MIZZOU ST
 

Hey about those MISSOURI STATE Bears!!! The ESPN men's basketball front page has them as "Mizzou ST". Man, bet you mizzou fans hate to see that. Seriously, they have a very good team this year. It IS a shame that little mizzou won't play the BEARS unless they are forced too. Well while da Bears are cuttin some net in the Big Dance maybe, just maybe little mizzou can grope for an nit bid.
HA ROFL ole mizzou had it coming, fighting the name change and doing everything it can to avoid playing little ole sw missouri state in the day!!!!!

No, not really. :shrug:

Eh, I don't think Mizzou cares that much. They also would have been crazy not to fight that name change. Although, now I remember a lot of folks made a big deal at MU about not calling it Mizzou St. That was one of their big sticking points...

I thought they had worked that out with media outlets. Maybe not.

Northern Iowa>SMS

Even after beating them in their own house? Cool.

ROFL chit Pitt...........another Planet argument not clouded by the facts.

Fact: Mizzou State went into Northern Iowa and won in their recent meeting.

Facts? What kind of reeruned are you?

Missouri Valley
Team Conf. W-L Tot. W-L
Wichita St. 12-4 21-7
Northern Iowa 11-5 22-6
Creighton 11-5 18-7
Southern Ill. 11-5 18-9
Missouri St. 10-6 18-7
Bradley 9-7 16-9
Drake 5-11 12-16
Indiana St. 4-12 12-13
Illinois St. 4-12 9-16
Evansville 3-13 7-18

As of right now, UNI>SMS. That could change, but UNI has been a "lock" for the big tourney for a while. SMS has been on the "bubble," moving towards stronger consideration.

help us out
 

Well congrats to N. Iowa. Their 2x OT win over Bucknell is sure gonna help Mizzou St. with the RPI (every little bit helps). The talking head will probably be talking MSU into the Big Dance for sure now!

Wrong. Mike Alden (during the football season) said that the term Mizzou is copyrighted and they did not want to be associated with a I-AA football program.

Of course, they won't play the the I-A basketball program. Makes for good rivalry though, both sides can say the other one is scared of them.

Actually I'm waiting to see somebody in the Mo. Valley get shafted for a .500ish team from the Big 12 or Pac 10 for the tournament, which will be too bad. There are those top 4 teams that are legitimate tournament teams, Mo. State is on the bubble of breaking in there, Bradley really could be good enough to throw a wrench in the conference tourney and go deep, and even Indiana State down there has great wins over Indiana, Northern Iowa, and @ SIU, they're like 12-3 when their leading scorer has been healthy, they could be a dangerous lower seed.

name calling is the first resort of a lame argument.

I think that if two teams meet on the basketball court and the Bears beat NI that means that the Bears are better than NI.

Missouri has every right to defend the 'Mizzou' moniker; it is a trademarked nickname that appears on a huge portion of Tigers apparel. Oh, and it's the name of the freakin' arena.

If I were in the administration, I'd pitch a fit if I saw anyone calling SMS 'Mizzou State.'

Also, calling SMS that makes no sense; the state is not referred to as Mizzou; the only thing referred to by that name is the university SMS is attempting to compete with.

If I was the AD at MU, no matter how good—or bad—the basketball team is, I'd never schedule a game against a in-state rival in the same classification (i.e., UMKC, SLU, SMS)... there's nothing to gain and everything to lose in that situation.

It always will be SMS to me... and I can't wait to that POS Blunt go down in flames in ’08...

Chicken. :p

tk,
There's nothing to be gained from scheduluing an in-state rival from an inferior conference. More times than not, it will hurt your RPI, and that game means far more to a SLU or SMS than it does to MU. It's a trap game... and all it can do is hurt your in-state recruiting, especially in St. Louis.

It's not a matter of intestinal fortitude... it's a matter of being logical.

So, what? K-State also beat Kansas in AFH. However, the only way you could claim that K-State is better than KU right now, is if you were utterly ignorant, or if you were smoking crack.

Look long enough and youll probably find Missouri St, UNI, and a 3rd team wrapped up in a paper-rock-scissors paradox, what then?

On any one day anybody has a chance against anybody else, but one game doesnt prove that one team is better than the other, you have to look at the body of work, and UNI is a better team than Missouri St., even when including their head-to-head match into consideration.

The MVC has a higher RPI than the Big 12 right now.

:spock:
That's something to be proud of. And I'm not talking about the Big XII.

This year could end up being an outlier, too. It certainly isnt normal, though the MVC has been consistently better than most mid-major conferences. Scheduling a MVC team is a high-risk low-reward proposition for the Big XII in most years.

That's why I said "more times than not."

The proof is in how the teams that get in the tourney perform. In Texas and Kansas, the Big 12 has a legitimate national title contender and a good dark horse candidate. The MVC hasn't got that. That's where the TRUE separation is.

I'm pretty sure MSU and St. Louis are both higher in the RPI rankings than Mizzou is. They should be, they're both in or near the bubble for tourney bids. In reality you just don't want to face the embarrassment of not being the top in-state school. You can come out and say it. :)

Yeah, but how do you know that, you don't really know that. I'll grant you Texas, but you just pick Kansas over the MVC teams because of the name on the front of the jersey basically. KU lost to the Patriot League last year, and that league had never won a tournament game.

Recent years have seen teams like Kent State and Xavier get to the Elite 8, and compete. I mean we'll have to see the draw... but a team like Northern Iowa getting to the round of 16 or 8 would not surprise me at all.

tk,

Nothing to do with embarassment... I've felt that way for years and years.

Am I ashamed that our *hit-head coach let our program fall so far? Hell yes. Check back in a few years; it's still the premier job in the state (facilities, money, tradition). Get rid of Alden, put Sundvold in charge of the athletic program, hire a coach that can take advantage of the opportunities the job provides, and MU will be back.

There are lots of state programs that schedule this way...

And here's an example: If kansas and Missouri weren't in the same conference, would kU EVER schedule a game against Mizzou? Something tells me no.

Just for the record and for those who know nothing about College basketball, like this guy appearantly, let me give you a little analogy...

The Big12 is to Missouri Valley Conference as is the AFC West is to NFL Europe, catch my drift? Missouri St. does not have a good team in comparison to any team in the Big12, except probably Baylor. As much as I do not like MU bball or think they suck, I think they would beat up on SMS anyday of the week.

As far as instate recruiting do you really think recruits look at that? Scheduling these mid majors in non conference games are a death trap, simply because most teams wont get anything out of them. A win against someone in the SWAC or Mid-Continent conference doesn't mean shit when it comes to selection Sunday.

I say that based on a few things:

1) watching kU play and watching MVC teams play. I've seen SMS play... I've seen UNI... I've seen Creighton... I've seen SIU. And none of those teams has the sheer talent level that kU does. I pick kU as a dark horse because of the crop of extremely talented young players on that team; because of the Jayhawks ridiculously good defense; because it is a team that appears to be peeking, and the kids are growing up. The big-time talent is "taking off the diapers" so to speak.
2) reading and hearing what basketball experts—people paid to break these teams down for a living—have to say about kU. And what I'm reading and hearing jibes with what I've seen with my own eyes.

It has nothing to do with the name on the jersey and everything to do with what I've seen on the hardwood.

You are on crack.

More like youre an idiot if you dont agree with that.

Not true. KU's players are far more talented because they get the cream of the crop recruits as for someone like SMS and NWMS get the first and second team all state players from Missouri and other Midwestern states. The really good ones go to the state schools.

By all means, you'll get no disagreement from me. KU has a talented group of players. Far more McDonalds All-Americans. But fans, and analysts, get too caught up in that sometimes. Sometimes there's more to it than just running and jumping and flying around like KU can.

Northern Iowa is a good basketball team. They beat Iowa, who leads maybe the most competitive conference in the country in the Big 10. They went into LSU and beat an athletic LSU team, that is 10-2 in the SEC, which is always a feat. They just took out that same Bucknell team that beat Kansas. They can play. As can some of these other Mo. Val teams.

