Who is the GOAT QB?
 

Other than Mahomes, of course... :D

I came up with my top 10, or you can fill in the blank.

(Jesus, no Brees. I am a genious... :shake:)

Get lost **** face.

Tommy Maddox.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmMJ488UYAE7ncG.jpg

Statistically . Drew Brees. And don't give me that Dome crap. If he'd been drafted by Belechick He'd have left Brady in the dust.

CRAP, I should've included Brees. Jesus. My poll is f'ing invalid. Goddammit!!!

If a Mod can add Brees? Dunno if that's even possible. Ah well, let the thread die I guess. Massive, stupid, oversight.

Patrick Mahomes. Voted "Other".

Well we don't expect you to pay attention to details.

What are you , a lawyer or something.

for me it's hard to come up with 'The Greatest" just given how much the league has changed/ evolved. And, personally, I don't equate SB wins to a level of greatness; short of a QB carrying his team to a win. It's such a team game, it's hard to say X QB is better than Y because he has more SB wins etc.


I've always thought Marino was a bad MF at QB. Especially back in those days when the QB would actually get hit.

I'd probably have Marino, Montana, Brees, Manning and Brady. but I'd have a hard time slotting them in any order.

I think that is a very fair answer. It's hard in any sport, but especially football, which is the ultimate team sport. There is no question but that Montana had some advantage with an innovative system and great talent. Brady an advantage with a great coach and consistency during his entire career. How do you balance that against Marino, who had a great coach, but overall not great talent? Dome vs non-dome?

I realize that I should say Joe Montana, but I have to vote for Dan Marino. That guy was amazing. He was almost Mahomes-ian in his abilities.

This probably isn't fair to Otto Graham and Johnny Unitas, or Sammy Baugh for that matter. Those guys were before my time, but if you look at them relative to their time, they were amazing players.

Sammy Baugh threw for almost 3,000 yards in 1947 with a 90+ passer rating, and Otto Graham dominated the league for years in both production and championships. Johnny Unitas was the first NFL passer to hit 3,000 yards in 1960, and he did it in a 12-game season.

You can’t balance it. That’s why GOAT debates are internet and talk radio fodder. I’m not sure if you can pick one single major sport and have an undisputed GOAT. Gretzky would be the closest but I’d bet you get some brushback on that, even.

If I'm being honest the answer has to be Brady.

But Mahomes will pass him in due time :)

Philip Rivers

Bernard Pollard

1. Brady
2. Montana
3. Bradshaw
4. Elway
5, Manning/Manning
6. Favre/Rodgers

There are so many factors to take into account.

Brady would not be Brady had he been drafted into the situation that some others have been drafted into. He would still probably be an all time great, but not a 6-time Super Bowl winning QB without that organization and Belichik.

On pure ability, I have a hard time thinking of a more gifted QB than Mahomes. He can literally do everything. He makes throws that no other QB can make. I don’t think that’s hyperbole either.

Brees, Brady, and Peyton are the most productive QBs ever, but I think all of their numbers will be surpassed sooner rather than later. They’re really the first group of elite QBs to play almost their entire primes in the “Passing League” era of the NFL. A lot of their early career numbers aren’t all that impressive. The QBs drafted into this era that become the next batch of greats will probably have better numbers when they retire.

For instance, right now there have only been 13 seasons in which a QB has thrown for 40 TDs or more. 8 of those were in 2010 or later. Prior to 1999, only 1 QB ever had done (Marino twice in the 80’s).

I think Mahomes will easily have 7+ seasons of 40 TDs if he plays as long as Brady or Brees. I don’t think that’s a knock on those guys either. It’s partially of product of playing in this era.

For me

Montana and Elway

Manning is up there too, but whilted under pressure too much.

Greatest passer of all time is Brees or Warner; everyone else can vie for #3 if they'd like, but as pure passers I've never seen anyone better than those 2.

Greatest multi-threat QB of all time is Steve Young. And if I could choose any QB to start a franchise with and have that QB at 23 yrs old going forward, it would be Mahomes...but Young would be #2. I think you could've given him any coach and any system at any time and he'd have been able to execute it at the highest level. Steve Young is criminally underrated.

Greatest career of all time has to be Brady. I mean **** you if I'll ever vote for him in a poll or anything; I'm not reducing that to a number. But dude has like 10 AFC championships and 6 SB rings or whatever - the numbers are so goddamn ridiculous as to defy memory. He has SB comebacks and amazing playoff performances. Sure, his coach is a wizard and his division is a joke so he has had more opportunities than anyone, but he's done quite a damn bit on his own.

Speaking of wilting under pressure, have you ever seen a summary of Elway's performances in the postseason?

The issue, as always, comes down to perception.

If we look at statistics, the answer is unquestionably Drew Brees.

If we look at SBs, the answer has to be Brady.

If we look at arm talent, (excepting Mahomes who doesn't have enough data to analyze properly) it's Marino.

And so on.

I based my answer on which QBs I've actually seen in their primes, which excluded Baugh, Graham, and Unitas.

But when we look at how a QB played under pressure and, in the end, which QB would I want under center with 2 minutes on the clock to win the SB, the answer is pretty easy: it has to be Joe "Cool" Montana.

Question: Why doesn't anyone criticize Brees for this?

The dude has 2 of the most inexplicable losses of all time on his playoff resume. The 2010 1st round home playoff loss to a 7-9 football team. A Seahawks team that was losing 35-10 in the 4th quarter the following week to a Lovie Smith coached Bears squad before putting up 2 garbage time scores and losing in a slightly less embarrassing manner.

And being outgunned by Alex Smith.

And people want to give him a pass on that goofy Minnesota loss when his safety missed the tackle and they lost w/ 0:00 on the clock but Drew - maybe don't throw 2 picks? And the Rams PI last year was brutal but Brees was in full dink/dunk mode by then and was incapable of putting the Rams away in that game. The Saints had their foot on the Rams neck in the 1st half and got virtually nothing out of it. With the ball first, an interception (giving them the ball at the Ram 16) and a 3 and out, the Saints converted 1 of those opportunities into 6 because Brees couldn't power the football into small windows in the red zone. Up 20-10 in the 2nd half and the Saints go Punt, Punt, FG to keep the Rams alive.

And for as bad as the PI was - the Saints had the football to start OT and Brees cut their throats with that pick.

Nobody EVER says "hey wait a minute now - what about Brees in the post-season...." but Manning takes worlds of shit for it. Just seems strange to me.

It pains me to say it, but it's Brady, and to me it's not particularly close. Peyton struggled way more in big games than I'd have liked. Warner was probably the most dominant I've seen in a small stretch, but it was very short. Brees... I can't stand behind him. He benefited big time playing in a dome and outside of 1 super bowl, he's been really mediocre in the playoffs. Probably a lot of that because of the dome thing. Really hard to crown someone as GOAT is he was never an mvp.

Which leaves me with Montana and Brady. A lot of similarities. But I saw Brady dominate with reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney as his receivers. Whereas Montana typically had an obscene amount of talent.

You should work in the media. How are your SJW pandering and jumping to conclusions before getting all the facts "skills"?

Elway isn’t even in the conversation to me.

Never threw 30 TDs in a season and only threw for 4,000 yards once.

Averaged 3,200 yards, 19 TDs, and 14 interceptions per year. His career passer rating is 80. Career completion percentage is 57%. He threw for at least as many interceptions as touchdowns in 5 different seasons. He only had a 2:1 or better Touchdown-Interception ratio in 3 seasons out of 16.

As I explained previously, he didn’t really play in the “Passing League”....but compare his numbers to what Marino did during the same era.

Steve Bono.

The thing about Manning, I don't think some appreciate how bad an organization the Colts are. They had a very crappy line and a completely miserable Dee for most of his time there.

This.

As of right now the correct answer here is Aaron Rodgers

Only QB to have a career QB rating average over 100. 2nd best QB rating ever on the road of 98.
His career TD to INT ratio is over 4 to 1. That is insane.

His arm is as good as anyone in history and he can throw any arm angle, so the talent is as good as any QB ever.

I don’t care about how many rings Brady, Montana or Bradshaw has. Rodgers carried a team to a Super Bowl title with about 20 players on IR against an elite defense.

If you put Rodgers with Belichick, he’d have as many or more rings than Tom.

Montana was blowing shit up when defense was still DEFENSE

It’s Joe, until Mahomes takes his crown...

What the ****? Did any of you watch the 28 to 3 Superbowl? I thought that put an end to this discussion. Clearly its Matt Ryan.

Get Elway off this ****ing list.

Joe Montana. This isn't even a discussion and never will be. The rest of them just fall behind in a big lump.

The better discussion is who is the greatest QB to play but not be in the HOF. My vote goes to the Rodney Dangerfield of the NFL, Ken Anderson.

Since Mahomes wasn’t listed I had to vote Brady

We can delete the poll entirely and let you re-add it. We can't add a new option.

Eli Manning has more passing yards, more passing touchdowns, a higher completion percentage, a higher touchdown percentage, a lower interception percentage, and a higher career rating than John Elway. Eli has also played two fewer games than Elway did for his career.

They’ve both won 2 Super Bowls, but Eli has 2 Super Bowl MVPs. Factor in also that twice the greatest coach and defensive mind ever had 2 weeks to prepare for Eli Manning, but Eli walked away with the Lombardi and the MVP award twice.

Not saying Eli’s a better all time QB, but there isn’t a real compelling argument that Elway is that far ahead.

In a game that has changed to favor one side of the ball over another you cant name a GOAT, you can name a greatest of that era.
Current era its Brees Brady Manning,
Before that guys like Young, Montana, Marino
Then there is the group that I always consider above all others because they could just get murdered back there and the stats werent screwed by rules.
Bradshaw Dawson Staubach
Football has just had too many major changes that affect the game

You're on fire lately. Great posts

I wanted to vote for Peyton Manning, but I had to vote for Brady. =/

Alex Smith /tigger and sandy

This, honestly, is crap. The Colts defense was pretty solid alot of those years. As for talent -- BOTH Harrison AND Wayne are better than any receiver Brady ever had outside of 3 lousy years of Moss. Their OLine was revered when they had Mudd. Jeff Saturday was no slouch, and Tarik Glenn was very good. Running backs -- Edge was excellent, and Addai was above average.

Don't get me wrong -- nobody will confuse the Peyton-era Colts with the 60s Packers or 70s Steelers for talent -- but it was a different league. They weren't suffering for talent relative to the rest of the NFL.

This sums up my position on the matter.

I don't rank Brady as the best QB ever for a number of reasons:

- Only 3 MVPs in 18 seasons (last time he won the award he threw for 32 TDS.. really?)
- Above average regular season numbers but nothing great. Only once in a season threw for 40+ TDs and only once threw for more than 5000 yards.
- Average playoff numbers. In his 16 playoff appearences, 9 out of those he had an avg passer rating of below 90.0 with a total of 34 Interceptions. Sure he won 6 Superbowls but how much of that was Brady's doing? Without Belichik's genius defensive scheming they don't beat the Rams last year. You could argue but he has 4 Superbowl MVPs? Look at his underwhelming numbers in those games. He was slightly better than the opposing QB which by default tilts the award on his favor.

I would say he is the most clutch playoff QB but when you put into the equation the regular season, I just don't see it. Manning was better imo and I'm not even a fan of his. Dude ran his own offense and was a general on the field.

Can you just replace Elway with Brees? Elway was mistakenly added to the poll for some reason.

I second this this motion.

It makes me nauseous however I voted for Elway. If you want to look at pure passing statistics, then he shouldn't be anywhere at all. However, he had the ability to win games that the Broncos had no business winning. Maybe it's because I watched the Chiefs give up more leads than any other team to the Broncos.

Totally different era as well, QBs used to be football players and would take some big hits. They are so protected now.

patrick mahomes

If you have Excel, here are the top ten quarterbacks by year in the NFL, based on my own weightings of yards, TDs, interceptions, and some other measures. This is based on regular season stats.

Damn Rain, nice work

Based on my analysis, here are the guys who were the best QB in the league more than one season.

