Star rips Carl and Herm over Sims
 

Rippin' Carl! Rippin' Herm!

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/590987.html

He dropped himself onto a chair in a crowded sports bar in Atlanta. He was surrounded by the hopeful, mostly family and friends. His father sat to his right, his agent to his left. A cell phone was on the table in front of him.

Ryan Sims wore a black suit with pinstripes on that April morning, when the group gathered to watch the 2002 NFL draft. Sims was a defensive tackle from the University of North Carolina. He was confident that morning he would be a top-10 draft pick. But Sims’ father, Ronnie, had heard bad things about some teams. There were a handful of franchises Ronnie Sims would just as soon pass on his son — even if they had a high pick.


“There are certain teams that you’re hoping don’t draft your kid,” Ronnie Sims says now. “And Kansas City was one of them.”


Ryan Sims’ phone rang. He flipped it open and pressed it to his right ear. One of the teams Ronnie Sims had heard about was on the other line.


Ryan Sims slid on a Chiefs hat and smiled anyway.


•••

The Chiefs need a sure thing. Six years have passed since the Chiefs traded up to grab Sims with the No. 6 overall pick, a mistake that cost the franchise and Sims for years. It is a mistake the Chiefs cannot afford to repeat when this year’s draft starts Saturday.


Whether they like it or not, reminders of Sims — and the pitfalls of repeating such a mistake — will be all around them.


They have the No. 5 overall pick, their highest since taking Sims. But now, the stakes are higher. They have two first-round picks and 13 choices overall. Coach Herm Edwards wants at least five starters out of this year’s crop, and he implied this week that some coaches and executives might not be around to patch the holes if they don’t get it right this time.


The Chiefs drafted Sims in 2002 because they thought he would be a starter for five, maybe 10 years. Instead, the player they thought was the sure thing wound up taking up space on the roster for five seasons. The Chiefs dumped him last year, trading Sims for a seventh-round pick.


“We thought we solved the problems for many years ahead,” says Dick Vermeil, the Chiefs coach in 2002.


The decision produced a residual effect that still reverberates at Arrowhead Stadium and beyond. The Chiefs still have questions at defensive tackle. The selection elicited criticism of Chiefs president/general manager Carl Peterson’s player evaluation skills. After Sims was traded to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers last year, the Chiefs were responsible for $1 million of Sims’ signing bonus, money spent paying for nothing but a mistake.


Vermeil thought Sims was a “can’t miss.” Now he’s a 27-year-old backup lineman who might have already peaked. He hasn’t started a game since 2005 and has missed 28 games in six seasons because of injuries. It started that day in April 2002, when the wrong team drafted the wrong player.

“It stunted his growth tremendously,” says Ronnie Sims, himself a former pro athlete. “Ryan was glad to be up out of there. He was like, ‘I don’t care what they give me; they can give me a jersey.’ He was just glad he got out of Kansas City.”


•••

A year after they selected Sims, the Chiefs drafted another defensive tackle. A year later, they chose another one. And another in 2007.
In three of five drafts since 2002, the Chiefs have spent at least one selection trying to make up for the Ryan Sims mistake. Peterson says the financial burdens are stiff for a draft-day bust, but the worst residual effect of drafting Sims was that the Chiefs paid him $9.75 million in guarantees and received no certainty or longevity at defensive tackle.


“If I could have gone back and taken that pick back and done someone else, I’ve got to say, ‘Absolutely, yes,’ ” Peterson says. “You’ve got to be able to live with that decision for some time.”


Drafting Sims came down to hearsay and a scouting breakdown. Sims played alongside Julius Peppers at North Carolina and was strong and quick — with 11 sacks his final two years. John Bunting, Sims’ college coach, sold Vermeil that Sims, not Peppers, was the star of the Tar Heels’ line. Some said Sims would be the next Warren Sapp.


“I don’t think there’s any flaws,” Vermeil said of Sims at the time.
The Chiefs had the No. 8 overall pick in 2002. It wasn’t high enough to get their man. Kansas City traded two draft picks to the Dallas Cowboys to move up two spots after Chiefs executives heard the Minnesota Vikings, sitting at No. 7, were going to draft Sims.


By picking Sims, the Chiefs passed on tackles John Henderson (No. 9 overall) and Albert Haynesworth (No. 15), who have combined to play in three Pro Bowls.


Peterson admits it was a mistake to draft Sims — “It was probably a reach,” he says — but says he does not regret passing on Henderson and Haynesworth, who carried character concerns before the 2002 draft.


But Vermeil says it might have been worth taking a chance on one of them. How could it have turned out worse for the Chiefs?


