle.

Dozens buried by hundreds. Whatever it takes to get yourself through the day:thumb:

Absolutely untrue.

The window for starting QBs winning championships is 31. Alex is 30.

KC lacks a competent free safety, and absolutely no depth on the defensive or offensive lines.

They need at least one game changing player on offense aside from Jamaal, and probably need two. Jamaal isn't getting any younger at a position that gets most of its production from guys in their first three years in the league. Sure, Knile looked good at times but there's no guarantee he'll be able to add 1800+ yards of total offense like Jamaal does.

Cooper is unproven at CB. Flowers and Smith are somewhere above JAG level and KC has four games against great offenses in San Diego and Denver. KC needs one more legitimate pass rusher that can at least approach the effect Houston has on defense to get pressure.

Kansas City is just not a good team, and there isn't a lot that can be done this year to fix that considering their draft position.

So you look to next year... Alex will be 31, Jamaal will be one year older and the Chiefs could take Xavier Su'Fila-whatever just as easily as they could take Beckham, Cooks or Lee and there would still be a lack of depth either in offensive weaponry or on the offensive line. Hali and Flowers are probably gone or will have played poor enough that replacing them is a necessity.

Chances are the Chiefs won't be able to compete in 2015 either. If you're in such a position that you're not good enough to compete for playoff success for two years in a row, then some big chances are needed in the roster.

If every draft pick from 2013-2015 pan out, then the Chiefs might be good enough to win a playoff game in 2016 and be in a good position to get to the conference final in 2017. That's an optimistic guess based on

But most draft picks in general don't pan out, and KC's drafting history writ large is pretty poor... So it'd be safe to say it'd take an extra year of drafting and player development to get in a position to be a legitimate team.

2018.

So what's the better option: try and eke out wild cards every other year with the aging roster the Chiefs have now or rebuild the team to be a consistent post season threat?

You can use them as a basis for your argument if you want. Now, what did they have us at last year? :hmmm:

I trust my own eyes and what I know about the Chiefs. They are worse now than they were when the season ended. It's very easy to see that there's been more lost than gained. The thing that makes it hard is when folks don't want to accept it and start looking for ways to dispute it.

It's debatable. Letting Lewis and Robinson go removed a lot of suck.

So, you are what your record is when you're 2-14, but not when you're 11-5?

Someone should tell Denver, NO, and NE that they're not SB contenders.

Hall of Famers. Every QB that's won a SB since free agency over the age of 31 are Hall of Fame caliber guys besides Brad Johnson.

Unless you're saying Alex Smith is a Hall of Fame quarterback.

the big name high price free agents almost never are the difference makers that anyone thinks. I have no problem with waiting and bargain shopping. It is a reality that the teams that are in the hunt year in and year out don't panic, draft well, and let most of the FA's that want the big dollars walk. If you trust your talent evaluators, and you trust your coaching staff, then this is the right path.

Yes we have holes. I've got news for you-every team in the league has holes. I think Dorsey will find players to fill most if not all of them before August.

I'm okay with most of the guys we let walk. Albert is now an injury problem, Asamoah never became what he was supposed to, and Schwartz was a good but not exceptional player. McCluster has been called the worst player in the league on this board-now he's a major loss? Come on. We need a Guard, a Safety, and a Wide Receiver. And depth. Then we need the young players to progress. It's April. Wait and see before we panic.

Commings will cure all of our ills.

The current regime brought in Robinson.

Just playing Devil's Advocate here but we're being asked to trust these guys implicitly when one of the biggest "suck" players lost was a guy they brought in?

No not at all. Your opinion like mine doesn't mean anything to those people. There is no trust necessary there.

You might be one of the few that couches the argument this way. Just saying.

:thumb:

EDIT: And to be clear, I wasn't suggesting that Reid and Dorsey are asking us to trust them. That's a given when they ask you to buy season tickets. My statement was directed at the people here who continuously shoot down any criticism of the regime. They keep saying "you have to trust what these guys are doing".

But they recognized it was a mistake.

Unlike previous regimes.

True. Admitting a mistake is a good first step. A good second step is to not make those kinds of mistakes in the first place.

I just look at that differently. To me it just isn't trust. It is belief. Yeah those words go together in some ways and can be built off of one another in some settings. But not in a situation of franchise to a fan IMO.
I believe they will play games on Sunday. I believe they will lose some they shouldn't and win some they shouldn't. I believe I will be happy and pissy about "Chiefs football". I believe that we will draft a 1st Rd stud QB someday. I believe we will another Super Bowl some day.
Most of all I believe I can actually enjoy my Chiefs football if I am not trying to trust someone or something that I have absolutely no control or input over and into. Purchasing a ticket or a seasons worth of tickets is merely the price to be entertained, nothing more nothing less.
But I can't trust someone or something that I do not know and have a repore with.

That was refreshing after Pioli. Yeah don't do that again.

Wow. You and I have an almost identical view on the big picture. And yet, somehow our perspectives are completely different when it comes to the Chiefs.

Interesting.

You said Chiefs, Draft a 1st rd QB, and win superbowl in the same post. LMAO

Quality minds often have debates and differences.

OMG I am a homer. Damnit... :bolt:

I think this thread might well be the home of the biggest circle jerk argument ever.

It's weird, huh?

Usually there is a "line drawn in the sand" over issues like this...strange for a thread to last this long without there being much heated debate.

Oh it happened. Cooler heads have just prevailed.

As long as I don't have to watch our players tell us to #getcovered with commercials during the games this can continue. I think pimping that shit during a football game would unite us all.

IMO it's because this place doesn't have a large portion of its core group of A list debaters anymore.

OTWP
Mecca
Dane
Hamas (even though he does post, just not as much)
FAX
Gaz

Just to name a few...

The debates don't get taken up a few notches like they used to.

IMO at least.

Gaz has been gone so long, I don't even remember his style. Other than his font.

Also, Mecca doesn't debate. He condescends.

I just don't have enough energy to really care all that much about the Chiefs anymore. Someone posted about this last week in a thread (I think it was 'maqe): I care more about ChiefsPlanet and the posters than I do the Chiefs at this point. If it wasn't for this website, I'm not sure if I talk about the Chiefs to anyone or even really think about them that much.

Can't blame ya bud. I feel as if I've devoted a big part of my life to a team that will never love me back. Just once, I'd like to see them draft their starting quarterback and make a real run at things.

Even I've lost the passion I used to have for this team because they always repeat the same failed plan/results.

That reminds me, got a call from Bill Gates the other day. Said he wanted to do something good for a stranger, so he dialed a random number, got me, and asked if he could wire $50 million to my bank account.

I mean the money would be nice, but I'm no charity case. Would feel so guilty if I took he because he worked so hard for it and should keep it himself. Plus the thought of not ever having to work ever again is a little scary. I'm afraid I'd be bored, and would be jealous of those who have a very fulfilling job that they get to spend 50-60 hours doing every week until they're old.

Told him I'd have to think about it, but he got all butthurt and threatened to call someone else. He did give me his # though and told me to call him to arrange the transfer. I know this is every person's dream and all but I'm really conflicted and confused about what to do.

ROFL

Yeah, it was me.

I have WAY more invested in Chiefsplanet than I ever did in the actual Chiefs.

Someday our prince will come.

I think many of us are getting to this point. In Missouri, for the most part, you just have to settle for having somebody play that sport at that level. We seem to be a state that's the subject of a cruel experiment that's testing how far "sports franchises/team/groups/organizations" can ride the "you're lucky to have a team" concept. If it weren't for the assholes in St. Louis and their stupid baseball team, we'd be left with two Missouri-based contenders in all of sports, and THAT'S in minor league hockey and D2 college basketball. And who even knew they existed as a powerhouse before we heard they were in the championship.

Anyway, we have little reason to get excited about the Chiefs anymore. I'm still holding-out hope for th Royals (again this year).

Was this doode a prince or king?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...rdfarquaad.jpg

Welp, with way we're the cookie!

That's kind of sad

It'd be harder if the Chiefs didn't treat their fans with such open contempt.

Exactly how I feel. I haven't been posting here long, but I really like this board. I've said it already in another thread, but I'm just numb to the chiefs at this point. They're losing me(and others I know) as a fan. I decided, after going to watch that debacle in Indy, that this team is not getting another penny from me until they show me they wanna win and win at least a playoff game. No more merchandise, no more games at Arrowhead. Yes, I've made friends in the Arrowhead parking lot and loved the tailgating and the friendships made. But, I just can't justify spending money on a franchise anymore that just doesn't seem to give a shit. Like I said though, I do like this board and most of the posters here, so I won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

Chiefsplanet has been something for me that has given back one hundred fold. From advice, to prayer requests, tech help, being a mod, meeting people for tailgates, etc.

The Chiefs haven't given me anything other than a lot of heartbreak.

That's the way it is when you root for one of the bottom 5 franchises in the NFL.

If you root for a competent organization and the Chiefs, it becomes a lot easier to distance yourself from the Chiefs, not because they lose, but because of the incompetence with which they do so and their thinly veiled contempt for their customers.

I used to put so much more time and energy into the Chiefs than I do now. 15 years ago I used to live and breathe every move, would know and have an opinion on everything going on. Now there's probably guys on the roster whose names I wouldn't even recognize and I don't think I've ever cared less about a draft. This a year after having absolutely no excitement or enthusiasm about either a) a new front office and coaching staff or b) a #1 pick.

I spend (much) more time in the Media Center discussing movies and tv than I do talking about the Chiefs. Which is really sad. But ultimately a lot more satisfying. Part of that is that I realized hyper-analyzing the team is really pointless, because it has absolutely no impact on the outcome of games. Sports radio is pointless, internet discussion is pointless, the only thing that actually matters (usually) happens on Sunday afternoons in the fall. But another part of that, and a not insignificant one, is that the treadmill of losing that this poorly-run organization has established has simply worn me down to the point that I just can't maintain that once insanely high level of interest. The degree of consistent failure that the Chiefs have demonstrated since I moved here in '99 is almost staggering.

It's really hard to be a fan.

At least you've got ONE...

Did OTWP leave for good? Damn, I missed that.

Nothing more frustrating than having shitty owners.

Everyone knocked Mark Cuban, but he was right. People here think they've distanced themselves from the Chiefs, but I'd be willing to bet it's the NFL as a whole.

They're everywhere, on all the time, clearly ruining the game, and people are stepping away.

It's a subtle shift, but a lot of people are doing it...

The idea is you get those guys now in free agnecy, and that lets you draft purely for BPA. It goes hand in hand with your draft strategy to stock up on as much talent as possible. And in doing so, you cut dead weight every year and replace it with those draft picks. It means that next year you cut guys like Daniel, Flowers, and Fasano. If you drafted right, you might even be able to save money on letting go of a Sean Smith or Mike DeVito. If you're REALLY doing it right, Tamba Hali would also get let go. And that's how you afford to keep Berry, Houston, and Alex Smith.

No, the system isn't perfect. You're going to get some sour picks and sour free agents, but the key is it grants flexibility. That's the most important part. For example, let's say we signed TJ Ward. That means there is less pressure on us to take a Calvin Pryor at 23 when potentially a player like Eric Ebron drops to our spot. Or Mike Evans. Or Darqueze Dennard. Or ****... perhaps even Teddy Bridgewater. The draft is fully of unexpected surprises, and in a deep class like this one, there will be several players that we're shocked to see still available.

If you take care of pressing needs in free agency, that means there's no pressure to take need into account when making your choices. It's the difference between the Chiefs taking Xavier Suo'Filo because they have to and taking Dee Ford or Rashede Hageman because they WANT to.

What have Chiefs done to "reward" KC fans' loyalty?

I'm 26 and the Chiefs have had 15 winning seasons in that span. Only five of those seasons came since the year 2000 and a 3-11 record in the postseason.

And it's not like KC is the only fanbase that follows a mediocre team. Cleveland and Detroit are worse. The Jets have sucked outside of their defensive runs carrying Mark Sanchez. Jacksonville and Tennessee haven't done anything since 1999. Cincinnati is just a step higher than the Chiefs "success" wise. Miami and Buffalo get to be fisted by New England on regular occasions. Dallas is a perennial 8-8 team with the hype of Montana-era 9ers... Some of the same goes to the Bears. The Vikings would've been moved to LA had it not been for the Favre years and Adrian Peterson.

The NFL has been a Patriots / Packers / Steelers / Colts (Peyton Manning) / NFC East-flavor-of-the-week league for the better part of the decade. It looks to be transitioning to a 49ers / Seahawks / Panthers / Colts league owing to their young, marketable stars. It would be really no wonder if interest wanes because all of the other franchises not mentioned above aren't relevant nationwide or to the echo chambers that are ESPN and the NFL Network -especially when you figure out that a lot of these teams have outright sucked for the developmental years of the kids my age or younger: it leads to them being "bandwagon" fans loosely tied to a team that's probably not in their region or caring more on fantasy football.

But coming back to the Chiefs... They've been mediocre at best for almost two decades outside of a handful of seasons where they play exciting ball in the regular season only to get bounced in their first game of the playoffs. Depending on who you ask, they're still at the same competitive level as they were last season or they've actively gotten worse. And they're facing a tougher schedule alignment from drawing the NFC West and AFC East along with being in the awesome spot of being in the division with two other playoff teams last season who swept the Chiefs.

There's really no reason for a team to be overly excited about the team's prospects in the next two seasons when you factor in the age of the team's stars and the moves that haven't been made to get ready for their departure.

But thats not the way it works. Because if you're all in to win now, people will complain if the chiefs draft a guy who doesn't fill an immediate need. The strategy should be to draft, give young guys a shot, and then use free agency to fill in the gaps. The only reason you're putting pressure on the chiefs to draft a safety is because you're convinced they have to win now.

The chiefs don't need a pass rusher. They don't need a QB right away . but if these guys are the bpa , you take them. I would rather the chiefs draft without caring about who fills an immediate need.

Surely... You watched the games after Hali and Houston were out?

Even then, remember how the 2007 Giants beat New England? They had three guys capable of getting after the QB on any given snap.

That's why you spend a little bit of money to bring in a free safety like Ward or even Clemons. Or you re-sign Schwartz or bring in Dietrich-Smith. It's called hedging your bets.

It's just two spots. Only two. We could have filled them cheaply with free agents, and then it wouldn't really matter who we selected in the first. Nobody would bitch about drafting an OLB, QB, CB, or DL for depth at least in his rookie year.

People blow their stacks when the team leaves gaping holes in the roster or fills trivial needs like G with 1st round picks. That's what gets them pissed off.

Then they should also not freak out if we choose to not pay money for trivial holes. I agree, I would flip out if they draft an interior lineman with a high pick. But based on what Schneider and ted Thompson have done, they seem to like filling that late in the draft. It's why I don't get the bashing of comp picks. That is exactly the territory to look for these role guys.

And I disagree... When you have a win now strategy, this team feels forced to draft on need versus bpa. What if we got Byrd and a stud free safety was bpa for our top pick? We wouldn't draft one. It's one of the reasons why I say, if you want to go all in, be careful what you wish for.

Throw into the mix all the goofy things the NFL is doing to "protect the league" needed or made up (by a group of well-meaning lawyers who need to cover their butts), and the league is getting harder for true football fans to enjoy. There will be other who replace us, but overall the true "smash mouth" football fan is having their version of fun replaced with something else.

So while the Chiefs own their own level of fault in losing some of their loyal fan-base, in many ways the league isn't helping the larger cause. But alas, the Chiefs have a market that has around 80K football fans who have little other to do for those 8-10 days a year, and some cash to burn.

If this team signed a FS, when our pick comes up, if Ha Ha Clintom Dix and Odell Beckham Jr are sitting there, then you have the flexibility to select Beckham Jr, because you have the gaping hole at FS already fixed.

If you haven't already filled that gaping hole, then regardless of strategy, be it win now or building for the future, you simply do not have that flexibility.

Drafting that safety both builds to the future and fills that gaping hole that can not simply be ignored in either strategy.

The good news is (unless they're super-stupid!), the Chiefs are lurking on the board and reading all of this. But even if they are, I doubt they'll have the intellectual capacity to do anything about it (the whole desire to win deal spilling over into 1 Arrowhead Way's work ethic), but I suspect they're reading it and heading back into their meetings saying, "don't worry boss everything is fine, your Kingdom loves you, sleep well Sire nobody will hurt your profits tonight as I will be standing guard on the wall!" Then they put a call into Mr. Hy-Vee and Mr. Price Chopper, and tell them they might need to buy a few more $5 tickets" to claim their desired number of sell-outs.

That's fine. You think we are a few pieces away. I don't think we are. We don't have depth which can only be built in the draft. We have too many holes in role positions which I would love to fill in the back of the draft. At times we are relying on average players in key positions like DeVito, when the draft should be finding you playmakers to fill that spot. And we are really overrating how critical some of our core guys are. Houston and Hali, yes. Dj and Flowers, very replaceable. I get that we can draft and make some free agent moves at the same time. But we really make it much harder to extend our window past a few years.

We almost beat an indy team that got whalloped in the second round by a team that is even better this year and didn't even win the conference. I think we are a good team and I get why people's concerns about our draft history creates urgency to win now. But sorry, I think the win now strategy only sets us up for disappointment and a guaranteed collapse by year 3. Just my personal opinion.

You can only get depth in the draft.

Signed,
Jeff Linkenbach

He's just saying that because he wants to start...

True, you can use the scrap pile. And that's brought in quality depth guys like Jordan, McGrath, Cooper, Parker, Abdullah, Schwartz, Watkins, and rishaw Johnson for bargain basement deals. But the more we fill in quality depth, the less we need to bring in other people's scraps like linkenbach. Which is why it doesn't bother me at all that with a low importance position like guard, we aren't afraid to slide in some cheap guys and give them a shot.

:D

OK, so your statement about getting depth through the draft was false then...

Hard to imagine a decline right now though because people are so fervent about the league. Anything and everything they can get. As you say though, "they're everywhere" and everything gets old - just a matter of time before people get their fill.

Is Chris Clemons even worth a shit? Average players on other teams get pimped the hell out of on this board so it's hard to tell. Shit look at Sanders.

Unless we get a QB that grows with the guys we are drafting in the next couple drafts, that window is closing in 3 years anyway.

And since I'm talking about 2nd contract mid tier free agents, we are talking about players that can play with this team for several years, vs. 2 late round picks in a draft that is being labeled as the weakest in years.

He isn't a world beater necessarily but he's a far cry better than anything we've had recently.

Here's a thing jspchief posted from Bleacher Report:

Combine that with the fact that he signed 2-year deal worth $2.7M and only $450K guaranteed and yeah, he would have been a good fit.

I would want the chiefs to follow the Seahawks and 49ers strategy. But am prepared for them to be stupid and not do that. I want them to draft mettenbetger or Murray. Hell draft a QB high every year. Trust me, I realize how many things have to go right for that window to stay open. I believe a good GM can easily do it. I am not convinced yet Dorsey is a good GM but will give him a shot to try.

Gaz debated, but he didn't fight. That's why he isn't here any more. Couldn't stand all the 'pull your head out of your ass and listen here, mother****er' posts.

But his stance was face-raping defense, not his phrase, forgot what his phrase was. To that end, I think the Vermeil era probably killed his Chiefs boner altogether. The way the rules have changed he might not even like football anymore, though I'm sure he loved the **** out of the Seahawks' SB.

He, much like me, enjoyed the days of DT and Neil rushing the edges, Saleamua, and Phillips crashing the middle, and Mincy cock-cocking fools on the second level, while Carter, Lewis and Mighty Mouse had receivers on lock down.

That was football for Gaz.

~ xoxo

That's not very Sporting of you.

I think this is all the downside of parity. Parity is a HUGE part of what makes the NFL so great, compelling games week-in, week-out. But parity also means that even shitty teams are pretty damn good.

For as bad as we had it last year with a Jeckyl Hyde defense and a meltdown in the playoffs, imagine being a Packer fan, they are a blessed franchise, a model franchise, but one arm going up to Aaron Rodger's collarbone and they're INSTANTLY a middle of the road ho-hum team playing out the string, they had to know right away.

Same with us, after the 2011 string of ACLs, we breathe a sigh of relief. That was a fluke, that'll never happen again. Then we see what even minor irritations for Hali and Houston mean for us this past year.

Every single game in the NFL, there are things that happen off screen that, if a savvier set of players recognized it, would have resulted in vastly different outcomes. Some of the most moribund offenses in the league just plain fail to see free-running WRs open for TDs, or flailing OLmen whose deficits aren't being exploited.

The key these days is keeping healthy and having quality depth.

This is what made the Seahawks so exciting to watch throughout the playoffs. Were they the most dominant at every position in the history of the league, no. But they were the best at maximizing positives and minimizing negatives. Is this guy a ferocious playmaker? No, then have him occupy a player in space and let the playmakers make plays elsewhere. They weren't the '854 Bears, . . . but they looked like it because they met power with power and let weakness hide over with weakness.

I've said it before and I'll say it again here, an NFL team is like a naturally aspirated, carburetor fueled engine. One thing gets out of whack and the entire feedback loop is disrupted and the whole machine runs like dog shit. We have a lot of quality players who, if the MACHINE is running clean can rape faces, on O and on D. But you slow down the pass rush 1 millisecond and now you're relying on your FS to keep it all together and his dog shit rises to the surface and the entire swamp looks like a pile of dog shit. Alex can led a well oiled offense, but let Bowe have a few drops, or some of our less savvy WRs run bullshit routes, or barely concuss our best RB and take our 2nd best RB out with injury as well, and we're running the O with a Yugo power plant.

GREAT post.

This is why it's so important to have a difference maker at QB.

They are good deodorant for otherwise powerful stink.