I don't necessarily think Maddon is a bad manager per say, there's plenty of options out there worse than him like Matheny, but its pretty obvious that he's not cut out to manage the pressure. Stick him in Tampa where no one gives a **** and he can do whatever he wants, but there's not a person around that wont say that Maddon did not try as hard as he could to lose that World Series with his management from having a ****ing 5 run lead and bringing in Chapman in the 8th inning of game 6 after he's overworked him the entire series to taking out Hendricks in game 7 when he was absolutely dealing to go to his prescripted plan of bringing in Lester who promptly throws a wild pitch that scores 2 runs.

I'm sorry, but that argument just doesn't wash anymore.

Yes, they got Correa #1 overall, but don't act like he was a clear consensus #1. No, everyone didn't agree that Correa was far and away a better player than the rest. In fact, the Correa pick was a late comer (and I was pretty proud of myself because I was watching the kid as a possible later 1st round pick for STL early in the draft season; he skyrocketed up boards) that surprised a lot of people. Most saw Buxton as the top talent in that draft. Others liked Zunino. And really, EVERYONE saw Mark Appel as the top talent in that draft if his demands were met. Signability concerns were all that pushed him down boards a bit.

Most GMs would've taken Appel. You KNOW Mozeliak would've taken Appel. Luhnow took Correa and the pick was brilliant.

Bregman was also a top pick but again, with an asterisk. Bregman was taken #2 overall that year but do you remember why the Astros picked there? Because they took Aiken #1 overall the year prior and he wouldn't sign after medicals turned up a compromised UCL. Luhnow took worlds of shit from the baseball community (shit Mozeliak wouldn't have been willing to take), let him walk, recaptured the pick and used it the following season on Bregman. It took serious conviction for Luhnow to did what he did there and he was rewarded for it.

Springer was taken in the mid-1st. Alvarez was acquired for Fields. Gurriel a FA. Cole was picked up with a poo poo platter of mediocre prospects (similar to the package the Cards gave up for Ozuna). Verlander was acquired for nothing but salary relief. Ozuna as a distressed asset. Brantley clips off 3 win seasons like they're nothing since 2014 and Luhnow gets him on a low-cost 2 year deal - Fowler has 1 decent year in the last 5 and Mozeliak guarantees him $80 million.

You look at the guys they're trading away, these were mid-1st rounders. Seth Beer was taken later in his draft than Nick Plummer was taken in his but Nick Plummer will be out of baseball in 2 years while Beer's headlining deals for CY winners. Bukauskas was taken around Wacha's spot and we let Wacha's value dwindle to nothing because our GM has no marbles.

The Astros lost a guy in McCullers who has been able to dominate major league hitters and they don't skip a beat. Correa and Springer go down and they just plug in Gurriel and Alvarez (neither high picks) because their depth is outstanding. Meanwhile we lose Matt Carpenter and his negative WAR and Alex Reyes and Mozeliak uses it as an excuse to fold up his tent.

Tucker's the last of the 'high pick' prospects and they don't even need the guy. The Astros aren't great because they sucked. They're great because their GM is great. They're great because their front office has a plan and is committed to securing another title.

That argument simply doesn't wash if you actually start to look at their system. They're an amazingly well run organization.

The Cardinals, OTOH, are not.

Brilliant.

The stuff about their minor league players just crushing the competition in key indicators is impressive too (best strikeout rate in each league for pitchers, best hard-hit for hitters, etc).

Luhnow’s org has no weaknesses. It drafts well. It develops consistently and excellently. They trade well.

I mean, they got Yordan Alvarez for 2 months of Josh ****ing Fields.

And they’re not afraid to zig when the industry zags.

Forrest Whitley is the latest example. They have him basically completely rebuilding himself in the lower minors despite the fact he was almost to MlB because he had a few mechanical flaws holding back his command and results.

How many other orgs would have the balls to demote the top pitching prospect in baseball from AAA to A to completely re-work mechanics?

None.

Bob Nutting is good at making money at a ski resort.

That sums up my Pirates.

To follow up, they’re going to take Aaron Sanchez and turn him into a monster because they’re going to have him focus on what he actually does well and stop asking him to pound the bottom of the zone with a sinker.

And all it cost them was Derek Fisher. What an org.

We are nothing more than a glorified farm team for the upper echelon of the MLB.

I've been a fan since 1970 and my first game ever was seeing Roberto Clemente, Bill Mazerowski, Dock Ellis and Willie Stargell all in one game against the Phillies at the Vet.

To think it's been now 40 years since we've been in a World Series is a joke for the history of this team and what they once were. :crybaby:

I'm surprised this shit-stain of a franchise didn't trade Josh Bell and Starling Marte for some broke dick 40 year old reliever.

The Chris Archer trade was an abortion, just like our management. :Lin:

It is sad that this is the reality of modern baseball. And for the most part, it seems now that everybody who is not the Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers falls into this category. Some of the other teams can hold on to some of their star players, but the cream of the crop always seems to end up with those bloated soulless ****s.

But remember the Royals. It is always possible for the stars to briefly align for a small market team. They'll be picked clean and destroyed within a season or two, but pennants and championships last forever.

The Padres, Phillies, and Angels have handed out the largest three contracts of late.

The Archer trade was just bad execution of the sort of commitment you would want to see from a team like the Pirates.

The problem wasn't what they did, it was who they did it for.

All anyone needed to do to understand how bad that trade was for them was watch Archer pitch. Don't look at his overall stats, don't fall in love with the peripherals. That works for some guys but for some it just does not.

When you see Archer quit on an AB and give up a missle with a 3 run lead because he didn't want to hurt his sparkly K-BB rate and he'd fallen behind by nibbling instead of attacking the hitter (because again, trying to get that K) you realize real quickly that he's one of the very few 'losing' pitchers in this game.

I don't toss that term around lightly; most guys are more unlucky or just bad than they are someone who self-sabotages. Archer, OTOH, is a loser - pure and simple. Put him on the Astros and he'd go 12-8.

Y'all fell in love with the numbers but the scouts clearly didn't just watch the guy that much.

THAT right there was what was so AWESOME about how the Astros won their 1st title in 2017. Meant so much to roll Boston, New York and LA in the process! Might get a repeat this season...

Though if the Astros go again, I hope they face the Cardinals. Im sick of LA and cant stand the Cubs or Braves. It's old NL hate.

Wow! Carpenter still sucks! Who would have thought?

And they are currently 20.5, 7.0 and 17.0 games out of first.

Great points and I never dug that deep. They traded for a guy they thought could win at that moment and gave up TWO excellent prospects in Meadows and Glasnow who've been kicking ass.

Our prior pitching coach was great but this new guy sucks cock. He doesn't know how to get the most from pitchers.

And it appears Jung Ho Kung can only play well when he is all liquored up. He sucks on sobriety.

That's the point, though. The big market teams aren't succeeding because of their market size, but because they're well-run organizations. When the Yankees were spending like idiots the last years of Steinbrenner's life they weren't nearly as successful.

It costs very little to set up a program like the Astros did. The Pirates aren't floundering because they're a farm team; they're floundering because they can't develop or evaluate players.