Hindsight 20/20: Was it a mistake to bench Huard?
 

I know. I know. Huard had a bad game at Miami. But in 2001 Brady came off a so-so game vs St.Louis as the Patriots fell to 5-5, but Belichick saw the whole picture, that the Patriots had turned around a 0-2 start by going 5-3 under Brady.

there are good arguments for either side, but i think, since Green has only really had one good game, and last week he stunk to high heaven, its a valid question. Would Huard have had 2 picks, a fumble, and a bunch of sacks?

He wasnt the passer Green is, but he managed the game better and helped the defense.

Just throwing it out there...

I dont think so. I think if anything, the rest of the team picked up their play with Damon at the helm. When Trent got back, maybe a lot of them let off the gas thinking he could just pick up the slack.

The one thing that Trent could take a pointer from Huard on though, is getting that ball outta there QUICK, when the backfoot hits on the 3rd or 5th step, wing it to the open guy. If nobodys open, then ground it in front of the nearest guy or sail it outta bounds.

Holding it too long is my only beef with Trent.

No. Huard got lucky and faced a lot of bad defenses. He had hit his ceiling.

People are overreacting to one bad game. Brady had a bad game last week, too.

There is a reason Trent has been a starting pro bowl QB and ranked in the top 3 for the last 5 years.

There is a reason that Huard has been a backup QB for 10+ years in the NFL.....

People on this board, I would say 99.9% didnt even want Huard on the roster openind day. Now question wether he should be a starter or not?

Fickle, very fickle...

No. He had a horrible game against Miami, did nothing against Denver and was part of that loss to the Steelers...

Seriously, as the OL this team goes. When we start playing musical Lineman, the QB looks worse, the running game doesn't look as smooth...

we were winning with huard then green came in and has thrown 5 picks. You tell me.

Yeah, because a horrid game plan and play calling had nothing to do with the Ravens loss.

Um.. no.

OH NO ! ARE YOU KIDDING ME, ARE YOU KIDDING ME ?YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME .... You Play To Win The Game, OK. You use your best players....... Herm Edwards.

When you hand it off to the same RB on 1st and 2nd down the majority of the time it's not fair for any QB to have to face 3rd and 8 all the time.

The person to blame is the guy doing the play calling.

It's assinine to compare Trent to Damon. Damon did an excellent job as a fill in QB while Trent was hurt. But he's no Pro Bowl QB like Trent. I blame most of Trent's struggles on the offensive coordinator. Everytime he finally gets to throw, the defenses know exactly where it's going.

I swear to God that this wasn't me...

but was Green that great against Oakland and Denver? Before the Miami game, didnt Huard have huge games against SD,Seattle, and at St.Louis?

And I do think how you manage the game affects the defense. Make mistakes, the defense has to be on the field more. Play mistake free, you have sustained drives, the D doesnt have to do as much.
the offense helps the defense.
The Patriots have driven this home to their players, like Huard, for years, the best example being SB 36. And Belichek and Parcells used it in SB 25 in the Giants win over Buffalo. Making your offense part of the defensive strategy.
I think this is what Edwards wants to do here, and in a lot of ways Huard fits into that more than Green.
It was the same thing in New England. Bledsoe was the Pro Bowl guy, the one with the stats, the pure passer. But even in 2001 Brady knew how to manage the game better, while still making the throws he had to when it counts.
Its not about stats, its about winning.

Can you tell Im from New England originally? Anyway, theres a reason the Marinos, the Mannings, the Bledoes dont win titles while the Montana's, Aikmans,Bradys, Roethlisburgers, and even the lesser QB's who have won do.
its not about stats and throwing the ball around.

I think they would have beaten Oakland and Denver with Huard. And had a better shot against the Ravens.

Just my opinion. I could be persuaded.

But to answer this thread, yes, it was a mistake.

Green has been sacked 13 times this season in 115 pass attempts.

Huard was sacked 16 times in 241 pass attempts.

Huard threw 1 INT in 241 pass attempts.
Green has thrown 5 INT's in 115 pass attempts.

At some point we have to hold Green accountable as fans, and I do...the reason we're not going to the playoffs this year is because Herm benched Huard.

Sorry.

Believer, I totally agree and have been saying the same thing for weeks.

Rep.

NO

Opening day is skewing that stat.

and opening day shouldn't count?

Green is a great QB...

But his style doesn't fit in our Hermified offense...at all.