I say they still would, just like the Kentucky and Louisville rivalry. The MU KU rivalry extends further from just bball.

I don't agree with that. I don't think any Mo. Valley team would win the Big 12, but they'd be more than competitive.

This is where people get stupid about these one year wonders. Every once in a while youll have a team come out of nowhere and play like they are on another planet while a marquee team plays mediocre at best and the top team falls, like KU did last year against Bucknell. I would bet all of my bank account on the fact that KU and other big time schools would beat these smaller schools 49/50 times.

More than who, Baylor??? Come on, no one really thinks Baylor's in the Big12 anyway, except for baseball. Maybe Southern Illinois and possibly Crieghton would be a bottom 3-4 team in the Big12 but thats about it.

BS

Think you misunderstood me... I was saying my evaluation of kU as a national title dark horse had nothing to do with the name on the jersey and everything to do with what I had seen on the hardwood.

I'm definitely with you on the state school/small school thing... Missouri—when it's not being run by a cokehead who seems more interested in schtupping his star player's girlfriend—can attract a level of player schools like SMS can only dream of.

tk,
UNI has a solid shot at the Sweet 16/Elite 8... but I doubt you'd find anyone who would consider them a dark horse national title contender. That's the difference in having mediocre talent and superior coaching and execution (UNI) and having superior talent with good coaching and improving execution (kU).

A 'great' season for a basketball power in the MVC is a run to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8. A 'great' season for a basketball power in the Big 12, Big 10, Pac 10, Big East, SEC or ACC is a Final Four/National title appearance.

That's the key difference...

Every once in a while? It happens every year, multiple times. Just in the Mo. Valley alone this year:

-Northern Iowa beat both Iowa and LSU, 1st place teams of two of the best conferences in America, as well as a very good ranked Bucknell team.
-Wichita State lost a 1 point heartbreaker to Illinois
-Creighton beat Nebraska (who is tied for 5th in the Big 12) by 26 POINTS
-Drake, who is 5-11 in the conference, lost @ Iowa and @ Boston College by a combined 8 points
-Indiana State beat an Indiana team early in the season that was up near the top 10-15 at the time before the whole coaching controversy started tearing the team down.
-Evansville beat Purdue, at Purdue
-Illinois State had Cincinnati within 6 points in the 2nd half before Cincy pulled away.

I mean those last few are just the bottom feeder teams, and they've been more than competitive if not beaten "major" teams. There's a reason their RPI is so high, it's not just an accident.

Uh, UNI also beat SMS. It's called a "split" I believe. Of course, KSU beat KU on the court. Are they better than KU? MU also split with KU, which by your strange definition, means they are also "better than" KU. Interesting.

Exactly. UNI will not "out talent" very many teams. They will, however, beat teams like KU. They simply play better basketball. If Funk was healthy for Creighton, I'd pick them in the top of a league like the Big 12.

Yeah, my point never was that the MVC is consistently as good as the Big 12. This year they're probably closer than a lot of people would like to admit though. And I think that happens every year, there's a conference or two that legitimately is pretty talented that gets shafted for some .500ish teams from a conference like the Big 12. If a team like a Nebraska gets in over someone like Southern Illinois it would be pretty disgusting, regardless of what the Big XII homers here say. Sometimes the reason there aren't as many of those upset stories is because a "smaller" conference only gets a team or two in the tournament. The MVC is usually pretty good anyway but this year has been a pretty special year for them, I hope they get rewarded. The MAC had a year like this a few years back and only got one team in, Kent State, and they almost made it to the Final Four.

Your being a bit overly paranoid this year. The power conferences as a whole are way down. There are plenty of bids available for both the Big XII *AND* the MVC to get at least 4 teams in. Most years the power conferences have so many strong teams that opportunities become hard to find, but this year the MVC is actually better than the PAC 10 top-to-bottom, and better than the Big XII as a whole after giving Texas, KU, and OU a nod.

The bracketologists at ESPN are spookily accurate, and they have declared that the MVC has a 3-team lock, a 4th team almost at a lock, and 2 more teams in the hunt. A 5th bid is not out of the question for MVC. It definitely is out of the question for the Big XII, barring a shock in the conference Tourney.

I agree with you. But we'll see, I don't trust the selection committee. Honestly though, the Big East and Big Ten should just get half the at-large bids... :)

I wouldnt trust the selection committee of old during the 1990's. Recently, the selection committee has proven themselves many times over to be fair in recent years.

We are going to have to see a monumental collapse from the MVC for them to have only 3 bids, never mind 1 or 2.

When is selection day?

I remember 35-40 years ago the MVC was not to be toyed with. Their top teams were as good as the Big 8 top teams. WSU and Bradley in particular. It's not quite back there yet but it is eerily similar. I hope KU doesn't draw an MVC team in the first round. I think KU would pound them into submission with sheer size and depth but maybe not. We have 5 guys 6'8" or taller and 3 of them are 235# or more. And I saw a stat that showed KU's defense is among the best ever in limiting the other teams FG %age. I know I'm a homer but I do realize some of these "lesser" teams can beat us on a given day. I've seen it happen several times.

Personally I would love to have 5 teams from the MVC in the NCAA tourney. Just makes the pathway easier for KU.

Its usually the night of the conference tournaments' championship games. I dont feel like looking it up though sorry.

Didnt Bill Walton play for Bradley and then transfered to UCLA? I thought I heard that somewhere. Or maybe he played at Illinois, I cant remember.

Missouri the state is never called Mizzou.

Mizzou is clearly assocciated with the University of Missouri-Columbia.

SMS or NWMSU, or CMSU, never called themselves southwest, northwest, or central mizzou state.

Our latest crop of noobs is going bonkers this year posting nonsense. NTTAWWT.

Another thing to consider is that the Dance is different from the regular season with all the TV timeouts. Royboy used to say he had time to take a nap during tourney games. This hurts a "wear 'em out" team like Kansas was under Roy. Even so, I have a fond memory of the KU-Arkansas gameof the early '80's (I think). The Hogs motto was "40 minutes of hell". KU wore those poor bastards out. Oliver Miller, Arkansas' big center was so gassed he didn't even go down to the defensive end of the court during the final minutes. He just stood under their offensive goal and waited for the play to come back to him. Hilarious. Anyway, that is what KU has over the mid majors. Not only do they have better talent but a lot more of it. You just can't wear a KU team out. But they can certainly wear out a team without depth. Royboy ran you to death while Self beats you up. The results are the same.

Creighton plays Nebraska every year and Iowa St. a lot. But outside of those 2 no one else in the Big 12 wants to play them. :(

KU ought to be able to play them once in a while, they could withstand a loss here and there to an MVC team without being fazed, but for most of the rest of the league, a win wont be rewarded, while a loss could be damaging to recruiting.

If Creighton had Funk, Dotzlier-sp ect. ect. and not been hit hard by injuries all year they'd be running away with the Big 12 not to mention the Mo Valley.

I think so as well. However, UNI wouldn't be far behind...
:)

As beat up as they are and how many guys are out for the year Altman has probably done his best job of coaching this year. They have no depth left on the bench. It's amazing they've got this far. :eek:

Southern Illinois is the same way I think... I looked at their schedule and they didn't really have any big games before conference, I doubt teams want to play them. They got in the tourney last year, won a game, then gave Oklahoma State all they could handle... Creighton was in it last year and lost on a last second play to an elite 8 West Virginia team.

Then in 2004 Northern Iowa took a Ga. Tech team that made it to the title game down to the wire. 2003 S. Illinois lost to Mizzou by 1 in the tourney... 2002 S. Illinois beat Texas Tech and Georgia, Creighton beat Florida. 2001 Indiana State took out Oklahoma. Really going back and looking at it they've done pretty well in the tourney against the Big XII, against everyone really, better than I'd expected.

Problem is the Mo Valley gets almost no exposure. Hence the Bracket Buster games the past few years. :(

Hell the Creighton game last night didn't start till 11pm. That would have been a good game to see live. The crowd was very loud and more than likely liquored up last night by then. ROFL