Patriots are confusing me
 

What is the deal with Welker? What is it about Welker that is (a) worth the contract and (b) worth a 2nd round pick if MIA doesn't match?

<A name=378945>Patriots | Welker update
Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:29:38 -0800
Dan Pires, of The Standard-Times, reports the offer sheet the New England Patriots signed restricted free agent WR Wes Welker (Dolphins) is a seven-year, $38 million offer, according to sources close to the situation. The Patriots would have to give up a second-round draft pick to the Miami Dolphins should the Dolphins decline to match the offer.

Maybe they like that he can do like 50 different things.

Who knows they're also interested in Randy Moss.

holy schnikey! :eek:


it's called people have too much cap room for their own good and it's making them insane in the membrane.


best to just avoid this year's free agency .... at least until late.

Yeah, he's a decent return guy and I'm sure Tom Brady could help him put up some better numbers than he did in Miami as a WR, but $38 million and a 2nd round pick is outrageous.

Hey he can also kick off.........and kick Fg's!

I need Amnorix to talk about the greatness of this move.

I know, doesn't this sound so anti-Billy B.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...nfl/index.html

The Patriots have shown interest in dealing for Randy Moss. A source said Bill Belichick believes he could motivate Moss to play and that he'd have the locker room support system to back him up, thanks to high-character veterans like Tom Brady, Richard Seymour and Rodney Harrison.
-- Boston Herald

Well.....worked with Corey Dillon he semed anti BB, they really need a WR so I can see why they'd be interested.

The one that gets me is the supposed interest in Moss. I saw that halfway through a rep in the gym. I damm near killed myself.

If there's anyone who I couldn't envision playing for BB it's Moss. That HAS to be pure speculation.

Moss said in an interview he just wants to play for a team that wins now.....so who knows he might be a different player for them.

It's a poison pill contract I believe.

All the so-called NFL geniuses fall back to earth

Belichick loves these types of hardworking, versatile players. He is a great return man and has turned into a pretty good receiver. Put him with Brady in a very good passing offense he could put up some great numbers IMO.

I would cringe if Carl did something like this but I have feeling it's going to work out for the Pats.

He's basically the next Troy Brown for them. Troy Brown was an integral part of winning championships.

That is the answer right there.

There is no way that the Pats are actually signing him for that kind of money. The offer probably has some stupid provision in it like if he plays 6 games in Miami in a single season he gets a $25 million dollar bonus. That way it makes it impossible for the Phins to keep him.

That being said, he has not actually signed any offer sheet yet.

Not justifying it, but NE does have 2 first round picks. They must feel that makes the R2 expendable......

It just seems a bit much for Wes Welker. If there is a poison pill aspect to the contract, nobody has found it. I am just thinking back to previous examples... weren't they made public?

I agree, it is a bit much. I was just reminding everyone of the R1 x 2.

Maybe that is part of their thought process.

Maybe they just REALLY like the guy.

Who knows.

No offer sheet has been signed yet.

http://www.boston.com/sports/footbal.../reiss_pieces/

Receiver Wes Welker is visiting with the Patriots today at Gillette Stadium. In addition, a source close to the situation indicated that there have been attempts to spark conversations between the Patriots and Dolphins, opening the possibility that Welker could be traded.

Because Welker is a restricted free agent, and the Patriots are visiting with him today, it was assumed in some circles that the team would sign him to an offer sheet.

At this point, it seems the Patriots are exploring all their options.

While the Patriots could still sign Welker to an offer sheet, don't rule out the possibility of a trade.

This could be wrong, but...

<A name=378945>Patriots | Welker update
Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:29:38 -0800Dan Pires, of The Standard-Times, reports the offer sheet the New England Patriots signed restricted free agent WR Wes Welker (Dolphins) is a seven-year, $38 million offer, according to sources close to the situation. The Patriots would have to give up a second-round draft pick to the Miami Dolphins should the Dolphins decline to match the offer.

Yes, that is the same post as the original. It is what was believed over the weekend. But we have found out today from the beat writer's blogs that the offer sheet has not been signed yet.

Pats acquire Welker
The Patriots acquired receiver Wes Welker from the Miami Dolphins today for undisclosed draft choices.

