It’s Herm’s defense now
 

http://kan.scout.com/2/754878.html

Everyone knows Herm Edwards was brought to Kansas City to restore the tradition of great defense. It was clear from his introductory press conference in January of 2006.

"If you’re going to win a championship you have got to have a great defense," Edwards said that day. "There is no doubt about it. Every team I have been involved with had good defenses."

Yes, it’s true that head coaches oversee the entire football team, but no one will soon accuse Herm Edwards of being an offensive genius. The Chiefs have spent six of their nine first-day picks under Edwards on the defensive side of the football. His primary mission as KC’s head coach has to been to rebuild a defense that ranked 25th the year before his arrival.

Some might argue Edwards has had enough time now. Jeff Fisher’s defense in Tennessee ranked near the bottom of the league in points allowed as recently as 2004 and 2005 and dead last in total yardage in 2006. But by reshaping his defensive roster (mostly the back seven) while Titans fans remained patient, Fisher saw his unit bolt to fifth in total defense a year ago, leading his team back to the playoffs despite a below-average offense.

Meanwhile, fans in Kansas City have also remained patient - the Chiefs have drafted 11 defensive players under Edwards’ watch and brought in a long list of free agents (Ty Law, Ron Edwards, James Reed, Alfonso Boone, Donnie Edwards, Napoleon Harris, DeMorrio Williams etc). The defensive coaching staff, save coordinator Gunther Cunningham, has been completely turned over from the Vermeil days.

When the Chiefs line up on defense against Tom Brady and Randy Moss this September, 10 of the 11 starters on the field will most likely have arrived in Kansas City under Edwards’ watch. Linebacker Derrick Johnson could be the only holdover from the previous regime (cornerback Patrick Surtain is another possibility, but there's a chance he'll be the third corner this year).

In fact, a quick check of KcChiefs.com reveals that Johnson and Surtain will be the only remaining defenders (factoring in the upcoming release/trade of safety Greg Wesley) from the Vermeil era on the entire defensive roster when this season begins.

Here is the point – this is Herm’s defense now. The cupboard has been swept clean of the stale fare of years past. There are no more Kendrell Bells or Eric Warfields. No one is waiting for Ryan Sims to turn into something.

Instead, we’re waiting for Tank Tyler, Turk McBride and Bernard Pollard to justify their draft position. We’re waiting for Herm to make good on the promise he delivered that same day he was hired.

"We are going to play defense because it’s important," he said. "I think especially in the National Football League in the months of November and December, especially when you make it in the playoffs, if you look at the teams that won, what did they do? Play defense."

Have the Chiefs been playing defense under Edwards’ watch? Well, no one can turn up their nose at KC's defensive rankings the last two seasons – 16th and 13th – but you know that’s not what Herm wants. He wants what he saw in Tampa Bay, the kind of defense that suffocates even the elite offenses and can carry a marginal offense deep into the playoffs, if not the Super Bowl.

It’s interesting that Edwards has built his current defense in that same Tampa Two mold. He now has his three-technique defensive tackle in Glenn Dorsey. The Chiefs see a little bit of John Lynch in Bernard Pollard. When Edwards drafted cornerback Brandon Flowers this April, he compared the rookie to the Cover Two corners the Buccaneers drafted during his time in Tampa – Ronde Barber and Donnie Abraham.

The Chiefs dealt their dominant outside pass rusher, their version of Simeon Rice (Jared Allen) this offseason, so there is still obviously work to be done. And more than you might think, when you consider those two months Edwards mentioned when he was hired – November and December – haven’t exactly been great times for Chiefs defenses the last two seasons.

During those late-season affairs (18 games in all), Edwards’ Chiefs defenses have given up 20.5 points per game and 343 yards per game. Respectable defense, perhaps, but you know that’s not the goal. The Chiefs want to be dominant. They want to field a championship defense.

Is Herm’s defense - full of his players, directed by his coaches, and the one he clearly must take full ownership of now – ready to restore the tradition of great defense in Kansas City? We’ll find out in November and December this year.

FRIDAY: Why the Chiefs might struggle to take the next step on defense in 2008.

so what you're saying is......

If its his defense why didnt you address why he continues to employ Gunther??

If Herm wanted a truly dominant D, he could have kept Allen (for a year) and let the offensive side suffer. However, he dealt Allen and that helped in the rebuilding of the line. It seems that Herm sees the whole picture.

Under-bus-throwage.

I'm honestly sad that I will never get to see Allen play next to Dorsey. I think that would have been incredible.

Let's not talk about it:huh:

If Surtain is the number three, I will sh** myself. Paying 9+ mil a year for a nickle is crazy.

I'm pretty sure he took a pay cut.

If Surtain is number three, it's probably a good thing because it means that Flowers AND another young guy (Patterson/Brackenridge/Carr) catch on quick and show enough upside to merit pushing Surtain to nickel...

Unless of course it means that Surtain has just lost THAT much speed...

Lets just remember that dealing allen is what allowed us to get Dorsey, otherwise we would have ****ed it up somehow by trading down, then ****ed the rest of the day up and ended up with a typical chiefs draft. Allen was our jesus, he died for our sins and will resurrect the chiefs.

If he is going to be #3, who is going to be #1 and #2?

Herm has said for months now there's a good possibility two young corners will start.

So that'd be Flowers and one of Brack, Carr, Barksdale or Patterson.

:LOL:

Forgot about Barksdale...

I know he played special teams in some games last year, but did he get any playing time at corner? Seems like I remember seeing him out there in the secondary a little...

it's a crappy blog entry now

ROFL

Replacing veterans with younger players is fine as long as they EARN their way into the lineup but Herm's problem (among many) is he replaces players before the backups have proven they can play. Go ahead and bnech Wesley for Page and now you gotta draft another safety becase you were too god damned set on having new starters instead of letting Page earn his playing time. Same bullshit he pulled with trading Dante Hall without having a kick returner and letting Kawika go without having a mike linebacker. This same scenario will probably be the case with next years starting center, #2 wide receiver, right guard, and obviously right defensive end.

Pollard. You mean Pollard.

Page is a good player.

You're whining about losing Hall and Mitchell?

ROFL




Seriously - you can't tell much about a player by giving him 5-10 snaps a game.

Instead of thinking of it as "Herm is replacing players before the backups have proven they can play," think of it as "Herm is replacing players that have already proven they CAN'T play.

Dante Hall was not a loss to this football team. Neither was Kawicka Mitchell. Neither will Greg Wesley be.

How exactly do you expect the younger players to earn their way and prove themselves other than playing?

He's right, though. Page did just that. He rotated in as a rookie and proved he was good enough to earn a starting job.

Then they turned around and just gave the starting job to Pollard last year after he barely saw the field on defense as a rookie. Not really fair to Wesley at all.

Politics.

Correct. Keeping these guys around does not induce progress, it invokes 8-8.
we needed to lose 12 games, and we needed to trim the roster. Done.
Except Glenn Dorsey as your consolation prize.

Poor Greg.

But guess what? We have a pretty good idea of what we have in Pollard.

Right now all we know is that he's a dynamite special teams player and a poor starting safety who doesn't make plays.

Who's been a starter for all of ONE season.

Jesus, you and micjones should go out for a beer.

You two could discuss the finer points of giving players time to develop before kicking them to the curb...

Read what I said. They should have to PLAY their way into a starting job not just get a job handed to them because they were drafted by Herm. Guys should be let go AFTER you've found a suitable replacement not before. People on this forum are too hung up on age and rebuilding. Players are playing a lot longer nowadays and with free agency it only takes 1 year to turn around. It's more about putting talent on the field not how old you are. That main thing the "getting younger" talk does is give the fans an excuse for sucking. In Herm's case, it's given him a good reason for getting rid of a lot of players whose only guilt was being smart enough to see through and question his incompetency. In other words, you don't let a guy go just because he's 29 or 30 especially when you don't have anybody behind him that's proven they can play. Casey Wiegmann will probably go to Denver and kick our ass for the next 5 years while we're still looking for a center.

And in support of goChiefs argument, for you folks who are arguing how bad ass pollard and page are...if they're so good why do you have to go out and spend another first day pick on a safety?

ROFL

First Hall and Mitchell, now WEIGMANN?

The guy who got tossed around like a ****ing rag doll last year?

You know, if we were letting GOOD players go and playing younger guys in their place, I'd see your point.

But we're not.

We're letting guys on the back-end of their careers go in favor of making PROGRESS.

It's not "an excuse to suck."

It's the way a championship team is built in the NFL.

Comedy ****ing GOLD.

I don't expect Pollard to be a pro bowler or even a GOOD player his first year.

I do expect a few rays of hope.

Nice concept, but it doesn't always work out that way.

What in the world are you talking about?

What player was let go because they questioned Herm's competency?

People say things like this because he's small but I imagine people saying this are parroting things they heard and not watching tape. Wiegmann is still a solid center. Watch what he does for Denver. The main problems with our offensive line last year were due to right tackle, predictability in the running game, and Huard holding onto the ball for an eternity.

Compare Dante Halls returns in '07 to Eddie Drummonds.

Kawika Mitchell was at least solid against the run. Nap Harris does nothing very well.

Damn.

Did Pollard **** Carrie Underwood or something?

He's a first year starter who made mistakes. Most do.

Doesn't help that he was playing between two of the slowest CB's in the league. I'd love to see coaches film of each game and see how many of those mistake were actually his fault, and how many got pinned on him because he was trying to help out a burned Law/Surtain.

(Not saying it happened, but would love a closer look)

For a guy who sucks off Jarrad Page as much as he does, you'd think he'd be a little lighter on a guy in Pollard who's either better or just as good.

I haven't seen a safety in the NFL in the last decade as invisible against the run as Page. Guy is a pure nickel safety with enough ability to pick off a horribly thrown pass every so often. (See every Raiders QB or that Matt Schaub duck.)

DaJuan Morgan was drafted (1) to play free safety, not strong safety; and (2) because he was the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE.

There is no way in hell Pollard is better than Page. They are light years apart in terms of development.

Page is THE reason we consistently stop Antonio Gates. He's outstanding in coverage, and last year he improved his tackling and starting hitting people.

Pollard has yet to put anything on his resume as a defensive player. He doesn't come close to Page.

He was drafted to play both safety positions. And the Chiefs already said he was no reflection on Page or Pollard, but if Pollard doesn't start making plays, Morgan will take his place.

You can't even keep the two separated in your mind, that's how similar they are.

Think he'll be good in Denver?

I'd ****ing hope so genius, considering they use a blocking scheme that emphasizes smaller linemen who can work in space.

He doesn't fit a smashmouth, power run game. Period.

Which games of Dante's should I use? The SEVEN games he played in last year?

You're right on one count: Harris does nothing very well.

And yet he was still just as productive as Mitchell was here in 2006.

Mitchell: 104 tackles, 1.5 sacks, 1 INT

Harris: 116 tackles, 1.5 sacks, 1 INT.

Aw shit. ROFL

I just don't think Pollard is capable of being a good player in a cover 2, he has a serious lack of speed and gets beat on deep help because of it...

Drafting a player like him in a cover 2 means he should well be a LB, or a S/LB tweener role player that plays both spots in certain spots but never really starts.

Page sucks. Pollard sucks. Page gets a couple fluke interceptions every so often, Pollard doesn't get run over every single snap.

Get a life. Or a girlfriend.

No, Morgan is a free safety.

Their take is worthless. What are they going to say, "We're not real happy with our FS production right now so let me introduce Mr. DaJuan Morgan."

Wait and see. Page sees the bench before Pollard. You can count on that like you can count on WPI hitting .150 on reporting Chiefs news.

I don't think playing the nickel in a cover 2 is the kind of demotion that people seem to think it is. Obviously it means Surtain wouldn't be starting, but it's not because he can't play or because other guys are better. A lot of times last year they'd bring in a 3rd CB and he'd take Surtain's spot while Surtain covered the slot receiver.

If they want him to be the nickel, it's because they know they can put him on a receiver as opposed to just playing a zone. If Surtain had lost a step and couldn't cover anyone anymore... like, say, Ty Law... they'd never play him at nickel. They'd keep him right where he is, like how they never moved Law around.

If anything, I think it may be easier for young guys to come in and be the starters. There was a scene in Hard Knocks last year where David Gibbs was raving about Brackenridge (I think) because he was playing nickel in a cover 2 as a rookie. If it's that hard a job, at least compared to the starters, putting Surtain there while the young guys start makes a lot of sense.

That is such garbage. The guy is a dynamo in coverage. He's the KEY to our defense when we play the Chargers. He SHUTS DOWN Gates. He's not about to see the bench.

Page has intercepted PEYTON MANNING now twice in his first two NFL seasons. He's the real deal.

Agree completely about his contribution in the passing game, but i think some are worried that he is a liability against the run. it's something he can approve on of course, but right now it is a concern.

My understanding is that, in the Cover 2, the safeties are, essentially, required to play a deep zone - support the corners deep and react to the run. Although we don't play a pure Cover 2 all the time, it would appear to me that, when we are in that base defense, the safeties have a darn tough job ... particularly when our backers aren't tackling and our d-line can't stop the run. On top of that, last years' corners weren't exactly shutting people down, were they?

Clearly, this defense needs to be built from the inside out. Only when we have linemen who can stand up against the run and corners who can close will we know what kind of safeties we have in the young guys. Otherwise, you're just asking too much from two positions. If Tank and Turk can come around and Dorsey is all he's made out to be, that's a start. Then, all we'd need are a head-cracking MLB and corners who can beat the old lady who swallowed a fly in the 40.

FAX

Excellent post, you make some good points. Surtain is a pretty savvy veteran, I just think he's lost a step recently. Putting him man-man on some slot receivers would make me nervous - think Wes Welker in week 1 - but Gunther is pretty good at covering up weaknesses.

Wes Welker is exactly why Surtain is going to the slot. He has the requisite quickness to cover a guy like Welker in the short-yardage area, Welker's speciality. He doesn't have the speed to run with Randy Moss anymore. You can't play Cover 2 on every down. At some point you have to man up.

Hope after a couple of seasons that they can play much better than our young Safeties have shown.

Improving the defense is great, but if he forgets about the offense who gives a crap. We have only one good wideout, an aging TE, are relying on only two dependable o-lineman of which one injured a knee at the end of the year. Why can't we ever get a coach that believes in playing both defense and offense?

Is Herm’s defense - full of his players, directed by his coaches,

I'm still not convinced Gun is Herm's choice. I still think Carl shoved him down his throat.

Oh, wait, I should rephrase that. Ah wtf.....:LOL:

how far do people read before they stop and head for the responses
I rarely get beyond 3-5 sentences

Gunt is an idiot.

He has this reputation as some kind of defensive genious(cps) to Chiefs fans because he had exceptional talent in his previous run as DC, and a good defensive mind to hold his hand in Marty.

I'm fairly certain that if Herman ****ing Edwards didn't want Gunt as his DC, he would have been given the green light to replace him by now, if Carl did shove him down his throat at the start.