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-   -   Cardinals ***Official 2024 STL Cardinals Thread *** (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=352872)

BigRedChief 08-29-2024 07:05 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Jordan Walker is going to be a star for the Braves after Mozeliak trades him to Atlanta for a 35-year old reliever.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ForTheLou?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ForTheLou</a> X <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BravesCountry?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BravesCountry</a> <a href="https://t.co/KxRWVXkVy0">https://t.co/KxRWVXkVy0</a></p>&mdash; Andrea Katherine (@AndreaKatSTL) <a href="https://twitter.com/AndreaKatSTL/status/1828631992834932792?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 28, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ocotillo 08-30-2024 10:45 AM

I'd still like to see Chaim Bloom get a shot.

He left the Red Sox a gold mine. You should check out their Worcester Triple-A team with Roman Anthony, Kyle Teel, Kristian Campbell, Marcelo Mayer. It's absolutely loaded. Check out Campbell, a fourth round pick out of Georgia Tech that is reminding me of Mookie Betts-lite.

Like St. Louis with Witt, Boston's John Henry has gone cheap, but Bloom still managed to put together a strong player development core. I haven't even mentioned their big league young studs like Triston Casas, Wilyer Abreu, Ceddanne Rafaela.

Rams Fan 08-30-2024 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocotillo (Post 17654555)
I'd still like to see Chaim Bloom get a shot.

He left the Red Sox a gold mine. You should check out their Worcester Triple-A team with Roman Anthony, Kyle Teel, Kristian Campbell, Marcelo Mayer. It's absolutely loaded. Check out Campbell, a fourth round pick out of Georgia Tech that is reminding me of Mookie Betts-lite.

Like St. Louis with Witt, Boston's John Henry has gone cheap, but Bloom still managed to put together a strong player development core. I haven't even mentioned their big league young studs like Triston Casas, Wilyer Abreu, Ceddanne Rafaela.

I don’t want anyone who is at all affiliated with this organization in the front office to replace Mozeliak.

Bloom can GTFO with everyone else.

He also made a horrendous trade of Betts to LA.

Pasta Little Brioni 08-30-2024 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan (Post 17654742)
I don’t want anyone who is at all affiliated with this organization in the front office to replace Mozeliak.

Bloom can GTFO with everyone else.

He also made a horrendous trade of Betts to LA.

Agree. Start completely fresh.

Though the rumor is Mo staying AND a declining payroll blamed on fans "not being loyal "

jd1020 08-30-2024 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocotillo (Post 17654555)
I'd still like to see Chaim Bloom get a shot.

He left the Red Sox a gold mine. You should check out their Worcester Triple-A team with Roman Anthony, Kyle Teel, Kristian Campbell, Marcelo Mayer. It's absolutely loaded.

What is so loaded about their minor league system?

They have a handful of 50 FV prospects. You know what 50 FV projects to be? An Average MLB player. You know how often those kind of prospects even achieve average results? Like 10%.

George Liquor 08-30-2024 12:37 PM

Bloom was a Mo hire right? Sorry, but he's guilty by association. I want every bit of Mo stench removed from Busch.

ChiefsCountry 08-30-2024 12:57 PM

Pham just got DFA. Walker back up.

DJ's left nut 08-30-2024 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 17654758)
What is so loaded about their minor league system?

They have a handful of 50 FV prospects. You know what 50 FV projects to be? An Average MLB player. You know how often those kind of prospects even achieve average results? Like 10%.

I think Mayer is overrated.

That said, Anthony looks special, Teel might be damn good and Campbell looks like he may be the kind of player we hope Wetherholt turns into and they got him with a comp pick.

With Anthony, Mayer, Teel, Campbell and Montgomery, the Sox have 5 guys who are probable top 50 prospects this off-season.

Now is that 'special'? Eh...hard to say. If three of those guys are top 25 guys, it's pretty close. It's not the monster that Baltimore managed to put together, but it's a top 3-5 system pretty easily, IMO. Because it's showing a LOT of forward momentum. Guys like Montgomery and Campbell have been coming on really hard.

I'll say this - I'd put it over any system in the NL Central. And Bloom really didn't get a ton of time to finishing polishing it up to his vision. There's a really good chance the next contending Red Sox team is built on the back of Bloom's efforts in rebuilding that system.

BigRedChief 08-30-2024 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brioni (Post 17654746)
Agree. Start completely fresh.

