All I really desire is freedom FROM religion. - No offense has been intended
 

I think some here misunderstand my intent as being a hater of people who are believers. If you have been around a long time you would have seen me defend many different religious types from the bigotry of so called Christians.

I personally believe there is a creator(s) but I also suffer from the illogical nature of the idea where did they come from?

So being as we are approaching a religious season for most religions I select this time to apologize for any hurt I may have caused any of the posters on this BB who mean well.

This is a thread not intended to stir the shit so hopefully it can stay in the Lounge.

Hey Vlad. No offense here. To each their own. The way it always should be.

I also agree to each his own but some ppl on the Planet make fun of religion just to be an ass Cough Gochiefs cough.

What a relief. We've been waiting 2,000 years or so for your approval. I guess we can go global now.

Thanks rookie Donx fan, today you are a man.

I just don't like 90% of church people, at least the ones I've encountered. they are self-centered, judgemental and very inconsiderate people.........for every 1,000 "church people" that I've encountered, 900 of them are terrible/stupid/a$$hole people.

As long as your interests, don't conflict my interests.

Glad I will fall in the 100 you will like then.

The fact is, the people who aren't like that, you don't notice. You only notice the pushy ones.

I don't know what I believe, to be honest. I dont think we spawned out of the sludge by mere coincidence... yet, I also find it highly doubtful that's someone's sitting upstairs pulling all the strings.

The thought that there's nothing else after this... that it just ends... scares the shit out of me. I guess in the end, I try not to think about it much.

I try to "do the right thing", not because I'm worried about punishment in the afterlife, but because it's how I hope everyone will behave. We need guidelines, of course. I figure if I live my life as a basically good person, other people will generally be good to me.

I hope there's an afterlife, and I hope that it will be good to me too. I also hope it's not that hard to get in... because I dont really have much faith... just hope.

We banned GoChiefs for a month last year after he made some horrible crack at Jesus about a week before Christmas. I don't remember what it was... I want to say it was something about being molested in the manger or something. Hell I don't know. That doesn't sound right. It was terrible though. Man, oh Man did I get some complaints about that one.

Gochiefs acts has if he is Above every one who believes in religion.

Pot and kettle dude :shake:

quite observant there

I don't know, it's just that I hear that garbage all the time, it's the age old argument for someone who gets a bad taste from some over-zealous of maybe misguided Christian.

It's almost like a chapter in the Atheist Debator's Handbook (which I owned at one point in my life actually) the crux of their argument is "well, you can't see Jesus, how do you know he's there...you can't prove it..."

same ole same ole. Or they meet 15 "church people" of the same nature, or a church girl denies them a date, and all of the sudden all "church people" or Christians are jerks - we are all hypocrites in some ways.

Everyone has freedom from religion...or even Christ himself.

That's why it's called faith.

Anyone here think they can show or prove how much they love their kids?

I do think if there really is a creator its not one man has made up.

Dave

Says the guy that chooses to give good or bad service to the people he serves food to by what they are wearing when they walk in and sit down at his table. ("If you are wearing a cowboy hat and boots I'm spitting in your food 'cause I know you won't tip me later")

FWIW Jim, I don't think I've ever felt offended at anything I've read from you. I have pretty much gathered where you stand based on your posts, but to me you've at least presented yourself in a respectful manner (at least in comparison to some of the other posters.:p)

I also hope I haven't come accross to you in any negative way as you indicated some have.

Jim- from what comments I've gathered from you(none of which I would call hateful or opinionated), I'd call you a seeker.. someone open to the idea of a power higher than us, but quite skeptical all the same.

Far from being offended, my church is geared towards people just like you. We welcome those who don't know what to believe, if anything. True Christians are not judgmental- in fact we're loaded with the same problems and hangups as anyone, with no room or right to judge anyone. Those who do can count hypocrisy amongst their own faults.

Z

I don't like religious people.

But that's mostly because I live in a town with a bible college and I can bank on them coming to my house to push it on me about 6 times per year.

Seconded. REP.

I don't mind religion, or religious people. You can choose to believe whatever you want to believe. I don't really give a shit, it has no bearing on my life whatsoever.

I don't even think all the bullshit that surround this time of year is religious in nature. Do you think Christmas started November 1st 200 years ago?

Sounds like a great place for my religion=masturbation theory.

Religion is like masturbation. If it makes you happy, by all means, partake. But keep it to yourself, and spare me the details. And try not to get any on me.

The guy made a comment about his dealings with people of faith, he said nothing about hate, why would you equate that to spitting in someone's food. You are confusing stereotyping with malicious intent. We all stereotype to one degree or another we just need to refrain from the hate you describe

ChiefsPlanet History 101
 

This is why:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=48814

It starts with post #9 and just goes downhill from there. It seems a little silly to me to see him complaining that certain people are judgmental.

2003, talk about a memory, I just hate people with memory's like that.;)

Sorry PastorMikH I had no idea that you were referring to something he said 3 years ago.

I guess I have a lot of reading to do.

I have not read such a statement from Logical, it's a big Planet and may have occured someplace I have not read. Which thread was it on?


As for KCChiefsman, my response to him has to do with the his making a generalization based on a few people he actualy has encountered. The refference to him spitting in food and providing poor service goes back to the same types of generalizations he's made towards other people in the past. He himself has bragged on the Planet how he would intentionally provide poor service to people based on their appearance when he was employed at a resturaunt in KS.

You replied while I was typing. Jazzz's comments about him of all people reffering to people being critical of others is exactly what I was making refference to.

Thanks for the thread Jazzz, I really didn't feel like looking for it.:)




We should really have another forum designated "Required Reading Threads" so newer people can get up to speed quicker.:)

It's in the Hall of Classics, so it didn't take very long to find.

:)

Interesting...

The thing is: some people think that Christians should just keep to themselves, sit at home in their favorite chair curled up with their leather bound book, and not bother the world. But... when you live with a worldview where people who do not repent and come to faith in Christ are heading towards an eternal hell, you believe that all humans share an equal and intrinsic worth simply for being human, and God has commanded you to be loving and share the Gospel, then you have a hard time just sitting back and keeping out of other people's lives...

If I come up to you on the street or talk to you on your porch and you tell me, "Go away," that's fine--it's your choice, I'll go... But I'm not going to hang back, never approach you, and be worried about offending you...

and that, is precisely why so many people complain.

Exactly.

I don't come to your door and try and convince you that god doesn't exist. Please return the courtesy and leave me to my eternal hell. Thanks.

Hey, if I ever show up, you can always slam the door in my face...

Yea, and maybe if my barking dog wakes my napping daughter again I'll just let him out to imbed the fear of god deeply into you, and jesus can sew your ass up at the pearly gates.

Your statement shows a clear disregard for my peace, time, and privacy. That's precisely why I harbor ill will towards you people.

hahaha
Honestly I've never been that bothered by it. That sort of thing had pretty much nothing at all to do with my decision when I gave up on faith.

I'd just politely tell you 'appreciated, but no thanks'.

I like the old "judge not lest ye be judged" line of thinking. I guess for GoChiefs, he doesn't have to worry about being judged, so he's free to judge whatever he damn well feels like.

My opinion is that he's as asshat. And he'll neg rep me for saying so, and probably call me a hypocrite, saying that I judged him, when in fact, all I did was offer an opinion based on his past actions.

Are all the godless heathens who live in the remote areas of this world condemned to eternal hell because you can't make it to their doorsteps to show them the light?

Yes, there's probably some man in a remote tribe in some jungle that's never done anything but live his life as a good husband and father that's going to burn in eternal hell because he didn't give 10% of his monthly bananas and monkey teeth to the molester in the biggest hut in the village.

If it works for you...

If you get that upset over someone knocking on your door, then I'd say your ill will runs a little deeper than concern for your peace, time, and privacy...

I'm like you and believe that humans (atleast at present), can't possibly understand something like the universes' creation/creator. It would be even more impossible than getting an ant to describe the pyramids . It's like asking when time began or what's outside of the universe. These questions simply cannot be answered by the human mind. I mean when you give a monotheist God sex organs, what does that tell you? We create myths for things we can't possibly understand which is why I believe God was created in Man's image...not the other way around.

But I do believe in God. I really have felt the presence of what I would like to think of as benevolent higher being. When you look at the universe, it's very hard to believe that certain things just happen at random, without some higher intelligence guiding them. I have accepted the fact that I am a lower being to this higher intelligence and that the truth will or will not be revealed to me according to its wishes/design. Ego is what makes the human race feel like we are privy to this information.

However, the good thing is. If a being is truly of a higher nature, then it is by default what most humans would be considered good. I doubt a creator of this magnitude would be evil or indifferent.

Well, I'm glad you don't know where my porch is.

I have no problem with religion at a fundamental level - instilling base values and character (if it's used that way, as opposed to, say, teaching children it's okay to strap on a bomb and blow children of the wrong god up). But I thoroughly believe that the more organized religion is, the worse it gets. Good luck naming an organization that has caused more suffering and reeruned the advancement of our species more than the Catholic Church. I'd really like that 1,000 or so years back. Oh well. No star trekking for me, I guess. Darn.

I see religion (ALL OF THEM) for what it is - a tool for good or evil. It can be used to instill sound values or bend gullable fools to the will of the charismatic. Right or wrong, for better or worse, I have my own views on God, Jesus, heaven and hell, and I really don't care to hear anybody else's at this point.

As for the idea of all non-Christians burning in hell because they haven't been saved, well, sorry, I just don't buy into that. What of the untold millions (billions?) of people who have lived and died since Christ's time who were simply never exposed to Christianity? I am supposed to believe that they all now roast in hell because of geography or upbringing, regardless of how they lived their many lives? Think about it - that's simply preposterous. We are what we're programmed to be by our parents and our communities; it's always been that way. And good and evil certainly transend any human notions of religion.

That's how I find most people to be who don't want to listen. To which I say: "Okay, thanks for your time," and move on...

Though I do understand how some can get really annoying--those who come and try to put their foot in your door and won't go away... heck, I'll even slam the door in their faces... :)

Read your post and still have no idea why you made it, why I should care, or why you feel a need to bring this up.

If those who do know Christ and have accepted him were to make posts like this pronouncing our beliefs, people like you would strongly and loudly object.

I'm a Calvinist... my views on that is that God is sovereign and He's going to save whomever He desires to save--He simply uses us as the mouth pieces. Now as such if there are some godless heathens living in a remote area that He wants saved, He'll get a messenger of the Gospel there. On top of that, given the Great Commission of Matthew 28:18ff, I think we should do what we can not just to stand on door steps but also to get people into those remote parts, but ultimately, in the end--the results are up to God.

LMAO

Wow, don't know quite what to say here...on one hand it is quite a personel thing (religion) but as a Christian you are asked to tell others about the good news...it is a shame that it is done poorly to where it is a burden or pain to some and they get turned off. I guess I can just say that I don't want to see anyone burn in Hell (whatever that is) and want everyone to be in Heaven (whatever that is)...but most likely we are destined to be what we are. Sometimes events happen that will lead you one way or the other, but typically someone 'beating on your door and berating you about it' wouldnt have worked on me...it was a path that I landed upon myself. But I for sure beleive there is good in the world (i have witnessed it) and bad (i have witnessed it) and have tried both. I have alot more peace of mind in my present lifestyle of being a Christian then I did before that decision was made. I now do not worry about the 'philosphy' of life...if I am wrong...oh well, but if I went the other way and missed out on eternal bless because I was as stubborn as most...that would be extremely misfortunate.

Hope this does not offend anyone...just want to give my viewpoint on the fact that you can be a "Christian" without being 'one of those people'.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Why would he do that?

A few people here know (because I've bragged about it numerous times) that my fiance (2.5 weeks to go!!!) is a minister. An intereting thing happened to her a couple of weeks ago.

Her church is in a neighborhood, not on a busy street at all. The church has a huge softball field, a park, a basketball court, a track, and tons of land. At times some of the kids in the neighborhood come and play football or play on the swings, or whatever, but very few in the neighborhood ever come to church, and she's never been able to figure out why. In an effort to bring the neighborhood together, not to proselytize, she has begun having neighborhood watch meeting in her church, to help build a feeling of community. At the first meeting, a hundred people showed up. She didn't say one word to any of them about coming to church, etc, just let the police have the floor and shook some hands. At one point in the evening, she found out that a minister 2 or 3 before she took over was always going door to door trying to goad folks into coming to church, and they ha dalways been afraid that it was what the church was about. The fiance assured them she didn't work that way, and explained to them her idea of ministry (compassion, love, acceptance, etc). Now, since then, more people from the neighborhood have been sprinkled in on Sundays.

Intersting thing I took from that is that more than door to door stuff, just having an open door with no pressure will bring more into the fold than paiing out pamphlets and putting people on the spot in their doorway.

...or an organization that has done more to advance humanity in the realm of charity and faith and morals. The Church herself and the religion itself did not and does not do bad. Its the morons who have had power in the Church from time to time. Kinda sick of hearing about the big bad Catholic church, but I'm getting used to it too. I wish people could be a little more genuine and look at both sides of things.

Fair enough.

Well, the Catholic Church does not teach this, so I can't speak to what you mean by that.

I don't think you hate people who are religious as much as you love pissing them off by putting their religious beliefs down and ridiculing them for having faith in such things.

Awesome. I'll have to remember that. :thumb:

I'm guessing somewhere in Naperville... :)

Being a Calvinist, I'm also a very "Reformer-minded" protestant (heck, even "worse" I'm a Baptist), so I'm not very big on the Catholic Church as a whole either, though I do have some Catholic friends... That aside, I agree that religion has been used to do great harm, but it has also been used to do great good...one recent example ties in with the Southern Baptist, of which I am a part (in some eyes, I think I just keep digging a bigger hole...)--the convention is the 3rd largest disaster relief organization in the US and mobilizes to provide food, shelter, and aid when events like the tsunami and hurricanes happen... this is something that is difficult to do when you don't have organization...

I gave a simple view of what I believe in that regards in the short "calvinist" post to another user... I'll just leave it at that...

That's funny. :hmmm:

I would say you just described 90% non-church people I've ever met.....to a "T." ;)

Agreed. One example I have is I went to an Alice Cooper concert here in Omaha back in like 1986. There were a ton of people walking around handing out pamphlets to everyone. We got there late, after the crowd had pretty much all entered the arena. The sidewalks were strewn with these pamphlets. It was a very telling scene. It really made their efforts look like what they were, a waste of time, energy paper and money. There are more effective ways to minister to people. Sounds like your fiance (congrats by the way) has the right idea.

People who don't have the gonads, to simply and politely say "thanks, but no thanks." :shrug:

Why did the government create a "do not call" list?

Seems to me that not wanting to be pestered is pretty universal. Some people just don't get it when they are the ones doing the pestering.

How about a "no solicitation" notice on your door?

Are you equally crabby when salesman, girl scouts, a census worker, or a roofer.....come to your door? ;)

How could anyone be crabby at a girl scout... all they do is sale overpriced, fattening cookies that break even the strongest man's will power when it comes to saying no...

:evil:

Yup. My Purpose-Driven church does not go door to door- at all. No pressure- at all. They tell visitors not to feel obligated to give. They don't even pass an offering basket. There's boxes on the way out if you choose to give as a church member.

In 1999 there were 500 members. Now there are over 5,000, and they're spinning off satellite churches with the same idealogy.

Z

Ding, ding, ding!!! We HAVE a winner! :clap:

Yes.

I don't go around bugging people in their homes to push my services. the grocery store doesn't show up at my house trying to sell me cereal. The car dealership doesn't drive to my house to sell me a car. If I want it, we have a vast network of methods for me to find it.

At least with roofers I waste their time by making them write up an estimate before I tell them I'm a roofer too.

Actually, I have to say I'm not equally crabby to them. At least they are selling me a product. The height of my crabiness is saved for the people that come to my door to impose their beliefs. Bible-thumpers and politicos.

They are selling a product as well. It's all about the dollar signs. The difference is when you pay for this one, you don't get squat.

Ring, Ring...

Hello Kettle, this is Pot.....

Edit: Guess I should read the thread; someone alrady beat me to it a long time ago....

I couldn't agree more.

Do NOT fuck WITH ME at my house. That is my haven from the world and I will react poorly to any violation of that. I don't bother other people - they shouldn't bother me.

Well, you are certainly free to feel that way. Though, many psychologists would love to delve into the issues behind this whole attitude.

I'm no psychologist though, so I'll just leave you to your insolence. It's a free country. ;)

Right or wrong, that has been my impression as well. :shake:

What is so wrong with not wanting people bothering you when you are at home?

It's the same as disliking telemarketers, or even spam email.

Ask any nurse who deals with people who are terminally Ill and you will find that most people become very interested in God as they near the time for them to need to know.

Some of us learned early and have come to understand wht it means in our lives.

Most people understand the theory of 'covering all your bases', just in case.

I always tell my Calvanist baptist friends that I tried to believe and trust but god told me I wasn't elected so go ahead and enjoy the time you have.

If I have issues it's simply that I don't consider every idiot on the street my buddy. A stranger is not welcome to come to my house and try and change my beliefs or sell me carpet cleaning. Hell, a friend is even an imposition when playing that role.


Wanting my privacy doesn't make me insolent. Some clown ringing my doorbell will though.

Time to bust out my favorite avatar.

How noble. When their ass is in a sling they start trying to cover it.

Personally, I'm most geared towards relational evangelism--just simply "be" a Christian and try to become friends with non-Christians, and then share the Gospel in life, deed, and word... But I'm weary about altogether throwing out the door-to-door/street stuff. I've seen a church or two where the attitude is basically: "If you ain't aknockin', then you're asinnin'..." and that's overboard, but I don't think we should go to the other extreme of doing none either...

It largerly depends upon the cultural context as well. I have a good friend who has done some mission trips to evangelize muslims in England. He said a lot of them, especially the more "religious" ones won't even give you the time of day unless you get up in their face and are confrontive--then they'll actually listen...

Also, here in Louisville we have a street named "Bardstown"--it's basically a mecca for post-moderns, occults, and drunks (or any combination of the three--really interesting street). I developed a little five minute religion survey I use there--in part to collect data, in part to try to get a conversation started. I've found that the vast majority are willing to take the survey--some take it and move on, most start asking me questions--I love it. One girl (who doesn't go to church) told me and a friend of mine that one thing that bothered her about Chrisitanity was that there weren't more people out doing what we were doing and showing that we cared about people like her... And I've yet to have anyone respond in a negative or an "f-off" type of way...

I'm all about the relational model, but I think we can sometimes miss some good opportunities if we chuck door-to-door/street evangelism...

It's not "wrong;" it's just a bit petty IMO. I suspect it's symptomatic of some deeper issue(s.)

If you really feel that strongly about it, put a sign on your door. Seriously. :shrug:

Noble or not, it is human nature.

"Be the beauty that you see." - Rumi

I think that's a great philosophy and great words to live by. As a Christian, I sometimes fail at this, but I think this is the witness - not to judge or force, but to just be what is beautiful and full of grace, because that is who God is.

I recently had somebody ring my doorbell at 9:30 a.m. ON A SUNDAY asking if they could do yardwork for us. I was absolutely dumbfounded. All I could say was "no" with an incredulous look on my face.

I can't imagine what frazod or jspchief would've done.

Heck, if I wasn't a believer I'd go have myself a merry time eatin', drinkin', and sleepin' around with the girls for "tomorrow we die"--but that's just me and my own depravity...

And I'm sure if your Calvinist Bapsits friends think like this Calvinist Baptist then they probably say something along the lines of: "Aside from that crap about God telling you to do that, that's really expected. But you need to repent and we'll be praying and hoping that you are of the elect..."

:)

Like I said, an entire nation disliked solicitation calls so much that the government implemented a "do not call" registry.

If I'm petty, I have a lot of company.