“If there was a mistake made,” Vermeil says, “we’re the ones who made it.”


•••

Two weeks before the 2002 draft, Ronnie Sims began hearing whispers. Agents were calling to warn Ryan Sims that three teams had reputations. The Cincinnati Bengals were cheap, Ronnie Sims was told. The Seattle Seahawks would be a bad fit. The warnings about the Chiefs were simple, Ronnie Sims says: Kansas City’s general manager was Carl Peterson.

Ronnie Sims says he heard Peterson was an unfair negotiator and that he tried to sign high draft picks for less than their value.


But then Ryan Sims’ cell phone rang, and he sat in that sports bar and smiled wide because he was going to play for the Chiefs.


“At the time,” Ronnie Sims says, “the kid was just happy to be drafted.”


Months later, though, the sides reached a financial impasse. Training camp began, and Ryan Sims wasn’t there. Then the preseason games started, and Sims still wasn’t there. More than a month after the preseason began, Sims signed a five-year contract with the Chiefs. What happened between draft day and signing day remains up for debate, and some hard feelings remain.


Peterson says Sims’ agent, Hadley Engelhard, made unrealistic contract demands and was “foolish” to hold Sims out of camp. Peterson says he reminded Engelhard that the longer a player holds out, the more likely he is to be injured when the regular season begins.


“Without question,” Peterson says, “his agent was extremely difficult.”


Ronnie Sims says Peterson was unreasonable and refused to discuss what the Sims side thought was an appropriate deal.

“He was trying to offer No. 8 or 9 pick money,” Ronnie Sims says. “If I’ve got stock worth $20, you’re not going to give me $10 for it.”


Sims signed on Aug. 28, 2002, more than five months after the Chiefs made him their top pick. Sims was overweight, and Vermeil told reporters Sims was unfit to play because he was “fat and out of shape.”

Sims started two games before he dislocated an elbow and missed the rest of the season. Six months after they drafted Sims, the Chiefs already had regrets.

“It’s just like buying a Mercedes with a bad rear end; it doesn’t run real good,” Vermeil says now. “But you’ve spent a lot of money on it.”


The elbow was the first of many injuries to Sims, who Peterson maintains might have avoided such a fate if he had reported to training camp on time. Regardless, Sims’ elbow injury started a chain reaction that led to more injuries, which led to a label that he was unsuited to playing regularly in the NFL.


When Vermeil left the Chiefs after the 2005 season, Herm Edwards took over. Ronnie Sims says Edwards misled Ryan Sims and lied to him about his future in Kansas City. When the topic of Sims was brought up to Edwards last week, the Chiefs coach rolled his eyes and said he would not comment on the former first-round pick.

“I’ll leave that one alone,” Edwards says.


But Ronnie Sims is outspoken about his son’s time here. He says Ryan Sims received substandard coaching, and executives blamed Sims for not being the team’s salvation. Once Ryan Sims was traded, his father says, his play and attitude improved. It took five years, Ronnie Sims says, for his son to settle in at a place and feel wanted — and that place was not Kansas City.

“They would tell you one thing, and then they would go behind your back and tell you something else,” Ronnie Sims says. “I don’t operate like that.

“Trust me, there’s a reason why people want out of Kansas City. It’s got to be Carl, I guess. It’s got to be something. Every guy I know who left Kansas City and was on another team, they’re like, ‘Oh my goodness, I’m glad I got out of Kansas City.’ ”


•••

Peterson sits behind his desk at Arrowhead Stadium and stares at a paper that contains some of Ryan Sims’ statistics.


Peterson leans back and reads aloud the number of starts Sims made for the Chiefs.


“Thirty-six of fifty-nine games,” Peterson says, dropping the paper back on his desk.


He shakes his head and doesn’t say anything for a long time. Then he looks up.


“I can blame it on player personnel,” he says. “I can blame it on coaches. I can blame it on myself.”


Six years after one of the worst draft picks in Chiefs history, there remain as many questions toward future drafts as there is blame for the 2002 draft. As a result of what happened the last time the Chiefs had a top-10 pick, some fans distrust Peterson and the Chiefs’ scouting department.


Peterson hasn’t forgotten what missing on Sims did to the franchise. Few will let him forget it. So all he can do now is sit behind a desk and shake his head at a decision Peterson admits was far from a one-year mistake.

Ronnie Sims says he had his concerns the Chiefs were a bad fit. Looking back, he says, both sides would have been wise to avoid each other.

“What Ryan knows now,” Ronnie Sims says, “he wishes Kansas City hadn’t drafted him. And I’m sure they wish they hadn’t drafted him, too.”