Though the rumor is Mo staying AND a declining payroll blamed on fans "not being loyal "

They think its bad now, wait till they keep Mo in the org or stay the course, they think fans not coming to the ballpark is bas now? Try that and it'll be a ghost town at Bush in 2025.

DJ's left nut 08-30-2024 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 17654786)
Pham just got DFA. Walker back up.

He roped another one last night where he was able to get his arms extended.

And he really hit well from the moment he got back to Memphis. Tells me that, despite his prolonged pause in St. Louis, some of those changes may have actually stuck. Usually a week of stasis will break a mere hot streak. But if there were genuine mechanical changes that led to his better play in early August, those would surface again when he got an opportunity.

They did.

Can we please play the damn kid? And keep Turner Ward away from him?

Ocotillo 08-31-2024 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 17654758)
What is so loaded about their minor league system?

They have a handful of 50 FV prospects. You know what 50 FV projects to be? An Average MLB player. You know how often those kind of prospects even achieve average results? Like 10%.

Anthony and Meyer are FV 60 on Baseball America, and Teel and Campbell are FV 55.

The Red Sox were ranked seventh overall in farm system rankings this month by MLB Pipeline.

Ocotillo 08-31-2024 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17654806)
I think Mayer is overrated.

I think Mayer is overrated, too.

He has done well age relative wise to the levels he is playing in but I don't see standout tools.

Ocotillo 08-31-2024 01:34 PM

Jordan Walker is 0-for-4 with three strikeouts today.

BigRedChief 08-31-2024 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocotillo (Post 17655733)
Jordan Walker is 0-for-4 with three strikeouts today.

Yell at him, Bench him the next day, send him back to the minors. That'll teach him.

Chief Roundup 08-31-2024 04:46 PM

WOW, so the win today against the Yankees is the first in 60 years.

George Liquor 08-31-2024 05:42 PM

Didn't they sweep the Yankees a couple years ago during that 17 game winning streak?

BigRedChief 08-31-2024 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup (Post 17655866)
WOW, so the win today against the Yankees is the first in 60 years.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The last 2 Cardinals pitchers to win a game at Yankee Stadium:<br><br>Kyle Gibson<br>Bob Gibson</p>&mdash; Quinn (@QuinnSTLCards) <a href="https://twitter.com/QuinnSTLCards/status/1829968894502543870?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 31, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

BigRedChief 08-31-2024 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Liquor (Post 17655911)
Didn't they sweep the Yankees a couple years ago during that 17 game winning streak?

I think the stat is for winning at Yankee stadium.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">For the first time since 1964, the Cardinals have won a game at Yankee Stadium 🤯<br><br>(via <a href="https://twitter.com/MLB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MLB</a>)<a href="https://t.co/bPfZdDhliM">pic.twitter.com/bPfZdDhliM</a></p>&mdash; FOX Sports: MLB (@MLBONFOX) <a href="https://twitter.com/MLBONFOX/status/1829969941711503391?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 31, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

George Liquor 08-31-2024 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 17655986)
I think the stat is for winning at Yankee stadium.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">For the first time since 1964, the Cardinals have won a game at Yankee Stadium ��<br><br>(via <a href="https://twitter.com/MLB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MLB</a>)<a href="https://t.co/bPfZdDhliM">pic.twitter.com/bPfZdDhliM</a></p>&mdash; FOX Sports: MLB (@MLBONFOX) <a href="https://twitter.com/MLBONFOX/status/1829969941711503391?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 31, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ok that makes a whole lot more sense.

Rams Fan 09-01-2024 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brioni (Post 17654746)
Agree. Start completely fresh.

Though the rumor is Mo staying AND a declining payroll blamed on fans "not being loyal "

It’s so ****ing dumb. The Cardinals use accounting maneuvers to say they’re spending more when they really aren’t and how much they are spending isn’t a direct reflection of increased revenue + BPV.

Their refusal to spend on pitching for a true #1 (Gray isn’t a#1 and is older than signing a guy under 30) and inept development is catching up to them.

So they go like 83-79 this year. What ****ing happens in the off-season? More of the same shit with the FO saying they improved from last year.

I’ll be at the game today wearing black for the funeral in the bleachers.

BigRedChief 09-01-2024 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan (Post 17656264)
It’s so ****ing dumb. The Cardinals use accounting maneuvers to say they’re spending more when they really aren’t and how much they are spending isn’t a direct reflection of increased revenue + BPV.

Their refusal to spend on pitching for a true #1 (Gray isn’t a#1 and is older than signing a guy under 30) and inept development is catching up to them.

So they go like 83-79 this year. What ****ing happens in the off-season? More of the same shit with the FO saying they improved from last year.

