One of my colleagues from college married a former student of his
 

I found this out via facebook.

I went to grad school with this guy. We were acquaintances, but never really friends. Ideal facebook friends, in other words.

He got a job teaching at a college. In his first year he would have taught her when she was a freshman. She's two years removed from being his student. He's 12 years older than her.

There's nothing immoral about this, but am I wrong in thinking this is just a taaaaad bit creepy?

I mean, if they were doing this the right/moral way, they wouldn't have had any romantic involvement with each other whatsoever two years ago. Meaning they had two years to decide they wanted to elevate the mentor/mentoree relationship to something intimate. Then they had to get engaged and married. All in two years. That's it. Two years.

Whatevs. They're happy, I guess. Just... oh who am I kidding. That's gross. That's ****ing gross. It's weird and disgusting and I don't like it. Blech.

EDIT: Not that this matters since the conversation is dying down now, but to be clear my issue with the relationship is NOT about age. She could go marry a 100-year old incontinent man. I don't give a shit. My issue is that there was very likely stuff going on between them while he was still her professor. No, it's not a big deal to me. It's just off-putting and sets off the alarm.

The next person who posts, "there's nothing wrong with that my dad was 34 years older than my mom..." gets a big fat **** you.

More power to him unless she's a gold digging bitch of a home wrecker.

Give it 10 years before you decide how you feel about it. A childhood/HS friend of mine became a teacher and ended up marrying one of his students. He wasn't 12 years older but he was at least 24 or 25 and she was 18. They did everything right in terms of not dating until she was of age and out of his classroom. They've been married 15 years now and have a couple of kids. So while it was a tad strange at first, it worked for them.

They met when they were both adults.

I don't see a problem.

There are ethical issues involved with dating students when you're a professor. The temptation for preferential treatment is too great to just let it slide or go by the honor code. Most deans will agree with that.

pics aren't loading

I got confused.

I don't see the ethical problem here if she isn't his student. There is no temptation for preferential treatment if she isn't in his classroom.

That's pretty gross, in general. Not as a rule, or anything, but it's kind of a red flag for creepdom.

(Sometimes I kind of worry that one of my favorite professors was skeeving on myself and a few other classmates, and he's got a younger-by-a-decade wife, but I don't really want to try to reconcile that with how rad he was otherwise.)

Why do you care what other people do when you don't even know them very well, it has nothing to do with you, and it doesn't hurt you in any way?

And if you don't like it, why would you waste time digging around to find it in the first place, and then continue on with it talking shit on the person in a 3rd party forum?

Drama queen..??

I would think that one in your position would be less inclined to judge others based on their relationships or sexual matters. It's not like he was chasing some high school skirt nor has he been her teacher for 2 years.

It seems very unlikely to me that these two wouldn't have been porking on the side when she was his student. In those two years she was doing her grad work (in the same field) at Texas-Austin while he was back teaching in Iowa. Meaning in order to foster a relationship in between breaks for the both of them, they must have decided to be romantically involved before then. Because part of those two years also involved planning out a wedding.

Okay, now I sound like the creep for being nosy in the details, but I'm not the only one from my graduating class who knew this guy who thinks this is a little funky. A few of my old friends even called me up to say "WTF?"

I'm not saying someone's a bad person for dating younger people, I'm just saying it's super tenuous territory if approached with anything but the utmost caution to avoid ****ed up power dynamics and coercion.

And the "you're a tranny so you have to excuse people who take advantage of others or leverage their power to creep on people under their authority" line is serious horseshit. Having a body that made me want to die has nothing to do with "sexual matters" in the first place, though it certainly complicated the shit out of those.

LMAO I was waiting for this post to show up

So you get more pleasure out of that, too? Interesting hobby you've got there.

You said that is pretty gross... I'm sure people have felt the same way about you and your situation. That said, I'm sure people judged you based on who you are and how you felt. That is what I am comparing... not the fact that you had your op and all that. This guy has affection for a lady and she obviously returned those feelings. Who are you to judge that?

These two people care for one another and made a commitment to build a relationship. Why should they ignore how the feel because society tells them that its kind of icky?

Don't find anything wrong with it, hell, I saw grad student/TA's banging students in their discussions when I was in college. Not like it was a high school teacher and then a high school student, that would be creepy

Lots of assumptions here. You don't know they were "porking". Also, your assumption that they had to have decided to become romantically involved before then is also a big assumption. You see, there are communication devices in place that let you correspond both via text and/or video over long distances. Technology is amazing meng... makes long distance relationships no so long distance.

I met my wife to be, dated, and married her all under a year and a half. Granted, it wasn't online but the point stands. There is nothing inappropriate about their relationship as long as he didn't fall in love with her while she was blowing him for an A.

This little event has irrevocably changed my life. When biographers tell my life story, they will point to the time my acquaintance from grad school got married to a former student of his as the moment shit changed in my life.

I mean, I posted a thread on Chiefs Planet about it? Eegads! I am so distraught! Don't even try to counsel me! This means soooooo much! I mean, for ****'s sake, I posted a thread on CHIEFS PLANET about this! Ohh the huge manatee!!!!

"Ignorant dumb****s may think a thing you did was gross, ergo you can never call anything gross ever." - Noted philosopher pr_capone

They... shouldn't? =o

If they are happy, that rules. All I was saying is that it's a super awkward situation and it sucks to doubt the motivations of someone you otherwise like a lot. I'm not proposing that we adopt a legal age range for marriage or shun anyone in such a relationship.

Damn, never mind. You get to be the only one that flaunts societal "norms" and damn what others think. You go... girl?

I used to eat my own boogers when I was 2. Can I call this gross?

http://i.imgur.com/2ZuRq.gif

eat my poop

Nah... booger eating is perfectly normal and some docs think it is even healthy.

http://www.damninteresting.com/you-c...ick-your-nose/

Anyway, as much as DRU is purporting this to mean I picketed their wedding Fred Phelps-style, that's not true at all. I appreciate people like Dave, Phobia, and pr_capone who are politely disagreeing with my interpretation. I just happen to still think it's a little bit sketchy. Whatever.

No thanks. If I am going to eat poop... I prefer it come from less angry and judgmental people who are looking for the slightest provocation. Not as bitter and typically nothing gets stuck in the teeth.

It's just interesting to me how so many people talk shit on so many other people. I hear it all the time in every day life. Get a group of people together and you hear a lot of shit talking about other people.

This is just the online equivalent of it. Like sitting in a room watching all the people, and turning to your buddy to talk shit on them when you don't even know anything about anything about them.

Why exactly are you or is what you're doing any better than anybody else? Why waste your time having that conversation as oppose to some positive conversation?

gosh, why would i snidely respond to yet another in the endless stream of "ur a tranny" posts from the luminaries at Chiefs Planet Dot Com

like, i seriously edited my posts to be less seemingly-abrasive because i didn't want anyone to get the idea that i thought it was this HORRIBLE sinful no-good thing that is worse than anything ever, even before i saw your responses. but no. it is not enough to keep you from being patronizing and dense as all hell.

Pretty sure that was Spinoza, actually. Pr_capone's nothing but a big phony!

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/zSTEqHxh3fI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'm definitely giving you shit, but you're kind of doing it again. If you knew me at all you'd know that while I can definitely be sarcastic, I generally do it with a smile on my face and I'd gladly shake your hand and buy you beer if we ever met simply for being a Chiefs fan.

Don't jump to so many conclusions.

"It's...a jump to conclusions mat!"

You know me... I'm nothing if not an argumentative trouble maker. Without knowing all the facts or even who they are, I would rather give them the benefit of the doubt seeing as how they are getting/got married as a result.

Typically I am a cynical person and everyone is out for themselves but I like to allow myself to believe that there are really people out there that truly care for one another and damn what society tells them. My wife is 7 years older than me and EVERYONE she knew tried to talk her out of it because of how it would look.

I'm glad she didn't listen. I hope your friend and his girl find the same kind of love from a similar circumstance.

you ****ing tard... you missed my intent and jumped straight into a tirade because you felt I was attacking you in some way. We could have conversed and probably came to an accord but you just wanted to bear your claws. Have at it then... I'm imperfect. My history is pretty laid out across the board. Pick something and poke at it until you feel we are even... in fact, take a little more so that you can feel good about yourself.

Either you can try and have a civilized discourse and possinly try to understand what I meant or you can throw a little tantrum and drama queen the hell out of this tread.

Okay, I this is a personal subject for you and it explains your responses. I am pretty sure that neither myself nor SNR expressed the belief that an age difference, in itself, is grounds for not pursuing a relationship. This particular discussion stems from concerns about the unique, difficult issues relating to the power and influence someone in a relationship with a student or even former student could face.

That is all. It is not being played up as a monstrous thing, it's just a tricky situation that only partially pertains to the ages of those involved.

And no, I didn't jump on you because of your intent, I jumped on you because I can't make four posts on this ****ing forum without someone helpfully bringing up an incredibly personal, painful facet of my life that I shared in a time of desperation seven years ago. I AM AWARE. MY VIEWPOINT IS INFORMED BY MY EXPERIENCES AS A TRANS PERSON. Thank you ever so much for your edifying contribution.

I so horny

Why are we so hard on Matt Cassel? He sucks, but that's no reason for us to go on the internet behind his back and make jokes about him having sex with the general manager or being a locker room klutz or getting AIDS and dying in a fire.

I clearly posted this thread trying to sample the board if I would do well to trust my emotions on this one. I didn't do it as a lame gossip story.

There are several posters here who also work in academia like myself who will have some interesting things to say no doubt. Already a good conversation has been getting on a roll since I started the thread. That was my intention.

pics or GTFO

he's ok looking. but I wouldn't **** him.

you made it an age thing when you brought that one of upi favorite professors was skeeving on you and a few other classmates, and he's got a younger-by-a-decade wifeup the younger by the decade bit in your first post in here. This is what I was making all my comments in regards to.

Then then showed surprised at your reaction about the situation in OP. I honestly thought you would have been more sympathetic seeing that they are geting married and she hasn't been his student in 2 years. I honestly thought you would withhold judgement and see it for wat it looks like on its face. 2 peeps fell in love, tehy waited until she was no longer a student... then game on.

I was wrong in how I thought you would see this situation.

a) The combination of his behavior around female students (not that it was outright bad, just that I kind of got the vibe he was maybe not solely platonically interested) and the fact that his wife was slightly older than me was enough to give me pause. Note that I also stated that I did my best to disregard these thoughts that were in the back of my mind because I enjoyed his classes a lot and he seemed like a swell guy and he never crossed any lines of professionalism, from what I could tell.

b) AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

My trans history is not a bargaining chip to be used in an argument, is not a tool for you to use to stifle my expression of completely ****ing ordinary human emotions, and is not something you can point to to try to predict my reaction to wholly unrelated topics.

It's not something I actively use to contextualize every single issue I consider, and it sure as **** isn't something to be treated as my only defining characteristic. Which is what you are doing when you casually toss it around when I'm discussing complicated social interactions or terrible white safeties or the World Badminton Cup.

There's no arguing that point as I've clearly jumped into the conversation as well. My general curiosity, though, is why social interactions are more about negative things (whether large or small) than positive things.

I can appreciate good topics and starting threads to get a general consensus about something. But why at the expense of somebody else? Why not post something interesting about yourself for us all to talk about and say whether or not it should be accepted or considered taboo?

Or on a similar note, why do all the comments on YouTube and the like turn into negativity no matter what type of video you're looking at? It's always been very interesting to me that the natural pull of society, across the world, is negativity and shit talking with each other, about each other to other people, etc.

It's usually just a few people, too, but they are powerful and can suck in the people around them. Would be interesting to see those same people turn that power around and use it in some other fashion.

So again, I don't mean any disrespect towards you directly, but my questions still stand. Why worry about it and waste your time, emotion, or energy with it? What draws you to that sort of thing over any of the other million things you could be doing with your time, online or offline? Things that actually do interest you and don't just make you feel icky.

When I see or hear things I genuinely don't like or care nothing about I typically just move on and I don't give it a second thought. In this case I almost did that except that it sparked these sociological questions in my mind, which does intrigue me.

Anyway, sorry for the tirade. I guess maybe I'm the drama queen tonight.

if you truly respected your collegue, you'd post pics.
bastard.

He said he was looking for input on whether or not he should worry about a co-worker's potentially questionable ethical decisions.

I don't disagree that people are painfully negative and it's perplexing and frustrating, but I really don't think that's how SNR was approaching things.

Itbwas never my attempt nor desire to stifle you in any way but to engage in conversation based on my thought process on the subject. Then when you went all icon I was surprised because that is not how I expected you to react because you had been in a situation yourself where you were going against societies expectation of you. I thought you might show empathy and understanding. Instead you showed me quite the opposite and you are more than welcome to that oppinion. My gay and tranny friends, I don't think, would have reacted in the same way as you did so I definitely misjudged your reaction.

At least to me, there seems to be very little to be concerned about if they are in love and getting married. Life is hard enough, married life doubly so, without the world shitting on you. I'm 2 ambient in and steadily plowing coherence so I'm done here.

I hope these twobqre happy with one another and do the fairy tale happy ever after ending. **** the naysayers. As long as she isn't his student anymore and they are both willing... More power to them.

You know how upsetting and intensely personal this subject is for you? Now imagine it's the most painful thing you've ever dealt with in your entire life, and then imagine that people brought it up all the time, completely at random, simply because they remembered that about you -- and that they frequently brought it up to try to score points when they disagreed with you. That is why my responses to you have been so clipped and annoyed.

Also?

Acting like people who face open bigotry on a regular basis have an obligation to act in a certain way as a result of having faced said bigotry is unbelievably absurd.

I 100% agree. wait...wut?

One of my best friends in grade school parents met while he was the college teacher and she was his student. Ironic thing....my former mother in law was class mates with her at that time.

This

Meh. No big deal really. Two adults when they met, and two adults when they wed. This isn't like he was bird-dogging this chick when she was underage, and just biding his time.

Really...who gives a **** ?

It really make you seem super creepy that this bothers you. Decades ago men would marry 13 year olds which was creepy, but you would not be here if that didn't happen back then. This is a good way to Look at it. If they are grown and are not hurting anyone it is their busy stop worrying about other grown people's business. You seem like the creepy one when u do.

There is a lot of typing being done in this thread.
Posted via Mobile Device

It's not the age that concerns me. How many times has that been said now?

I'm seeing a lot of words I dont think CPers use in real life!

I think it's more creepy that you're Facebook stalking an acquaintance and the "creepy" factor is actually jealousy..

Just one more reason I say **** you, to Facebook.

Meh. I'm eight years older than my wife.

Teachers shouldn't date their students, regardless of the ages of the participants, for obvious reasons. Any one who thinks otherwise is just wrong from an ethical perspective.

Basically the relationship needs to stay professional until the faculty member no longer has the ability to influence, either positively or negatively, the student's academic career. After the student finishes the class, graduates from the department, and the power imbalance and temptations to show favoritism are completely removed, ethical concerns are less but could persist in certain cases. For example, using ones influence with peers to assist the career of the protege is out of bounds and the ability to do so could persist for years.

Obviously student-faculty relationships don't always happen this way. Most administrators are hesitant to sanction a faculty member unless it is a sexual harassment situation, although I am aware of cases of consensual faculty-student relationships where sanctions were given.

In a case where the couple ends up in long term committed relationship after the student-faculty relationship has ended, I am personally willing to consider the reprehensibly and ethically bankrupt indiscretions of the past to be in the category of "let bygones be bygones".

Heh, I guess I need to be careful when I post in one of the car help threads about blowing a tranny in my pickup, huh?

I agree, in principle, with this policy. However, I regard human love as an extremely complex phenomenon, and one that transcends bullshit "policies" and "ethical perspectives" and what not. Good on them that they were able to wait two years after the teacher-student thing. Shame on OP and the rest of you for judging them.

Intelligent people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people.

Their love is not of your concern.

Wisdom found here.

Oh ****ing WHAAAAAH. You aren't obligated to act any specific way... you just didn't act the way I anticipated you would based on your experience based on my how the people I know in similar shoes would have acted.

I wasn't trying to score points against you... I was trying to have a conversation, not win an argument. I can understand why you are defensive about it, or maybe I don't... who the **** knows with you. Not everyone you talk to on here is trying to beat you over the head with it. Tell you what though... you "win". This argument that this shit turned into is all yours. You can treasure it as the day you beat down the guy that thought you just might be be more understanding of others doing nothing wrong yet doing something socially unacceptable because it made them happy and complete because of your personal experience. :thumb:

/10 internets for you

Ohreally?

You just reminded me of a certain biology TA from back in the day... Her morals were more than just a little warped!



... wonder what she's doing now? :bolt:---> (facebook/google)

Ok, lets talk about ideas. Tell me how you would feel in each of the following circumstances:

1. You are in a class. It is a tough one and the instructor is tough. You have to do well in the class to compete for one of a few limited slots in the program. You are on the borderline into making it into the program. One of your fellow students, who is below you academically, is screwing the professor.

2. You are a dean. You answer to the chancellor, to the public, to all the faculty and to the student body. One of the faculty members you supervise seems to be having a relationship with one of the students. This faculty member has a past history of making advances toward students. Some of them have ended badly and there have been rumors that some of the students were coerced into the relationship. These past rumors were related to incidents under a former dean. You have no idea about whether the relationship is completely consensual or not. If it is not, and you have no way of knowing, the school could be open to a sexual harassment lawsuit.