Sports Illustrated's Peter King reports that the Patriots will give up second- and seventh-round picks.

Welker, who enters his fourth NFL season, was a restricted free agent. The Dolphins had tendered him a one-year, $1.3 million offer and any team that attempted to sign him to an offer sheet would have had to surrender a second-round draft choice.

Welker, who is coming off a career-high 67-catch season, visited with Patriots officials at Gillette Stadium today.

Welker joins a receiving corps that includes Reche Caldwell, Jabar Gaffney, Chad Jackson, Kelvin Kight and Bam Childress. Veteran Troy Brown could also return, although he previously said he is taking a wait and see approach to free agency.

-----------------------------

So they did a trade rather than worry about any kind of poison pill contract.

The 7th is essentially nothing, but I still don't get the giving up of a #2.

You don't? That's because you overrate draft picks, then, in my humble opinion.

He's 25, so he's what? 3 years older than an average draft pick, but he's already a vet (so he'll help NOW, not in 2-3 years, like most WRs do (even very good ones almost always do nothing as rookies), which is something the Pats need.

Also, 2nd round picks are far from a lock to be a solid, contributing player. The washout rate for 1st round picks is very high, much less 2nds, and even the Pats have many examples of this. For every Deion Branch there is a Marquise Hill or a Bethel Johnson.

Welker is a high energy, very flexible, excellent slot man with good skills on both offense and STs. He's comparable, roughly, to a Troy Brown, Dave Meggett, or Wayne Chrebet. But again, he's 25.

That's worth a 2nd, easily, especially to a team that REALLY needs a freakin' WR.

The money was phoney money. Now that we traded for him, we'll sign him to a contract that won't reflect what that offer sheet was all about.

He's basically an Ashly LeLe that can catch.

DT

Are you ready for Randy Moss?

No, not really. On that one I just have to rub my prayer beads and keep chanting "In Belichick We Trust"

:shrug:

I don't think I overrate draft picks, but I also don't think Welker warrants a deal that is worth $18.1 million with $10 million guaranteed. We'll see.

Thanks Pats for letting the Colts win the SB-I will never forgive you guys.

Can't say I was exactly thrilled about it myself...

So where is the Rufus/Gretz article about how good teams don't spend big money on FAs?

Would it help if I pointed out that the Thomas and Welker deals, together, are only a very few million more than the insane deals that the Browns paid Steinbach, or that the other guys paid that other guard (sorry, forgetting who) at $49M and $49.5M?

And that Thomas is less than half, and Welker less than 25%, of the nominal contract amount that the Niners signed Clements for.

Or, the fact that the Thomas contract represents less of the cap, as a percentage, as the Pats signing of Rosevelt Colvin in 2003?

Hilarious spin by the Pats homer but Welker isn't worth a second and seventh. Period.

Amnorix, that is indeed good spin on the Welker piece.

How many guys drafted at the end of the 2nd round, over the last X years do you like better than a guy who led his team last year in punt returns, kickoff returns and total catches?

And who by the way is 25 and a sparkplug of energy.

Finally, keep in mind that the Patriots are a team with very few weaknesses. Fix those few weaknesses, and we are not just in the Super Bowl hunt, but we are a favorite (especially as the super-talented Chargers have imploded on the coaching front).
WR is one of those weaknesses.

We traded a 4th round pick a few years ago to Chicago for Ted Washington, and won a SB with him manning the middle as no one else could for us. He WAS a key, and even though he played for us for one stinking year, I never regretted that trade.

:D

Ok ... comparing a trade for Ted Washington (proven) to a trade for Wes "who" Welker? You're going to serious pull something if you continue reaching like that. (heh)

Let me back up. Pioli and Belichick have won 3 Super Bowls in the last 5 years, been to the AFC Championship Game, losing in the final minute another time, and went to the playoffs losing in the 2nd round another year. 6 years, 5 playoffs, never a one-and-done, and 3 Superbowls.

What have you done to prove your NFL bona fides so you can tell me why they're wrong and you're right that they overpaid, or that the trade wasn't worth it?

Let me say this -- Patriots Nation, which has SEEN Welker play, and play well, against us and others, is overwhelmingly in favor of this. If Broncos fans think we got gypped, I'm sure I'll survive your disfavor. :D

The Dolphins. And catches aren't important as yards - 687. 10.3 ypc? Embarrassing. 1 TD? Haha.

You keep telling yourself it's a great trade.

Look at the Patriots resume. They are incapable of making bad player personnel moves.

What part of slot receiver/possession receiver, speedy little scatback guy do you not get? Oh yeah, and let's not forget he had mediocre QBs and an average-at-best (not even) offense to work with all around. Or don't you think he'll do a bit better with Brady than the Miami bozo QBs he's had to work with lately?

And he's a midget, like many Pats WRs. Name me the last Pats WR who had 10 TDs in a season anyway without looking it up.

Jesus...

If only that were true. But I think they get a VERY STRONG benefit of the doubt in advance, due to their track record.

Why do I get the feeling the Wes Welker will only be a younger version of Tim Dwight? I love the fact that he can play a sh*t load of positions but the way people have been blowing this guy up here on the radio you would think he is going to single handedly bring us back the Super Bowl.

If we sign Stallworth or Moss (keeping my fingers crossed he wouldn't infect our team with cancer) I won't mind having Welker. But if Welker is our best WR pick up or Draft pick this year I will not be the bit pleased.

Welker is just a cog. If he's another Troy Brown, Chrebet or Meggett type, then we'll have done very well. If he's another Tim Dwight, then we overpaid, no doubt.

We do need a solid #1 or #2 guy to pair up with Caldwell, I think. I'd rather have Welker in the slot as the #3 than as a #2 opposite Caldwell.

Unfortunately, it seems Chad Jackson blew his ACL, so he's not likely to be helping us early in '07, if at all. :(

I still hate thinking the Caldwell in our #1 :banghead:

Wes Welker... LOL. That's a Chief-type move, sending a second-rounder for that kinda production.

:shrug: Look at our SB winning receiving groups and you won't exactly be floored by the HOF resumes of them all. Teh Pats prefer a larger group of short-mid range guys who are quicker than they are fast. They just aren't going to spend either the high draft pick or the $$ needed for an elite WR.

Plus, perhaps they think, the elite WRs are often self-centered, team destroying headcases (Moss, Owens, etc).

Right, just trying to get a rise. I'm not biting. Please go find something more entertaining to do.

And yet, John Clayton reported this morning that Belichick has a hard-on for Randy Moss. Clayton said he didn't think a deal would come to fruition, but still ... very interesting.

I agree, but still...........Caldwell.......#1? It sometimes makes me shed a tear.

Good lord.

Welker is a 3rd year guy... he had only 7 games with more than 50 yards in 2006 and no more than 77 yards in any game. The NE method of late is to get a bunch of "guys" at WR and see which one produces from week to week. Not bad, but again... the $ is a bit out of whack to me. If that is a hell of a deal for Patriots Nation, then cool.

ROFL

You sure about that?

True, but I don't see a Deion Branch among the current group... no, not even the vaunted Wes Welker. I think Branch did well in one of those SBs.

Let's not act as if the Patriots only had "no names" in the SBs. I'm not suggesting those guys were Jerry Rice, but please... the SBs weren't won with a team of Welkers.

There are rumors that mumbles is going after Randy Moss for a 2nd or 3rd rounder..

What do you think about getting him?

Seems like a pretty lame move. I wouldn't bet against the Patriots when it comes to player evaluation though.

Please tell me you haven't just insured that we will send a second to Seattle for Jordan Babineaux.

I find a touch of irony in how doing things "the Patriots way" and not paying to keep Branch has resulted in them over-paying for Welker and courting a cancer like Moss.

You're going to make Amnorix's head explode... look out, you're venturing into unchartered territory.

they'd have been in the superbowl again if they had kept Branch...

For sure.

:shrug: I can't understand the Moss fascination, as it SEEMS out of character, but given our success with Corey Dillon, I certainly would be willing to give it a chance. I can't argue with our being able to use a 6'4" fast #1 WR, that's for sure.

Tall, fast WRs with good hands are very, very rare. The Pats have shown little interest in paying for them in the past, whether paying means $$$ or with high draft picks. To get Moss would require both, I would think. Again, no idea what to say.

Well, back in October...


http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...ght=randy+moss
10/10/2006

Nobody said that it was a hell of a deal. Just that the overwhelming majority of votes are ok with this deal, because we think Welker is a potentially solid contributor on both offense and STs, and helps to fill several pretty obvious needs. With Maroney being the featured back, we need a kick returner. He can do that. We need more good WRs, and he is one of those. He's young. He fits the bill.

Is it a GREAT deal or some kind of steal? No. Clearly not.

Don't know where that rumor came about but I don't see a chance in hell it happens and never have.

With Herm I feel we will draft well. The two questions I have are: (1) can we sign good players in FA to reasonable contracts (so far so good IMO), and (2) can we release garbage players with horrible contracts (Hicks, Sims, Wesley, etc).

It's all well and good adding some quality young talents in April but if they're playing side-by-side a bunch of trash like Sims it's all for nothing.

Seemed true at the time, but as usual it's not easy to predict the inscrutable one.

From what I heard from Patriot posters on another site..Bellichick got so pissed off about blowing a 21 point lead against the Colts that he is taking drastic actions..he was still whining about blowing that lead at the pro bowl..that's why they signed Adelius Thomas and are being so aggressive..and going against the Patriot Reign philosophy.

The Welker signing/trade I don't get..he's a decent kick returner..but to give uop a 2nd round pick?I don't know.

He should also be fine in the slot.

Ya, that Belichick guy -- he's going psycho. Lost his head.

Repeat after me -- Adaleus Thomas' contract is SMALLER, as a percentage of the cap, than Rosey Colvin's was when signed in 2003.

Here is a list of the last 7 picks at the #60 slot.

2006 Maurice Drew, RB UCLA
2005 Kelvin Hayden, CB Illinois
2004 Courtney Watson MLB Notre Dame
2003 Tyrone Calico, WR Tenessee
2002 Anton Paleopi DE Nevada Las Vegas
2001 Andre Dyson CB UTAH
2000 Brad Meester C Northern Iowa


Is Welker really that much of a reach over these guys?

3 very solid guys there. 4 who I don't think I've ever heard of.

Drew has a huge future...

Ok, I'll quit questioning the Welker trade. The defense is "recent history with R2 picks at that slot suck, so why not".

Calm down Amnorix..I was just saying mumbles usually isn't this aggressive..here's a Ron Borges quote to make you feel better. :)

That is one of the best Borges quotes right there. He just got suspended for two months for plagiarism. :)

Well after thoughts like that, his best bet was plagiarism.

If you haven't heard of 4 of those guys, you really don't watch a lot of football.

The only one who doesn't ring a bell to me is Paleopi.

Btw, just listing the #60 picks is a little silly. What about the #61, #62 and a few more?

Tom Brady was available at #60.

The whole thing is silly.

But here are a few more for ya.

2006
27 59 Jeremy Trueblood Buccaneers T Boston College
28 60 Maurice Drew Jaguars RB UCLA
29 61 Tony Scheffler Broncos TE Western Michigan

2005
27 59 Jonathan Babineaux Falcons DT Iowa
28 60 Kelvin Hayden Colts DB Illinois
29 61 Vincent Jackson Chargers WR Northern Colorado

2004
27 59 Sean Jones Browns DB Georgia
28 60 Courtney Watson Saints LB Notre Dame
29 61 Kris Wilson Chiefs TE Pittsburgh

2003
27 59 Alonzo Jackson Steelers DE Florida State
28 60 Tyrone Calico Titans WR Middle Tennessee State
29 61 L.J. Smith Eagles TE Rutgers

2002
27 59 Sheldon Brown Eagles DB South Carolina
28 60 Anton Palepoi Seahawks DE UNLV
29 61 Ryan Denney Bills DE Brigham Young

2001
28 59 Marques Tuiasosopo Raiders QB Washington
29 60 Andre Dyson Titans DB Utah
30 61 Shaun Rogers Lions DT Texas

1936
5 59 Tack Dennis Cardinals B Tulsa
6 60 Dick Smith Bears T Minnesota
7 61 Wally Fromhart Packers B Notre Dame

There you go, no way Welker is worth the Secret Weapon.

Point proven. There are some ridiculous talents taken just after #60.

Yet again: horrible deal.

Welker is Oprah's little secret.

ROFL ROFL ROFL