KU MU T-Shirt war
 

good lord.

Real CLASS there.

You know you probably started WW3 on this board with this thread

Kansas could just make a T-shirt with innocent women and children being slaughtered.

Am I alone in thinking this is a new height (or low as may be) of tasteless? Real, honest to god, massacres shouldn't be fodder for a sports rivalry.

Although, I do remember a rather deep disdain of Missourians from my teachers in school over this very topic when it came up sometime in elementary school.

Yeah unfortunately Harpers Ferry is not in Missouri so their shirts are kinda dumb..

Now using Bushwacker shirts is hilarious.. Its actually the name of our group that goes to Wizards games..

Not really no one is glorifying the violence.. They are glorifying Kansans getting owned/destroyed by people from Missouri.. People are looking way too much into this..


It is no worse then the Muck Fizzou shirts..

Of course I have a bias, but I am fairly confident our shirt isn't that offensive - in comparison.

John Brown was an abolitionist.
Violent? Yes.
Extreme? Yes.

Of course, in retrospect, both were needed to overcome slavery altogether. It's just Kansas has the fact of being on the right side of moral relativity to pin on it's chest.

Personally, I think it could have been a simpler response:

Scoreboard: 13th Amendment.

Wow, that's ****ing LOW.

So, they're not glorifying violence, just the fact that people were killed?

Huh?

I think they're both equally stupid and offensive.

I don't think they're equal at all.

One celebrates a town burning. Ours just celebrates a radical abolitionist. Further, one actually says scoreboard on the massacre.

It's like if we (US) wore a Scoreboard shirt with the a-bomb drop to a Japan World Cup game.

And I never said ours wasn't SOMEWHAT offensive. Just not equal.

jayhawkers=bushwhackers=all murdering thugs.

Our murdering thugs just happened to do something a little more famous than your murdering thugs. Burning Lawrence is just a little more prominent for burning the town of Osceola (which at the time was the largest/one of the largest settlements in the Western half of the state).

Just the logo of KU is offensive to Missouri

Lets name our school after a bunch of murderers and rapist.

A slight difference, flippancy at the willful killing of others is a bit tasteless. It's kind of in the same category as showing up at a Columbine sporting event wearing a T-Shirt with two dudes in trench-coats on it and the caption "Stay Down Bitches".

No just a lot of peoples panties in a wad.. The sole purpose of the shirt is to show Missourians kicking the shit out of Kansans and nothing more..

They are using historical fact to rile up Kansas fans which seems to be working..

Hell I bet money that a good 4th of Kansas students don't even know about the incident..

The level of political correctness that allows this to be a "big deal" saddens me.

Missourians burnt down Lawrence because your Jayhawks were out raping and killing Missouri women and children.

Agreed completely!

However, it applies 10000x more to the MUCK FIZZOU hoopla. Or [insert any incarnation of that style for any team]

Or make a shirt glorifying an attack by slavery supporters. There was a lot of bad behavior both sides, neither less guilty than the other.

I agree

Its in the past, and no I don't like the shirt

And that makes it all right? Let me guess you're the same kind of guy who doesn't see the bad in guys blowing themselves up on a bus in Israel. They deserved it, right?

Considering how many people go to KU from out of state, I would imagine the number to be consiberably higher. Very few people, outside of history majors or civil war buffs, not from Missouri or Kansas have heard of Bleeding Kansas.

It's not the purpose of the shirt that's stupid. It's fine to show teams beating up another team, but it's entirely different to glorify the violence behind it. It wouldn't have been okay for me to make a shirt with holocaust victims on it just because we happened to be playing Hyman Brand Hebrew Academy that week.

Maybe if the trench-coat wearers originally were from a rival school that did the deed, and then 100 years later somebody wanted to mock it..


Seriously a smart KU fan would just make fun of them back of Missouri being so consistently bad for decades.. or use championship smack..

But to get your panties in a wad and cry is just silly, you are playing right into their hands on pissing you off..

That's no lie. I knew someone from St Louis in the Navy and made a pointed crack about the whole deal with the voting, massacres, the works, and we got in to a bit of a heated discussion. The others around were completely lost.

No I agree the shirt is classless but most people don't know the history behind it.

Don't assume that it's just KU fans who are upset or "have their panties up in a wad and cry".

Just saying.

Lol I actually meant all Kansas schools.. But you are right...

I am certain that you are extremely under qualified to say what any smart person would do, KU fan or not.

There's a lot of smack that could be said without bring up a particularly evil part of both states histories. The vote rigging, the slavery, massacres, retaliation, all bad, bad stuff that ought to viewed a bit more thoughtfully. I like I mention previously it's not too unlike the Israeli - Palestinian problem although it's in the past now. A football games not really the place to dig it up. Lets just talk about how the inbreeding makes Mizzou fans' eyes too close together and their knuckles drag.

I see it the same way.

In fact, I laughed at the "Scoreboard" tag line. Witty. ****ers.

Seriously unless you start petitioning to get KU name changed you are a hypocrite.. The Jayhawker name alone is an atrocity..


Like I said before panties in a wad...

The origin of the term "Jayhawker" is uncertain. During the Civil war the members of the Seventh Kansas regiment, commanded by Col. C. R. Jennison, became known as "Jayhawkers", and probably from this fact the jayhawker came to be regarded by many as purely a Kansas institution, and in more recent years the term "Jayhawker" is applied to Kansas men and products, much as the word "Hoosier" is applied to an Indianian, or the word "Buckeye" to a resident of Ohio. But there is plenty of evidence that the word was in use long before the outbreak of the Civil War.

In 1849 a party of gold seekers from Galesburg, Illinois, bound overland for California, took the name of jayhawkers. Adjutant-General Fox (corroborated by other members of the Galesburg party) said the name was coined on the Platte River in that year, and offered the following explanation of how it was adopted: "Some kind of hawks, as they sail up in the air reconnoitering for mice and other small prey, look and act as though they were the whole thing. Then the audience of jays and other small but jealous and vicious birds sail in and jab him until he gets tired of show life and slides out of trouble in the lower earth. Now, perhaps this is what happens among fellows on the trail—jaybirds and hawks enact the same role, pro and con—out of pure devilment and to pass the hours of a long march. At any rate, ours was the crowd that created the word 'jayhawker' at the date and locality above stated . . . . So far as Kansas is concerned, the word was borrowed or copied; it is not a home product."[1]

While the Civil War-era meaning of the term originated during the Bleeding Kansas Affair, Civil War jayhawkers are to be distinguished from Free State Jayhawkers who fought during Bleeding Kansas, which occurred in the decade leading up to the Civil War. Some Civil War jayhawkers had in fact supported Kansas' admission to the union as a slave state, and had fought on the opposite side from the Free-Staters during the earlier conflict. Some of their organizers, such as James H. Lane (R), were nonetheless prominent abolitionist politicians. As is often the case in insurgencies, the conflict between bushwhackers and jayhawkers rapidly escalated into a succession of atrocities committed by both sides.

Well-known jayhawkers include Lane and Charles "Doc" Jennison. Jennison's vicious raids into Missouri were thorough and indiscriminate, and left five counties in western Missouri wasted, save for the standing brick chimneys of the two-storey period houses, which are still called "Jennison Monuments" in the areas. Lane and his band of militants wore red gaiters, earning them the nickname "Redlegs", or "Redleggers". This moniker was often used interchangably with the term "jayhawkers," although it was sometimes used to refer specifically to jayhawkers who refused to join units officially sanctioned by the U.S. Army. Guerrillas on both sides of the Missouri-Kansas border achieved some measure of legitimacy through sanction from the Federal and Confederate governments, and the bands who scorned such sanction were typically even more vicious and indiscriminate in their methods than their bureaucratically recognized counterparts. Even within Kansas, the jayhawkers were not always popular because, in the absence of federal support, they supplied themselves by stealing horses and supplies from farmers.

Jayhawker bands waged numerous invasions of Missouri and also committed some of the most notorious atrocities of the Civil War, including the Lane-led massacre at Osceola, Missouri, in which the entire town was set aflame and at least 9 of the male residents killed. The sacking of Osceola inspired the 1976 film The Outlaw Josey Wales, directed by and starring Clint Eastwood. Jayhawkers also were accused of engineering the collapse of a jail in Kansas City in which female relatives of bushwhackers were incarcerated by Union sympathizers because of their connection to pro-Confederate guerrillas. These two incidents were prior to the Lawrence Massacre in Lawrence, Kansas, led by William Quantrill and his band of bushwhackers.

I'm no history expert, but wasn't the burning of Larryland retaliation for the Hawkers burning Osceola, MO? If we're playing the PC game, shouldn't the glorification of the name "Jayhawk" be just as offensive as that T-shirt?

Is it just me or is anyone else looking forward to the absolute trainwreck this board is going to become next week?

ehh I saw worse T-shirts at the Kent state army game

Should be fun.. I am an Oregon fan so have at each other..

You guys should be the Missouri Bushwhackers.

FWIW, I'm confident Oregon is the #1 team. But, you know, LSU's gotta get their love apparently.

It's going to be bad. I've been happy enough with the Jayhawks so far I haven't felt the need to get stupid but if we take care of business this weekend, it's going to get real bad.

Missouri was bad... they wanted slaves to do all their work for them. Kansans are by nature, hard workers... Missourians want everyone to do their work for them.

Lazy ****s.


----

Missouri was fertile ground for the outbreak of guerrilla warfare in late 1861. Secessionists had already been organized to some extent by the proslavery "Border Ruffian" movement of the 1850s, in which Missourians crossed the border into the Kansas Territory in an effort to make it a slave state. Unionists were less well organized, but the populace was nevertheless deeply divided.

In 1861, the campaign between Union and Missouri forces rolled back and forth across the southern half of the state, until finally the governor, Claiborne F. Jackson, and the Missouri State Guard, under the command of General Sterling Price, were largely forced into Arkansas before the end of the year. Across the countryside, however, skirmishes erupted between Unionist and secessionist Missourians, and between secessionists and Union irregulars from Kansas who entered the state to plunder.

The insurgency flared in those areas where Union forces were weakest. As Union soldiers concentrated to fight against Price's State Guard and regular Confederate forces under General Ben McCulloch, few were available to occupy the territory to the rear. It was only in late 1861, as garrisons were established in important towns, that the weaker and more poorly organized Confederate guerrillas were defeated, and stronger, more capable units came together. The most notorious of these was that led by William Clarke Quantrill.

[edit] Methods and legal status

Quantrill was not the only Confederate guerrilla operating in Missouri, but he rapidly won the greatest renown. He and his men ambushed Union patrols and supply convoys, seized the mail, and occasionally struck at undefended towns on either side of the Kansas-Missouri border. Reflecting the internecine nature of the guerrilla conflict in Missouri, Quantrill directed much of his effort against Unionist civilians, attempting to drive them from of the territory where he operated. Under his direction, Confederate partisans also perfected military tactics such as coordinated and synchronized attacks, planned dispersal after an attack using pre-planned routes and relays of horses, and other technical methods, including the use of the long-barrled revolvers that later became the preferred firearm of western lawmen and outlaws alike. The James-Younger Gang, many of whose members had ridden with Quantrill, applied these same techniques after the war.

Quantrill claimed sanction under the Confederate Partisan Ranger Act, which authorized certain guerrilla activities, and apparently he had received a regular Confederate commission as a captain. However, like almost all of the Missouri bushwhackers, he operated outside of the Confederate chain of command. Some of his activities, most notably his massacre of some 200 men and boys in Lawrence, Kansas, in August 1863, appalled the Confederate authorities. In the winter of 1862-63, when Quantrill led his men behind Confederate lines into Texas, their often lawless presence proved an embarrassment to the Confederate command. Yet the generals appreciated his effectiveness against Union forces, which never gained the upper hand over Quantrill.

[edit] Dissolution and aftermath

During that winter, Quantrill lost his hold over his men. In early 1864, the guerrillas that he had led through the streets of Lawrence returned to Missouri from Texas in separate bands, none of them led by Quantrill himself. Though Quantrill would gather some of his men again at the very end of 1864, the days of Quantrill's Raiders were over.

Quantrill died at the hands of Union forces in Kentucky in May 1865, but his legacy would live on. Many of his men, including Frank James, rode in 1864 under one of his former lieutenants, "Bloody Bill" Anderson, who was killed in October 1864. Much of that group remained together under the leadership of Archie Clement, who kept the gang together after the war, and harassed the Republican state government of Missouri during the tumultuous year of 1866. In December 1866, state militiamen killed Clement in Lexington, Missouri, but his men continued on as outlaws, emerging in time as the James-Younger Gang.

Thinking it's stupid and "panties in a wad" are two different things.

Fair point.

This post is not without a good point.

:spock:

How many people died during the Muck Fizzou Massacre?

3045730495 + 1

Why would we want to name our school after a bunch of pro slavery inbred thugs.

I'm sure both teams will take care of business this weekend. They are both considerably better than their competition. Even if they start out slow because they are looking ahead to next week, both teams should win easily.

Who thinks either team can beat OU?

OU is vulnerable outside of Norman. Just ask the Buffaloes. Plus, the crowd in Texas is likely to be anti-OU regardless of who they play.

