So who got the better QB, K.C. or Denver?
 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ted/index.html

Yep, last year's overrated/underrated column was right on. Darren Sproles underrated? Check. Fabian Washington overrated? Check. In fact I bet this is another congratulatory call coming in now... Oh crap, it's Bears coach Lovie Smith. "You know I'm never going to let you live down that Tommie Harris/overrated bit two years ago."

Yeah, yeah, I know. Eli Manning still calls to taunt me every two weeks as well. What can I say, some years pan out better than others.

But I've got a good feeling about 2006.

Quarterback
Overrated: Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt
Let me start by saying I do think the pride of the Commodores could well be a solid NFL quarterback. Considering he spent much of his career running from unblocked pass-rushers and throwing to third-rate SEC receivers (until last season, when freshman stud Earl Bennett came on the scene), Cutler's accomplishments at Vandy -- 3,073 yards, 21 touchdowns and nine interceptions as a senior -- were nothing short of remarkable. But the mere fact that many among the NFL cognoscenti are even thinking about taking Cutler ahead of the most dangerous quarterback to come through the college ranks in years (hint: rhymes with "rinse tongue") makes Cutler overrated -- and raises serious questions about how some of these scouts themselves would perform on the Wonderlic.

Underrated: Brodie Croyle, Alabama
Considering how much emphasis the NFL puts on arm strength, you'd think they'd be falling all over themselves for this guy. Croyle has a gun (just ask the Florida secondary). His mechanics are impeccable and his natural leadership abilities had a great deal to do with the Tide jumping out to a 9-0 start last season. I'm sure his substantial injury history (he underwent shoulder and ACL surgeries while in Tuscaloosa) is helping to knock him down the pecking order, but the fifth-year senior was a picture of health last season when he completed nearly 60 percent of his passes for 2,499 yards, 14 touchdowns and just four interceptions. This, despite the fact he played behind a horrendous offensive line that allowed 39 sacks and had to work with a largely unreliable receiving corps after Tyrone Prothro went down with a broken leg.

I'll take the guy who shattered Joe Namath's passing history at the same school.

Cutler is going to be great.....as long as he isn't be tutored by Plummer.

Croyle has a great chance of being great, because he is going to be tutored by Green.

Cutler has far more upside. He was also the 11th pick overall, a pick they traded up for.

I'll take Croyle.

I say this with homer glasses off, in 3 years Croyle will be the better QB of the 2. Croyle has the better arm and makes better decisions. If he bulks up a little bit and Shea coaches him up the sky is the limit.

Huh? That doesn't make any sense: Cutler has far more upside....I'll take Croyle.

You want the lesser of the better?

Croyle (no homer glasses) look like better upside if injury
don't derail him.

5th-year senior?

Anyone know his wonderlic score by any chance?

Only time will tell.

In college Cutler had better numbers while Croyle had a better record. Which is more important?

http://www.geocities.com/dakcman/gator_champs2.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/dakcman/logo_head.jpg

Won't know for about three years.

IIRC, Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, and Heath Schuler were all pretty badass college players.

This is one of those threads where someone says they are taking off the homer glasses, and then go ahead and pick their own guy for some stupid and arbitrary reason...

Homer contacts don't fool me.

Its nice to have a bona-fide prospect for QBOTF.

They both got QB's with good arms who took a beating in college. Denver's QB never suffered a major injury though. Advantage - Bronco's. Except for the huge QB controversy that will erupt after the first Plummer INT of the year.

Who is your pick Taco?

I just got a two for one deal on a new prescription for homer spectacles and I'm seeing better than ever right now.

Time will tell, of course, and I think Cutler is a fine QB. But, we have Brodie. So, I'll vote for him. Why? because winning more than 6 football games a year would be an entirely new experience for the goats' new gridiron leader.

FAX

Cutler has more upside, that doesn't necessarily mean he'll be better. There's a good chance he could be a complete bust too.

Neither will start next year, which means neither team needed a QB. Even if they did, Croyle is far more ready to play now than Cutler is.

To me, Cutler is an 8 out of 10 for potential and a 2 out of 10 for risk. Croyle is about a 4 or 5. When you factor in what each team gave up to get them, I'd absolutely take Croyle.

I met the scout and excoach at the draft dinner last night, who coached Namath and Stabler at Alabama, and he was really high on Brodie. Said he'll remind you of Montana. Said he's been playing in the system we run here, and his learning curve is small.

Of course, he's going to say it's Cutler.

If for any reason, he was picked in the first round and not in the third round.

Good point. But, I like Cutler chances better because Denver has a better history of drafting QB's than KC does.