I’ll be at the game today wearing black for the funeral in the bleachers.

Is wearing black a thing among fans in St. Louis or is that just your choice?

VAChief 09-01-2024 12:57 PM

Just saw a shot of the dugout with Ole looking like Capt. Sobel in BOB. Lost as usual.

<blockquote class="tiktok-embed" cite="https://www.tiktok.com/@binge/video/7343135384571890952" data-video-id="7343135384571890952" style="max-width: 605px;min-width: 325px;" > <section> <a target="_blank" title="@binge" href="https://www.tiktok.com/@binge?refer=embed">@binge</a> There&#39;s a fence, sir. <a title="bandofbrothers" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/bandofbrothers?refer=embed">#BandOfBrothers</a> <a title="bob" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/bob?refer=embed">#BoB</a> <a title="davidschwimmer" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/davidschwimmer?refer=embed">#DavidSchwimmer</a> <a title="sobel" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/sobel?refer=embed">#Sobel</a> <a title="captainsobel" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/captainsobel?refer=embed">#CaptainSobel</a> <a title="cptsobel" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/cptsobel?refer=embed">#CptSobel</a> <a title="army" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/army?refer=embed">#Army</a> <a title="paratrooper" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/paratrooper?refer=embed">#Paratrooper</a> <a title="paratroopers" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/paratroopers?refer=embed">#Paratroopers</a> <a title="airborne" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/airborne?refer=embed">#Airborne</a> <a title="usarmy" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/usarmy?refer=embed">#USArmy</a> <a title="unitedstatesarmy" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/unitedstatesarmy?refer=embed">#UnitedStatesArmy</a> <a title="usa" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/usa?refer=embed">#USA</a> <a title="wwii" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/wwii?refer=embed">#WWII</a> <a title="worldwarii" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/worldwarii?refer=embed">#WorldWarII</a> <a title="tv" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/tv?refer=embed">#TV</a> <a title="tvshow" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/tvshow?refer=embed">#TVShow</a> <a title="tvseries" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/tvseries?refer=embed">#TVSeries</a> <a title="tvclip" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/tvclip?refer=embed">#TVClip</a> <a title="tvclips" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/tvclips?refer=embed">#TVClips</a> <a title="show" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/show?refer=embed">#Show</a> <a title="series" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/series?refer=embed">#Series</a> <a title="clip" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/clip?refer=embed">#Clip</a> <a title="clips" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/clips?refer=embed">#Clips</a> <a title="war" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/war?refer=embed">#War</a> <a title="wardrama" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/wardrama?refer=embed">#WarDrama</a> <a title="miniseries" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/miniseries?refer=embed">#Miniseries</a> <a title="binge" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/binge?refer=embed">#BINGE</a> <a title="isawitonbinge" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/isawitonbinge?refer=embed">#ISawItOnBINGE</a> <a target="_blank" title="♬ original sound - BINGE" href="https://www.tiktok.com/music/original-sound-BINGE-7343135515199605506?refer=embed">♬ original sound - BINGE</a> </section> </blockquote> <script async src="https://www.tiktok.com/embed.js"></script>

VAChief 09-01-2024 01:04 PM

That’s the swing Walker needs! Hopefully they don’t screw him up again.

Pasta Little Brioni 09-01-2024 01:09 PM

When they've lost Ramsfan, they lost the fan base

BigRedChief 09-01-2024 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAChief (Post 17656494)
That’s the swing Walker needs! Hopefully they don’t screw him up again.

maybe they learn their lesson. Someone with that much talent goes 0-4 you don’t bench him. Send him to the minors.

BigRedChief 09-01-2024 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brioni (Post 17656498)
When they've lost Ramsfan, they lost the fan base

Yeah we all got to Mo and the Dewitt jr have to go 3-4 years ago. I think he just turned on Mo last year.

Rams Fan 09-01-2024 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 17656274)
Is wearing black a thing among fans in St. Louis or is that just your choice?

My choice. Stayed all 9. Got poured on.

Game was fun to see the Yankees get their ass kicked but went against me wanting to see the Cardinals lose.

ChiefsCountry 09-02-2024 01:42 PM

Pages looks like a beer league softball player but has two homers today lol.

Pasta Little Brioni 09-02-2024 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 17656748)
Yeah we all got to Mo and the Dewitt jr have to go 3-4 years ago. I think he just turned on Mo last year.

Still proud of him!

DJ's left nut 09-03-2024 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 17654758)
What is so loaded about their minor league system?

