Christian spirit?
 

http://kltv.images.worldnow.com/images/3820292_BG1.jpg

A confrontation this morning between an East Texas church and an evacuee from New Orleans. It centers around a sign out front of Woodland Hills Baptist Church on Old Jacksonville Road in Tyler, about a mile inside the loop. Some say the message is offensive.

"I drove by that sign and was just horrified when I saw that," says Kelly Jackman who now lives in Tyler but used to live in New Orleans.

That sign at Woodland Hills Baptist Church reads ,"The big easy is the modern day Sodom and Gomorrah."

Kelly along with her sister Robin Lafont, an evacuee from New Orleans, showed up this morning at the church to talk to the man who put it up, Pastor Wiley Bennett.

During a heated discussion, Robin asked, "What's the point of the sign out there?" Pastor Bennett replied, "The point of the sign is New Orleans, Las Vegas, San Francisco, and New York City are some of the most wicked cities in America."

Robin, who still has family members unaccounted for in New Orleans, is offended by the sign. "I'm telling you. This hurts. Why would you want to put more hurt, more salt in my wounds and why would you want to do this to me?"

Kelly adds, "And to go by and see this church saying that God did this to destroy these people and basically they're celebrating that by putting that sign up there saying look at what God has done. He has destroyed the city of New Orleans because it is evil."

Pastor Bennett says, "Anybody that's ever visited New Orleans, the very name its self - Big Easy - denotes that it's easy to find sin there."

Pastor Bennett says the sign, is a sign of the times. "The purpose of the sign is to wake American up to the fact that America is going away from God. New York City's 9/11 was a call of judgment and New Orlean's horrible incident was judgment on a wicked city."

Pastor Bennett was quick to point out that the church has helped evacuees by donating clothing, food and lodging, but their good will seems to be overshadowed by the sign.

"I'm not saying that you were evil and didn't have good intentions but it is hurtful. It's extremely hurt full. That's all I'm saying. I'm asking you to take it down," pleaded Robin.

"If I was doing it to hurt people I would take it down, but I'm not doing it to hurt people. I'm doing it to point out the sins of America," said Bennett.

Even after the sisters left the church, the confrontation continued in the parking lot. Kelly said, "That sign also says a lot about your character and your integrity and it's nothing good I assure you."

"They both called me an ungodly person with bad character and all that, and that's their right, but I have people that would say differently," Bennett told us.

Finally, the confrontation came to an end, but with no resolution. Robin tried one last time, "I'm asking you to take it down." Bennett said, "We can not go any further so we may as well go." Robin said, "That's fine. I need to go."

Robin and Kelly say they are going to spread the word of opposition to the sign and encourage people to contact the church. They hope the church will eventually take it down.

Since the sign went up, many KLTV viewers have e-mailed us with their comments. Wednesday night, a viewer named Tammy told us:

"Encouragement is needed, not more salt in the wounds... How could anyone see that sign as appropriate or bearing witness for Christ?"

We were at Woodland Hills as they prepared for Wednesday Night services.

They say earlier in the day, they were deluged with phone calls from people urging them to take the sign down.

But they say after our report, the response has been 100 percent positive. They began their service with a prayer for the people of New Orleans and Mississippi, and we spoke with many members including these who say they support the message on the sign.

Betty George has been a member for 23 years.

"Our pastor has a strong stand on the Bible and he preaches God's word, and he has compassion for America and the souls of America."

Randy Hays joined Woodland Hills in 1999.

"All our pastor was trying to say is that America is pulling away from God, and He wants America to realize that."

Pastor Bennett told us once again he has no plans to take down the sign right now, despite outcry from the community.

Gillian Sheridan reporting. [email protected]

Source

Never would have expected a Fire and Brimstone Baptist to put up a sign like this. [/sarcasm]

What a clown.

God apparently hates poor people. http://volokh.com/posts/1126031439.shtml

It's not surprising to me. There are some incredibly judgemental "Christians" in this country.

That's disgusting.

Obviously of the same ilk as Phelps. What a stupid thing to do... essentially craps on all the great things Christians are doing for Katrina victims.

Weird. You almost never see some religious nutjob passing judgement at inappropriate times.

If anyone wonders where anti-religious sentiment stems from, this is a good start.

Pathetic. Hope this guy finds out God speaks with a Cajun accent when he meets his maker.

I know that part of being a pastor is telling people things that they may not want to hear. But that is to his people who choose to go to that church. I would think they would want a sign that attracks people to the church. Well, this one did, I guess. People calling, news crews, etc. He's probably loving it. While what he said may be true. There is sin in EVERY city in the US. Why point out this city at a time when the wounds are still fresh? I think it was tactless. He could share the same message later, when things have calmed down. People are way too emotional at this point. Good message, bad timing. IMO.

Wow. I hope that sign catches on fire tonight. And then falls on the preacher.

Its a crap message at ANY time! This is what drives me nuts with these religious wackos. Nothing is right in the world unless everyone else is doing exactly what they are doing. Absolute crap!

Dave

Exactly!
The only good things NO is known for is their food and music. The drunken festivals, acts of violence, sexual activities, and Saints football are only a few the bad things that NO is known for. That's not to mention the voodoo creole women that give you lots of money to marry them then kill you when you try to leave with the money. When you see people on tv asking how God could let this happen, you have to think to yourself, why would God want the activities there to go on as they have?

Anybody who thinks that God made this huricane to specifically knock out NO's, every other American that sat in their own state knowing the sins that were going on in NO and did nothing to stop it, better watch out because they will be next on God's list.

This is a ridiculous post. The part about the Saints was funny, though.

Talibaptist.

There is a difference between trying to follow God's word and sinning, and specifically seeking out things that are religiously and morally wrong. Putting that message on a sign for the general public will do more harm than good, but even if God didn't send Katrina to clean out NO, (which I don't think he did), using an event that you have no control over to make yourself a better person is the best thing that could come out of the situation.

I don't think there are many people in America that haven't changed their values or the way they live (religiously or morally) after watching 9/11, the tsunami, or Katrina. But I guess it is ok to let a bad situation change you for the better if you aren't religious, but if you do the same thing using the bible as guidleline you are a whacko. :rolleyes:

Its a crap message at ANY time! This is what drives me nuts with these religious wackos. Nothing is right in the world unless everyone else is doing exactly what they are doing. Absolute crap!

Dave

How is it ridiculous? The people suffering weren't the rich owners of the bars, strip clubs, or casinos. If God punished them they were guilty only by association. Any religous leader that believes that God targeted the victims merely because of association better watch out themselves because knowing the sinful things that were going on and doing nothing to stop it make you just as guilty.

Speaking of music...

Here is a list of New Orleans musicians that are known to be safe, courtesy of Mary Katherine Aldin of the Post War Blues mailing list:

Jeffrey "Jellybean" Alexander, Steve Allen, Kevin Allman, Brint Anderson, Theresa Andersson, James Andrews, Troy "Trombone Shorty" Andrews, Johnny Angel, Christine Balfa, Marcia Ball, Lucien Barbarin, Mike Barras and family, Rebecca Barry, Bruce "Sunpie" Barnes, Dave Bartholomew, Harold Battiste, Jamal Battiste, Russell Batiste, Tab Benoit, Beausoleil (Michael Doucet and all band members), Doug Belote, Better Than Ezra, Terrance Blanchard, Eddie Bo (plus sister Veronica and his band), Bonerama, Big Chief Monk Boudreaux, John Boutté, Lillian Boutté, Tricia "Sista Teedy" Boutté, Alonzo Bowens, Russ Broussard, Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown, Jody Brown, Maurice Brown, Wendell Brunious (Preservation Hall Jazz Band), George and Nina Buck (Palm Court Cafe), Henry Butler, Grayson Capps, Big Al Carson, Ricki Castrillo, Topsy Chapman, Alex Chilton, Evan Christopher, Jon Cleary, Rick Coleman, Harry Connick, Jr., Cowboy Mouth, Susan Cowsill, Davell Crawford, Jack Cruz, Dash Rip Rock, Jeremy Davenport, Theryl "Houseman" DeClouet, Dirty Dozen Brass Band (all members), The Dixie Cups (but lost everything), Big Chief Bo Dollis and the Wild Magnolias, Michael Dominici, Fats Domino, Rockin' Dopsie & the Zydeco Twisters (alll members), Dr. John, Snooks Eaglin (and family of 12, all now homeless), Lars Edegran, Nancy Edwards, Joe Espino & New Orleans Brass Potholes Band (all members), Charlie Fardela, Jack Fine (of the Palmetto Bug Stompers), Pat Flory & Donna, John Fohl, Frankie Ford, Andy Forrest, Gina Forsyth, Pete Fountain, Derrick Freeman, Jonathan Freilich (N.O. Klezmer All-Stars), Bob French, Peter Fuller, Funky Meters, Galactic, Katrina Geenen (WWOZ dj), Banu Gibson, Steve Goodson, Tim Green, John "Papa" Gros and all members of Papa Grows Funk, James Hall, Tony Hall, Jeff Hannusch, Corey Harris, Leigh "Lil' Queenie" Harris, Duke Heitger, Clarence "Frogman" Henry, Corey Henry, Andi Hoffman, Kenny Holladay, Peter Holsapple, Hot Club of New Orleans (all members), The Iguanas (all members), Burke Ingraffia, Benny Jones Sr., Leroy Jones, Dave Jordan and family, Kirk Joseph, Jerry Jumonville, Chris Thomas King and family, Joe Krown, Julia LaShae, Joe Lastie (drummer, Preservation Hall Jazz Band), Tim Laughlin, Washboard Chaz Leary, Bryan Lee, David Leonard & Roselyn Lionheart (David & Roselyn), Herman Leonard, Lil' Rascals Brass Band, Li'l Stooges Brass Band, Eric Lindell, A.J. Loria, Jeremy Lyons, Ronald Markham, Ellis Marsalis, Jason Marsalis, Steve Masakowski, Irvin Mayfield, Tom McDermott, Humberto "Pupi" Menez (and aunt Caridad Delatorre), Charlie Miller, Charles Louie Moore, Deacon John Moore (band members unknown), Bill Morgan, Tom Morgan, Chris Mule, Kenny Neal, The Neville Brothers, Charmaine Neville, Ian Neville, Ivan Neville, Kevin O'Day, Anders Osborne, Joshua Mann Paillet (owner of A Gallery for Fine Photography), Stevenson Palfi, Earl Palmer, Panorama Jazz Band, Joshua Paxton, Michael Pearce, Spike Perkins, Dave Pirner, Renard Poche, Pocketfoxx, George Porter Jr., Dirk Powell, Shannon Powell and family, Gloria Powers, Wardell Quezergue, Quintron & Miss Pussycat, The Radiators, Jan Ramsey & most Offbeat staff, Rebirth Brass Band (Kabuki unknown), Herlin Riley, Marcus Roberts, Coco Robicheaux, John Rodli (New Orleans Jazz Vipers), Biff Rose, Brent Rose and family, George Rossi, Wanda Rouzan, Dixie Rubin, Kermit Ruffins, Scott Saltzman, Mark and Will Samuels (Basin Street Records), Ben Sandmel, Jumpin' Johnny Sansone, Marc and Ann Savoy and family, Alexandra Scott, Mem Shannon and the Membership, Derek Shezbie, James Singleton, Johnny Sketch, Michael Skinkus, Robert Snow (New Orleans Jazz Vipers), Steamboat Willie, Sally Stevens, Armand St. Martin, Brian Stoltz, Marc Stone, Bill Summers, Ken Swartz, Irma Thomas, Dave Torkanowsky, Rick Trolsen, Allen Toussaint, Willie Turbinton, Johnny Vidacovich, Rob Wagner, Mark Walton, Walter "Wolfman" Washington, Melissa Weber, Raymond Weber, Mike West, Dr. Michael White, Marva Wright, June Yamagishi

If stupidity were a sin, you'd be "next on God's list".

You can say that again.

Unable to comprehend simple English, with the naiveté to call somebody else stupid because of their ignorance... priceless.

KC Kings...are you saying you agree with what was put up on that sign, and that New Orleans had to be "punished" or "cleansed"?

Oooookay. Not what I meant to say at all. A church is going to teach what it teaches. If the people want to learn what that church is teaching, they will go there. If that is the type of thing this pastor is teaching, it's his church. I just think it was tactless to put something like that on a sign outside at a time like this.

And I'm sure the pastor is loving the publicity. I myself, would not consider that a good thing.

I am not a religious whacko, tyvm.

I don't speak for him, but that's not the way I read it.

Not only that, but you need to be "punished" as well for knowing what went on in NO and not doing anything about it. ROFL

This is what I hate about BOTH sides of this coin. He posted it and you act like it's something.

The guy and his church believe a fairly strict set of rules. NO is a city that prides itself on breaking those rules. I didn't hear you guys crying about the fact that these church members were being offended every day that NO did it's thing.

Now the roles are reversed and the church is doing their thing and you guys are all bent out of shape. Hypocrites.

Like a wise comedian once said: "Don't kick a man while he's down? What better time is there to kick a man?"

In his first paragraph he talks about the crime, sex, and voodoo women. In the second, he talks about how people shouldn't think they're safe anywhere from God's wrath.

I guess I just need a little clarification. Hopefully I'm off base.

While we're at it, can you guys give me a list of the people it's Ok to offend? Obviously we can start with #1:

1. Christians
2. White men
3. ?

It doesn't surprise me at all. The religious whackos are on campus quite often calling people names ("homos") and talking about how disasters and attacks are retribution by God.

http://www.geomembrane.com/040121%20Cross%20003sm.jpg
You go ahead and climb up there, I'll go grab some nails....

Evidently it is not okay or you wouldn't be crying about it.

dam straight


and people wonder why organized religion ticks me off so much...

3. Christian white men

I don't care if I "offend" someone. It's my right to live the way that I choose, and it's my lot in life to deal with the consequences, should there be any. Those church members have the exact same right, and so long as they live their lives the way that they see as "right", nothing that I or anybody else does can touch who they are or what they believe.

And we seem to be overlooking the fact that, no matter why they believe this happened, they are still donating money and items to the relief. That doesn't mean he shouldn't take the sign down, I think he should. But it is the church's property, so they can put it up if they wish.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I don't think saying this sign is bullshit makes us hypocrites, unless we're going to his church and telling this nut and his followers that they should go to New Orleans so they can marry voodoo women and live in sin.

ROFL rep

I'm not a Christian. I am a white man, but I prefer to classify myself as "obese" so that I'm a victim, too.

Whatever. This was a flood. No fire and brimstone. No raining down sulphur.

****ing open source geek.

That is interesting. What else could one put on a sign? Nudity? Swearing? Sex-acts?

I thought there was some sarcasm there, but I could be wrong. I think it's best that I just leave this thread alone because I'm a real dumbass.

Are we going to turn into salt for watching it on TV?!?

Hey, me, too. Although I think of it as being a victim to me own overwhelming lack of willpower and insane uncontrollable urges to eat things that I know are bad for me. It's like I'm a smoker, but addicted to a different kind of cancer-causing batshit.

Only fake nudity.

Why do you think Chiefs Planet overloads so much?

Not at all. The people that suffered and died were not the ones responsible for or benifitting from the sinfull activities that NO is known for. A poverty stricken eldery grandmother is no more responisble for the sins of the Big Easy than a Texas preacher is for knowing what went on and not doing anything to stop it. If God specifically setout to drown grandmothers in sewage water to pay for the sins of NO, then the preacher better watch his steps because he is just as guilty.

Anyone who "feels" for these "poor people who had to read this sign" but don't feel for the church members who have to view scenes and hear stories from NO, which is equally offensive to them, is a hypocrite. Those people have made a decision about who they care about being offended and who they don't based on who-knows-what criteria.

I'd lick myself. Although I guess my tongue would be salt, too. Mmm, salt.

I agree completely. The message of the sign is not, IMO, incorrect. But a sign is not the way to get the message across and his timing shows lack of judgement and respect. Of course, when you read the Bible, God's prophets and preachers didn't sugarcoat His message for fear of it not being received well...

Good point.

About the thread, not you being a dumbass. :D

I've seen several trucks that have the outlines of naked women on them, people pissing, and you've never seen a bumper sticker that had a cuss word on it?

What's this "offended" shit? Why the hell don't people get a clue. If you don't like something, here's a new idea...don't fucking do it. Lead by example.

As for "viewing scenes and hearing stories from NO", uh, well, if you don't approve...quit viewing the scenes and listening to the stories. If you're "offended", it's your own fucking fault, unless you're strapped into a chair with your eyes taped open being force fed scenes of debauchery. Turn it off, close the book, find something good to experience. Stop being a voyeur and live your own life.

I wonder if the preacher would've put this sign up if his mother or sibling had died in the flood.

They're "offended" by knowledge of its existence, or something.

My point was that these two boobs from NO should have done the same thing when they saw this sign.

I wonder if part of their Baptist belief includes disrespecting the dead. Or maybe they just preach general poor taste.

ah ... but the people in NO weren't going around telling this church how to live/feel/act.


the difference is who is try to shove their beliefs onto other people.


one side is just living

the other side is trying to judge/condemn how everyone else lives

Beautiful comment.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

That sign shoud read 'Welcome to Tyler! The asshole of Texas.'

They're trying to shove their beliefs by posting something on a sign on their property? Aren't you passing judgement on them by saying that? You tell someone you think the Chiefs are the best football team. They disagree, so you talk about it. Are you shoving that on them? Do you have Chiefs emblems on any of your automobiles? Do you give people crap for being a Denver or Oakland fan? Difference is, one is sport, which you enjoy, and the other is religion, which you don't enjoy.

I bet he would say that he would still put the sign up regardless of what happened, but if he had a loved one die in the flood, I guarantee he wouldn't put up the sign. He's a hypocrite ass.

I understand there are lots of "sinners" in NO, but what about Gulfport and the 100 miles of shoreline wiped out? What's his story then?

Now THAT'S a statement....

ROFL

I don't think there has been thousands of people lose thie homes or lives at a football game.

Bottom line....this guy put this sign up for selfish purposes. He wanted attention, and according to this thread, he got it. But in the end, people really should just ignore this guy and his church. That would do more damage than people bickering over what the meaning of the message really is.

I don't know about shoving their beliefs on people, but they are making a pretty obnoxious statement. I don't think the comparison to a Chiefs emblem is accurate.

It's disrespectful, and in poor taste. But it is also well within his constitutional rights to put that sign up.

That doesn't stop me from hoping his house gets washed away in a flash flood tonight.

your actually comparing sports discussion/sports competition where part of the "fun" is competing with the other team and fans with a church basically saying that the people in New Orleans deserved to die? :spock:




AND YES putting this sign up is pushing their religious beliefs onto other people.


if i put a sign up in my yard that says "follow Allah and kill all americans" ... that is isn't aggressive?

Who cares? Big friggin deal, anyone who is offended by signs anymore needs to get out and see more of the world. I am a Christian but seeing that sign would make me think that preacher hasn't a clue and to move on. I wouldn't start up a campaign if i drove by a mosque and saw something to offend Christians. Move along nothing to see here.

Now on to some things that do offend me

Gas Prices
Pissing in public (yes i've offended myself a few times)
chair throwing escapades (hey hal have you broken any chairs lately)
the royals and baseball in general
pete prisco
door to door watch salesmen
hidden camera's whilst i'm speeding
a possible dirtnap in my not so distant future
things that are purple (sorry saul)

i could go on but would anyone care? :p

Although I was talking of people thinking Christians shove their beliefs in general, I completely agree with you.

Hi-ho, hi-ho. It's of to work I go!

Absolutely not. I was commenting on your statements of Christians shoving their beliefs on people. There are some who do, but it's unfair to make generalizations. People do the same thing s with politics, sports teams, etc.

I apologize if I sounded like I think the people in NO deserved to die. I could not disagree with that more. I hope you don't think I would ever think that.

The Preacher is wrong.

In Genesis God promised he would not destroy the world for its sins by flood ever again. It must either be the vengence of some other God who made no promises to Noah.........or George Bush.

-HH

ahh ... but it is a big deal because this church holds a position of power and influence over people of faith.


when the the religious dudes in the middle east say "go kill americans in the name of Allah" it's breeding hate in the name of religion.


this sign is also breeding condemnation and hate etc

Love the avatar.................
 

]Never would have expected a Fire and Brimstone Baptist to put up a sign like this. [/sarcasm]

What a clown.[/QUOTE]

The best avatar, evah.

didn't think you did...


but that's what that sign basically says




a huge difference between debate sports or politics and that sign imo

I would say you take life way to seriously, go read the rest of my post.

Yeah, and Osama speaks for God too

If god did punish people merely because of their associations then I'd be very wary if I were a Christian. Any Christians want to disown Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell before it's too late?

the british are about to start kicking non-citizens out of there country for the breeding of hate by religious(and other) means

NEWSFLASH


if Jesus Christ were to return and walk the earth again tomorrow he would be considered a tree huggin',animal lovin' "stinkin' liberal" panzy.


and with any luck he would be telling all these extreme right-tards about how they should be packing SPF 1 million for their after lives.

To them I say "good job outta you"

I don't see preaching hate here, but if that's how you interpret it by all means let the preacher know. I see a preacher taking something to the extreme but I wouldn't go to services there so....

agree to disagree then




i see a not-so-subtle "homos deserve to die" message on that church sign.