Otto Graham* - CLE 5
Benny Friedman* - CLE 4
Brett Favre* - GNB 4
Peyton Manning - IND 4
Steve Young* - SFO 4
Tom Brady - NWE 4
Arnie Herber* - GNB 3
Dan Fouts* - LAC 3
Drew Brees - NOR 3
Sammy Baugh* - WAS 3
Y.A. Tittle* - SFO 3
Cecil Isbell - GNB 2
Dan Marino* - MIA 2
Ed Danowski - NYG 2
Fran Tarkenton* - MIN 2
Frank Filchock - WAS 2
Jim Everett - LAR 2
John Brodie - SFO 2
Johnny Unitas* - IND 2
Kurt Warner* - LAR 2
Norm Van Brocklin* - LAR 2
Roger Staubach* - DAL 2
Sonny Jurgensen* - WAS 2

I get that he occasionally had late game magic....bbbuuuuuutttt maybe if he put up better passing numbers throughout the game, he wouldn’t have needed the late game magic. He would’ve won those games more comfortably.

All time great? Sure. I just can’t get past such pedestrian passing statistics in the GOAT conversation.

Brady

Joe Montana, and its not even close. 4-0 in superbowl appearances when it was a ****ing mans game.

None of this built for TV offense bullshit where the qb might as well have secret service agents in the pocket with him. Defenders cant touch receivers, much less lay down intimidating hits over the middle. Might as well be flag football now.

God Id love to see Brady play ONE game in that era. Longest piss trail back home to mommy and daddy you ever seen.

Chris Jones slapped his shoulderpad lightly and it was a 15 yard personal foul. The little bitch didnt even get moved off his spot much less go down and its a 15 yard penalty. Anytime hes touched, Brady is off crying to an official about it. Biggest **** strapping up a helmet today.

Brady's longevity and "greatness" have been manufactured by the pussification of the NFL.

Joe's still the ****ing man, period.

Here are the number of seasons that every quarterback was a top-three quarterback. I like this analysis because it somewhat controls for eras. More seasons mean that there were more times that the quarterback put his team in a good position for a championship.

I'll highlight a few interesting ones in bold font.

Peyton Manning - IND 12
Otto Graham* - CLE 8
Brett Favre* - GNB 7
Dan Marino* - MIA 7
Drew Brees - NOR 7
Johnny Unitas* - IND 7
Sammy Baugh* - WAS 7
Fran Tarkenton* - MIN 6
Joe Montana* - SFO 6
Sid Luckman* - CHI 6
Tom Brady - NWE 6
Aaron Rodgers - GNB 5
Arnie Herber* - GNB 5
Bobby Layne* - DET 5
Norm Van Brocklin* - LAR 5
Sonny Jurgensen* - PHI 5
Y.A. Tittle* - SFO 5
Benny Friedman* - CLE 4
Dan Fouts* - LAC 4
Ken Anderson - CIN 4
Len Dawson* - KAN 4
Roger Staubach* - DAL 4
Steve Young* - SFO 4
Drew Bledsoe - NWE 3
Ed Danowski - NYG 3
John Hadl - LAC 3
Ken Stabler* - OAK 3
Kurt Warner* - LAR 3
Philip Rivers - LAC 3
Red Dunn - GNB 3
Tobin Rote - GNB 3
Warren Moon* - TEN 3
Wild Bill Kelly - EXT 3
Ace Parker* - EXT 2
Bert Jones - IND 2
Bob Griese* - MIA 2
Bob Monnett - GNB 2
Bob Waterfield* - LAR 2
Boomer Esiason - CIN 2
Carson Palmer - CIN 2
Cecil Isbell - GNB 2
Curly Lambeau* - GNB 2
Daryle Lamonica - OAK 2
Daunte Culpepper - MIN 2
Ernie Nevers* - ARI 2
Frank Filchock - WAS 2
Frankie Albert - SFO 2
Glenn Presnell - EXT 2
Hust Stockton - EXT 2
Jack McBride - NYG 2
Jim Everett - LAR 2
Joe Namath* - NYJ 2
John Brodie - SFO 2
Ken O'Brien - NYJ 2
Matt Ryan - ATL 2
Milt Plum - CLE 2
Neil Lomax - ARI 2
Norm Snead - NYG 2
Randall Cunningham - PHI 2
Rich Gannon - OAK 2
Sonny Winters - EXT 2
Steve Bartkowski - ATL 2
Troy Aikman* - DAL 2

I'll put the one-timers like Elway and Brian Sipe and Elmer Oliphant in a spoiler since there are a ton of them.

Rainman, what stat are you using to determine best QB?

You do realize Brady has been playing since 2002, right? Early in his career he was winning games in similar ways that Montana did. I'm a huge fan of Montana. But the idea that Brady was built by his era or by bellichick is nonsense.

You said "other than Patrick Mahomes," but I decided to disobey the rules similar to Tom Brady wiping his phone before handing it over in the NFL in the deflategate investigation.

I chose "other," and that "other" is a vote for Patrick Mahomes.

I built an algorithm a while back because I knew we would need it at some point. I weighted every QB as follows:

Sum of their rank among QBs that year on yards per attempt, yards, completion percentage, TD passes, interception percentage, and (with a 1/10th weighting) starts. Starts is just because there were no other stats available in the early days of the NFL. I then added the square root of the two smallest (best) ranks and subtracted the square root of the two largest (worst) ranks in those measures, because sometimes an outlier would throw a quarterback's score way off.

There are a lot of factors, but I don't think you could go wrong with Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers or Steve Young.

2010 postseason-2011 regular season Aaron Rodgers is the peak. He's probably got the best arm talent I've ever seen.

Guys like Brady, Montana and Otto Graham have the best resumes.

Marino and Manning just ****ing got it done. For multiple unlucky reasons they just weren't able to rally through to get all the team accolades that are so important to gauging QBs.

Steve Young and Kurt Warner didn't do it for long enough.

Brees is a stat whore douche. Guy doesn't even win his division more often than not.

Idk why people even mention Elway or Favre in the GOAT conversation..

Brady has the rings and probably nobody will ever have as many as he has. At least I doubt that.

Back in the no skirts allowed era, Brady would be carrying Joes jockstrap around for him

YA Tittle

Yep. Those old Colts teams were pretty loaded. Brady/Belichick>Manning/Dungy.

Brady was healthier relative to his peers than Montana

Also, why do so many fans here worship Elway? He was a very good QB but not a GOAT. He was no better than Favre. And Favre won 3 straight MVPs. It took a strike-shortened season for Elway to even win 1. He had the most expensive team in the AFC in the pre-salary cap 1980s, and “dragged” good defensive teams to SBs by beating the Cleveland Browns—notorious chokers (those games gave them their reputation). Real good player, but he enjoyed a really good situation in Denver (until the early 90s when his feud with Reeves boiled over)

Brady's had offensive talent too.

Moss is one of the best receivers of all all time, probably the best deep threat WR. Wes Welker was possibly the best slot receiver of all time. Gronk was one of the best TEs of all time. Hernandez, Edelman, Gordon, etc. He's had people to throw to. And that's not to mention his OL and stable of RBs.

Poll should be split into two sections: before the rules eliminated defense in the NFL and after.

Prefers to carry his son's while making out with him...

Joe and Tom owned those eras. That makes it easy.

Indeed. He may look 1/2 skeletor and 1/2 pedophile, but Tongue Ticklin' Tom was a God damned good QB.

No matter the sport..getting the rings and being clutch account for a nice chunk of the GOAT equation which is why
Tom>Peyton
Jordan>Everyone else

That’s definitely one argument. Among several. Problem with having been here this long is topics like this have been done so many times it’s like a rerun.

Might be interesting to pull up all of the other threads on this same topic to see if anyone’s opinions have evolved.

Looking at that list I want to say Montana or Marino.

Notice how the greatest QBs names start with "M"?

Marino, Montana, Mahomes, Manning.

Brady is the best system QB of all time. Any of the "M"s would win 6 or more rings with belichick.

1. Brady
2. Montana (edge to Brady because of the prolonged success, titles, and being the best QB of the “Passing League” NFL)
3. Peyton
4. Marino (no titles, but ridiculous numbers in the Pre-Passing League era)
5. Aaron Rodgers (at his best, he was the best I’ve ever seen)

I fully expect Mahomes to crack this list someday though.

We think alike. Folks compare Mahomes to favre but he reminds me more of Marino. We all know it's belichick winning those rings. Hell just look at last year's AFC championship game. Mahomes would have beat Brady there if not for belichick.

Completely agree.

Thank You! I say this all the time. Steve Young is so damn underrated. I suppose it is because he started with the bucs then went over to San Francisco and was overshadowed by Montana, but he was insane good at the peak of his career.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

5 super bowl appearances is pretty damn impressive

There were twelve QB seasons in the 90s that featured a 100+ passer rating. Steve Young was responsible for six of those.

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I voted for Montana, but PMII is the future