They have a handful of 50 FV prospects. You know what 50 FV projects to be? An Average MLB player. You know how often those kind of prospects even achieve average results? Like 10%.

Per BA's End of Year update:

Anthony is now #2 (behind Caminero, who's going to graduate)
Mayer -- 11
Campbell -- 25
Teel -- 26


Montgomery isn't rocketing up like the rst of them, but he's moved up to 61. I predicted 3 top 25 guys in the update and damn near got 4 (Teel will move into the top 25 in about 2 weeks when Caminero graduates). I also said they probably have 5 top 50 guys and just missed with Montgomery not quite breaking into it.

But when you have 4 guys in the top 25 and all of them are in AAA, it's hard to say that isn't a pretty loaded system.

BigRedChief 09-04-2024 06:37 AM

Man I miss those 2001-2011 days. Even when he came back as a shell of himself from that era, he still managed somehow to reach 700. He was my favorite player since Bob Gibson.

This version of the Cardinals are a disgrace to the uniform. Not the players fault. Front office and ownership is the root cause of our issues.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Albert Pujols on his favorite tee drill &amp; objective, today on <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MLBCentral?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MLBCentral</a>:<br>- Tee on outside corner (on the black)<br>- Drive the ball the other way, hit line drives; *NOT* hit the top of the cage. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/shegone?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#shegone</a> <a href="https://t.co/rUlRcLGG1c">pic.twitter.com/rUlRcLGG1c</a></p>&mdash; Tony Wuench (@twuench) <a href="https://twitter.com/twuench/status/1831031433248596007?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 3, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script

DJ's left nut 09-04-2024 08:13 AM

I still think Laypeople and broadcasters are getting this more wrong than the overwhelming majority of high level coaches.

This idea that coaches are teaching guys to 'swing up' as part of the launch angle revolution isn't right. Launch angle is little more than a re-labeling of things that Ted Williams was touting 50 years ago.

It's about bringing your bat on the same plane as the pitch. Not because you're trying to lift the ball necessarily, but because you're trying to stay in the hitting lane longer and that's only going to happen by coming at the same attack angle as the pitch (rather than trying to time your downward strike INTO the attack angle).

That's what the 'knob first' approach creates. And that's what Albert is teaching here. You get the knob into the zone first and then your hands can make fine adjustments as you're swinging to change the angle of the barrel as it comes through the zone.

Now I have no idea what the Cardinals are teaching. I think Mabry and Matheny had it COMPLETELY wrong and were teaching exactly what the most dour dissenters claim the launch angle folks are teaching. But the vast majority aren't saying "hit the ball into the net in the cage" - no, most of them are still teaching middle/pull, knob first, adjust to the plane.

All Pujols is talking about here is a consistent first stage. On any pitch you throw a guy with that particular setup and attack, his hands are going to come to the and then its the finish and his hands/eyes that allow him to get on plane with the ball (or stay inside it, etc...) and drive it.

Telling someone like Walker to focus on launch angle isn't telling him to hit pop-ups. It's telling him to stop 'chopping wood' like guys my age were taught. "Strike down on the front of the baseball to create backspin and loft..." just requires such pristine timing that it isn't going to work for most guys.

But knob first to keep the barrel behind, then drive through the baseball with your finish is a 'true' launch angle discussion. And that's absolutely what Walker needs to be taught. If he isn't, you're going to waste all that talent.

DJ's left nut 09-04-2024 08:18 AM

Here's a photo of Pujols on a HR.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GWlTAJqX...jpg&name=small

Folks wanna act like Pujols is saying 'swing flat and up the middle' but he's not. That's clearly not what he did here. He led with the knob and the hands came down right where he's showing, then you can see that he drew them in, opened his hips and swung UP to match the plane of the incoming pitch.

More fans simply don't understand 'launch angle' much and so they've come to hate the concept. They're wrong.

If you were to characterize this as "How Ted Williams was teaching guys to hit decades ago" they'd love it. And Bonds really revitalized it with the added step of actually 'looping' the barrel of the bat behind his hands as he brought them down to create additional whip.

DJ's left nut 09-04-2024 08:21 AM

To anyone that will tell you that 'launch angle is hooey' -- show them this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRruuJEV...jpg&name=small

There's simply not better visual representation than can be made of what the good launch angle guys are trying to explain.

And this was from Ted Williams book "The Science of Hitting" published in 1970.