Oh, F**K HIM! Bloom where you're planted, you spoiled baby.

Sims still was a fat lazy POS that was a bust...if he is so great he'll break into that bucs starting lineup.

I do agree that carl is the biggest POS in the NFL or atleast top 5

This is a No Shit captain obvious article

Yeah, but it's funny hearing Ronnie Sims rip the Chiefs.

He and Ryan are bitter as hell. It's funny.

Does Ronnie have an explanation as to why Ryan still sucks?

Yeah, if only Sims had been drafted by someone else, he would have been a superstar!

If only Carl wasn't cheap, then Ryan would have been all pro! Dammit Carl! :cuss:

Amazing how Ronnie Sims even gets a voice, i have never heard his name till today

I'd feel proud my fat pos son earned millions by stuffing his face and having a torn vag....

taught your son not to earn anything and you'll be lucky when a dumbass comes your way and hands you a ton of $$$

Sims was a 1st rounder, Allen was a 4th rounder. Which one made the best of their situation? Which one is now the highest paid defensive player in NFL history? Which one showed up to camp looking like Fat Albert?

Carl is horrible for many reasons, but Sims has nobody to blame but himself for his pathetic, pathetic, washout.

I don't feel sorry for them, the guy is rich and didn't do jack shit

I wonder if Kent Babb will get some backlash over this. The last time someone insinuated Herm was a liar Herm got right in the guy's face. It was some radio dude.

Ok in fairness here signing the 6th pick and a 4th round pick are totally different. If Carl really was lowballing him he shouldn't have signed, you don't take less than you should get just to be on time, that's on the team for lowballing offers.

Daddy wants money for his seed. Daddy, Daddy, Daddy! Blah, f'in Blah, f'in Blah!!!!!!

Thankless bitches, we're glad you're gone!

Eh, he could have signed for a little less than what he and his agent considered "market value" and still been an instant millionaire. He also could have worked out and been in playing shape when he showed up to camp. He's a perfect example of a guy who clearly felt he had "made it" the second his name was called in the draft. Game over, he wins. Actually becoming a great NFL player was something that would just be handed to him on a silver platter, along with more money. What a life.

Say what you want about Sims, but in his defense he did have more interceptions than Bartee :cuss: :banghead:

i love when "professionals" lack a sense of accountability and blame their lack of a "professional" performance on someone other than themselves.

These POS bastards.....have had their asses kissed since they were in high school when some recruiter convinced the kid and their mom and dad that the sun rose and set in their son's ass.....

And when the cold reality of a talent that was born primarily under the shadows of Julius Peppers rears its ugly head in the form of a wasted 1st round draft pick......the individual (and their head-in-the-sand parents) resort to blaming the organization that drafted him.

FU Sims.....look in the mirror (and in the film room)....you stink....you're not an NFL-caliber player....any paycheck you receive...and any NFLPA check you receive....make sure you send 20% of it each month to Julius Peppers you sorry POS.

Home run.

Considering how many players the Chiefs have holdout they have to be doing something he isn't the only one...happens basically every year.

The only part I will agree with is I think the Chiefs had and still have substandard DL coaching.

You should really come to camp. Yes, Krumrie yells a lot. But he also does a lot of teaching.

He really needs to stop doing his bitch slap test.....

I'm just going on players he "liked" here and in Buffalo and what he worked with and what became of them, I'm not overly impressed honestly.

Well if Tank and Turk bust you might have a point. But Schobel turned out pretty good...

He got Buffalo to draft Tim Anderson in the 3rd because he was good at his slap fight....

How about guys like Chris Kelsay and Ryan Denny? Schobel is the only DL in Buffalo under him that was any good.

Carl pisses me off regularly with his arrogance and inability to get players in camp, so I'll agree with the frustration at the trend.

As far as coaching is concerned, Jared Allen seemed to do okay with the DL coaching he received.

Some players transcend bad coaching but honestly when you have a ton of young guys and high picks and very few of them working out there's something deeper there.

The Chiefs ruined him.

He could've been a contender!

Maybe he should do some coaching. You can tell someone about things, and that is teaching, or you could show them and train them how to do things, and that is coaching.

I have never been to camp, though, so I am just posting out of my ass.

Pat Williams had his best years under him statistically.

He was good long before Krumrie ever got there though...

Weak article. I'm not quite sure how this is the Star ripping Carl and Herm, more like a fat POS's daddy airing his sour grapes. "My fat boy's better than he plays, it's everyone else's fault". Does a holdout explain 6 seasons of underachieving play? Does Sims playing in KC affect the fact that he still can't crack a starting roster? Did the fact he was holding out affect his ability to get his fat azz in shape? BS, I dislike Carl as much as the rest of them but this woe is me article wreaks of chit.

