Building a Strong Team - Your Priorities
 

If you were building a team from scratch and could invest 100 total points in the following areas, how would you invest those points?


Quarterback Ability/Talent
Running Back Ability/Talent
WRs/TE Ability/Talent
Offensive Line Ability/Talent
Kicker/Punter/Returner Ability/Talent
Kick Blocking/Coverage Ability/Talent
Defensive Line Ability/Talent
Linebackers Ability/Talent
Defensive Backs Ability/Talent
Salary Cap Management Ability/Talent
Scouting/Player Evaluation Ability/Talent
Position Coaching/Player Development Ability/Talent
Game Planning/Coordinator Ability/Talent


Here's mine:

Quarterback Ability/Talent - 12
Running Back Ability/Talent - 8
WRs/TE Ability/Talent - 6
Offensive Line Ability/Talent - 10
Kicker/Punter/Returner Ability/Talent - 5
Kick Blocking/Coverage Ability/Talent - 3
Defensive Line Ability/Talent - 11
Linebackers Ability/Talent - 5
Defensive Backs Ability/Talent - 8
Salary Cap Management Ability/Talent - 1
Scouting/Player Evaluation Ability/Talent - 8
Position Coaching/Player Development Ability/Talent - 5
Game Planning/Coordinator Ability/Talent - 18

Didnt you make a thread similiar to this last year??

Probably. I'm running out of material, and will soon have to leave for another board.

Quarterback Ability/Talent - 12
Running Back Ability/Talent - 8
WRs/TE Ability/Talent - 8
Offensive Line Ability/Talent - 10
Kicker/Punter/Returner Ability/Talent - 7
Kick Blocking/Coverage Ability/Talent - 5
Defensive Line Ability/Talent - 11
Linebackers Ability/Talent - 9
Defensive Backs Ability/Talent - 7
Salary Cap Management Ability/Talent - 1
Scouting/Player Evaluation Ability/Talent - 7
Position Coaching/Player Development Ability/Talent - 7
Game Planning/Coordinator Ability/Talent - 8

This is entirely dependent upon the scheme that you run.

For a Coryell scheme, pass blocking tackles and quarterback are the most important part of the offense. These require very high draft picks. For Hermball you need a large offensive line. Shanahan's O requires more mobile undersized o-lineman that aren't as valued on draft boards.

A cover 2 requires much higher picks on your D-Line and the middle of your D, MLB, Safeties. You can get by with mid-late round CBs, whereas in a man-pressing scheme you need 1st-2nd round corners.

At no point should you spend a high pick on a RB, IMO. They are a dime a dozen.

Excellent thread thing, Mr. Rain Man. Just excellent. Far better, I might add, than that spider island deal.

I took a stab at it and this is what's left - I'm running a variation on the West Coast Offense and the 3/4 ...

Quarterback Ability/Talent - 10
Running Back Ability/Talent - 8
WRs/TE Ability/Talent - 8
Offensive Line Ability/Talent - 14
Kicker/Punter/Returner Ability/Talent - 4
Kick Blocking/Coverage Ability/Talent - 3
Defensive Line Ability/Talent - 10
Linebackers Ability/Talent - 7
Defensive Backs Ability/Talent - 8
Salary Cap Management Ability/Talent - 1
Scouting/Player Evaluation Ability/Talent - 5
Position Coaching/Player Development Ability/Talent - 8
Game Planning/Coordinator Ability/Talent - 14

I think I used too many points, but our team cheats ... anyway, the way I look at it, cap management is pretty easy so I put more points in gameplanning and player development. I also spent more points on the oline.

FAX

Quarterback Ability/Talent - 0
Running Back Ability/Talent - 0
WRs/TE Ability/Talent - 0
Offensive Line Ability/Talent -0
Kicker/Punter/Returner Ability/Talent - 0
Kick Blocking/Coverage Ability/Talent -0
Defensive Line Ability/Talen - 0
Linebackers Ability/Talent - 0
Defensive Backs Ability/Talent - 0
Salary Cap Management Ability/Talent - 20
Scouting/Player Evaluation Ability/Talent - 30
Position Coaching/Player Development Ability/Talent - 25
Game Planning/Coordinator Ability/Talent - 25


I'll start at zero and build a dynasty for 30 years.

kinda what i was thinking .... the last 4 pretty much trump any temporary benefit you get from having a few good players to start with.