He holds the ball to long, he depends on his line to give him time to go through his reads, and he depends on his receivers far too much, especially when your #2 WR is Samie Parker.

Huard was a two read QB, made quick decisions, and had no problem dumping the ball off to LJ who was averaging AT LEAST 8 YPC (don't feel like looking it up)...

So, until Green stops taking sacks and making stupid errors, it was a HUGE mistake to bench Huard...

Huard would have been eaten alive against Baltimore and you know it. Two reads and dump the ball doesn't ****ing work against defenses like that.

I wasn't even impressed with the Ravens defense...

Green, for the most part, had plenty of time to make throws...but he held the friggin' ball too long.

Their pass rushers outside of Suggs are weak, Kelly Gregg isn't any good, Ray Lewis is slow...

Green pretty much just gave those two INT's to Reed...both UNNECESSARY throws to say the least...

we moved the ball all game long...but as soon as we hit a 3rd down, boom, Green mistake.

The Dunn drop and the Tynes miss didn't help, either...but we could've very easily put up 20+ points...

And besides, you have NO IDEA how Huard would've done against Baltimore's defense...either way, he couldn't have done ANY worse than Green...who pretty much lost the game for us.

Also During the Miami game, if not one was open or if they are open down the side line.. Throw it to Coral Gabels...

can I borrow your brain pan
I need a coaster for my shot glass

Hootie, Hootie, Hootie, Where were you these last 5 years when Huard was 3rd on the dept chart?

Why wasnt you calling for him then?

I posted the drive chart after the game last week...all game long we moved the ball...and outside of a few nice 3rd and long completions, Green was horrible...

Hopefully this week, if we hit a 3rd and 4 or 3rd and 5 we can toss in a few draw plays...I rather see LJ get stuffed on 3rd and 4 than Green get sacked/throw an incompletion/have Parker drop the ball/throw an INT/etc. etc. etc.

But he wouldnt have had a fumble and 2 interceptions in the first half either.

the only shot against that defense is to not make mistakes and be opportunistic.

I agree that you cant heap it all on Green The Chiefs need 2 more OL and a WR. But some QB's need the perfect scenario and some dont.
Brady had Antowain Smith, Jermaine Wiggins, Troy Brown, and David Patten in 2001 and threw for 145 yards and won SB 36.
He allowed his defense to win the game by not making any stupid mistakes.
its an underated aspect to Quarterbacking in the NFL.
And Huard looked like he had learned it from Belichick and Brady to near perfection. He stayed within himself. Green forces things. Its not 2003, he doesnt have the same weapons. He needs to be a game manager with this personnel.

Terrible point.

The last 5 years we had Roaf/Tait/Welbourn and an offensive coaching staff that Green TOTALLY fit.

Now, we have a system that Green doesn't belong in...

Green would be having a monster year over in Washington...as a Green fan, I'd like to see the Chiefs release him and see him over in Washington being the Green we were all so accustomed too...because he isn't any good in our Hermified offense.

First off, our defense isn't going to win many games for us...

Secondly, we have Herm friggin' Edwards not Genius Bellichek...

So...I can agree with a lot of things, but probably not this. Comparing our situation to New England a few years ago doesn't make sense to me.

The reason I think Huard should be starting is because he is the PERFECT Herm Edwards QB.

Yes I do.

The Ravens went into Cincinatti and held a CARSON PALMER-led offense to 13 points.

Huard probably would have thrown 3 or 4 interceptions.

But with all of that in place, wouldnt of Huard excelled and produced better than Green?

ROFL

and he would've been sacked 900 times and blah blah blah blah blah...

The stats aren't lying here...

Green gets sacked about twice as much as Huard...and throws stupid INT's...

Say DB's dropped several Huard balls all you want, but he had 1 friggin' INT in 241 pass attempts.

The Ravens DB's never made any plays on the ball...the two picks Green threw were balls the friggin' Green Bay Packers would've picked off.

rep to Believer
keep Hootie busy here
and out of the game thread

I don't care to be a part of this debate any longer, because at this point, it doesn't matter in the least, and you already know where I stand on this.

To be fair, however, LJ's yards per catch was closer to 12 yards.

You don't get it...

It's not tough. I've explained why Huard is a better QB for our team about 9 times in this thread, alone. Try to figure it out.

:banghead:

and Green forces it to Parker rather than letting our playmaker make a play. Makes a WHOLE lot of sense.

(Or maybe he just can't throw it to LJ...he missed a wide open LJ about 3 times against Denver...he was wide open for a TD and Green threw the worst pass I've ever seen to him.)

I get it... but I cant sit here and just blow Huard every single chance I get...

He is on the bench. has been for 10+ years. And unless someone is in dire need next year of a 30+ Career backup, then he will be on the bench agian here or somewhere else.

Green is getting up there and has one year left. I dont see the Chiefs giving Huard starter money when he is a couple years younger than Trent.

So will all that said, He is a backup period.

The smartest move for the Chiefs would be to let Green walk and sign Huard to a three year contract...

When was the last time KC started a QB that they drafted?

They've always taken the career backup route...why stop now? Croyle, whatever, I don't think he's going to be any good.

Hootie, in your opnion it might be the smartest thing for the chiefs to do...

Once they hired Herm they threw smart out the window....

We have 3 more years of petty discussions until there is a new hope for the chiefs organization....

I enjoy the banter though.

No. Green is still our best QB. He's made mistakes, forced some passes.

Would Huard stood up any better against. Ravens, Denver, Cleveland... I have my doubts.

Huard is a great backup.

Really? I must have missed that.

When was the last time the Chiefs drafted a NFL starter quality QB?

Peterson drafted Gannon against Marty's wishes
let's get this started

Gannon was a free agent from Minnesota....

Very good point!

Croyle might be, but like you said, we have a history of drafting QB's....

Maybe we ought to unload Green, Huard, Croyle and trade up to get someone like Brady Quinn and just start over?

yeah, we're going to somehow move from #20 to #1...

I'm high on Croyle.

He has a strong, accurate arm, and the kind of toughness in the pocket that teammates respect.

We are going ot have to rebuild the OL this year as well. So why not? Just unload and rebuild. Teams are doing it each year. Trade some popular players for picks. Hit the free agent market hard for OL/DL people and continue the youth movement.

3 years from now we all could be worshipping Herm and enjoying success of a solid team. Or we can be sitting here whinning about it just like this year.

Who knows?

You don't unload a rookie QB with some promise.
You rebuild the O-Line so that he has some protection when he gets his opportunity.

It's so true. If I had a dollar for every person who was shouting "PUT IN HUARD" while things slipped away in Cleveland... well, actually, I'd be broke. Nevermind.

I didnt mean unload Coryle, He is part of the much needed youth movement.....

QB play can be blamed as the primary reason for 2 losses this season. Miami and Baltimore. One with each QB. I don't really think the reason we are losing is because Green is playing over Huard. In Cleveland he passed like the Trent of old with a QB rating of 129.3 for the game.

I think the biggest problem is, somewhere, somehow in every game, certain groups - not always the same groups - inconsistent play kills us.

1. Cinnci - O Line play was horrible and the D was impotent against the no huddle

2. Denver - It's always tough in Denver and Huard was starting his first game. If LJ hadn't fumbled in the red-zone things could have been a lot different.

3. Pittsburgh - Probably the most complete meltdown from the coaching staff all the way down to the towel boy. From now on leave the Lingerie models alone on sat night guys!

4. Miami - Huard may have ended up with 201 yards, but he still had a QB rating of 57. But it wasn't just his fault, he can't help his recievers had the dropsies and Dancin' Dante fumbled.

5. Cleveland - What happened to our D? What happened to our D??? Did you all forget how to play or did some highschoolers steal your uni's and play in your spot? Hermy, when you have the ball with ANY time left on the clock, get the ball down the field - and what do you have to lose by letting Tynes at least TRY a 60 yarder for the W instead of throwing to Tony at the hash-marks with 5 seconds to go? And O, when you win the toss, YOU HAVE GOT TO MOVE THE BALL DOWNFIELD!!! Last but not least, Herm, if you think we can't win, DON'T SHARE THAT UNTIL AFTER THE GAME!!! The last thing the team needs is to get the idea from the HC that they can't win.

6. Baltimore - Trent, we really could have done without the INTs. Yeah, I know the ball was tipped, but if you had gotten it down it Tony wouldn't have had to reach. Solari, you can't be so predictable against a D like Baltimore. Mix it up man! Run, Run, Pass, Punt ain't gonna work. It's OK to pass on first down. It's OK to go deep once in a while. If Herm says it isn't, do it anyway.


If all units played at the level each has achieved in games this year without the mistakes, we can beat anyone - with either Green or Huard.

Trent only had 4 TD passes in that game. He should have had more. I mean, c'mon.

Ok?

He also threw a pick that ended up being pretty costly while they were in field goal range. A jump ball to Kris Wilson on 2nd down? Good decision.

He also fumbled the ball towards the end of regulation...should've lost the game right there.

Hootie, If we see the probelm and know that Huard is our best chance for winning. Why is Herm sticking with Trent?

It's pretty telling that you would lump yourself with a religious troll whose entire schtick is staying with a belief in the face of overwhelming empirical evidence.

Herm changed from Huard to Green because GOD told him to.

I have no idea who this guy is...

But the 'overwhelming empirical evidence' is bullshit.

I've posted all the 'evidence' needed for this debate.

I'll post one more...

Huard 5-3
Green 2-3

Religious talk in a football thread? How unseemly Hummus. Pehaps you can take your anti-christian hatred to another didcussion board.

you suck Neal

No, you haven't. Huard faced shitty defenses early in the year when LJ wasn't yet wearing down. He didn't have to do anything. After game 2, he had a cohesive O-line until Waters went down, and then he shit the bed against the Dolphins. Green has had injuries to his o-line factor in to every game he has played this year. He's also faced better defenses with worse playcalling. Another thing Huard had going for him was Green's input during the game, which helped to mitigate the incompetence of Solari in calling a game.

ROFL

Green's been sacked about twice as much, has thrown 4 more picks in 130 less attempts, and his the same amount of losses and three less wins...

ANYTHING ELSE?

yeah, but Green was great in one of his four starts!! and passing yardage IS what gets you to the Super Bowl., right.

*sorry, i think I was sarcastic.

you doubt GOD's will?

Yeah, Huard would have had about 6 more picks had people actually been able to catch the balls that hit them right in the chest.

ROFL

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

This is too funny.

AND THE CHIEFS WOULD BE UNDEFEATED IF THEY'D JUST SCORE MORE POINTS THAN THEIR OPPONENTS EVERY WEEK!!!

more religion on the football thread? You hate God so much you have to spout off in a thread about Damon Huard?
How sad.

This is why your opinion is completely irrelevant to everyone on this board. You are completely absent from reality. Go watch tape of the Rams game again.

I'm absent from reality!??!?!

I'm not the one overrating Trent Green. He's not a pro bowl caliber QB in this offense, not even close...I'd take Chad friggin' Pennington over Green in this offense.

Herm is a religious man ..... GOD told him to start Green.




you don't believe in the word of GOD?

Wow....

Just wow.

I will give you this Hootie, Your pledge and honor to Huard are second to none...

I dont think I have seen anyone in recent memory so dedicated and true to one player as you are Huard.

For that, I respect your thoughts and comments.

It's somewhat reminiscent of Joseph Goebbels proclaiming the war for Germany was still winnable when the Russians were shelling Berlin.

:clap: ROFL

hahahahaha

Every Chiefs fan gives Green a pass.

That's fine.

I'm glad you're all so loyal...

That being said...we can thank his inability to get rid of the football as part of the reason we won't be a playoff team once again!

wow, this is how you talk football? start losing the debate so you start ripping peoples religious beliefs? Kind of shows your character.

Notice to all Chiefs fans: If you are a Christian be aware that Hummus and Laz will start ripping you if you share a football opinion.

who says i'm ripping anything

GOD told Herm to start Green .....



you don't believe?

Yep and the fact that Huard pissed down his pants in Miami...

The fact that Herm very rarely puts us in a position to win the game.

The fact that we run a cover 2 with no visable pass rush from the defensive line.

The face that our OL is patch work at best.

The fact that we have piss poor game management problems.

Should we continue? Trent hasnt been the Trent of the past this year, Yes this is true. Guess what? The Chiefs are still a middle of the pack football team and to say Trent is the only reason we arent going to the playoffs, is pretty weak... Get your Huard blinders off and look at the over all picture...

Green's better than Huard but when the Oline isn't good it's a serious problem for Green.

I think anyone who watches the Chiefs knows if Green plays 16 games behind a bad line he's going to be one of the most sacked QB's because he does hold the ball forever. Pressure disrupts all QB's but it really ****s with Trent hard. If his feet aren't perfect he throws horrid passes that flutter and are inaccurate.....unless you have an all word line Trent Green is going to get sacked alot and throw alot if INT's that's just how it is.

I shall defend Field Marshall Huard to the end Mien Fuhrer!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...itleryouth.jpg

Read my post again, cock...I said he was part of the reason. PART.