We heard the same stuff about bad coaching from Eddie Freeman. The problem, though, is these guys don't do anything when they get to other teams with presumably better coaching. Are they somehow ruined for life by the Chiefs' coaches?

I find it easier to believe that Sims, Freeman, Downing, et al. just plain sucked.

Wow Sims is a bitch.. He needed the Chiefs to motivate him to not be a fat lazy ****?? Glad his daddy is telling everybody how much better off he is.. Oh wait he isnt doing anything worth a damn there either.. The stupid **** has a 10cent heart to go with what talent he had..

$20 is exactly what your sorry POS son is worth, Ronnie. How's it feel knowing that the NFL would be better off if you'd pulled out and aimed for your wife's chest?

His whole point was to rip on Carl and to show how bad the former players just want the **** away from CP. He's been bad for this team for quite a few years now.

The fans want the **** away from CP as well.

Ryan Sims can die in a fire and I'll laugh as a I go to the port-a-john to piss instead of putting it out.

Seriously, you were the #6 pick in the draft. Brady Quinn held out last year, so did Larry Johnson. And where did we see them on tape? Working their ass off at a training facility. That fat fuck did nothing but lodge 800 bear claws down his gullet and then piss and moan like some jilted bitch whenever a microphone was put in his face.

Ronnie Sims shows that the apple didn't fall too far from the tree. You want pity for something that you could have earned but didn't have the gumption to try for. Like Gomer Pyle trying to climb the obstacle you quit.

Well then quick you slimy walrus-looking piece of shit. Get the **** off of our football field. Get the **** out of our city. We should rip your balls off, so you cannot contaminate the rest of the world.

**** Carl and **** Sims and **** Sims' daddy and **** 'em all so very very much.

Holy shit, this article makes it plain to see where Ryan Sims' complete lack of backbone and human worth comes from. Ronnie "Entitlement" Sims raised a helluva boy.

Yeah sure thing there Ronnie. I wonder what Ronnie will have to say about his tub of lard son after the Bucs cut him and he is left roaming the highways of Florida with a sign that reads "Will tackle for twinkies"

I like him already. Great first post.

Not really. DT is just a risky position to draft. Check out lists of other teams busts and their percentages of DT's.

Our DL coaching is just fine.

Krumrie was a pretty good player in his own right and I imagine he knows how to coach the line. I guarantee he knows more than the fans do.

Here. Here. Sims might be a lazy , fat POS but King Carl and his minions deserve the majority of th blame for this pick.

Carl Peterson: not knowing when to call it quits since 1999.

Seriously Carl, go away, it's embarrassing.

Whats he complaining about?? The Chiefs made Sims a VERY rich man.

i guess we know where Sims got his terrible attitude from.

but that being said... is he wrong? is Carl a joke? have our coaching staffs been a joke for all this time? sure they have. not that it should take the blame for sims holding out or having zero work ethic. but it's not like he is telling us something we don't know

From 1998-2002 we got Hall and Wesley out of the drafts. Having a monkey throw darts at the board would have had more success.

This is the reason we are in this predictament now.
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You don't understand...You're talking about THE MECCA...

Welcome, my observant friend. Here's some positive rep to start your posting career...

It's hilarious when you are a 27 year old man, your father will defend you in the newspapers like this is pee wee football.

Maybe Ronnie Sims should have raised a child that worked hard all the time, and not just when he was playing for his meal money like in his senior year.

Carl shouldn't have listened to Bunting, or Vermeil.

But you can see where Sims garbage attitude starts - with his MacCauly Culkin's father-esque dad.

The Chiefs DL coaches have been terrible, sans Krumrie.

Hairston and Karm were jokes.

Sims is a crappy player, end of story. We fugged up drafting him but it's not the Kings fault he sucks at his position. He benefited alot from Peppers. So much he looked good in college.

Fugg their sour grape asses. Ronnie wants to blame someone for his boy sucking as an NFL player. If Carl was the problem why is he not a starter now?

Whatever helps you sleep at night

It's too bad I'm late to this thread, and I haven't even read all the responses yet, so forgive me if I repeat when I say:

**** YOU, SIMS. **** OFF AND DIE.

What a piece of shit. Carl's a piece of shit, too, but Sims is even lower, if that's possible.

carl's a piece of sh*t, but sims is what it would be if that piece of sh*t ate a piece of sh*t and then sh*t it out.

RE POST!

Sims and Siavii taught us important lessons. You draft "The Man", not the assclown that looked good playing next to "The Man". How sweet would it have been for the Chiefs to land Julius Peppers and Igor Olshansky instead of Softserve & Spithood?

Sims was a reach, a huge reach thanks to DV suppporting his Buddy at UNC... So we all know Sims turned out as a bust. BFD, every team has a bust....

The more telling part is how people, players, fans, players, agents, players and just about everybody else is fed up with Carl... Actually to have a person rip the head and face of the Chiefs in the media like that is rather embarrasing as a fan regardelss of his sons ability to live up to the #6 pick.

I'm not defending Carl by any means because I can't wait until the guy is gone but reading this just makes me want to say to Ronnie Sims STFD & STFU.

Talk about sour grapes. Your son was just a no talent p#$$ie. Case closed.

"Once Ryan Sims was traded, his father says, his play and attitude improved. It took five years, Ronnie Sims says, for his son to settle in at a place and feel wanted — and that place was not Kansas City."

I must have missed all those Buc highlights of Sims tearing it apart down in Florida.

You weren't impressed with his 16 tackles and 1 sack?

Here is the head scratcher -

"Peterson admits it was a mistake to draft Sims — “It was probably a reach,” he says — but says he does not regret passing on Henderson and Haynesworth, who carried character concerns before the 2002 draft."

Peterson doesn't regret not taking Henderson??? WTF?

He's saying he doesn't regret passing on them because they were too risky for that pick. They both had character issues, and Henderson had some lower back problems that scared many teams off.

How could you look back with 20-20 and not say you don't regret it? Henderson hasn't had character issues and his back hasn't been a problem. Haynesworth has had character issues.

Outstanding - Now I bet it's finally safe to say what some of us said after two years, that Ryan Sims is/was/always will be a TOTAL BUST!

The Chiefs, desperate for DL help, gave Sims EVERY chance to prove himself. All he did was PROVE he couldn't play. The end.

QFT....

And Carl is still a embarrasement to the city of KC, the Chiefs and its loyal fanbase...

Regardless if the Sims are being portrayed as whiney bitches, Carl is a fuck tool plain and simple....

Because with the info you had at the time, you couldn't take him that high. Most had Henderson as the 4th DT on the board by the time the draft rolled around because of some really poor workouts.

I guess hindsight is 20/20, and I see what you're saying because Henderson has been a beast (I wanted us to draft him that year), but there were major concerns with him, especially at #6 overall.

exactly.... the busts year in and year out killed this team.

we need all 13 picks and better have 50% fit factor, next year 10 picks need 50% again.

that happens I'll think Krumrie,Herm, and Bill have earned some respect,

we really won't know about 1/3 of the picks until 2010-2012....

Ronnie who???

Why is Ryan Sims even relevant? I personally want to forget about the horror that was the Ryan Sims experiment, and to be honest till this article I totally forgot about the fat shit.

FYP

Thats more like it...

Because Carl is still the GM and people are still paying Carl and the Chiefs....

Why is Carl even relevant?

Geez, if only he had the same coaches Jared All . . . . Oh wait!!

Good question. I don't know the answer. They both suck if you ask me though.

I see where Sims got his bad attitude. I wonder if Daddy Ronnie is a lazy panzy that would let a sore toe keep him from work too?

FWIW, Carl has had 3 top 10 picks, and though he may have stunk on the last one, the first two were great picks. Also, I tend to think part of the problem with Sims was DV and his staff. They couldn't pick a D-player for squat. If Allen hadn't been a long-snapper prospect they probably would have blown that one too.

Rep. the long snapper part is probably true, they didn't find a diamond in the rough as #4 pick, they were getting an insurance policy for aging Kendall Gammons.

There are going to be some nervous top draft picks when it comes time for the the KC pick.

Long: "God please don't let my phone ring"
Gholston: "Please, please don't pick me"
Ryan: "If I don't answer the phone will they pick someone else?"

Maybe I'm zoning out, but who was the third top-10 pick beyond DT and Sims?

If Ryan Sims is so good, he should have broken into the starting lineup in TB last year...:hmmm:

I thought is was a good article. Plenty of blame to go around with both the Chiefs and Sims.

If you put all the responsibility on the player, then why do you even need coaches? The job of the Chiefs was to get the best play possible out of Sims. That entails recognizing his strengths and weaknesses, his personality quirks, etc., and then doing what ever necessary to maximize his potential. The Chiefs failed as an organization in that regard.

yeah as if Dungver is in great shape :rolleyes: