Draft Analysis: Croyle Undisputed #1 QB?
 

So does this mean Croyle is Herm's guy?
After all the speculation and coveting of Brohm and Ryan and others, KC did not draft a QB (through the 6th rd).

What do you think? From my foxhole, it looks like Herm/Gailey are willing to go into 2008 with Croyle at #1 on the depth chart.

As long as it's not Huard.

#1 punching bag for this year. I honestly hope he pulls it off though really. One thing we wont have to worry as much about next year... but I think we are going to have to continue our search for the next guy

By 2010, the Chiefs will have a new starting QB and RB.

You haven't heard? They're bringing Jeff George out of retirement.

I don't think there ever was a question as to if Croyle would go into the season at QB1, the question was would they draft someone to push him or as a fallback in case Croyle doesn't develop.

I think they like Thigpen and he is option #2.


Time will tell if we screwed the pooch not drafting a QB.

I believe the best thing to happen to Croyle since Kelly is Chan Gailey. He really knows how to wring max talent from his rosters.

Just means they didn't like these QB's...

Yes, he will be. He's too frail and his accuracy has looked poor at times but were going to be bad this year so there isn't any reason not to give him another chance.

edit: I shouldn't even say "another" chance. Even this year may be tough. If we really do start guys like Albert at LT there could be missed blocks and assignments and just guys flat out getting beat. We'd be possibly putting 3 new guys and 2 rookies into the line. Both of the rookies would be playing out of their regular position. eek

oh noes double negative!

I'd say yes. The guy put us into position to win 3 or 4 games in his limited time last season. Bears, Colts, Jets, and one other one that escapes me right this moment. Other players or units let the team down... not Croyle.

And yes I was campaining for Ryan, but mostly because never in my wildest dreams did I figure Dorsey would fall to us at 5.

Shoot, the biggest fault most here can find for Croyle is they don't think he can stay healthy. We are about to find out it would seem.

Oh no. QBs were definitley scouted in the offseason. Pretty sure Ryan was a guy Herm was interested in.

It may be as much as a statement about the lack of quality in the draft as anything about Croyle.

My guess is they still don't have any idea what they have in Brodie (good or bad). I doubt that not drafting a QB is any more of a statement of support than drafting one would have been a sign they don't believe in him.

Possibly but he would have had to beat out Croyle in camp to be the starter and since CP wouldn't have him signed in time for camp, it couldn't happen.

The plan is we give Croyle this year. If he works out, great. If he doesn't, we know what we've got to do in the future.

Of course they were scouting the QB's. I would hope they scouted every player in the draft. It's their ****ing job. Obviously they didn't like what they saw in the QB's this year.

I think Croyle is being favored by the football gods.

3rd round pick.
Never a big gamer with gaudy stats.
Has the right amount of experience at the right time to grow with a young team.
Could develop a great connection with Bowe.
Will start in a run-first, play action offense.
Will not be asked to win games right away.
Has zero pressure from the bench QBs.

Hope I'm wrong about Croyle.

We better hope Croyle hits, because if he doesn't, the rebuild's set back another year (and by that I mean until 2010/2011) while we groom whoever we draft next year (in what may be an even worse class than this one...), unless we go the veteran free agent QB route.

I'm guessing Brady Quinn will want out of Cleveland soon.

I'm glad Dictator Carl and Herm didn't draft a QB this year... let Croyle/Huard go down with the ship this year and the next regime to come in after Dictator Carl/Herm are fired can start with a clean slate and build around their own QB.

I hope some QB's emerge or were gonna be waiting 2 years if this doesn't work out.

Croyle having to be carted away, during the Detoilet game with a WRIST injury should be a lasting image in the minds of most Chiefs fans.

Can you imagine Favre, Manning or even Trent Green being carted off the sideline with a WRIST injury?

That team will be 2 years into the rebuild, not exactly a winning formulae for a SB run. I think they have decided to build the 2000 Ravens or at least the 2007 Giants as their model. I bet Herm felt vindicated when the G-men upset the Pats. Old school maulball + defense vs space age pass-pass-pass and outscore your opponents.

The Giants had a #1 overall pick at QB and he had to ultimately lead the Giants to the winning touchdown drive in the Super Bowl. This is far from the caretaker, "game manger" type QB that Herm wants to go with in 3rd round draft pick Croyle.

I won't disagree with you there. Just saying that he and Gailey seem content to build the team around a Dilferish QB scheme and a lot of running. We may be selling Croyle short. With great weapons, a rushing attack ranked a little higher than #32 and an OL that is not ranked dead last in the NFL in sacks allowed, he might look pretty hot.

I think they would have taken Ryan if he would have been there.

I think they feel they wont be seriously competing this year no matter who they drafted, so they might as well give Croyle at least one more year to prove himself.

If he fails, then they obviously will be looking to draft a QB #1 next year.

We'll be in the FA QB mix next off-season, in all probability.

Seems plausible, tho I don't know why you would waste an entire NFL season on a guy who "might" be your QBotF...

I think the thought here is to give him some players to work with and a chance


Last year there was no chance to evaluate him there was no running game and were constantly playing from behind

Like I said earlier, I think Brady Quinn will be looking to get out of Cleveland someday.

Maybe, but Anderson is going to have to make a believer out of me. I don't think he'll repeat his '07 effort.

Would you give up a #1 in '09 for Quinn?

Once Ryan was gone, they had no choice.

Any other QB the Chiefs drafted, would have been no better than Croyle this year, so they might as well see if Croyle grows with this young team. At least give him a chance.

If he can stay healthy the whole year (doubtful), then we should all have a pretty decent ided of what hes going to be.

There were some mock drafts that had us taking Andre Woodson #1 this year. Anyone know who took him?

No. If Quinn gets on the field and looks like a franchise QB, Cleveland won't get rid of him. If he doesn't get on the field, we'd be giving up way too much for a player we wouldn't know that much about. The Chiefs need all the talent they can get; keep as many high picks as possible.

NYG in the late 6th

Thanks.

Up give up a 2nd for him now. But not a #1 without having seen him play.

Maybe, but giving up high-round picks is how the Chiefs found themselves in the position that they're in.

Bad drafting is what got them in this position.

Sims, Freeman, Siavii, Wilson were awful.

Id saying giving up a #1 for Trent Green worked out ok.

No way.

Why?

Additionally, Cleveland is under NO pressure to deal him.

Why would they?

If KC builds a great team and just needs a QB then they can go get a guy. They've done it before with Trent, DeBerg etc. The best thing about building with youth is their time windows all match in that they will all ascend and descend together during their careers. The only guys who don't match now are Donnie and Tony. For Tony's sake I hope KC gets good year in 2009 or no later than 2010 so KC can get him a ring.

I think the only way you can say it worked out "okay" is if the Chiefs would have won a playoff game, if not more.

Giving up the #12 pick overall for a QB that plays for only 5 seasons is an extremely hefty price to pay, especially when those teams were 6-10, 8-8, 13-3, 7-9 & 10-6. Not exactly impressive, regardless of who's "at fault".

I know everyone around here LOVES the gaudy stats but at the end of the day, that's all they were: Stats.

I wont disagree with any of that.

I will ask who the Chiefs could have picked in 2001 (QB) that would have produced more than Trent Green?

It was a good trade.

These are the guys that were @ the pick on the board (I think)

20 St. Louis Rams Archuleta, Adam Defensive Back Arizona State
21 Buffalo Bills (from Tampa Bay)[11] Clements, Nate Defensive Back Ohio State
22 New York Giants (from Indianapolis)[13] Allen, Will Defensive Back Syracuse
23 New Orleans Saints McAllister, Deuce Running Back Mississippi
24 Denver Broncos Middlebrooks, Willie Defensive Back Minnesota
25 Philadelphia Eagles Mitchell, Freddie Wide Receiver UCLA
26 Miami Dolphins Fletcher, Jamar Defensive Back Wisconsin
27 Minnesota Vikings Bennet, Michael Bennett Running Back Wisconsin
28 Oakland Raiders Gibson, Derrick Defensive Back Florida State
29 St. Louis Rams (from Tennessee)[14] Pickett, Ryan Defensive Tackle Ohio State
30 Indianapolis Colts (from N.Y. Giants)[13] Wayne, Reggie Wide Receiver Miami (FL)
31 Baltimore Ravens Heap, Todd

The way they drafted those years it was good they traded for Green instead of using the pick.

See, I completely disagree.

If the Chiefs had kept their first round pick that day, the shape of the team would have been completely different.

They would have been forced to either keep Grbac or find another QB in free agency, freeing up the #12 pick to add a player that would more than likely, still be on the roster.

The dynamic would have changed but not necessarily for the worse.

The bottom line is that the Vermeil era produced no playoff wins and left a team bereft of NFL caliber players.

See post #47. The way the Chiefs drafted back in those days, we were better off trading for Trent Green.

Keep on ****ing doubting Tyler Thigpen!:cuss:



He had a good day today.

That *may* be true but the Chiefs did well with LJ & DJ in the first round. Why they traded out of the first round in 2004 is beyond me.

2002 doesn't even need to be mentioned.

They had a PB QB on the roster at the time (Grbac) who threw for 4,169 yds, 28 TDs and 14 INTs on a team with no running game. DV's Ramifization drove him away. So they didn't NEED a QB in the 2001 draft.

I think all 3 KC QBs are sighing in relief.

So your saying you would have preferred Grbac over Trent Green long term?? Grbac pussied out after 2001. Wasnt that his last NFL season with the Ravens??

It's not too hard to figure out.

If Croyle can't take steps forward to show that he's an NFL-caliber QB with the additions of Albert, Cottram, Franklin, Richardson and a healthy LJ, then we'll know for sure that he's not our guy.

Assuming he doesn't do well, we'll have a horrible record and will be in a position to take a QB early in next year's draft or pick one up in free agency.

It's in Croyle's hands at this point. He has no more excuses.

Grbac had more talent than any of the QBs we had brought in save Montana. Yes, he was a marginal leader and not well-liked in the community. My point was there was a greater need at that time to address the declining D rather than the league's #8 offense which is where DV set about retooling the '01 Chiefs in the image of Mike Martz.

If Grbac stays, that offense just doesn't work.

Exactly.

Brodie will open up the 2008 season AT New England. It should get easier after that, but anticipate a merciless thrashing with about 4 INTs.

The 2000 Chiefs had the NFL's 5th best passing attack. We didn't need "that" offense. DV elected to retool the already productive O at the expense of the declining D.

It was all about the vanity of trying to catch lightning in a bottle twice. Grbac earned and deserved the #1 QB spot on the Chiefs. The whole Ramifization experiment was a failure and was totally unneccesary in my view.

Back to Croyle, he is in the best of all possible scenarios: a young team, a new OC, an offense that can only get better.

If i remember correctly, wasnt it Grbacs decision to leave? Thats what forced DV to go out and get Green??

Oh well, im done talking abut this. Im not going to spend any more energy on stuff from 7-8 years ago. Its pointless.

Yep. He was due a gigantic roster bonus and wouldn't renegotiate, chose to leave so he could play (and flop) with a recent SB squad.

Not to let reality get in the way of great fantasies like the Chiefs offense being good at any point before 2002, Grbac even being in Green's area code as a QB, team leader and ambassador of the franchise, or it being a mistake to bring in Priest Holmes because we had a great runningback already in Tony Richardson.

But I digress. If he doesn't 'get it' by now, he never will.

LOL, Grbac earned nothing. His own teammates hated him. HATED him.

But he had A BEARD!!!

A BEARD, goddamnit.

You're changing the subject. The Chiefs did not need to retool the NFL's 8th ranked offense or 5th ranked passing attack, certainly not at the expense of a D in freefall decline. That was all something Vermiel brought with him down I-70 from some other Missouri NFL squad. We all know how successful that was.

On the issue of Grbac, Wikipedia suggests it was Baltimore that cut him over contract disputes, not KC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Grbac

I really did not want to discuss this yet again. I was hoping to discuss Croyle as a winner in this year's draft.

Good ole pos Grbac. You know, he couldn't throw it and catch it at the same time.
On the suck scale, Grbac-kup was right down there with Bono. I'd take DeBerg over two Grbac's any day of the week.

But I have a question as it relates to Croyle. Are you people actively rooting for him to fail?

I don't know how it makes Croyle a "winner".

Because they didn't trade up to take Ryan?

Because they choose Flowers over two other QB projects in Henne & Brohm?

Brodie Croyle's on notice, regardless of who the Chiefs did or didn't draft.

If the guy continues to be injury prone and make bad decisions, nothing will stop the Chiefs from either drafting or signing a free agent QB to begin the 2009 season.

The organization isn't going to wait forever for Croyle to "get it".

Let me go on the record:
We should have selected Henne unless we were totally comitted to Croyle (which may be the case, I do not know). Croyle emerges from the 2008 draft unchallenged. I don't know how you can say anything other than he benefits from the 2008 draft. He should have a better OL and does have a much better OC who will simplify the playbook to get the kids on the field and make plays.

Henne may win the starting job in Miami or at least be the QBotF. He set some Michigan passing records and UM QBs have a long track record of success at starting QBs in the NFL. I'm happy with Croyle if he's our guy, but if there was any speculation about QBs in the draft, Henne was my guy.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...1/ai_n11763104

It seems clear that EG was due the money, but KC didn't want to build around their PB QB. So they ended up paying similar money to Green and also sacrificed a precious #1 draft pick.

Its all water under the bridge, but as the years roll by, its pretty clear that Carl was trying lure DV out of retirement to coach the Chiefs and that one of DV's prerequisites was the Martz scheme and TG as QB. I won't defend Grbac's greed, but the choice to unload a PB QB was stupid. Green was a very good QB, but give Grbac Holmes, Kennison, LJ and Dante Hall and I bet looks pretty good, too.

Lets put it this way if Croyle has a bad year this team will have the #1 pick..you know what that leads to.

That's actually a VERY good point, Mecca. I hadn't thought of that. Although next year's QB class is purported to be much thinner than '08's...

Yea right now it is.....someone may emerge someone may not, either way I can right now name off atleast 10 elite prospects for next years class.

I see us drafting top 5 again next year. If Croyle has even an average season, I don't see us drfating a franchise QB unless Clark Hunt gets directly involved.

we trade it for the rights to brett favre?

:shrug:

Before last year's draft everyone thought Brohm was the surefire #1 guy this year, and he barely made it into the 2nd round. So much changes in a season... some people will drop off and some unexpected QB's will probably blossom.

Either way, you still aren't evaluating Croyle or any other QB without putting better talent around him. You don't have to wait to have an All-Star team, but a team like last year's just won't cut it.

While that *may* be true, Croyle most certainly could have made better decisions. And there's no way he can run from his injury history (high school, college and now the NFL).

Personally, I don't know why Croyle didn't hire a nutritionist and hit the gym this off-season in hopes of putting on at least 10-15 pounds of muscle on his scrawny frame.

I'm thrilled we didn't pick a QB. Now Croyle has a season to prove his worth. If he doesn't, pull the trigger next year.

Yea ok guys I get it Croyles wife has a really awesome boob job, but her titties don't throw passes.

Green Bay took quite a number of QB's- if Brody has a bad year and Rodgers turns out to be fine for GB, I'd rather try and grab him than anyone in next year's draft....

Oh and hopefully the line is vastly improved to actually give him some protection. We do have a pretty large group of guys now, all but 1 is over 320.