3. You are in a class and you need to do well in it. You are in a good relationship, Your professor (of the sex you are attracted to) makes a move on you. You aren't really attracted to this person and besides you are already in a relationship. This professor is persistent in their advances. You can't go to the department head or the dean because they all treat their students the same way.

There are darn good reasons for ethics. They aren't bullshit policies that someone pulled out of their ass just to beat down other people.

1. My acquaintance sent me a wedding invitation. I'm not "stalking" shit.

2. I'm married.

3. Get AIDS.

yet none of your examples are relevant to this situation

There is nothing in this entire thread that states that they had any sort of relationship while she was his student... much less one of a sexual nature.

There is nothing in this entire thread that states that this guy has a history of making advances, failed or successful, on his students. Nor is there anything that states that these "relationships" ended badly or that the students were coerced into anything. In fact, their getting married 2 years after she was his student points to the opposite.

If you happen to attend a school full of creepy student fondling janitors, teachers, department heads, deans, and board of directors... you probably need to file a lawsuit and find another school to go to.

There are. But when she was no longer his adult college student, his ethical responsibility to not have a relationship with her ended.

My first post in this thread was #58. You'll notice that I was talking about the ethics of such situations in general and didn't mention anything about the specifics of SNR's case. Spatula fired back about bullshit ethical policies. I was demonstrating that policies are in place for a reason.

I still have not made a single comment about the specifics of SNR's acquaintance. So the fact that none of my examples pertains to that situation is irrelevant to the context of my slice of this tread.

Now, specific to SNR's case, if they were having a sexual relationship while there was also a student-teacher relationship, it was unethical.

:thumb:

Agreed

I see nothing wrong with it. She's his FORMER student.

As far as the time frame, a good friend only knew his wife for 5 months before they got married. They've been married 11 years now.

For what it's worth, my dad was 12 years older than my mom, and they were married 30+ years.

Good for them.

I've already responded to the former student/professor thing but now it seems there's another elephant in the room.

I understand that UP just wants to feel and be treated like a normal person. Unfortunately, transgender operations aren't something that is normal for the average person. We don't have any way of processing it. So no matter how many times we're told how to be sensitive and respectful, it's impossible to phrase anything at all in a way that isn't deemed offensive to a transgendered person. I feel like the best policy is to probably just avoid any aspect of that discusssion. If we had a rape survivor on the planet, we wouldn't say - "you probably feel this way about abc because of that brutal rape you survived in '97". Ultra Peanut just wants to interact here without the crap about her former peanus. I don't blame her for that. I'm extremely proud that I can even naturally call her "her". That took years for me to rationalize. I'm not trying to be a dick about any of this - just explain in 10,000 words or less that I think it's probably a topic that should just be avoided. Finally, I'm not taking any mod action or making any rules about it. This is just my random observation from where I sit as a user of this site. Please correct me if I'm wrong about something, Ms. Peanut.

Did the **** in the pool?

I didn't realize Ultra was a chick. I learn something new every day.

And forget what you learned yesterday, every day.

So, is she hot? That's really all that matters. If she's hot it's OK. If she's not hot, then it's disgusting and immoral.

THE END

Lucky bastard if she is hot and sorry sap if she is frumpy and wants to find a sugar daddy

It's not that hard to avoid saying shit that offends and upsets people whose life experiences are vastly different than your own. You know what this mystical secret is? Actually listening when someone tries to explain why the thing you said was ignorant and/or hurtful to them, intentional or no, and making an effort to avoid doing that in the future. I regularly interact with lots of cis people who somehow manage to not upset me or even remark upon my trans history without me initiating discussion about it. They're not superhuman, they just care enough to educate themselves and not subject me to exhausting, frustrating, endlessly repetitive conversations that I've had hundreds of times before.

This is more or less the point I was trying to make, yes. Sometimes I feel up to talking about trans issues, but usually it's something I'm not thinking about at all until the discussion is foisted upon me completely at random by someone who has less than zero idea what they're talking about.

At this point I'm fine with sticking mostly to the soccer and wrestling threads, where the regular posters mostly get it and there's less chance of shit like the above happening. I was just popping in to share a glib anecdote about the awkwardness of that teacher-student situation while basking in the high of one of the best soccer matches I've ever watched, and I ended up spending a couple of hours and god knows how many words trying to explain to capone why his invocation of my trans status as some kind of bludgeon was unbelievably unwelcome to absolutely no avail. If I could do it all over again, I wouldn't have posted at all and would have spent that time banging my head against a wall. I'd have had less of a headache.

LMAO