This isn't new. It's not witchcraft. It's the right way to do it. Nothing Pujols says in that entire MLB segment actually runs opposite to anything the launch angle guys say. All he's talking about his his first movement. The rest of it...well, you can see by the photo of his swing. He does EXACTLY what Williams and modern acolytes of his will tell you to do.

Ocotillo 09-25-2024 09:54 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Eight players from the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> system have been named to the Glendale Desert Dogs roster for the 2024 Arizona Fall League season:<br> <br>INF Thomas Saggese (MLB) (No.4)<br>C Leonardo Bernal (AA) (No. 9)<br>OF Nathan Church (AA)<br>LHP Alex Cornwell (AAA)<br>RHP Matt Svanson (AA)<br>RHP Trent Baker… <a href="https://t.co/B2nyzVLwcj">https://t.co/B2nyzVLwcj</a></p>&mdash; Cardinals Player Development (@CardsPlayerDev) <a href="https://twitter.com/CardsPlayerDev/status/1838963674557399550?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 25, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

DJ's left nut 09-25-2024 10:01 AM

Lord - we're sending organizational chaff like Matt Svanson to the AFL?

Yeah, that says about what needs to be said about the state of our system.

George Liquor 09-25-2024 12:13 PM

Gotta try something, since the organization doesn't seem too interested in playing in the MLB fall league anymore.

Pasta Little Brioni 09-25-2024 07:48 PM

Butters and Carey absolutely giddy that they can get to 81 wins...

Ocotillo 09-27-2024 09:36 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chaim Bloom To Take On Larger Role In Cardinals&#39; Front Office <a href="https://t.co/68SK22ds14">https://t.co/68SK22ds14</a> <a href="https://t.co/QfsWsgUHlv">pic.twitter.com/QfsWsgUHlv</a></p>&mdash; MLB Trade Rumors (@mlbtraderumors) <a href="https://twitter.com/mlbtraderumors/status/1839690193638425081?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 27, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

raybec 4 09-27-2024 09:43 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/579...shared-article

DJ's left nut 09-27-2024 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raybec 4 (Post 17709103)

And somehow people will use this as evidence that Mozeliak was hamstrung.

Dude has plenary authority over all of baseball ops. HE chose that direction that led to the implosion of our player development system.

And idiot assholes like me pointed this out EIGHT YEARS AGO.

When the Cardinals were still winning 90-100 games/season many of us were saying "Hey guys...uh...do you notice that our minor leagues usually kinda suck?"

Marco Polo 09-27-2024 10:36 AM

It has not been a fun year. Burn all of management and start over.

Marco Polo 09-27-2024 01:28 PM

Can someone post the entirety of that article? My subscription with the Athletic ran its course

Marcellus 09-27-2024 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Polo (Post 17709400)
Can someone post the entirety of that article? My subscription with the Athletic ran its course

I cancelled my subscription the 2nd time after they yet again posted political bullshit with a story on how Tim Walz was a hero football coach. It was literally a free campaign article.

I cancelled once before after another political story they ran and told them why, they basically hit me back a few months later with a $20 for a year offer so reupped for 1 year. Ended up cancelling again.

**** that rag as I told them I don't go to sports news sights to read about politics.

Miles 09-27-2024 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17709158)
And somehow people will use this as evidence that Mozeliak was hamstrung.

Dude has plenary authority over all of baseball ops. HE chose that direction that led to the implosion of our player development system.

And idiot assholes like me pointed this out EIGHT YEARS AGO.

When the Cardinals were still winning 90-100 games/season many of us were saying "Hey guys...uh...do you notice that our minor leagues usually kinda suck?"

I knew they were trying to keep the MLB roster duct taped together but hadn’t quite realized the extent they were just not spending on anything development related to pay for the duct tape. It makes some of those dumb contracts and particularly lighting money on fire with extensions all the more frustrating.

VAChief 09-27-2024 03:21 PM

No worries I sense Matt Carpenter like extensions for Arenado and Goldschmidt coming soon.

ChiefsCountry 09-27-2024 11:26 PM

Cardinals need to get on this one.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: Miami manager Skip Schumaker told Marlins players tonight he will not return to the team in 2025, sources told ESPN.<br><br>He immediately becomes the top available manager and will be a coveted free agent this winter. News, free and unlocked, at ESPN: <a href="https://t.co/HOhTzfzghC">https://t.co/HOhTzfzghC</a></p>&mdash; Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) <a href="https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1839898844739387475?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 28, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

BigRedChief 09-28-2024 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 17710325)
Cardinals need to get on this one.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: Miami manager Skip Schumaker told Marlins players tonight he will not return to the team in 2025, sources told ESPN.<br><br>He immediately becomes the top available manager and will be a coveted free agent this winter. News, free and unlocked, at ESPN: <a href="https://t.co/HOhTzfzghC">https://t.co/HOhTzfzghC</a></p>&mdash; Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) <a href="https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1839898844739387475?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 28, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Can’t do worse than Olli. He knows how bad Mo is. He’ll have more than 1 offer. If Mo stays next year, I don’t see anyway he comes here.

