Why Americans Have Become Spoiled Brats: Blame Mr. Rogers
 

Good read. And, from the perspective of a teacher who's been in the classroom 16 years now.....it's exactly on target, as far as I can see.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1183...ost_viewed_day

Blame It on Mr. Rogers: Why
Young Adults Feel So Entitled

July 5, 2007; Page B5

Don Chance, a finance professor at Louisiana State University, says it dawned on him last spring. The semester was ending, and as usual, students were making a pilgrimage to his office, asking for the extra points needed to lift their grades to A's.

"They felt so entitled," he recalls, "and it just hit me. We can blame Mr. Rogers."

Fred Rogers, the late TV icon, told several generations of children that they were "special" just for being whoever they were. He meant well, and he was a sterling role model in many ways. But what often got lost in his self-esteem-building patter was the idea that being special comes from working hard and having high expectations for yourself.

Now Mr. Rogers, like Dr. Spock before him, has been targeted for re-evaluation. And he's not the only one. As educators and researchers struggle to define the new parameters of parenting, circa 2007, some are revisiting the language of child ego-boosting. What are the downsides of telling kids they're special? Is it a mistake to have children call us by our first names? When we focus all conversations on our children's lives, are we denying them the insights found when adults talk about adult things?

Some are calling for a recalibration of the mind-sets and catch-phrases that have taken hold in recent decades. Among the expressions now being challenged:

"You're special." On the Yahoo Answers Web site, a discussion thread about Mr. Rogers begins with this posting: "Mr. Rogers spent years telling little creeps that he liked them just the way they were. He should have been telling them there was a lot of room for improvement. ... Nice as he was, and as good as his intentions may have been, he did a disservice."

Signs of narcissism among college students have been rising for 25 years, according to a recent study led by a San Diego State University psychologist. Obviously, Mr. Rogers alone can't be blamed for this. But as Prof. Chance sees it, "he's representative of a culture of excessive doting."

Prof. Chance teaches many Asian-born students, and says they accept whatever grade they're given; they see B's and C's as an indication that they must work harder, and that their elders assessed them accurately. They didn't grow up with Mr. Rogers or anyone else telling them they were born special.

By contrast, American students often view lower grades as a reason to "hit you up for an A because they came to class and feel they worked hard," says Prof. Chance. He wishes more parents would offer kids this perspective: "The world owes you nothing. You have to work and compete. If you want to be special, you'll have to prove it."

"They're just children." When kids are rude, self-absorbed or disrespectful, some parents allow or endure it by saying, "Well, they're just children." The phrase is a worthy one when it's applied to a teachable moment, such as telling kids not to stick their fingers in electrical sockets. But as an excuse or as justification for unacceptable behavior, "They're just children" is just misguided.


"Call me Cindy." Is it appropriate to place kids on the same level as adults, with all of us calling each other by our first names? On one hand, the familiarity can mark a loving closeness between child and adult. But on the other hand, when a child calls an adult Mr. or Ms., it helps him recognize that status is earned by age and experience. It's also a reminder to respect your elders.

"Tell me about your day." It is crucial to talk to kids about their lives, and that dialogue can enrich the whole family. However, parents also need to discuss their own lives and experiences, says Alvin Rosenfeld, a Manhattan-based child psychiatrist who studies family interactions.

In America today, life often begins with the anointing of "His Majesty, the Fetus," he says. From then on, many parents focus their conversations on their kids. Today's parents "are the best-educated generation ever," says Dr. Rosenfeld. "So why do our kids see us primarily discussing kids' schedules and activities?"

He encourages parents to talk about their passions and interests; about politics, business, world events. "Because everything is child-centered today, we're depriving children of adults," he says. "If they never see us as adults being adults, how will they deal with important matters when it is their world?"

Write to Jeffrey Zaslow at [email protected]3

FTR, I think it started with the idiots of MY generation....friggin' hippies. :shake:

:banghead:

Nice article, Mr. Kotter. Thanks for posting this. I also found this argument to make a lot of sense.

Please note the respectful address, though I know you're way below my level. ;)

Dat burn, smart aleck! :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:




LMAO

Probably more apropos to blame the 80's and the general so-called "conservative"-based econo-cultural changes that took place. There's a whole generation of "me first"ers who grew up in that era are now raising (or at least shipping off to daycare...) their own kids. I'm one of them. We're as emotionally castrated as our progenitors, and we've been taught essentially from birth that the point of life is to make money, because "the one with the most toys wins" and things like basic humanity and compassion are weaknesses that should be left by the wayside.

As for Mr. Rogers, or Sesame Street, or that purple dino-dildo, whatever their impact, the ones responsible for it are ultimately those who plopped their kids down in front of them and let the messages get through.