Despite KC's poor history in drafting QB's, I like Croyle's chances better than any QB we drafted in the past. You have to like a guy who was knocked down on nearly every play, and to get back up and throw as well as he did with poise under pressure. We all know both he and Cutler have the intangilbles, but will they both be able to understand not only the complicated offenses, but the speed of the defenses? Only time will tell.

Since 1982:

Buddy Funck
Todd Ellis
Shawn Moore
Tommy Maddox (25th overall)
Jeff Lewis
Brian Griese
Jarius Jackson
Matt Mauck

That's a great history of drafting QB's right there...

This is simply the funniest homer-thread I've ever seen on CP. You are SERIOUSLY debating whether Brodie "two blown ACLs, a blown shoulder, and a skinny frame" Croyle is going to be a better NFL QB than Cutler. I love it.

Oh, please put my vote in for Cutler.

(Chiefs fans are so cute to watch sometimes; ya' lovable losers you.)

Campus: 4.9 seconds in the 40-yard dash...275-pound bench press...33.5-inch vertical jump...31 ½-inch arm length...10-inch hands...Right-handed...24/42 Wonderlic score.

http://www2.jsonline.com/packer/insi...=Croyle&pos=QB

I'm going to make a reach here and say it's the guy who went in the top 15 over the guy who went at position #85.

Given that Croyle is a walking surgery (missed his senior season of high school with a torn left ACL, separated his shoulder during the 2004 season, tore his right ACL in 2004), I have my doubts he'll even play much at this level.


Aside from that, I can only go on scouting reports, where Cutler has Croyle beat in just about every category. Cutler has proven already to be a better third down quarterback, which I think is crucial at this level. Cutler is faster on his feet than Croyle is, and that lack of speed has hurt Croyle's third down conversion percentage. Cutler has proven to be more natural than Croyle at making a second chance at a play happen, due to his athleticism and ability to escape.

According to the scouting reports, there's a reason why Cutler was drafted at 11 and Croyle was drafted at 85. You definitely got good value at the spot... That's a nice place to draft a Quarterback with Croyle's upside and downside. Bottom line, if Croyle were tougher, he'd probably have been a first rounder.

John Elway.

Brian Griese at least ended up a starter, as did Maddox.

Who have we drafted since that period?

Blackledge? :shake:
Fuller? He did become a starter
Blundin? :shake:

And gawd knows who else.

Of course, you can make the argument that Denver didn't draft Elway, they instead STOLE his arrogant California azz.

In all likelihood they'll both end up sucking and we won't even remember them in 3-4 years.

Cutler:
Campus: 4.81 in the 40-yard dash...400-pound bench press...Bench pressed 225 pounds 27 times...480-pound squat...295-pound power clean...315-pound hang clean...32-inch vertical jump...31 ½-inch arm length...9 3/8-inch hands...Right-handed...26/36 Wonderlic score.

http://www2.jsonline.com/packer/insi...=Cutler&pos=QB

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/croyle_brodie


http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/cutler_jay

I think its far too early to tell, and in truth, due to the fact that Cutler was traded UP in the first round to select, and the Chiefs drafted Croyle in the 3rd more would be expected of the newest Elway replacement.

They both had some Oline issues in college and subpar WRs. From the little I've seen and what I've read, Cutler has a great arm, but Croyle has a little more power and good accuracy.

I think it will boil down to many factors we can't predict..Oline, WRs, coaching and mental capacity under pressure.....and injuries.

Today....I'll give Cutler the Nod.

Ask me again in 3 years.

Denver did not draft Elway.

the then baltimore colts (now indy) drafted john elway

We asked nicely for him.

I think at this time, Cutler is the one... but, when pads are on... who knows.

I had Cutler as my #2 rated QB, and Croyle at 3. So Cutler.

If you don't think Croyle is capable of being better than Cutler, you're clueless. The two blown ACLs you bring up are the main reason Croyle went in the 3rd round.

Exactly, not only did we get a better QB, we got’im cheaper. nlm

The major advantage for Cutler is the lack of injuries. Croyle has been beaten up.

The major advantage for Croyle is the situation he is arriving into. As a 3rd round pick, we can safely expect him to sit for 2 years. I also predict that after 2 more seasons, Trent will be sliding in production. That should also give ample time to Croyle to strengthen up and add 15-20 lb. Croyle will have a lot expected of him by the fan faithful, but Cutler is going to be in a national media pressure cooker from this TC on. I expect he can handle it, he seems tough, but he may well be rushed into action. As a Denver hater I love the fact that there is going to be a QB controversy there for the forseeable future. I can't see that helping either QB perform at his best.

Bottom line, Cutler was drafted #11 for a reason. But Croyle is much higher value, IMO.