Rest = 0 (they will come from the bottom 4)
Salary Cap Management Ability/Talent - 10
Scouting/Player Evaluation Ability/Talent - 30
Position Coaching/Player Development Ability/Talent - 30
Game Planning/Coordinator Ability/Talent - 30

if you evaluation and develop your talent correctly you don't need so much Salary cap manipulation.

QB 100

Archie Manning
Early Jim Plunkett

Yea but see once you get that QB you can focus on other things.

No offense, Mr. cdcox (none whatsoever, actually), but my team is going to kick your team's ass for several years while your FO tries to get your guys under contract. I hope you don't get no injuries or nothin'.

FAX

I'd flip flop RB and WR, Rain Man.

I wonder how it really breaks out for pro team? It would be really interesting to compare the top 5 teams vs. the bottom 5 over the last 5 yrs.

Meh. The average coaching tenure in the NFL is 4.3 years. Most 'long' tenures are only 10-15 years. The longest I can think of was Don Shula's 25 years, but he never got past the 2nd round of the playoffs during his final 11 years. Even great coaching has its limitations and doesn't last forever. Many coaches who have success in one place also struggle to build from the ground up elsewhere.

Since you are in salary cap hell, I'll have your QB, OL and DL under contract in 2 years any way. BWAHAHAHAHAHA

yep .. but your team is a 1-shot wonder

as soon as you lose your current crop of players to free agency,injuries and retirement you will suck forever.

Cd and i on the other hand will be expansion teams for a few years and then we will start kicking you in the nuts every year.

Worked for the Saints and Pats. Oh, wait...

Uh explain that.....

This is too much work: QB highest, OL then DL.

Saints under Archie Manning were terrible, even though Manning was a great QB.

Pats drafted Plunkett #1. Definitely the first hyped QB I saw (I was in grade school). Think Elway or Manning in terms of hype. Never did anything with the Pats. They were terrible for years. Yet Plunkett was a good QB as evidenced by his late career.

there is no coaching salary cap ... i will keep my top guys paid at the top of the league.

That makes them an inept organization, much like the Dolphins were for years never getting Marino anything to work with.

So the average among the people who answered (normalized to 100) is this:

Quarterback: 21
Running Back: 4
WR/TE: 4
O-Line: 6
Kicking/Returning: 3
Kick Coverage: 2
D-Line: 5
Linebackers: 4
Defensive Backs: 4
Salary Cap Management: 6
Scouting/Player Evaluation: 13
Position Coaching/Player Development: 13
Game Planning/Coordinator Ability/Talent: 15

According to Planet Wisdom, coaching and management is 47 percent of a team's strength, offense is 35 percent, defense is 13 percent, and special teams is 5 percent. I'm not sure that coaching should be that high, though I agree that it's very important.

The most important things, according to this exercise, are quarterback, which is not a strength for KC right now, and game planning, which is an enormous weakness. I'm not convinced that our position coaching is up to par, either.

I was under the impression there would be no math involved...

O-line - 40 pts
WR's - 10 pts
QB - 15
D-line - 15 pts
Secondary - 15 pts
Rest - 5 pts

A top flight QB, stud OL and DL. Thats the ticket, trenches and a QB.

Already said by a few, and complete truth.

QB, OL, DL=success.

OL,DL, RB, QB

If you have the top tier O-line, RB is not much of a priority.IMO

The RB would take heat off the young QB which will free WR routes.

I hear ya, but I think a RBs success comes more from the O-line than his own abilities. I mean of course you want to have the best one you can get, but in this day, and age you can get a good RB a lot easier than you can get the other positions, which drops him on my list of priorities. Probowl lineman make probowl RBs not the other way around.

EDIT: you open a big hole, any RB can run through it. You protect the QB for 4 seconds anyone can get open.

Of course draft availability is always an issue(BPA), but if their is a Barry Sanders type of back that is the BPA you take him.

Without a doubt. I was seriously just about to say, unless the guy is a Barry Sanders type. Or an Adrian Peterson, but the chances of getting one of those guys is slim, but I agree completely.

RB's are way to much of a dime a dozen to really value them over anything.

Like Barry Sanders, Bo Jackson, Gale Sayers, yeah they are a dime a dozen. Plus RBs generally develop faster than QBs too

I agree except in the case of very special talents like the ones listed above.

Not to mention the fact that guys like those are almost always sure fire.

Yea I want Gale Sayers and his what 5 years?

What did Barry Sanders ever win for the Lions? Or Bo Jackson for the Raiders?

There are multiple more valuable positions, I wouldn't use a top 10 pick on a RB unless my team was close had some inexplicable bad luck the year before and it was really the only piece I didn't have....

Adrian Peterson may be great but the Vikings can't win shit right now.

I've always thought that a RB taken in the top 10 should be one ofthe final pieces in the building process. Maybe year 3 or 4 in. Yes their shelf life is short, but in the NFL, if you can't build your entire team in 5 yrs, chances are you failed in building your team.

BTW Dan Marino, and many other great QBs never won a SB. I think the lines are far, and away the most important parts of any good team, and they make winners out of QBs, RBs, or what have you.

Correct, IMO every position on Offense/Defense are important, because on weak link and everything falls apart. Hence my hard line BPA philosophy.

Definetly need a strong kicker, one that can make 60+ yard fg's

Difference being a top flight QB is likely to have a career that lasts more than twice as long as the RB's.

It's all about avaiablity too, If their's a dcent QB prospect who's an shaky top candidate, but if one has a badass Barry Sanders type stud in the same spot. Guess what, I'd take the badass RB.

Yeah, top-notch running backs are a dime a dozen.


Leading all-time rushers in NFL history

Emmitt Smith - 1st round pick
Walter Payton - 1st round pick
Barry Sanders - 1st round pick
Curtis Martin - 3rd round pick
Jerome Bettis - 1st round pick
Eric Dickerson - 1st round pick
Tony Dorsett - 1st round pick
Jim Brown - 1st round pick
Marshall Faulk - 1st round pick
Marcus Allen - 1st round pick
Franco Harris - 1st round pick
Thurman Thomas - 2nd round pick
John Riggins - 1st round pick
O.J. Simpson - 1st round pick
Ricky Watters - 2nd round pick
Eddie George - 1st round pick
Corey Dillon - 2nd round pick
O.J. Anderson - 1st round pick
Joe Perry - Undrafted
Earl Campbell - 1st round pick

I'm sorry, but if I get to choose between Glenn Dorsey and Matt Forte or Darren McFadden and Kentwan Balmer, I take the first two 108 times out of 100.

It's obvious to me that Rainman just doesn't understand what the draft is all about.

Why don't you take a look at some of the 3rd round QBs of the last several drafts. Comparatively, guys like Marion Barber, Brian Westbrook, and Frank Gore went in the third round. Michael Turner, Ryan Grant, were 5th and 7th rounders. Brandon Jacobs was a 4th rounder. Willie Parker and Earnest Graham were undrafted.

It's all about value and expendability. Running back is the easiest position to find a replacement for and it has the shortest shelf life. Spending a high pick on a running back is almost certain to help a fantasy team, but help your football team tread water.

Top Rushing Seasons by Team

18 of the 32 are 1st-round picks
4 are 2nd-round picks
3 are 3rd-round picks
3 are 4th-round picks
1 is a 5th-round pick
2 are 6th-round picks
1 is a 7th-round pick

The facts show that top-notch running backs cannot be had anywhere, and they're not a dime a dozen.


Arizona Cardinals Ottis Anderson 1,605 1979 - 1st round pick
Atlanta Falcons Jamal Anderson 1,846 1998 - 7th round pick
Baltimore Ravens Jamal Lewis 2,066 2003 - 1st round pick
Buffalo Bills O.J. Simpson 2,003 1973 - 1st round pick
Carolina Panthers Stephen Davis 1,444 2003 - 4th round pick
Chicago Bears Walter Payton 1,852 1977 - 1st round pick
Cincinnati Bengals Rudi Johnson 1,458 2005 - 4th round pick
Cleveland Browns Jim Brown 1,863 1963 - 1st round pick
Dallas Cowboys Emmitt Smith 1,773 1995 - 1st round pick
Denver Broncos Terrell Davis 2,008 1998 - 6th round pick
Detroit Lions Barry Sanders 2,053 1997 - 1st round pick
Green Bay Packers Ahman Green 1,883 2003 - 3rd round pick (Seahawks)
Houston Texans Domanick Davis 1,180 2004 - 4th round pick
Indianapolis Colts Edgerrin James 1,709 2000 - 1st round pick
Jacksonville Jaguars Fred Taylor 1,399 2000 - 1st round pick
Kansas City Chiefs Larry Johnson 1,789 2006 - 1st round pick
Miami Dolphins Ricky Williams 1,853 2002 - 1st round pick (Saints)
Minnesota Vikings Robert Smith 1,521 2000 - 1st round pick
New England Patriots Corey Dillon 1,635 2004 - 2nd round pick (Bengals)
New Orleans Saints George Rogers 1,674 1981 - 1st round pick (Saints)
New York Giants Tiki Barber 1,860 2005 - 2nd round pick
New York Jets Curtis Martin 1,697 2004 - 3rd round pick (Patriots)
Oakland Raiders Marcus Allen 1,759 1985 - 1st round pick
Philadelphia Eagles Wilbert Montgomery 1,512 1979 - 6th round pick
Pittsburgh Steelers Barry Foster 1,690 1992 - 5th round pick
St. Louis Rams Eric Dickerson 2,105 1984 - 1st round pick
San Diego Chargers LaDainian Tomlinson 1,815 2006 - 1st round pick
San Francisco 49ers Frank Gore 1,695 2006 - 3rd round pick
Seattle Seahawks Shaun Alexander 1,880 2005 - 1st round pick
Tampa Bay Buccaneers James Wilder 1,544 1984 - 2nd round pick
Tennessee Titans Earl Campbell 1,934 1980 - 1st round pick
Washington Redskins Clinton Portis 1,516 2005 - 2nd round pick (Broncos)

Well that's great I don't want to use a 1st round pick on a 5 year player and in some cases not even that.

I'll much rather go with my good RB in the middle rounds who makes no money.

This isn't that hard to grasp.

The difference between a 1st round running back and a 3rd rounder is often minimal. Maybe five hundreths of a second of their 40 time.

The difference between first round quarterbacks, defensive lineman, offensive tackles and cornerbacks and those to be had in the 3rd to fifth round...is vast.

Running backs who were Super Bowl MVPs. Yeah, you can win Super Bowls leaning on any ol' running back.

Terrell Davis - 6th round pick
Emmitt Smith - 1st round pick
Ottis Anderson - 1st round pick
Marcus Allen - 1st round pick
John Riggins - 1st round pick
Franco Harris - 1st round pick
Larry Csonka - 1st round pick

I like how alot of your examples are guys who were drafted in the 80s when things were alot different.

The RB position is literally the easiest position to fill right now.

You build your team around a QB and DE's not RB's and TE's.

Willie Parker: Undrafted
Brandon Jacobs: 4th Rounder
Brian Westbrook: 3rd rounder
Timmy Smith (holds the Super Bowl record): 5th rounder

This is so reeruned, I can't even believe I'm having this conversation. Please, by all means take Laurence Maroney or Joseph Addai over Peyton Manning because they were 1st round picks.

You know what's not mentioned?

OJ Simpson spent the best years of his career toiling for a terrible team because even he couldn't help them. Did he ever even win a playoff game?

Walter Payton only won a Super Bowl long after his prime as a runner was over.

Do you think it's a coincidence that the players with the two highest draft grades in the last two classes, Peterson and McFadden, didn't go #1 overall? Or perhaps, it's because teams realize that talent at positions aside from running back is much harder to find, and you aren't going to pick up pro bowl D-Tackles in the third round but once every five-ten years.

Funny enough, Gore, Barber, Westbrook are all pro bowl running backs...all third rounders.

Never ever down grade a position if one has a chance to pick a great player either side of the ball with a top pick you take that player BPA

FYI, I would take Barry Sanders over Peyton Manning or Tom Brady any day of the week

That is true except for running back. It's a completely different animal. McFadden and Peterson had the highest grades, and several teams passed on both, and it was the right decision.

Running back is the easiest position on the field to play and it's one that is the most easily replaced. There's a reason why every year Ryan Grants and Earnest Grahams explode out of nowhere and are great RBs...the tools required to be one are far more available than for any other position.

My team>your team

I'm one of the biggest Barry Sanders fans alive, and that is the most reeruned thing I've ever heard in my life.

ROFL, do you remember RBBC?

Well good for you, you wouldn't pick the most impactful running back in the past 20 years.

You mean the thing that over half the teams in the NFL are doing right now?

We didn't win because Marty was unable to find a running back. We had an all-pro running back in Okoye and didn't do shit with him. We had more success with a broke dick Marcus Allen, no wide receivers and Joe Montana than we ever did with Larry Johnson and Tony Gonzalez, who is the most physically talented running back we've ever had, and TG is the best TE in NFL history.

That RB sure made the Lions champions.

Over 2 of the best 10 quarterbacks to ever play the game who coincidentally have won 4 Super Bowls while Barry's teams made it to one NFC Ch. game?

***** no.

All of those guys had first-round pick QBs that led their teams. No one's arguing that a high-round quarterback can lead a team to a Super Bowl with a running back of moderate skills.

I don't remember Timmy Smith's QB - Rypien or Williams? I never figured out why the Redskins were so dominant.

Again, no one's saying that a franchise quarterback isn't more valuable than a franchise running back. The argument is whether 1st-round running backs are a waste of time. They aren't.

Dan Marino. Jim Plunkett. Archie Manning. Donovan McNabb. And so on.

He won a Super Bowl.

Based on your argument, why didn't they go in the 5th round?

No one's arguing that good running backs can't come from later rounds. The odds are way better that you'll get a franchise back in the first round.

It's almost like the knowledge of the posters on this board has mirrored the ability of the football team.

Take the RB and not the QB, you can be this years Vikings.

Look at the organizations too,and what they had around them. The Colts and Patriots have all the pieces in place look at what the Lions had nothing Barry did that shit all by himself. Hell when Brady stepped in when Bledsoe was injuredthey were already SB contenders to begin with.

Example, want Larry Johnson or Troy Polamalu, I think that Polamalu is the easy call there.

Yea Herman Moore what a scrub that guy was.

Then why weren't McFadden and Peterson selected in the fifth round?

who else?

Brett Perriman and Johnny Morton? ROFL

You have to be kidding me. A safety over a running back?

While you're spending that first round pick on a RB who has a grade of 98 and I'm picking behind you and there's a QB with a grade of 96, I'll gladly allow for you to take the BPA.

It's not that a franchise QB is worth more than a franchise RB. It's that impact DE's, DT's, corners, safeties, and tackles are ALL worth more than a franchise running back.

Jim Plunkett won a Super Bowl. Marino and McNabb carried their teams to Super Bowls.

It's quite simple: you win with good play on the lines and from the quarterback position. It's a passing league, and your ideas are outdated, much like Herm's.

You can't shut down a great QB unless you have a great pass rush.

You can't shut down a great DE unless you have a great tackle.

You can't shut down a great DT unless you double team him, and then he opens things up for every other member of the line.

You can't shut down a great CB...he shuts off half the field.

All you have to do to shut down a great RB is put 8 or 9 guys in the box.

Ultimately, you win with playmakers. Playmakers from every other position come in the early rounds. You can find playmaking RBs in the later rounds.

Furthermore, it is a position with the shortest lifespan of any in the NFL.

Troy Polamalu is still an all pro and will be for many more years while LJ is nothing more than a shell of his former self.

I too would take a 96 QB over a 98 RB. QB is a huge position.

I would take a 96 RB over a 98 player at any other position except maybe LT and possibly even RDE.

USC

The Patriots had offenses and defenses ranked around 20th in the league in 2001.

Brady had the following supporting cast:

Antowain Smith
Troy Brown
Jermaine Wiggins
David Patten

That is pathetic.

When Brady stepped in the Patriots were 0-2 and coming off a 5-11 year that had them picking in the top 10 of the draft.

I could not disagree more.

That's one thing we can agree on. Running backs who aren't in the uppermost tier tend to have shorter careers. However, the uppermost tier guys will tend to play a decade, and ten years of a top running back trumps 12 years of a top safety in my book.

Has nothing to do with SC, it has to do that is the player we traded out of the spot for when we took LJ...