Keitzman is hammering CP on 810
 

This is great radio.

He just stated a fact. Carl has drafted 3 pro bowl players on defense since he took over.

Jerome Woods, Derrick Thomas and Dale Carter are the only 3 players he has drafted on defense.

That is unbelievable. Woods got it on a sympathy vote too.

If you have time, tune in. He makes a lot of great points whether you hate him or not.

He just played clips that Carl stated he never received one ounce of negative criticism from fans. He also said that the 72,000 season ticket holders are the "real" fans.

The more I hear CP talk, the more I wish he would just vanish off the face of the earth.

Keitzman is ranting? *yawn*

He's speaking the truths about Carl Peterson. The friggen Chiefs and Carl's draft record deserves to be ranted on.

Normally I can't stand KK, but he is making some great points today. I don't know if this town can survive another awful Chiefs draft.

water is wet

the sky is blue

women have secrets

Carl can't draft.

Its pretty funny actually.

Dave

Beating up Peterson at some point has to feel like beating up on the short, fat kid...Way too easy of a target.

I don't need to here K repeat his same old rant again, thank you.

I think 90% of us already know all of the facts about our team.

I agree completely. Still doesn't mean I want to hear ANOTHER Keitzman rant on ANOTHER day. I'm tired of his voice.

water is wet

the sky is blue

women have secrets

Car'l can't draft.

Keitzman will find something to rant about.

Lamar would just declare it the end times and say that Carl had been taken by the Holy Spirit.

Yes, Carl, cant draft.....we all know that. Keitzman, the fans, we planeteers, can rant and rave all we want, but it doesnt make one bit of difference to the only person that matters Lamar Hunt. It wont matter to him until Arrowhead is only half full on Sundays. I dont see that happening anytime soon.

Until Keitzman produces stats of what other NFL teams have done (offensively and defensively) in the same time span, then I really could care less.

How many Pro Bowl D players have the Cardinals drafted, etc....

And when did the "Pro Bowl" become the definition of a quality football player?

Yep, I think there is a sequel to the "White men can't jump", in there somewhere.

"Carl can't draft" the movie.

Would you watch it?

ROFL

If Carl has any balls he'll pull the trigger on a DJ trade up trade down their 2nd round pick pick up a 2nd and 3rd use the 3rd for Surtain and the 2nd for DJ plus a 5th for the #9-#11 spot

Yeah, like that would ever happen.

How in the hell would he trade up to get DJ, and then keep a 2nd rounder to trade down with in the first place?

Do you really want to use the Cardinals as the benchmark for our Chiefs?

And to use one of our rivals as an example:

Broncos since 1989 - Atwater, Trevor Pryce, Al Wilson, Tory James, Deltha O'Neal and John Mobley. I would also take DJ Williams over any LB we have on our roster today.

You've been here long enough to make over 2000 posts (under this screename, anyway) and you still think it's possible Carl has any balls?

Why do you have to bring me into this?






:D

The Cardinals were used as an example, not a benchmark. And how many Pro Bowlers on offense have the Broncos drafted in the same time frame? If you averaged it out, I believe every team (offensively and defensively) would have similiar numbers as far as drafting Pro Bowlers.

With the way FA is, the draft plays less and less of a role every year.

And again, when did an invitation to the Pro Bowl start equaling exceptional talent? Look at Tory James and Deltha O"Neal for 2 perfect examples.

[QUOTE=TRR]
How many Pro Bowl D players have the Cardinals drafted, etc....

QUOTE]



This SUCKS, now we are being compared to the :cuss: :cuss:
Arizona Cardinals. Look how fricken low this franchise has become...

Not a good example. The guy was worse than Bartee and the Broncs couldn't wait to get rid of him.

[QUOTE=Chief Henry]Never compared KC with the Cardinals.

Well, he did make a pro-bowl courtesy of Trent Green.

FWIW, Gary Stills has made a Pro-Bowl, too.

I have. The Cardinals won a playoff game 5 years ago. Where does that leave the Chiefs?

Its not about Pro Bowls, its about defensive rankings. And the Chiefs have sucked on that side of the ball since 2000.

It's was a rhetorical remark

You've been here long enough to make over 2000 posts (on this screenname, anyway), and you still think there's such a thing as "rhetorical" at ChiefsPlanet?

I don't agree with that. Free agency is a tool that should be used to make a few moves to put a team over the top that has drafted well. If you look at the Pats, Eagles, Colts, etc... that's how successful teams do it. Sometimes I think the Chiefs are lucky to be as good as they are, because we just don't draft well at all. You look at these top playoff teams year in and year out, and the Pats draft extremely well as we know, the Colts drafted a slew of offensive studs and Freeney, the Falcons drafted guys like Vick and Kerney and Brooking and Crumpler, the Eagles drafted McNabb and maybe the best secondary in the game, the Steelers drafted Roethlisberger last year, to go along with guys like Hines Ward and several defensive players... we don't compare to any of those teams. We drafted Will Shields ages ago, Tony Gonzalez, Dante Hall, a couple safeties who fell off the earth last year, Warfield, Larry Johnson and Jared Allen. Is that it? I don't know, just doesn't seem like we're in the same league draft-wise with those other teams.

I would disagree with that.
You need the draft to build a core group of talent, and FA to finish up the product.

But with Carl, we have to put together that core group through FA, and then try to finish it up with the draft.

And that plan ain't working, cause Carl can't draft.

And we are using that plan, because Carl can't draft.

Pro Bowl is certainly the bench mark they use when defining a player.

Cardinals have drafted Simeon Rice, Aeneas Williams, Jamir Miller, Eric Swann are just ones I can think of off the top of my head on defense.

But regardless, so the Cardinals have sucked at drafting that gives Carl a pass?

That's like a kid bringing home his report card and his parents asked him why he failed and then he says, "Well my best friend failed too."

nlm

Hehe. I'm just f'ing with ya, man. :D

You can't possibly say that the draft has the same impact now as it did when Peterson first got to Kansas City. Year after year, teams can stock up in FA, and draft players strictly for depth purposes. When Peterson first arrived in KC, your 1st round pick had to be a player that could come in and start right away. Not so with the way the salary cap can be jostled around now days.

The draft is still important, no doubt. But because of FA, a player will be drafted in the first round, ride the pine for 2 to 3 seasons, have one good season, and depart via FA with a hefty contract. That is not always the case, but is becoming more of the norm.

I never said that. And for the record, I do think Peterson struggles when it comes to drafting, however, I think every team has it's problems when it comes to the draft. Peterson will never get a free pass, I just think that Peterson does a little better job than some give him credit for.

Either way, Peterson is KC's GM. There isn't a whole lot we can do about it.

If I were a GM, I would do it just as Peterson does. I think your core players have to come through FA. NFL vets are proven, and can get the job done. The draft is too much of a crap shoot to expect draftees to become your core players.

Good point, which is why its almost pointless to continue blaming Peterson. Instead why doesn't the media focus on Lamar Hunt and question how he can be seriously committed to winning if he continues to employ Peterson, despite the Chiefs having zero playoff wins in 11 years, only 1 playoff appearence in the past 7 seasons, etc.

I don't know about that, sure seems like most Super Bowl teams and other top contenders have built themselves through a core of drafted players, while teams like Dallas and Washington seem to struggle every year.

Exactly.

Gee then Carl was a colossal failure from the very beginning except for DT. Look at his first 7years (pre-free agency), other than DT there were no other instant starters and in fact almost none of them went on to become starters.

89 Derrick Thomas (only starter his full first year)
90 Percy Snow (never a starter)
91 Harvey Williams (never a starter)
92 Dale Carter (not an instant starter)
93 No first round draft pick
94 Greg Hill (never really a starter)
95 Trezelle Jenkins (never really even played)

One must also consider that the Chiefs thru out the 90's, didnt have a the luxury to draft high up on the board and didnt have a first round pick a couple of times. But regardless, Peterson has still for the most part, always tried to put a competitive team on the field each year.

So then you would have to agree that Carl is being really stupid forl not giving up a #2 for Patrick Surtain.

Completely stupid. However, now that the deal went down for Buchanon, I believe it will take more than just a 2nd to land Patrick Surtain.

To clarify again, I believe Peterson has struggled at GM. However, placing 100% of the blame on Peterson isn't fair IMHO. Peterson isn't the only one in the war room on Saturday and Sunday.

I try not to get too hyped up about the draft anymore. I was livid when we drafted Sly Morris a couple of years ago, and I almost drove myself to the insane asylum with the LJ pick as well (that is why I am not a GM). So now, I just sit back and take it all in.

I think that's right. The league has matured and doesn't treat free agency like it did in the mid- to late-90s. Successful teams draft stars that they retain and only make occasional forays into free agency for 'name' players. Generally those moves are made as a luxury rather than a need. On the flip side, teams like us are left trying to correct repeated draft mistakes by gambling on older and/or injured players. Consistent success in the NFL today is clearly dependent upon a strong core of drafted players and, beyond that, I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to connect our draft results to our on-the-field results.

That's a new one... A dog who wants to have his nose rubbed into it... Nay. Demands.

Well, IMO, the Patriots would have never won the Super Bowl without Corey Dillon last season, so as I said before. I think it averages out.

It depends on the individual.

ZZZ ....Your still here.

So how did they do it without Dillon twice before.

Even if your assumption were true, it is still a team that has drafted a core group of talent, and used FA to tweak the roster.

You want to compare us to one of the worst franchises in the league? In order for us to win the SB, we need to compare favorably to the best teams in the league. I did a post awhile back comparing us to the Steelers. They kicked our asses, not even close. No search function or I'd find it for you.

Yeah, I think I've explained that one enough already.

Next....

Besides pointing out that he was not a free agent and they won two Superbowls before his arrival, I'd reiterate this point:

Talk about not getting the gist of a post...

I never compared KC to Arizona. I just used Arizona as an example, just as the other poster did with Denver. No comparison, just an example as to how (offensively and defensively) things even out.

FA/Trade...Same thing. And I wasn't talking about the past 2 Super Bowls. Every season is different.

You can't talk about the consistent success or failure of any franchise based on just one season.

Kevin Keitzman is indicative of PRECISELY why Carl Peterson is still here.

If KC had anything resembling REAL MEDIA instead of these morons, maybe they could have affected some real change.

If Carl Peterson's drafts are so BAD, why bother making stuff up that's not true?

Harvey Williams started for 2 full years after leaving KC and rushed for back-to-back 1000-yard seasons.

Greg Hill was a starter for 2 different teams but broke both legs.

Yeah, the facts on their own are enough to make that point abundantly clear.

Uh the point I was responding to, was that he said prior to free agency it was critical that your first round draft choice start right away. Neither of those players started for the Chiefs either right away or for that matter pretty much ever.

So why is it acceptable to bash on the KC media, but not Rufus Dawes? Seems like you are being inconsistent. Not that your point is not correct.

Then why did you say "and in fact almost none of them went on to become starters" when 4 of the 6 players you listed DID?

Exactly.

Could have added Victory Riley, or Sylvester Morris, or Ryan Sims to that list...

Good God his drafts have been horrible. :banghead:

Clearly I should have said for the Chiefs, my error.

Where did I EVER say it's not acceptable to bash on Dawes?

I merely pointed out the irony (and HYPOCRISY) of posting Dawes' articles here for "entertainment" purposes.

I never said prior to FA. Re-read the post(s).

No problemo. :thumb:

In that case, add Victor Riley and possibly even John Tait.

And then there's Joe Horn and Greg Favors.

Goddammit Jim! :banghead:

While I agree you did not say it dirctly you certainly seemed to imply it with the year after year teams can stock up in FA statement. If I read something into it you did not intend, my error, and my apologies.

I didn't mean to imply. No big thing Vlad.

My point is this:

Carl Peterson is a joke. Rufus Dawes is quite possibly the lowest-class Bush League insult to fans in all of professional sports, let alone the NFL.

But everytime a guy like KK or Whitlock levels a VALID criticism against him, all he has to do is say "Yeah, look who that came from. Mr. Pants around his ankles, or Mr. Walked out of his radio show while on the air."

Now, now, Rufus will have a hard time beating out Al D_avis:p

ive been watchin it for to long dont think so

I think you'll find "most" great teams were built through the draft(Steelers, 49ers, Cowboys) but in today's era you need to have a good combination of great drafts & making correct decision in the FA market. Obviously if Carl had drafted the correct players over the last few years to go along with the Priest Holmes & Willie Roaf's the Chiefs would be up in the Patriots echelon. You have to have a few years of great drafts to go along with the correct signings of FA's.

DAMMIT CARL!!!!!!!! :cuss:

The reason you build through the draft is that it's cheaper. You get a 2nd, 3rd, 4th round pick signed to a three or four year deal at a reasonable price. If you go sign a vet, they get paid more...plain and simple. The Eagles have guys like Sheppard, Brown, M. Lewis, etc. who aren't getting paid as much as guys like Woods, Wesley and Warfield despite the painful disparity in level of play. Why? The Chiefs have years in the league which means money.

I really can't believe anyone believes that FA/trade is even remotely as important as building through the draft. Hell, not many teams have done better through FA/trade than the Chiefs, and look at our lack of success on the field. We're the perfect counterpoint.

Pat Tillman (7th rnd), Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, Leonard Davis, David Boston, LJ Shelton, Cory Chavous, Michael Pittman, Frank Sanders, Garrison Hearst, Jeff Christy, Ricky Proehl, Larry Centers, Tom Tupa...


Oh, and Jake Plummer. :)

Kietzman was on fire today! I usually can't stand the guy, but apparently bashing Carl is his strong suit.

Unbelievably good radio!

I think we can all find common ground in the fact that KK is a major dillweed that wants to watch Jack Harry golf nude.

I can't listen to Kietzman.

Not because I can't stand him but because I can't stand Clinkscale. That guy is like fingernails on a chalkboard for me.

I can't stand him either...usually. Today was one of those epic rants, though. Up there with Jim Rome, and that time Soren Petro ripped Frank Thomas up and down while calling him the "Big Skirt". "Fatty is ALWAYS hurt!"

KK was feeling the flow today, doing the bull dance. It was as if all of the stars aligned just right. Honestly, it was amazing. And once again, I can't stand Keitzman. I was just flipping through AM stations when I landed on it.

Keitzman is a whore. I'll never forget when he put that Donkey jacket on at Invesco. And he was too spineless to stand up to my e-mail challenge.

That being said, Carl is a whore too, and he can go to hell.

I wonder if I would get arrested at Arrowhead for wearing a T-shirt that said:

You won't get arrested, but you might get a hand-job from a Broncos fan who's turned on by your message.