I think KU can. And I think MU can (and should have).

Having said that, KU has to take out MU to play them. MU has to take out KU just to get revenge so, it's really early to talk about beating OU for any team.

This year? Both. Neither. Who knows? KU even being in a position to play for a Big 12 champ, maybe, let alone talk of a NC is down right crazy talk. Mizzou was supposed to be good this year, I think they fricken sped past just "good" though. Them playing for a conf champ is only a little less crazy.

I do remember when KSU beat OU that year.

Which brings up an unrelated point, how can you go to the Nat'l Championship game without even winning your own Conference?

Actually, it's kind of humorous that the Missouri fans missed the point that they're second fiddle even when it comes to burning towns.

The high school popularity contest that is college football.

MU/KU both should readily destroy OU on a neutral field..

Lets say KU/MU beats OU in the Big XII Championship game, The winner will be in a BCS bowl obviously, but what about the Loser?

Do they go to the Holiday Bowl?

Cause if so I want OU to lose, and USC is likely going to finish 3rd in the Pac-10.

This means OU-USC in the Holiday Bowl here in San Diego...

While we're renaming things using historical information, let's not forget some of the original names put forward for KCMO, including:

Port Fonda
Rabbitville

and my favorite:

Possum Trot.

http://www.kcmo.org/kcmo.nsf/web/kchistory?opendocument

Suppose KC was Rabbitville or Possum Trot, what do you think the name of the Chiefs would have been? Roadkill? LMAO, sorry had to.

Ding, ding, ding.

You'll find that many Kansas "historians" have selective memories when it comes to that.

They'll damn Quantrill and his bushwackers to hell, but turn a blind eye to the events leading up to the raid.

I'm not trying to justify the t-shirt at all, but history bears out that terrible acts of cruelty were commited by both sides.

I'm just sick of Kansans acting like their shit doesn't stink..........

KU wins Big 12...ought to be NC talk.
MU wins...they go to Fiesta
OU wins...Fiesta

The problem is the losers will probably get jumped by Texas for an At Large spot in a BCS bowl.

We'll start just as soon as you guys quit asking for our money every time you want to build something.


:p

:thumb:
Nice. :)

After a quick perusal of the Holiday Bowl Wiki page, the 2nd place Pac-10 and 3rd place Big 12 play.

That's not entirely true.....

Only for stuff in the western part of the state......

:)

Aww shucks.

If either KU or MU wins out, they should be in the NC game. Beating 2 top 5 BCS teams in the last two weeks should bump them up.

I thought that, with the exception of the champ, none of the Big 12 teams are set for a spot, they're available for at-large but that's based on being invited by that bowl.

MU has that one loss though, I can't see them getting the nod over LSU and/or Oregon. I'm actually somewhat concerned that an undefeated KU wouldn't play for a NC, the jock straps of LSU and Oregon are mighty crowded.

My dream Holiday Bowl would be OU or UT vs. USC...even MU or KU vs. USC would do.

And if its either of those teams, and you come out here, see ya at the game.

I know you like it but if I never have to go to SD again, good. I wasn't fond of it the many, many times my ship stopped there to get planes. Just as I'm sure you would grow tired, quickly, of Kansas.

If you are used to whatever it is that Kansas has, then yeah I guess. I bet if you stayed here for a long time you'd realize how laid back it is for a big city. Then again, I could be wrong.

Yes, but LSU's loss was to Kentucky at home, and Oregon's was to Cal at home. MU's was in Norman and to a team ranked higher than either of the other two.

Oh I have got to get one of those shirts! :evil:

I loved going to Bushwhackers Days growing up in Blue Springs, Missouri.

how come I never heard of that? I'm surprised I never heard of that when I went to KU.

You should have been attending the real Bushwhacker Days in Nevada, MO, home of the Bushwhacker Museum, and county seat of Vernon County which was raided by Brown a year before he got all famous with his raid on Harper's Ferry.

Morton and his dirty, thieving Jayhawkers burned Bob Dole's home town to the ground in 1863, 3 months before Order No. 11. **** the Jayhawks.

Personally, Bob Dole prefers the official "Partisan Ranger" to "Bushwhacker".

Growing up I had no idea what bushwhacker really meant. I just knew Bushwhacker Days meant turkey legs, go-carts, and horrible, horrible karaoke.

Plenty of horrific things were done by both "sides" during that time. The shirt is a tremendously stupid idea, as is the KU shirt in response.