According to the source you provided, the players grade out very similarly, with Cutler getting a slight edge, mostly due to having a beefier frame and the power an durability issues that go with that. If Croyle can put on some muscle thereby increasing his durability, they'd be dead even on potential.


You guys spent a #11 overall for your guy. We got ours for a thrid rounder.

If Bono Croyle can stay healthy, there's no telling how many games he can lose with you guys...

I'll take croyle for a 100 alex.

WTF
 

Bench presses of 275lb (for a skinny kid) and 400 Freaking lbs and 225 27 times for a quaterback?

Who here can even come close to either one. In my day, I could do 225 maybe 2-3 times max.

Just wow...

~back under rock~

If you followed either QBs career, you'd realize Cutler was much more used to losing.

Which I think is the real question. Who got the better value vs. potential.
Should Cutler bust (and we have seen plenty of 1st do so), Denver loses more than KC. His chances of failure may be better than success since Denver has proven to be wrong with every QB they have picked. (Elway picked them, they didn't pick him).

Chiefs will only be out a 3rd rounder should Croyle fail.

So what? Croyle's dad can beat up Cutler's dad.

The Chiefs will probably be in a tough situation with Croyle. Third round picks generally sign 3 year deals. Trent is expected to play another 2-3 years. Just when Croyle is given an opportunity his contract will likely be up.

I dont really care as to which one is better...they might both suck, but I had to point out the irony in Teej calling out anyone as a homer. Maybe he got a new telescopic lens in that predominately orange homer scuba mask so that he could see the homer contacts.

All kidding aside, he does have a point. Im not sure what the rules are anymore, but as the only Chiefs fan site that only allows Bronco homerism, this thread should probably be locked and any KC homers banned.

Somebody store this POS post for three years from now when the Rat has f**ked up Cutler like he has with every QB since Elway and Herm has coached up Croyle like he did with babyface in NY.

That's the guy I was trying to think of all weekend to compare Cutler to.. Heath Schuler. That's who he reminds me of. Just couldn't remember his name. I hope the Bronco's continue to throw Plumber under the bus and chant for the Schuler clone. ROFL

Wrong again. Croyle's dad runs a home for the mentally challenged. Cutler's dad is an Indiana State Patrolman. :p

Hell, the rat should have drafted Croyle instead since he's already used to dealing with reeruns.

Of course it's also a good thing the Raiders didn't draft Cutler. It would be a shame for his dad to have to arrest him at every family dinner.

I like both guys. I'd give Cutler the advantage on physical attributes, but I'd give Croyle the advantage in terms of winning at a high level. I'm not sure how one could say that one will be definitively better in the NFL than the other. I'd guess that people like vailpass also thought Pennington, Carmazzi, and Redman were going to be better than Brady.

The basturd should have played baseball ............. :p

Not nice dude.


QUOTE=Simplex3]Of course it's also a good thing the Raiders didn't draft Cutler. It would be a shame for his dad to have to arrest him at every family dinner.[/QUOTE]
ROFL

WTF? None of those three chumps had anywhere near the on and off field talents/intangibles Cutler has. Feel free to not put words into my mouth going forward, thanks.

27 Qb's drafted in top 15 since 1989...

1989: Troy Aikman (1)
1990: Jeff George (1), Andre Ware (7)
1992: David Klingler (6)
1993: Bledsoe (1), Rick Mirer (2), Dave Brown (9)
1994: Heath Schuler (3), Trent Dilfer (6)
1995: Steve McNair (3), Kerry Collins (5)
1998: Peyton Manning (1), Ryan Leaf (2)
1999: Tim Couch (1), McNabb (2), Akili Smith (3), Culpepper (11), Cade McNown (12)
2001: Mike Vick (1)
2002: Carr (1)
2003: Carson Palmer (1), Leftwich (7)
2004: Manning (1), Rivers (4), Roethlisberger (11)
2005: Alex Smith (1)

Clearly reviewing this list, the fact that Cutler was drafted 11, like Culpepper and Big Ben, he'll be the same type of QB. Had he gone #2, he might have been doomed.

No..... they all thought son of a bitch( Griese ) was going to be the next Joe Montana.

Croyles Dad was a lineman who chose not to play in the NFL.

Over 15k kids have gone thorugh his ranch.

Yeah but do they remember a damn thing?

I keed, I keed.

I'm just ****ing with Simplex; no need to play the Saint Croyle Sr. card. I was a Brody Croyle fan the whole time he was at 'Bama, I loved his bulldog style and brains.

just a FYI, nothing more.

And under Jake's tutelage, he will learn to use those second opportunities to throw left handed interceptions deep in his own territory.

21 QB's drafted in the 3rd round since 1989...

1989: Erik Wilhelm, Anthony Dilweg
1990: Tommy HOdson, Peter Tom Willis, Neil O'Donnell
1993: Billy Joe Hobert
1995: Stoney Case, Eric Zeier
1996: Bobby Hoying
1998: Jonathan Quinn, Brian Griese
1999: Brock Huard
2000: Chris Redman, Giovanni Carmazzi
2002: Josh McCown
2003: Dave Ragone, Chris Simms
2004: Matt Schaub
2005: Charlie Frye, Andrew Walter, David Greene

Looking at this list, the only QB that ever amounted to a hill of beans was the one that Denver drafted, so it's clear that Croyle has no prayer playing QB in the NFL.

Chiefs Fan:

"Ha ha ha. Broncospaid WAY more for his Schwinn than we did for our sweeeett Huffys. And ours have wheels and pedals and a frame so they must be just as good as yours.
And we paid a LOT less. Both tires have popped but they have patches now. We're so smart. Schwinn and Huffy are the same thing. Uncle Carl said so."

Given both teams track record of drafting QB's, assuming that Cutler is better because he was chosen by Denver is silly.

Time will tell. Let's see Cutler come back from those injuries before we compare toughness.

So 14:38 in the 1st game and it all erupts!

Dave

There once was a donk fan who thought
Their draft pick was great but he's not.
Cutler never threw scores
'Cause he played for the 'Dores.
The rat's better off picking snot.

FAX

Wah! Billy Joe Hobert was a freakin' stud, ,man!

:D

Chris Simms seems to be doing all right with Tampa Bay. But, I agree- looking at that list- it doesn't look very good for Croyle. But, does it really matter WHERE they are drafted?

Its impossible to say, so far Denver has yet to have a QB that didn't need a tight leash and a psychatrist since elway left and KC hasn't devopled a QB anytime recently. Seems to be a bit of a wash.

I know...and Carl wasted his pick on a OG that year.

Gotta do something to help KC stay in the game at Invesco.

That article is a joke. Vince Young one of the best QB prospects to come along in years? How can a guy with a 6 Wonderlic score be a successful NFL quarterback? It's just not going to happen.

I'll take Cutler over Croyle, but Croyle over Vince Young.

Neither Cutler nor Croyle had much offensive talent around them. Croyle was the highest ranked QB coming out of high school. He should have gone somewhere other than Alabama, and he may have been a first-rounder too.

That shit might cut it in GoChiefs Gay2006HighSchoolPopularityCircleJerkMostPopularCPMemberEVAR111!!!
but it won't win play off games!!!

:p

Overall, i'd take Jay Cutler by a solid(ish) margin, but Cutler as the 11th pick or Croyle as the 85th pick, and it ain't even close - Croyle.

I must have missed where I directly attributed anything to you. Note the "I'd GUESS that people LIKE" in my post. Comprehension, Grasshopper.

Maybe he can give Jay Cutler a call and ask him for advice on how to deal with losing.

I do think Cutler's mentality probably helped sell Shanahan... I don't think he'll be like Plummer and come over whining every time he makes a mistake. I know it's high school, but Cutler did play for one of the best football high schools in the state. His team went 47-4 in his four years at the school and he won a state title. I think Shanahan will use him to his strengths, it's a better pick than Griese because Cutler is a really good athlete and probably fit that offense better.

Croyle was a great pick for us because of the offense we run. There won't be a big of a learning curve as some of the other QB's. Both guys were lucky because they went to teams with good coaching staffs who will use them to their strengths.

Geezy Whillikans, Mr. vailpass!!!

1. If you were to review my posts, you will find that I like Cutler very much. I think you should be concerned, however, that the Commodores' winning percentage is equivalent to the alcohol content in a Pepsi. And, as you well know, it is far too early to determine which, if either, pick will blossom.

2. My art has nothing to do with the circle jerk contest.

3. I, nor anyone I know, can take any responsibility whatsoever for the fact that your head coach is a bugger eater. That's just something your kind has to live with.

FAX

Cutler went to Denver????

I didn't know he was gay.

QBs are such a crapshoot that the best QB in this draft might turn out to be Hugh Jass who was drafted from Stinkhole State in the 7th round. There's no use even worrying about it for a few years at least.

If that was for my benefit...I know dungver didn't draft Elway. I know he threw an Eli and got traded.

I also am not indicating that I believe Denver DID draft "another" Elway....merely a tongue in cheek at the "Denver is unpossible to beat at drafting QBs"


I still think is recockulous to say who is better when neither has taken an NFL snap.

Alot of First Round QBs end up worse at NFL football, than I am at golf.


Eggo Fans were pretty impressed with Ryan Leaf's combine numbers, size, arm stregth and college numbers......at one time.