DJ's left nut 09-28-2024 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAChief (Post 17709533)
No worries I sense Matt Carpenter like extensions for Arenado and Goldschmidt coming soon.

If the fans not showing up accomplishes nothing else, at least it deprived them of the gate revenue they'd use to extend Goldschmidt.

So that's nice.

DJ's left nut 09-28-2024 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miles (Post 17709477)
I knew they were trying to keep the MLB roster duct taped together but hadn’t quite realized the extent they were just not spending on anything development related to pay for the duct tape. It makes some of those dumb contracts and particularly lighting money on fire with extensions all the more frustrating.

That's what happens when you keep an executive past his sell-by date.

He starts to make shortsighted decisions to save his job.

If we'd have moved on from Mozeliak when I wanted to, the new blood makes the long term decisions 5+ years ago that the honeymoon period allows him to make and we aren't in this position.

This is all born of God-awful leadership and nothing more.

George Liquor 09-28-2024 10:46 AM

Being in a situation where you're hamstrung by Oliver Marmol should be enough to cost you your job, but for some reason Mo is bullet proof.

ThyKingdomCome15 09-28-2024 11:00 AM

I remember a time when the Cardinals were the best managed team in the league. That time appears to have passed.

Pasta Little Brioni 09-28-2024 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 17710325)
Cardinals need to get on this one.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: Miami manager Skip Schumaker told Marlins players tonight he will not return to the team in 2025, sources told ESPN.<br><br>He immediately becomes the top available manager and will be a coveted free agent this winter. News, free and unlocked, at ESPN: <a href="https://t.co/HOhTzfzghC">https://t.co/HOhTzfzghC</a></p>&mdash; Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) <a href="https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1839898844739387475?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 28, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

**** no.

Chief Roundup 09-28-2024 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brioni (Post 17710909)
**** no.

Why? Who do you want over him? Daniel Descalso?

Pasta Little Brioni 09-28-2024 06:36 PM

I don't want a former Cardinal....period

'Hamas' Jenkins 09-28-2024 07:38 PM

I cannot wait to never watch Goldschmidt again.

Chief Roundup 09-28-2024 07:54 PM

Chances are we will still have Mo and Marmol for one more year.

Pasta Little Brioni 09-28-2024 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 17711402)
I cannot wait to never watch Goldschmidt again.

I refused to watch till Mo is gone. Went to 0 games for the first time and didn't watch a full one on TV.

Pasta Little Brioni 09-28-2024 07:58 PM

Save Our Cardinals?

Chief Roundup 09-28-2024 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brioni (Post 17711429)
I refused to watch till Mo is gone. Went to 0 games for the first time and didn't watch a full one on TV.

I have been hearing that Mo's contract is through 2025 and it is expected that he will get to see that out and then be promised a position within the organization. -

Pasta Little Brioni 09-28-2024 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup (Post 17711432)
I have been hearing that Mo's contract is through 2025 and it is expected that he will get to see that out and then be promised a position within the organization. -

Then Chaim takes over and continues the cycle

BigRedChief 09-29-2024 11:03 AM

Whats the industry's take on Chaim? We lucky to have him? or who knows? no thanks?

DJ's left nut 09-29-2024 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brioni (Post 17711429)
I refused to watch till Mo is gone. Went to 0 games for the first time and didn't watch a full one on TV.

Haven't been to a game since they fired Shildt. Won't until Mozeliak is gone.

Haven't watched more than probably 30-40 innings spread over a few dozen games this year.

It's just not worth my time.

There's no reason to root for this team.

Ocotillo 09-29-2024 01:21 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Cardinals To Part Ways With Paul Goldschmidt This Winter <a href="https://t.co/o9ndKphTSY">https://t.co/o9ndKphTSY</a> <a href="https://t.co/WxcOEn8UYX">pic.twitter.com/WxcOEn8UYX</a></p>&mdash; MLB Trade Rumors (@mlbtraderumors) <a href="https://twitter.com/mlbtraderumors/status/1840471376265712060?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 29, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

DJ's left nut 09-30-2024 01:26 PM

Watching the presser this afternoon, one thing really does stand out ---

I absolutely hate these mother****ers.

Every last one of them.

The fact that Bloom will sit up there with these pricks makes me hate him by association.

You can all eat shit. All of the shit.

Ocotillo 09-30-2024 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17717911)
Watching the presser this afternoon, one thing really does stand out ---

I absolutely hate these mother****ers.

Every last one of them.

The fact that Bloom will sit up there with these pricks makes me hate him by association.

You can all eat shit. All of the shit.

At least the Giants canned Farhan Zaidi today even though his replacement is a total shot in the dark (Buster Posey). The Giants probably wish they would have kept Scott Harris.

I don't understand why they wouldn't just promote Bloom and can both Mo and Girsch. This tippy toe around the problem is surely going to be a massive failure.

DJ's left nut 09-30-2024 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocotillo (Post 17717943)
At least the Giants canned Farhan Zaidi today even though his replacement is a total shot in the dark (Buster Posey). The Giants probably wish they would have kept Scott Harris.

I don't understand why they wouldn't just promote Bloom and can both Mo and Girsch. This tippy toe around the problem is surely going to be a massive failure.

Mozeliak actually stepped on BDW mid-answer.

That's the dynamic.

They aren't firing Mozeliak because BDW is checked the **** out, BD3 is a clueless child and Mozeliak calls his own shots these days.

DJ's left nut 09-30-2024 02:10 PM

"We had 83 wins and this was an exciting product..."

Y'know what, DeWitt? Nevermind. Next year just skip the presser.

If this is what you have to say, just shut the **** up. Go back to gumming Werther's and let your dipshit son go ruin your entire organization via open antagonism on sports radio.

Man, I really loathe this organization.

Rams Fan 09-30-2024 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17717953)
Mozeliak actually stepped on BDW mid-answer.

That's the dynamic.

They aren't firing Mozeliak because BD3 is checked the **** out and Mozeliak calls his own shots these days.

I view it as Mo falling on his sword knowing next year is not going to be good and to give Bloom a fresh slate.

Which I don’t mind.

Personally would’ve hired someone else than Bloom as he’s guilty by association and he got a horrible return for Mookie.

DJ's left nut 09-30-2024 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan (Post 17718013)
I view it as Mo falling on his sword knowing next year is not going to be good and to give Bloom a fresh slate.

Which I don’t mind.

Personally would’ve hired someone else than Bloom as he’s guilty by association and he got a horrible return for Mookie.

He was never gonna set the world on fire with the return for Betts, especially when he had the edict from ownership to trim payroll so he had to include Price in the deal.

They gave up quite a bit of prospect capital with including Price in the trade. And greatly reduced the number of teams willing to make the move because most don't have the financial wherewithal to eat Price's contract.

So with fewer potential trade partners and a massive financial liability in tow, they weren't gonna get a haul for Betts.

And frankly, Connor Wong is a pretty good player.

But yeah, Jeter Downs looks like a bust.

Sometimes when a deal is that mediocre from the jump, it says more about the player than the deal. I argued this very point when I said that the Cardinals didn't 'fleece' anyone on the Goldschmidt or Arenado deals. When all the trading team can get for their star player is a pile of mediocre prospects, that means NOBODY in the league was willing to step up with a top 25 sort of guy.

I think his hands were tied in the Betts deal and the league knew it. So he just couldn't develop a market for him.

That all being said - **** him anyway for hitching his wagon to these guys.

'Hamas' Jenkins 09-30-2024 02:19 PM

I went to Albert's first game back so I could cheer him. I hope Goldschmidt's team comes to Busch next year so I can buy cheap tickets on the secondary market to boo the piss out of him.

DJ's left nut 09-30-2024 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 17718032)
I went to Albert's first game back so I could cheer him. I hope Goldschmidt's team comes to Busch next year so I can buy cheap tickets on the secondary market to boo the piss out of him.

I almost went to Busch for Shildt's return in Padres gear.

I couldn't quite get there. I'm not going to root for these guys, but I'm not going to go into the stadium and cheer for the OTHER guys either.

And in the end, simply being there is a tick for Mozeliak and even if it was only showing up to boo his dipshit organization, they don't care. Asses in the seats are asses in the seats.

DJ's left nut 09-30-2024 02:23 PM

Ultimately I think this is just lipstick on a pig.

They're going to cut payroll and they don't have a way to sell it to the fans. So they're going to call it a 'Youth Movement' and then tell everyone "hey guys, come see the young Cardinals and the return of our player development machine!!"

It's really just nothing more than them spinning their pending payroll productions. Its so they can say "Hey guys, we told you we were going to invest in our minor leagues..."

And then they talk about nothing more than their new facility in Jupiter, as though that has SHIT to do with minor league player development or the development of young players at the big league level.

It's all bullshit. Every single bit of it.

Rams Fan 09-30-2024 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17718028)
He was never gonna set the world on fire with the return for Betts, especially when he had the edict from ownership to trim payroll so he had to include Price in the deal.

They gave up quite a bit of prospect capital with including Price in the trade. And greatly reduced the number of teams willing to make the move because most don't have the financial wherewithal to eat Price's contract.

So with fewer potential trade partners and a massive financial liability in tow, they weren't gonna get a haul for Betts.

And frankly, Connor Wong is a pretty good player.

But yeah, Jeter Downs looks like a bust.

Sometimes when a deal is that mediocre from the jump, it says more about the player than the deal. I argued this very point when I said that the Cardinals didn't 'fleece' anyone on the Goldschmidt or Arenado deals. When all the trading team can get for their star player is a pile of mediocre prospects, that means NOBODY in the league was willing to step up with a top 25 sort of guy.

I think his hands were tied in the Betts deal and the league knew it. So he just couldn't develop a market for him.

That all being said - **** him anyway for hitching his wagon to these guys.


I know his hands were tied because Henry wanted to cut payroll, but that doesn’t excuse the shit return he got.

Either way, this is a signal that the Cardinals want to be more like the Rays and Brewers than the Dodgers and Astros. Investing in minor league infrastructure while reducing MLB payroll is a bullshit way of saying we aren’t winning shit and weren’t going to win shit and don’t feel like spending as much as we can to have a contending product.

DJ's left nut 09-30-2024 02:27 PM

Farhan Zaidi gets shitcanned - Mozeliak gets a retirement tour.

That's really about all that needs to be said.

Rams Fan 09-30-2024 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17718056)
Farhan Zaidi gets shitcanned - Mozeliak gets a retirement tour.

That's really about all that needs to be said.

One guy won 2 pennants and WS while working for the team for almost 3 decades.

The other didn’t do shit.

'Hamas' Jenkins 09-30-2024 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17718047)
Ultimately I think this is just lipstick on a pig.

They're going to cut payroll and they don't have a way to sell it to the fans. So they're going to call it a 'Youth Movement' and then tell everyone "hey guys, come see the young Cardinals and the return of our player development machine!!"

It's really just nothing more than them spinning their pending payroll productions. Its so they can say "Hey guys, we told you we were going to invest in our minor leagues..."

And then they talk about nothing more than their new facility in Jupiter, as though that has SHIT to do with minor league player development or the development of young players at the big league level.

It's all bullshit. Every single bit of it.

Isn't the current excuse that they can't build a pitching lab in Jupiter due to issues with zoning and the city?

DJ's left nut 09-30-2024 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan (Post 17718061)
One guy won 2 pennants and WS while working for the team for almost 3 decades.

The other didn’t do shit.

He won executive of the year and took the Giants to a 107 win season 2 years ago.

That's more than Mozeliak's done in the last decade.

BigRedChief 09-30-2024 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17718009)
"We had 83 wins and this was an exciting product..."

Y'know what, DeWitt? Nevermind. Next year just skip the presser.

Man, I really loathe this organization.

He pisses me off. He is supposedly a "good" baseball man, when compared to other owners. But, the son appears to be an idiot. And he's the one running the day to day stuff, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17718082)
He won executive of the year and took the Giants to a 107 win season 2 years ago.

That seems impressive that a low life org like us that we landed someone 2 years removed from the top executive on baseball. So why is not a good thing? He didn't really build those teams or what? Why are you down on a guy 2 years removed from executive of the year awards?

Contracts are both up for Mo and the idiot manager net year, right?

Why isn't this a situation where Dewitt hires this guy to do the deep dive into what's wrong with the minors? Who's the problem? What needs to be implemented.

Then in 2025 Bloom becomes GM and he brings in his own manager and minor league staff thats on board with his modernization of the minors?

I wanted Mo gone like 4-5 years ago. So him not being fired sucks big time but we wanted Pioli gone years before he was actually fired.

Rams Fan 09-30-2024 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17718082)
He won executive of the year and took the Giants to a 107 win season 2 years ago.

That's more than Mozeliak's done in the last decade.

And had non-winning seasons the other 4 seasons of his tenure.


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