Kennedy :: History Channel Computer Simulation of Zapruder Film
 

It is gonna be on from 7-9 [CST] then a show about Joseph Kennedy from 9-11 and from 11-1a they will repeat.

Im sure some of you will dig this. I dont know what it proves...single bullet wise, but It should be entertaining.

tivo it for later.

Thanks for the heads-up (pun intended). Gonna PVR it.

There's no doubt in my mind that the fatal head shot came from the front.

Saw a special on ABC a couple of years ago. Convinced me of the one gunman theory whereas I was before in the conspiracy theory mindset.

It showed how the single bullet wasn't really magic. The govenor was sitting to the left and lower than the president. Made a straight line right back to the school book depository.

No way that cheesed*ck got off, what was it, four aimed shots in seven seconds.

I recall on 60 minutes or a show similar to it, they set up a simulated moving model target scenarilal and had a sharp shooter do it in 6-8 seconds and repeated acurately twice in 5 tries. Then when they added in the adrenilin factor, it easily convinced me that one gunman could have pulled it off.
:hmmm:

Nope, no way he got off four shots. Oswald's marine marksmanship scores would show him to be a barely acceptable shot. Taking essentially the same tests with a far superior weapon (M-16), I scored like 8 points higher. I've seen that window, and seen the mock-up, and I doubt I could've hit it even WITHOUT having a bolt-action single shot rifle.

Chris

yeah, i thought i read somewhere that marine and/or fbi sharpshooters tried but couldn't fire that weapon (or one like it) that many times in seven seconds (or whatever it was), let alone aim and hit a moving target while doing it...

What adrenaline factor? They had him shoot at a President of the United States?

he was a certified marksman by the marines, Showed his score cards. 50/50 at the distance of the shot.

Brought in a person who had never fired a weapon and they were able to get the shots off in the time allowed after 30 mintues of training.

And, anyone that looks at the fatal headshot (where his head moves back and left) and concludes that that shot came from the front needs a chat with Newton.

Sure. Got them off. How many hits on a moving target?

Guys as I said I was firmly in the conspiracy thinking camp. You need to see it for yourselfs. It was very convincing. They had a physical reason the head snapped back.

It was refering to the adrenaline factor of Oswald and time, he would have been maxed out.

With the added help of computer generation, I'm sure we'll find out it was really a Haliburton conspiracy.

If an automatic rifle would have been used, there wouldn't have been any question. Oswald was part of a political conspiracy and whoever they were would not have used him if he couldnt prove that he could pull it off.

I had always been taught that Kennedy's assassination was a conspiracy. Having watched the program this evening, I have to say, I'm not as convinced anymore.

I've heard the explanations. All of them violate Newton's Third.

If the fatal head shot was from the back, his would have traveled forward FIRST, then BACK. It did not.

Looking foward to viewing it.

Not if he was in a plane accelerating to take off.


Which, of course, would then make that the most dangerous part of the flight.

Okay If you watched this show tonight and you still think it was a conspiracy prove it scientifically. Where's your facts? I think they have proven with science and new technology beyond a shadow of doubt that it really was one man that assisinated Kennedy. Done deal. Issue resolved.

ROFL

It's all relative, dude.

So I was right. It was Cheney.

The conspiraist's are awful quiet. I'm telling you that show on the history channel has pretty powerful scientific evidence and computer simulations to prove the one man theory. It will convert alot of the conspiracy crowd.

I wish I had seen it. It sounds cool.

I call bullshit. The issue is no more resolved than it was 40 years ago.

It's very easy to prove that these guys are full of it as the neck wound in Kennedy was an entrance wound, not an exit wound.

Throat Wound

Show me the detailed calculations that they used to recreate the simulation and we can then discuss how scientifically powerful that computer sequence really is. Don't be so gullible.......

Did you watch the show?

Do you disagree that a straight line is a straight line?

Yes I watched the show and the last time I heard, a straight line was indeed a straight line, but can you honestly tell me that you could accurately determine the path of a single bullet from a grainy film? This study has been done over time with different outcomes each time depending on who was doing the calculations. The reality is that we really don't know how it all happened, but to assume one bullet when there was clearly 3 different bullets based on other evidence is a little much. Nice computer graphics tho.....that part was impressive. :thumb:

The single bullet that hit the Gov'ner and Kennedy seem feasible enough. However, what I am not completely buying in the bullet he took in the face. Im not buying those "physics"... I firmly still believe that he got busted in the face from the front right somewhere.... but definately a high powered shot could have owned both of them, also they both reacted at the same time meaning more than likely they did get hit at about the same time.

i just watched a documentery, i am convienced jfk's brain was implanted in a blackman

who cares about jfk anyway, who shot jr?

when i was 8 or 9 i was obsessed with the jfk killing. I think it was because it was the first truely gruesome thing i ever saw. My conclusion is that there was only one gunman. IF WE CAN ONLY FIND THE GUY PHOTOGRAPHING ON THE OTHER SIDE! btw i was the umbrella man

3 bullets in 7.4 seconds over at the longest 88 yards. (Oswald has a 50 out 50 score when he got his Marine markmanship medal at a range of 100 years.)

A perfect straight line from the school book repository thru the president to Connley's wrist. (No magic bullet needed.)

The show is starting again in 9 minutes.

Well, I'm disappointed.

Their "explanation" of why Kennedy's head snapped back and to the left was pathetic.

I've never heard a good explanation of why it did, and I still haven't.

The "magic bullet" is immaterial to me; always has been.

Explain how a head shot from behind makes Kennedy's head go backwards, and I'm convinced.

Actually I've heard that there was a guinman in the sewer system that provided the final shot which explins his head going up and then to the back.

I can't remember if I've read it somewhere or saw it on a special or something but I'm pretty sure I've read it somewhere.

There's a a sewer right within a couple of feet where Kennedy was shot.

Guys I've worked in ER and Trauma for 10 years. Even I can tell an exit wound from a entrance wound. Its not that hard.

Again, immaterial. Explain how someone shot from the back travels backwards.

How can you say that physical evidence is immaterial? Don't you watch CSI?

regardless of the JFK assassination... the Kennedy family went through some shit.

The show on right after this one I started the thread about... was called "the Kennedy Curse"

Joseph Kennedy and his wife had like 8 kids.

Joseph Jr was the pride and joy, went to Harvard, and got blown up in a plane with 10 tons of bombs on board. He was gonna use the plane as the planes were used in 9-11 and run plane into in important German building, and eject as last minute... he didnt make it.

Jospeph was the one targeted to become president... Then Jack mentioned that the pecking order had somehow been changed, which meant he would have to take the road to politics, which he didnt really care to do...

Well JFK's older sister Kik... died in a plane crash with her fiance... and his other older sister, Mary? had a Forrest Gump like IQ, so her father, had a doctor try a new procedure that was supposed to help her... called a LOBOTOMY... obviously, he was then a vegetable... 3 kids dead... Joe still alive. He soon has a stroke that disables his communication abilities...

JFK and RFK are assassinated... Ed Kennedy has a plane crash that kills everyone but HIM... he is disabled for 5 months... then he had the wreck off that bridge.

JFK jr... had a plane wreck also... what a fuggen string of shittiness.

Let's not forget the Kennedy that died skiing and hit a tree.

And to top it all, they have to call Arnold Shwartenegger their relation.

Horrible.

Wasn't that Bobby's son?

Don't forget Jackie O died of cancer at a relatively young age (in her early 60's I believe)

I'm saying the physical evidence you mention is immaterial in explaining why Kennedy's head moved sharply left and backwards after being shot from behind.

Doesnt' a good portion of his face get ripped off from that second shot?

If so, wouldn't that indicate exit wound rather than entry?

I will admit, if that second shot did come from behind, it's quite perplexing why his head didn't snap forward. I didn't hear the explanation on the show.

Actually, they did find this guy that was taking pictures from the knoll, something about he was in some branch of the military,(can't remember which) and was to leave the next day for Alaska IRRC. He had quite an interesting story to tell about the events leading up to and immediately following the incident. FWIW

Correct. He'd just gone through basic. He swore that a round went over his right shoulder, IIRC.

Yes.

However, take a look at the way, for lack of a better word, the pieces of his head travel after impact.

They don't travel forward.

Yeah, IRRC, they had a picture, I'm guessing from the Zapruder film (but not sure) and they enhanced it.

Showed some guy wearing a cops uniform firing a rifle and the muzzle blast was going over one of his shoulders.I watched this on the History Channel about 4-5 years ago.

I've also heard about the guy in the sewer drain. He would have been like 30 ft. away and down and to the left of the president,full frontal shot....but I don't really know about this.

Yes, that's right. Jackie went back onto the trunk of the limo to retrieve a piece of Kennedy's brain.

I never quite understood that. Seriously. You have two occupants in your car that have been shot and what do you do? You make yourself an even easier target by crawling out into the open.

I would think I would crouch down between the seats and give me some sort of cover from the gunfire. Instinctively, this is what people do in danger- that's why I never understood how she could just crawl out of the car and make herself a much easier target herself.

And don't tell me she knew the President had been shot and that she knew she wasn't a target- all rationale goes out the window in 6 seconds when 3 ta 4 bullets are flying into your open vehicle.

I think you answered your own question. It was fast and she didn't know what was going on. All she knows is a piece of her husband is on the back of the car. All logic for her safety and what's going on are out the window and goes to pick up the chunk of Jack's head.

That's my interpretation anyway.

Here's something I've never understood----

Why has the government sealed this case for so many years before it's to be opened? By that action alone it implicates that the government knows the who, what, why, and how, and they don't want anyone to know what they know.

Why do you think that is?

what is a bit crazy, is that there is gunfire, and the car driver SLOWS down, it seems to me, if they are firing at my car... Im gonna speed the fock up.

Too many circumstances around this thing, also factor in the people they chose to be on the Warren commission, and this whole ordeal smells of rotten fish.

It is important to note that the initial movement of the head and the blood spray are clearly forward (compare Zapruder frames 312 and 313). There is absolutely no physical way to explain frame 313 as a result of a headshot coming from the front. Only in later frames does the head move backward.

The website below demonstrates using the laws of physics that the initial movement of the head forward and forward blood spray observed in frame 313, and the later rearward lurch of JFK, can all be explained from a single shot from the rear.

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/Scienti...head_shot.html

Many of those who still support a conspiracy theory have taken to attacking the authenticity of the Zapruder film itself. While I was a conspiracy buff for over 10 years, I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that the most plausible explanation is that Oswald acted alone.

We're Chief fans... Not Rocket Scientist's. That page made my head hurt just scrolling down. Not too mention reading it (Which I didn't).

If it came down to believeing the lone gunman theory or reading that article to prove my conspiracy believing theory wrong... I'm afraid Oswald DID do it.

~ I'll wait until 2036 when they open the files (If I make it that long)... Maybe then I'll have more time to read.

That is pretty much my point. Unless you are a rocket scientist, and want to dig through details like those provided in that web page, you really don't have much business arguing that the movement of the head is a physical impossibility. Maybe Donger will point out where this guy's analysis is wrong.

Here is a link that has some interesting video clips (no math). Scroll down to Back, and to the Left. Back, and to the Left. Back, and to the Left.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dealey.htm#jeteffect

Look at the videos where they shoot the melons and the skulls. They both move in the direction from which the gunshot came. There is also a snuff film of a goat.

I really don't think you're getting it. That site is overkill and requires too much understanding and decyphering for a casual "sabbath" Sunday evening.

~ I'll take your word for it.

How can you pass up a snuff film of a goat?

Finally something easy...

Answer: this line right here does it for me. "To play the clip, you will need Real Player." hate it and will never download that garbage onto my machine.

~ No thanks! :shake:

it depends on speed of the bullet...

you can use relation of a boxer punching another and his head swinging back and forth from one blow...

And I don't know about you, but someone shoots at my wife while I'm in the back seat of a car I'm NOT crawling my ass out the back. No, I'm going to duck, cover, and convert to Christianity...

Typically, one runs AWAY from the guy with the gun. Just a thought.

That poor, (sniff) little goat......

It died for it's country :p

If I'm reading that correctly, he claims that Kennedy's head moves forward only 2.2 inches between those frames.

Is that how you read it?

On average. He actually considers a range of 1.6 to 2.8 inches and calculates based on different values within that range. You cannot tell exactly because of the time resolution of the film. He considers that the head could have continued forward after frame 313, or that the head had already started back by the time the frame 313 was taken.

When the magic bullet theory was discredited, did they explain the pristine condition of the bullet itself?

Excellent question Watson...and how did his brain magically disappear?:hmmm:

The show I saw was on Discovery Channel not The History Channel, but I think that I was the same program from the sounds of it. In the show I saw they fired the same kind of bullet into the end of what looked like a sawed off telephone pole. The bullet came out in near mint condition.

The bullet was not pristine. They said that it was a myth. The bullet markings matched oswald's gun perfectly.

true but a bullet does not pass thru so much material (flesh, bone, cartilage) and come out looking almost identical to the condition from which it was fired...except for the barrel markings

anyone ever heard the Pearl Jam song "Whose got the Brain of JFK"?