If that's the only message you got from the 80s, you had a messed up childhood. It started, and was much worse IMO, in the 60s and 70s.

I wasn't alive in the 60's and 70's (well, okay, I was "alive" but not as it pertains to the discussion), so I have no basis of comparison. But it would be reasonable to expect that the 80's were a product of the 60's and 70's. That's how the world works, after all.

And that wasn't the message *I* got from the 80's. My parents did a better job than that (not that I don't have my own share of issues, particularly the emotional castration...). That is, however, the message I think most of society got. And I think it's only getting progressively worse, in the terms I established. Particularly the concept of absentee parenting.

Apparently FAX is the only one around here that had proper upbringing.

He didn't watch Mr. Rogers.

I understand, that popular culture and the media elite....attempt to portray the 80s in that way. And, I would agree to a point. However, there was a "backlash" of sorts....that lasted from the late 70s to the early 90s, which TRIED to get society back on track. While the S & L debacle, the junk bond scandals, and the who yuppie culture were part of the 80s, there were MUCH LESS a part of the 80s, than the Counter-Culture was a part of the 60s. And to me, the whole "me-me-me" and "self-esteem" issues were, at least to some extent, ostracized by the more "conservative" 80s.

However, the parents of kids....from the mid-90s to today.....largely, "came of age" during the 60s and 70s. While they can rightly claim partial credit for the civil rights and feminists gains of the day, I think they also deserve some significant "blame" for the narcissism of society, at large (but which is seemingly being instilled in the youth of today) that seems increasingly present.

My point is....things started to get better for awhile, but we've since slipped back into the 60s-70s mindset.

I guess this view, according to some.....makes me an "old fogey." But it's one that, in my experiences, does seem to ring true.

Here is a little thing on Mr. Rogers, RIP!

Mr. Rogers was a U.S. Navy Seal,

combat-proven in Vietnam with over twenty-five

confirmed kills to his name. He wore a

long-sleeved sweater on TV, to cover the many

tattoos on his forearm and biceps. He was a master

in small arms and hand-to-hand combat, able to

disarm or kill in a heartbeat

After the war Mr. Rogers became an ordained

Presbyterian minister and therefore a pacifist.

Vowing to never harm another human and also

dedicating the rest of his life to trying to help

lead children on the right path in life. He hid away

the tattoos and his past life and won our hearts

with his quiet wit and charm.

:thumb:

Snopes is your friend:

• Fred Rogers served as a sniper or as a Navy Seal during the Vietnam War, with a large number of confirmed kills to his credit.

This same rumor has often been applied to boyish country singer-songwriter John Denver (among others), and it's just as false when told of Fred Rogers. Not only did Fred Rogers never serve in the military, there are no gaps in his career when he could conceivably have served in the military — he went straight into college after high school, he moved directly into TV work after graduating college, and his breaks from television work were devoted to attending the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary (he was ordained as a Presbyterian minister in 1963) and the University of Pittsburgh's Graduate School of Child Development. Moreover, Fred Rogers was born in 1928 and was therefore too old to have enlisted in the armed services by the time of America's military involvement in Vietnam.

• Fred Rogers always wore long-sleeved shirts and sweaters on his show to conceal the tattoos on his arms he obtained while serving in the military.

As noted above, Fred Rogers never served in the military, and he bore no tattoos on his arms (or any other part of his body). He wore long-sleeved shirts and sweaters on his show to maintain an air of formality — although he was friendly with the children in his viewing audience and talked to them on their own level, he was most definitely an authority figure on a par with parents and teachers (he was Mister Rogers to them, after all, not Fred), and his choice of dress was intended to establish and foster that relationship.

http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/mrrogers.asp

LMAO

My kids can only dream of this type of existence.

Heh. Me too. ROFL

Except there are times when I think I'm way too nice to my kids. Hopefully, I'm finding a reasonable middle ground. All I know is they hear plenty about the importance of goals, hardwork, and not expecting things to be handed to them.....about EARNING their self-esteem. OTOH, I don't want to be a nagging Nazi about it. So it's a balancing act to be sure.

Thanks for the clarification.
Well that is kind of a downer! I guess the part about Captain Kangaroo and Lee Marvin is false too?
But I want to believe this stuff, darnit! :banghead:

My wife and I give them plenty of praise. AFTER they earn it. We don't gratuitously tell our kids they're smart, or that they're doing well if they aren't. On the other hand we let them know that we will love them even if they don't succeed.

Wow. That's really scientific.

What a steaming load. Mr. Rogers was great.

You want to blame someone for raising a ****ed up generation, start with the baby boomers. They're the ones who are raising their grandchildren too.

There has been a lot of research suggesting the ill-effects of the "self-esteem" overload bullcrap that was cranked out in the 60s and 70s.

To me, it seems this guy is expressing it in a way that reduces it to an anecdote that makes a lot of sense to some of us who've lived through it. :shrug:

I'm not absolving the boomers entirely.....but Spock and Rogers seemed to have an almost "eerie" alliance with the hippies.

And, consider....baby boomers in many cases were raising their grandkids because their drugcrazed idiot hippy kids couldn't, or wouldn't.

If you watch Mr. Rogers, you get to see how pudding is made. Then you go to make believe world. Unbelievable how Mr. Rogers can be blamed for having some kid wanting his B+ to go to an A-.

It's a beautiful day in this neighborhood
A beautiful day for a neighbor
Would you be mine
Could you be mine

It's a neighborly day in this beauty wood
A neighborly day for a beauty
Would you be mine
Could you be mine

I've always wanted to have a neighbor just like you
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you

So, let's make the most of this beautiful day
Since we're together we might as well say
Would you be mine, could you be mine
Won't you be my neighbor
Won't you please, won't you please
Please won't you be my neighbor

Oh look how he ruined America. Thank God he wasn't known as Fred! Kotter, did you let your kids watch the show?

Uh, no. The baby boomers were the original drug crazed filthy hippies. It's not surprising their kids abdicated, they learned it firsthand.

I watched Mr. Rogers religiously up until my parents gave away the TV when I entered grade school.
I loved the show but there isn't a time I can recall that I didn't think he was a nerd.
Mostly I enjoyed the pleasant tone, and the trips to see how things were made.
Never took a mindset away from the show, outside of 'it's cool to see how things are made' and 'nerds can be pleasant people.'

My kid NEVER watched it!
She was raised on a purple Dinosaur and the Big Comfy Couch!
Since she got a Presidential Academic Award at the end of this school year the programming she had worked apparently! Barney rokks!

Of course he didn't "ruin" America.... :rolleyes:

However, he and those like him who went off the "self-esteem" deep-end....who argued "I'm alright, you are alright"---even when they weren't alright, and those who claim self-esteem as a some sancrosanct BIRTHRIGHT....rather than something to be earned through hard work and accomplishment, were pushing an agenda. And it was an agenda that has proven, ultimately, to be counterproductive, IMO.

I think from a kid's perspective, you are right. I really wonder how many parents though, adopted that always-pleasant, never-criticize (even constructively,) Polly-Anna-ish rose colored glass view of parenting....to the extent they gave their kids an unrealistic view of life, work, and human nature? :hmmm:

It would be nice if there was an ASSKICKING reality show on tv for spoiled rich disrespectful punks who get the living sh** kicked out of them.

But that would be illegal. Would be incredible ratings!

That's why " I love you. You love me. We're a happy f-a-m-i-l-y!" works better.

You can still love someone even if they're not alright.

Not to mention the Sweet Sixteen show on MTV. Spoiled rich biotches.....

LMAO LMAO LMAO

Now, THAT'S a reality show I'd even watch. ROFL

Do you put a helmet and knee pads on your kids to ride a bike?

geesh, if Mr. Rogers caused all that, one can only imagine the article someone will post 15 years from now about all the toxicity caused by Rosie O' dumshit.

Take out the spoiled and rich and you coulda filme my family growing up.
My dad was a Sicilian tyrant.

this is obvious but doesn't go far enough.

We over coddle in the name of fairness. For instance I have 2 children, a 13 year old daughter and a 10 year old boy. If I let my daughter do something because shes old enough but my not son then my wife will get pissed and say it's not fair.

No it's perfectly ****ing fair because she's older. Yes it sucks for my son at that moment, and yes he's disappointed, but that's life and he needs to learn to deal with all of that.


Kids need to fail, they need to be told when they suck, they need to experience disappointment and perceived unfairness. They need to be exposed to things that prepare them for a potentialy harsh world because that might be what they end up in.
And besides, if they aren't their life will be ****ing boring and they will go through it depressed and unhappy without really knowing why.

But at the same time they need to be protected a bit and brought along slowly, so how slow is slow enough?

I propose the following litmus test: If you keep your kids from playing some video games to protect them, then you're over doing it.

Nope, and we had bb gun and bottle rocket fights and survived without any serious injuries.

Fukk, no. I remove the chainguard, fenders, and reflectors....and send 'em out on I-29 at dusk to retrieve aluminmum cans, so I can earn some beer money from recycling. The four of 'em can usually scrounge up enough cans for a twelve pack of domestic/six pack of imports within an hour. :harumph:

:p

(FTR, Helmet, yes; knee-pads....eh, no--R U friggin' kiddin' me? :spock: LMAO )

:toast: Absolutely correct.

We have issues with our daughter because she isn't allowed to do the same things that the older brother does. She just doesn't understand that there is a difference. There is a big difference in 2 years at the age they are right now.

Kids need to fail to understand how or what they did wrong. Building up a kids self-esteem for the saving of hurt feelings is totally bogus. They are going to have to learn to respond to adverse situations. Not everything is going to go their way in life.

Wow.

If Zaslow starts a cult, Bob Dole is going to sign up.

Must...resist...joke...teed...up...too...high...

Yes... :)

http://www.derbycitybmx.org/riderpho...-07-7102-A.jpg



8yo daughter in the intro in the blue, yours truly with the red cast on broken wrist, and 5yo son when the music kicks in:
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racing especially at the national level builds character, and there's no crying in BMX!!! :)

That's awesome. :thumb:

Motocross in their futures, eh? :)

Blaming Mr. Rogers for this makes as much sense as blaming Buck Rogers, IMO.

Whatever scapegoat makes you happy, Mr. K.

Personally, I think it's Gabe Kaplan's fault. :harumph: :p

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

The strong will survive!

Helmets? Case closed.

I do my best to offset this by whispering mean things to children in grocery stores.


"Psst, I heard that your mom is going to abandon you when she gets to the frozen foods."

"Psst, I'm a gypsy. You're going to get lost in the woods and die."

"Psst, that's not your mom. That's a crazy nurse who stole you from the hospital."

I think this sort of thing really helps to ground them.

well thats a fun fact I didn't know, is that really true?

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I guess not, see Amnorix's post 13. Kind of deflating, I had really enjoyed the read, that included him, Captain Kangaroo and Lee Marvin, probably all bull shit.
I was a real Lee Marvin fan, but never paid much attention to the other two.

Wow.... utterly baffled by Miss Rich Bitch in the above Youtube... and then I found her reply to that.... this can't be real.... nobody is that f'n selfish and spoiled....right?


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When I was a kid, Captain Kangaroo, Mr. Rogers, and Lee Marvin's All-Star Cursing Hour were all on at the same time. I enjoyed watching that f****r.

Jeezuz.... it doesn't stop..... will someone please stab this twunt in the face already?

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I actually at down Saturday night and watched some marathon on VH1 of My Super Sweet Sixteen. One girl was actually 15, and still got a badass Land Rover. It was going to sit in their driveway for a year until she was able to drive it. Spoiled rotten brats. One of them was EZ-E's daughter. She rented a mansion, and got some sort of Porsche SUV.

ROFL Lee Marvin was about as close being a real bad ass as anyone could be, even more than the Duke IMO.

Steve McQueen ranks pretty high on that bad-ass list.

Lee Marvin actually was the man John(Marion) Wayne pretended to be.

I don't think Mr. Rogers or ex hippies have anything to do with kids being narcissists. I personally blame it on parents who think their most important role is serving as their child's advocate. Kid gets a bad grade, time to head up to the school for an argument with the teacher. Kid not a starter on the little league team? Doesn't make all-stars? Time to call the coach, maybe complain to the league president. Kid get pushed around by another kid? Don't let him handle it himself, go see the other kid's parents. Maybe get a lawyer.

For the past twenty years or so, parents never want to let a child's failures be the child's fault. Someone else is always to blame. They become narcissistic because mom and dad never allow them to understand that they're responsible for their own actions or that there are some things they're just not good at.

And, FWIW, I think this behavior applies to most parents today, not any particular "type", or political persuasion. I also think we've been heading that way for a long time and previous political trends had nothing to with it, better or worse. It's just another symptom of the "me first" mentality that has become so prevalent. This is the "my kid first" offshoot.

That's a pretty good take, afaic. :clap:

I don't REALLY blame Mr. Rogers; or even the hippies for that matter (the hippie thing was more to stir things up than anything...right John? :p )

Anyway, I think you are pretty close to the mark with your analysis. What I would say though, is that Mr. Rogers and the hippies....were, at least, symptomatic of the problem....if nothing else. IMO, they were manifestations of this disease, so-to-speak. :hmmm:

Can't argue with any of that! :thumb:

I totally agree. When it comes to sports I honestly believe many parents are trying to relive their pasts through their children plus they want their children to become the next Lebron James or Peyton Manning so they can become rich and famous.

Don Chance is full of shit, and so are you.

Up your nose with a rubber hose.

I SOMEHOW missed this VERY insulting post. :harumph:

"May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your pubic region." :cuss:


:banghead:



:p

I didn't like Mr. Rogers as a kid. He freaked me out.

Fred Rodgers led a good life and left the world a better place. He was an advocate for children and good parenting. It's a shame that the WSJ chose to pollute the public record with this tripe. Pop psychology and partisan rhetoric should be reserved for the living.

Eh, Rogers was a decent fella. But he was WAY over-rated IMO. :shrug: